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I was under the impression we were not going to list the entire victim list. Did I miss a change in consensus on that? Talk:Comair_Flight_5191/Archive_2 put forth the concept that notability was required to list names. Most other crash articles do not provide the entire passenger manifest. I'd revert it, but I don't want to end up on someone else's enemies list. So... I'm asking for additional comments. Dual Freq 23:48, 9 September 2006 (UTC)
In various types of disaster Wikipedia generally does not list the victims unless otherwise notable. An exception might be, as in the Columbine High School shootings, when the deaths occurred over a considerable time span and each death or injury was part of the narrative sequence of the story. Likewise for the 41 victims in the Donner Party timeline or the 29 dead in Uruguayan Air Force Flight 571. Edison 05:30, 10 September 2006 (UTC)
Apparently Paul venter has no interest in participating in this discussion and has continually re-added the victim list. I have no desire for an edit/revert war, and will let the rest of you sort this out. Peyna 13:48, 10 September 2006 (UTC)
An edit was made that says "Clay called for rotation,[6] and the aircraft sped off the end of the runway." In the foot noted article attributed to the Lexington Herald is written Did the pilots realize at some point they were on the wrong runway and decide to go for takeoff, perhaps because they were past the point of safely aborting? Or did Clay call for rotation because the plane had reached the designated speed, and the pilots didn't realize they were in the wrong place until they ran off the runway? (next paragraph) Debbie Hersman, a member of the National Transportation Safety Board, said last week she couldn't answer that.. Did NTSB release a tape or statement saying Clay did call for rotation or has the article incorporated a speculation by the newspaper? It seems to me a different reference ought to be used. If there is not a better reference it will be edited. Mfields1 11:13, 10 September 2006 (UTC)
IIRC someone found a correlation between people with slow reaction times having accidents where the front of their car was damaged, and people with quick reaction time have damage to the backs of their cars. But 2 seconds is unbelievably slow for, say, a driver to react to a deer running in front of the car by braking or steering. Simple reaction time could be 100 msec or longer, and choice Rt could be 300 msec or longer. Fatigue, distraction, or other impairing factors increase reaction time. Edison 19:16, 10 September 2006 (UTC)
I’m seeing that this (“Crash”) section of the article is (largely? exactly?) a copy of the accident summary here: [1]. Is this OK copyrightwise?
If yes, it’s OK, I’d favor presenting the material as a block quote attributed in-line. — Preceding unsigned comment added by SquisherDa ( talk • contribs) 07:26, 20 December 2018 (UTC)
For anyone not following everything, I've nominated the page Comair 5191 Passenger and Crew List for deletion ( discussion here). This page is sometimes linked to from the page; User:Paul venter removes the link and inserts the full manifest directly into the article. As the nominator, I feel that the page should be deleted, because the information isn't needed, either on a separate page or in this article, and so I hope that the result of the discussion for that page can be applied here. If the result is to keep, I suggest keeping the separate page and linking to it; if the result is to delete, I suggest not including the full manifest here, for the same reasons currently being cited on the deletion discussion page. — LrdChaos 21:26, 10 September 2006 (UTC)
NOTE: If you are looking to weigh in on keeping or deleting Comair 5191 Passenger and Crew List, this is not the place for that; you want to reply at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Comair 5191 Passenger and Crew List. If that's not what you meant to object to, then I'm not sure what it is that you're objecting to, as my original comment offered two suggestions, one each from the likely outcomes (keep or delete) for the separate page. From the comments, it appears as though you would support keeping a separate page; if that's the case, please consider voting at the appropriate spot, and reconsider the work "oppose", because it appears that you're actually saying the same thing that I did ("If the result [of the AFD] is to keep, I suggest keeping the separate page and linking to it", not including the content of the page in this main article). — LrdChaos ( talk) 19:56, 11 September 2006 (UTC)
Article should be moved to Crash of Comair Flight 5191 2006 August 27 ... any objection? That would leave the Comair Flight 5191 article for all the flights that did not crash. User:Pedant 17:06, 11 September 2006 (UTC)
OK, so where does the article about the scheduled airline trip go? All the Comair Flight 5191 trips that didn't crash? Comair Flights 5191 which actually flew? Where do you suggest? And knock off the cracks about my name! I mean it, no personal attacks, is no personal attacks. User:Pedant 15:14, 13 September 2006 (UTC)
I have been invited [2] to informally mediate on this page. This may well not be a good idea; you might find you prefer King log. I have no idea what this dispute is about; I have no preconceptions as to what it should contain; I have no experience of mediation. But if the edit warring continues I'm just as likely to protect the page :-). So... anyone in favour? Against? William M. Connolley 21:15, 11 September 2006 (UTC)
I feel that my mediation so far has been a great success :-). Do please continue... William M. Connolley 22:34, 13 September 2006 (UTC)
I noticed that Peyna pared the victims section down a bit more, and while I generally agree that we're headed in the right direction with that, I think we should probably leave a couple things in. Polehinke is already named in the article as the first officer; I don't see any reason why we should not continue to refer to him by name, especially since he had a direct role in the crash itself. It also seems reasonable to me to name the police officers who polled Polehinke from the wreckage, as they played a direct and unique role in the immediate aftermath. The language of this section also seemed much less awkward in the previous revision. I recognize that we have to draw a line somewhere, but I think an argument could be made for the officers' actions being notable enough to warrant the inclusion of their names. However, as I write this, I find myself referring to them as "the officers"... hmmm. VxSote 04:20, 12 September 2006 (UTC)
I saw a report in a local Ky mewspaper (not online) that the victims were burned beyond recognition. Numerous county coroners were called in and worked for days on identification; one coroner apparently removed the remains of his relatives from the plane, and did not recognize them, although he was watching for them. Is this assumed in a plane crash and so not to be mentioned in the article? There was also an accuount in a newspaper that the first responders saw people moving in the wreckage, discounting the "killed instantly by the crash" account. Again, mentionable or not? Edison 16:14, 12 September 2006 (UTC)
I still don't understand why any of the victims' names are being removed. This article is only about the crash of a commercial airliner. If there were not passengers it would not be notable. Every one of the passengers and crew killed in this incident are notable because without them the crash is not notable. I also object to the use of victim over the use of casualtiy as victim has connotations of blame. User:Pedant 15:20, 13 September 2006 (UTC)
It seems that both of these words are actually troublesome for the same reason. "Victim" implies there is a corresponding action on the part of another. "Casualty" implies that it was an unavoidable accident that just happened, with no identifiable cause. I think there is a stronger argument to be made in regards to using "victim," because there are known causes: the runway was too short, the plane was not going fast enough under the conditions to take off, etc. Peyna 18:36, 13 September 2006 (UTC)
Perhaps the section regarding "victims" could be incorporated into the crash section, and then we create a new section on "survivor". Peyna 19:01, 13 September 2006 (UTC)
Just for comparison: NTSB Aircraft Accident Reports usually have an "Injuries to Persons" section where there is further distinguished between "fatal", "serious", "minor", "none". "Casualties" are often called "fatalities". Gerd Badur 19:22, 13 September 2006 (UTC)
I think the revised format is much more encylopedic. In time, the mention of the memorial service may need to be removed as it is dated. Mfields1 20:36, 13 September 2006 (UTC)
Whenever I make a major edit to a controversial article, I always pre-emptively justify it on the talk page. I added to the "Aftermath" section an article about Comair's announcement that the pilots were using outdated charts, and that they had issued a warning for their pilots to exercise "extreme caution" during the taxi to the runway. I think this is significant only because of the announcement, i.e. if it were just that they had outdated charts I would not have included it -- but the "extreme caution" proclamation I think makes it a notable part of the aftermath.
(On a side note, my personal pov on this accident is that the outdated charts are an incredibly minor contributor at best -- part of the takeoff checklist is to confirm your compass matches the runway heading, and fifty bucks says that will be cited as the primary cause in the NTSB's report) -- Jaysweet 20:50, 13 September 2006 (UTC)
Since that NOTAM should still be in effect, can anyone verify the airport spokesman's claims a little more authoritatively? Right now, it seems like it's sort of the airport's word against Comair's to the casual reader, and that's fairly unlikely to be the case. Either the NOTAM was issued, or it wasn't, and if it was indeed issued, it doesn't matter if the pilots were using outdated charts, as they should have received and understood the contents of the NOTAM and its effects on their intended taxi routing. (Again, I think the taxi route change is very tangential at best, but I like what we've got in there right now.)-- chris. lawson 03:49, 14 September 2006 (UTC)
It is indeed Comair Flight 5191, not 191. Comair uses four numbers for each of their flight numbers, not three. 160.39.91.72 ( talk) 14:08, 27 August 2008 (UTC)
For those interested, NTSB published a press release today: NTSB press release September 25, 2006 Gerd Badur 18:19, 25 September 2006 (UTC)
The article says "The aircraft impacted the ground about 1000 feet (305 m) from the end of the runway,[8]" while the press release says "The main wreckage was located approximately 1,800 feet from the end of the runway." Who is right? Or did it "impact" at 1000 feet and skid to 1800 feet? Edison 19:12, 25 September 2006 (UTC)
All taxiways named "Alpha", is that really unusual, and looking at the chart it is not true. They have A, C, D, E and F. Are they not also numbered A-1 to A-7? Any opinions on the recent addition? FAA NACO diagram, shows taxiway names in case anyone has forgotten. Do we need to add the labels to the image on the page? -- Dual Freq 22:44, 27 September 2006 (UTC)
I've seen much more complicated runway configurations and diagrams, so no, I'm not especially confused. This seems like a pilot error situation, but I'd be willing to back off that belief if there was no edge lighting on either runway and all runway signage was also not illuminated or they were giving inaccurate taxi instructions by ATC. Otherwise, I have a hard time understanding how they could get lost on such a small airfield. As for the "unreasonable risk" stated in the article, I don't see the risk any more unreasonable than any other airport. -- Dual Freq 23:58, 27 September 2006 (UTC)
This article will be put on hold (for 7 days) until these minor adjustments can be made :
Additional comments :
Lincher 02:41, 12 October 2006 (UTC)
The required lead modification has taken place and the article now fulfills all the requirements for it to be of GA status. Lincher 18:19, 12 October 2006 (UTC)
I'd like someone to show a reference to the changed staffing policy. Include a URL or a link to an article, etc. FAA ended it's nap policy after the crash, and a Nov 2005 policy required tower operations and radar approach operations to be handled by separate controllers. I'm not saying that two controllers had any bearing on the crash but now the lead paragraph in the article attempts to implicate responsibility for the crash on tower personell, and that a decision has been made as a result of the crach, to staff the tower with two controllers. Mfields1 22:46, 12 October 2006 (UTC)
Yes this is the point, the policy before was that the functions be separated, was it not? How the work got accomplished is (in same tower or at different locations) is a different matter. In the CNN article linked above the only direct quotes come from Andrew Cantwell, regional vice president of the controller's union. He is not setting FAA policy, that would be someone in management. Mfields1 09:46, 13 October 2006 (UTC)
"However, Republican Rep. Robin Hayes of North Carolina – a pilot – stressed the lone controller at Lexington was not responsible for the crash, and indeed it isn’t necessary to have two controllers in an airport tower for aviation to be safe." from Hearing Defends FAA’s Controller Staffing, Praises Safety Record, September 21, 2006. The staffing concern appears to me to be a rapid, knee-jerk reaction to an accident. Had the FAA done nothing it would have been blasted. After the heat is off, that tower will end up back to 1 controller along with all the other ones. I've said it before, there are towers with ZERO controllers in them at 5 am and airline pilots manage to take off on the correct runway at those airports. -- Dual Freq 23:43, 12 October 2006 (UTC)
An internal FAA news site, found via google, clarifies media reports on staffing saying,
Where is this policy CNN is talking about? Also, this was released August 30, 2006 as a rebuttal to the media coverage about "violating own policy". Probably not published by CNN as it didn't fit the image they wanted to portray of negligence. -- Dual Freq 00:14, 13 October 2006 (UTC)
I'll boldly rush in where angels fear to tread & give my two cents. The source material I've reviewed appears to support that the staffing policy (separation of radar & tower functions) remained unchanged, but the procedure used to implement that policy (handing off radar control to Indianapolis Center vs. having a second controller available locally) was altered.
In analysis, it's important to consider that single staffing entails inherent risks, regardless of the job. An individual, on his own, develops bad habits, habits that become reinforced because "nothing's gone wrong before." This is one of the cited reasons for the requirement that all large aircraft operating under FAR Part 121 scheduled air service have a minimum flight crew of two and that railroad locomotives be crewed by two people. The presence of others can increase alertness and reduce fatigue, and has been shown to improve regulatory & procedural compliance. In this case, a second controller (in the tower cab -- IIRC, Blue Grass airport doesn't have a separate radar room) would have lightened the administrative burden, and, conceivably, freed up the tower controller to observe & monitor takeoffs & landings. Tower controllers are trained to spot issues with departing or arriving aircraft, such as leaks, blown tires, or structural anomalies.
This accident appears to have been the direct result of pilot error in runway selection, but the failure of air traffic control to detect the error would be a contributing factor, along with the flight crew's failure to check that their heading was correct for the runway they were using, and errors of omission or commission on the part of the airport operator in staffing the tower or marking the runways. For that matter, it's an arguable point that the aircraft's onboard AHRS was flawed in its design that it failed to alert the crew when takeoff power was applied. In the end, though, it all comes back to FAR 91.3, which mandates the pilot in command's ultimate authority & responsibility for the safe conduct of the flight. Since human error is unlikely to be eradicated, studying & reporting on the factors that contributed to the error is the best approach we have to improve aviation safety. -- Ssbohio 02:05, 10 December 2006 (UTC)
According to the article "Human Factors Issues Key in Comair Flight 5191 Probe" in Aviation Week & Space Technology, dated 09/04/2006, the closed taxiway between runways 22 and 26 is the one indicated by the article here as "desired", and the taxiway the crew should have taken is the one indicated by the article here as "closed". Enduser 19:49, 13 October 2006 (UTC)
I wanted to add that I can more readily see how the accident might have occurred if the Aviation Week & Space Technology diagram is correct. Both crew members had been to this airfield several times, and were used to taking a "left" turn with respect to barriers ahead. With the taxiway they were used to taking now being closed, the "left" turn they were used to taking put them directly on runway 26. Enduser 20:01, 13 October 2006 (UTC)
The NTSB has just made a release stating that it will open a public docket into the accident in January 2007, and expects to close the investigation shortly after. I will add this to the article tomorrow, I have just run out of time today. Blood red sandman 19:04, 11 November 2006 (UTC)
This New York Times article says, in part:
Maybe it's just my mind playing tricks on me, but it sure sounds like they're implying "rotate" was said a whole lot earlier than 138 knots. Can anyone else find a source that's a bit more explicit about this? The AP has wire stories all over the place now but they don't seem to be saying much about this bit. What would really be useful would be the NTSB actually putting this stuff on their site, but if it's there, I can't find it.-- chris. lawson 05:13, 18 January 2007 (UTC)
I received a very kind E-mail via the foundation from someone who has strong ties to one of the crew members of this flight. She kindly explained to me that there was misinformation in the aftermath section, which I have now corrected; please see this new source. Be careful in your wording of this article, as many people, including loved ones of those who were lost in this tragedy, are reading this article. — Pilot guy cleared for takeoff 17:06, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
Flight 5191 would have filed its flight plan as COM191, not as DAL5191. Thus, I'm removing the DAL5191 designation from the article. The reservations reference to DL5191 is correct, because Comair does not book its own Delta Connection flights.
For an example of how this works, check out these examples from FlightAware. Try tracking flight DAL5190. Next, try tracking COM190. This concept will also work for Flight 5191 as long as COM191 remains in the FlightAware database (it's there as of today). Yayro 17:16, 9 April 2007 (UTC)
A long time ago when most of this article was written, there was dialogue about why the pilots would use the wrong runway. There is an article written in the Lexington Herald that seems to show new information about the status of the runway lights on that day and a few days before: http://www.kentucky.com/211/story/42385.html Mfields1 01:15, 15 April 2007 (UTC)
It is indeed Comair Flight 5191, not 191. Comair uses four numbers for each of their flight numbers, not three.
160.39.91.72 (
talk) 14:05, 27 August 2008 (UTC)
There is some disagreement over the location of the crash. Both the article and Blue Grass Airport are clear that the airport is outside Lexington city limits, so the info box should say Fayette County, Kentucky, not Lexington. The first paragraph naturally should and does make it clear that we're talking about the Lexington, Kentucky airport here.-- Prosfilaes 18:36, 31 July 2007 (UTC)
That is what they mean by unincorporated. Fayette and Lexington merged in the 50's I believe. They did the same thing that Louisville Jefferson County did just recently. This is the adress for the airport, 4000 Terminal Drive, Suite 206 • Lexington, KY 40510-9607. This is why I said the next time this gets changed it will be cited as vandalism. People have continually been changing it to Fayette County with disregard to the actual location of the airport. All anyone has to do to verify this is to go to the airport webpage at www.bluegrassairport.com or look up Lexington, KY and Fayette County, KY on wikipedia. Not trying to be a butt just getting tired of reverting this thing after clearly explaining the revert. User:Bluecord
I signed in with the full intention of editing the location of this article, but given the comments here thought I would seek discussion before doing so. Some are relying on the wiki article on Bluegrass Airport as support for leaving the reference to unincorporated Fayette County.
I submit that that article should be edited as well. There simply is no such thing as unincorporated Fayette County. Unincorporated means not part of a city. All of Fayette County was incorporated into Lexington when the voters approved a merger in 1973. As a local, I can assure you that Bluegrass Aiport is factually in Lexington, KY.
As someone mentioned, this is similar to the Louisville merger. Every part of Jefferson County that was not part of another city in Jefferson County (called unincorporated) was merged with, or incorporated into Louisville Metro. There are no longer unincorporated parts of Jefferson County.
This is a different concept from what many are used to, but the county and city are the same thing here. I would propose editing to read "...from Bluegrass Airport in Lexington-Fayette County, Kentucky, west of downtown."
The hyphenated use is consistent with the legal name "Lexington-Fayette Urban County Government" and local usage. See the about Lexington section on the web page of the Lexington Convention and Visitors Bureau. I'd appreciate feed back. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Lexeagle ( talk • contribs) 20:26, 1 November 2007 (UTC)
For the reasons stated above, I have changed to read "from Blue Grass Airport in Fayette County, Kentucky, four miles (6 km) west of the central business district of the City of Lexington." This is factually accurate, and merely deletes the reference to unincorporated and gives more detail about location. This seems to be best solution given all the back and forth.-- Lexeagle 20:09, 5 November 2007 (UTC)
The boxed area on the article page says that the cause of the crash is "crash on take-off". This is not the cause of the crash, but the result. The cause has been established by the NTSB. Primary cause was pilot error. Contributing factor was an understaffed tower. Perhaps this should be amended.
consider eliminating the chart of nationalities. This can be summarized by text. Also consider less of a diary style of writing (on September 12, ..... on September 14, .....). Overall, an article that others have put a lot of work into and it shows! Archtransit 00:06, 4 December 2007 (UTC)
Can someone please provide some references for the designation "Comair Flight 191".
In fact, not a single one of the references used in the article uses the designation "Comair Flight 191" (or "Delta 5191"). (A few of the aviation rumour sites use "Comair Flight 191", but even there it is quickly corrected to "Comair Flight 5191"; not that these are sites we can reliably quote from anyway). At present, use of "Comair Flight 191" in this article constitutes orginal research. 82.1.63.238 ( talk) 06:39, 3 September 2008 (UTC)
In the absence of any references to the contrary, I must reluctantly conclude that use of "Comair 191" in this article must be discontinued. 82.1.63.238 ( talk) 14:17, 11 September 2008 (UTC)
See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Comair_Flight_5191/Archive_1 where this was discussed and a consensus of more than 1 decided on Comair 191. -- Dual Freq ( talk) 22:01, 17 September 2008 (UTC)
All communications with ATC on the crash transcript use the call sign "Comair 191. In every transmission both the Control Tower, and the Pilots use "Comair 191." The 5 is only for Delta airlines ticket code sharing. The extra digit only indicates that depsite the flight being ticketed as Delta, the actual flight is being operated by a code sharing carrier. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Kyle kursk ( talk • contribs) 22:35, 14 March 2021 (UTC)
I'm making a guess here that your recent edit here, and likely the creation of your account, was personally motivated. If so, I'm very sorry for what you've had to go through. No one should have to be subjected to that. That said, no offense was intended in the reversion. There were multiple, rather serious problems with the edit you made; it's nothing personal, and says nothing about your intent and does NOT mean that the content you added could not be included at some point. It just needs to be done properly when it is, and there are literally thousands of people here willing to help you do just that, I'm sure. I can only do so much myself, I've been editing anonymously on Wikipedia for several years, but only occasionally and I'm not exactly an expert on policies and procedures.
the key thing though, is that this actually IS an encyclopedia. While I'm sure you feel very strongly about this, personal comments don't really belong in the article itself. Here on the talk page, sure fine, whatever. The article however, has to conform to a number of guidelines regarding tone and sources of information. A few big ones to start with would be WP:NPOV WP:CITE and WP:OR. Others that know more can help point you to others I suspect, I'm pretty limited in my policy knowledge to tell the truth. Regardless, you may honestly believe what you said in the article is true, but unless there's a reliable, published source stating as much, it cannot be included. I understand that you likely feel very strongly about this, but unfortunately your personal testimony would qualify as Original Research at best, and thus would not be allowed.
If Michael Ryan was included as an American Casualty in the statistics, it is likely to be because the sources used in compiling it listed him as such. As we all know though, no source is infallible, this is why multiple sources are preferred if possible. If a source supporting what you said is found, it will greatly aid in getting the information into the article. In fact, it's likely that someone else might actually change it before you had the chance, in such a case! I tried checking the most likely source, one of the articles that had profiles of all the passengers, but unfortunately the original is down and the archived version did not have Michael's profile included in the archive.
Finally, and someone else will have to explain this because I don't know how the code works myself, your addition to the statistics box, perfectly fine if backed up by sources, didn't work right, for reasons I'm not sure of myself as I don't know how the bloody thing works either. It did pretty badly mess up the box though, which was actually the main reason I just reverted it rather than trying to edit it down. I can't help too much with this one...as I simply don't know how. Sorry.
Here's hoping this is worked out in the end in a way that satisfies everyone. It'll be a damned shame if it's not, and I simply don't know enough to do it myself, or I would. -Graptor 208.102.243.30 ( talk) 00:46, 9 September 2009 (UTC)
This statement is totally irrelevant, and I suggest that it be removed:
This is the third accident involving a flight 191 in the U.S. The others were American Airlines and Delta Airlines flight 191. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Gentleman wiki ( talk • contribs) 04:32, 24 August 2010 (UTC)
Just a passive reader but I agree with the delete suggestion. Saying this is the third accident of a flight using this number on three differnt airlines addes nothing to the article. Also, the referance to Singapore Airlines making a wrong turn adds nothing to the article. The first two items that shaw a pattern of errors AT THIS AIRPORT is spot on. Just HMO. Kansas Bike Guy ( talk) 18:28, 27 August 2010 (UTC)
Around halfway down the article I read "NTSB released its final report into the accident, citing this "non-pertinent conversation" as a contributing factor in the accident."
Ok, that sounds reasonable, the flight crew distracted each other by talking about something non-pertinent. But "this"? There is no mention of the conversation anywhere in the article (maybe there once was). The sentence should be reworded, or mention of the conversation put back in the article. Maproom ( talk) 22:32, 27 August 2010 (UTC)
I am adding a small section about the Flight 5191 Memorial which was dedicated on the fifth anniversary of the crash. I serve on the Flight 5191 Memorial Commission and had a family member on the flight. Serpentor74 ( talk) 17:04, 15 August 2012 (UTC)Serpentor74
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Which sources are deemed unreliable in this article? I'm no seeing any that ring alarm bells. I propose that the tag is removed. Mjroots ( talk) 11:50, 4 August 2017 (UTC)
I was immediately puzzled by the survivor's attorney claiming contributory negligence as a defence. Contributory negligence is a very specific and almost completely abandoned doctrine in tort law. Only 5 states still adhere to contributory negligence, and Kentucky isn't one of them. So I went to look at the references to the suit, only to find that the two I sought were both dead links. The references are part of a template, and I can't figure out how to delete these dead links. Toyokuni3 ( talk) 07:29, 25 February 2019 (UTC)
What was the deal with the runways. Not just this plane had a problem with runway 22 and runway 26 Quoting from article: "In 1993, a commercial jet at Blue Grass Airport was cleared for takeoff on Runway 22, but mistakenly took Runway 26 instead. Tower personnel noticed the mistake and canceled the aircraft's takeoff clearance just as the crew realized their error. The aircraft subsequently departed safely from Runway 22. An identical occurrence took place in January 2007 when a Learjet lined up on Runway 26, but again the error was noticed and corrected before the flight took off." Did this airport not have good maps or runway labeling? Bucky winter soldier ( talk) 13:44, 6 October 2023 (UTC)
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I was under the impression we were not going to list the entire victim list. Did I miss a change in consensus on that? Talk:Comair_Flight_5191/Archive_2 put forth the concept that notability was required to list names. Most other crash articles do not provide the entire passenger manifest. I'd revert it, but I don't want to end up on someone else's enemies list. So... I'm asking for additional comments. Dual Freq 23:48, 9 September 2006 (UTC)
In various types of disaster Wikipedia generally does not list the victims unless otherwise notable. An exception might be, as in the Columbine High School shootings, when the deaths occurred over a considerable time span and each death or injury was part of the narrative sequence of the story. Likewise for the 41 victims in the Donner Party timeline or the 29 dead in Uruguayan Air Force Flight 571. Edison 05:30, 10 September 2006 (UTC)
Apparently Paul venter has no interest in participating in this discussion and has continually re-added the victim list. I have no desire for an edit/revert war, and will let the rest of you sort this out. Peyna 13:48, 10 September 2006 (UTC)
An edit was made that says "Clay called for rotation,[6] and the aircraft sped off the end of the runway." In the foot noted article attributed to the Lexington Herald is written Did the pilots realize at some point they were on the wrong runway and decide to go for takeoff, perhaps because they were past the point of safely aborting? Or did Clay call for rotation because the plane had reached the designated speed, and the pilots didn't realize they were in the wrong place until they ran off the runway? (next paragraph) Debbie Hersman, a member of the National Transportation Safety Board, said last week she couldn't answer that.. Did NTSB release a tape or statement saying Clay did call for rotation or has the article incorporated a speculation by the newspaper? It seems to me a different reference ought to be used. If there is not a better reference it will be edited. Mfields1 11:13, 10 September 2006 (UTC)
IIRC someone found a correlation between people with slow reaction times having accidents where the front of their car was damaged, and people with quick reaction time have damage to the backs of their cars. But 2 seconds is unbelievably slow for, say, a driver to react to a deer running in front of the car by braking or steering. Simple reaction time could be 100 msec or longer, and choice Rt could be 300 msec or longer. Fatigue, distraction, or other impairing factors increase reaction time. Edison 19:16, 10 September 2006 (UTC)
I’m seeing that this (“Crash”) section of the article is (largely? exactly?) a copy of the accident summary here: [1]. Is this OK copyrightwise?
If yes, it’s OK, I’d favor presenting the material as a block quote attributed in-line. — Preceding unsigned comment added by SquisherDa ( talk • contribs) 07:26, 20 December 2018 (UTC)
For anyone not following everything, I've nominated the page Comair 5191 Passenger and Crew List for deletion ( discussion here). This page is sometimes linked to from the page; User:Paul venter removes the link and inserts the full manifest directly into the article. As the nominator, I feel that the page should be deleted, because the information isn't needed, either on a separate page or in this article, and so I hope that the result of the discussion for that page can be applied here. If the result is to keep, I suggest keeping the separate page and linking to it; if the result is to delete, I suggest not including the full manifest here, for the same reasons currently being cited on the deletion discussion page. — LrdChaos 21:26, 10 September 2006 (UTC)
NOTE: If you are looking to weigh in on keeping or deleting Comair 5191 Passenger and Crew List, this is not the place for that; you want to reply at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Comair 5191 Passenger and Crew List. If that's not what you meant to object to, then I'm not sure what it is that you're objecting to, as my original comment offered two suggestions, one each from the likely outcomes (keep or delete) for the separate page. From the comments, it appears as though you would support keeping a separate page; if that's the case, please consider voting at the appropriate spot, and reconsider the work "oppose", because it appears that you're actually saying the same thing that I did ("If the result [of the AFD] is to keep, I suggest keeping the separate page and linking to it", not including the content of the page in this main article). — LrdChaos ( talk) 19:56, 11 September 2006 (UTC)
Article should be moved to Crash of Comair Flight 5191 2006 August 27 ... any objection? That would leave the Comair Flight 5191 article for all the flights that did not crash. User:Pedant 17:06, 11 September 2006 (UTC)
OK, so where does the article about the scheduled airline trip go? All the Comair Flight 5191 trips that didn't crash? Comair Flights 5191 which actually flew? Where do you suggest? And knock off the cracks about my name! I mean it, no personal attacks, is no personal attacks. User:Pedant 15:14, 13 September 2006 (UTC)
I have been invited [2] to informally mediate on this page. This may well not be a good idea; you might find you prefer King log. I have no idea what this dispute is about; I have no preconceptions as to what it should contain; I have no experience of mediation. But if the edit warring continues I'm just as likely to protect the page :-). So... anyone in favour? Against? William M. Connolley 21:15, 11 September 2006 (UTC)
I feel that my mediation so far has been a great success :-). Do please continue... William M. Connolley 22:34, 13 September 2006 (UTC)
I noticed that Peyna pared the victims section down a bit more, and while I generally agree that we're headed in the right direction with that, I think we should probably leave a couple things in. Polehinke is already named in the article as the first officer; I don't see any reason why we should not continue to refer to him by name, especially since he had a direct role in the crash itself. It also seems reasonable to me to name the police officers who polled Polehinke from the wreckage, as they played a direct and unique role in the immediate aftermath. The language of this section also seemed much less awkward in the previous revision. I recognize that we have to draw a line somewhere, but I think an argument could be made for the officers' actions being notable enough to warrant the inclusion of their names. However, as I write this, I find myself referring to them as "the officers"... hmmm. VxSote 04:20, 12 September 2006 (UTC)
I saw a report in a local Ky mewspaper (not online) that the victims were burned beyond recognition. Numerous county coroners were called in and worked for days on identification; one coroner apparently removed the remains of his relatives from the plane, and did not recognize them, although he was watching for them. Is this assumed in a plane crash and so not to be mentioned in the article? There was also an accuount in a newspaper that the first responders saw people moving in the wreckage, discounting the "killed instantly by the crash" account. Again, mentionable or not? Edison 16:14, 12 September 2006 (UTC)
I still don't understand why any of the victims' names are being removed. This article is only about the crash of a commercial airliner. If there were not passengers it would not be notable. Every one of the passengers and crew killed in this incident are notable because without them the crash is not notable. I also object to the use of victim over the use of casualtiy as victim has connotations of blame. User:Pedant 15:20, 13 September 2006 (UTC)
It seems that both of these words are actually troublesome for the same reason. "Victim" implies there is a corresponding action on the part of another. "Casualty" implies that it was an unavoidable accident that just happened, with no identifiable cause. I think there is a stronger argument to be made in regards to using "victim," because there are known causes: the runway was too short, the plane was not going fast enough under the conditions to take off, etc. Peyna 18:36, 13 September 2006 (UTC)
Perhaps the section regarding "victims" could be incorporated into the crash section, and then we create a new section on "survivor". Peyna 19:01, 13 September 2006 (UTC)
Just for comparison: NTSB Aircraft Accident Reports usually have an "Injuries to Persons" section where there is further distinguished between "fatal", "serious", "minor", "none". "Casualties" are often called "fatalities". Gerd Badur 19:22, 13 September 2006 (UTC)
I think the revised format is much more encylopedic. In time, the mention of the memorial service may need to be removed as it is dated. Mfields1 20:36, 13 September 2006 (UTC)
Whenever I make a major edit to a controversial article, I always pre-emptively justify it on the talk page. I added to the "Aftermath" section an article about Comair's announcement that the pilots were using outdated charts, and that they had issued a warning for their pilots to exercise "extreme caution" during the taxi to the runway. I think this is significant only because of the announcement, i.e. if it were just that they had outdated charts I would not have included it -- but the "extreme caution" proclamation I think makes it a notable part of the aftermath.
(On a side note, my personal pov on this accident is that the outdated charts are an incredibly minor contributor at best -- part of the takeoff checklist is to confirm your compass matches the runway heading, and fifty bucks says that will be cited as the primary cause in the NTSB's report) -- Jaysweet 20:50, 13 September 2006 (UTC)
Since that NOTAM should still be in effect, can anyone verify the airport spokesman's claims a little more authoritatively? Right now, it seems like it's sort of the airport's word against Comair's to the casual reader, and that's fairly unlikely to be the case. Either the NOTAM was issued, or it wasn't, and if it was indeed issued, it doesn't matter if the pilots were using outdated charts, as they should have received and understood the contents of the NOTAM and its effects on their intended taxi routing. (Again, I think the taxi route change is very tangential at best, but I like what we've got in there right now.)-- chris. lawson 03:49, 14 September 2006 (UTC)
It is indeed Comair Flight 5191, not 191. Comair uses four numbers for each of their flight numbers, not three. 160.39.91.72 ( talk) 14:08, 27 August 2008 (UTC)
For those interested, NTSB published a press release today: NTSB press release September 25, 2006 Gerd Badur 18:19, 25 September 2006 (UTC)
The article says "The aircraft impacted the ground about 1000 feet (305 m) from the end of the runway,[8]" while the press release says "The main wreckage was located approximately 1,800 feet from the end of the runway." Who is right? Or did it "impact" at 1000 feet and skid to 1800 feet? Edison 19:12, 25 September 2006 (UTC)
All taxiways named "Alpha", is that really unusual, and looking at the chart it is not true. They have A, C, D, E and F. Are they not also numbered A-1 to A-7? Any opinions on the recent addition? FAA NACO diagram, shows taxiway names in case anyone has forgotten. Do we need to add the labels to the image on the page? -- Dual Freq 22:44, 27 September 2006 (UTC)
I've seen much more complicated runway configurations and diagrams, so no, I'm not especially confused. This seems like a pilot error situation, but I'd be willing to back off that belief if there was no edge lighting on either runway and all runway signage was also not illuminated or they were giving inaccurate taxi instructions by ATC. Otherwise, I have a hard time understanding how they could get lost on such a small airfield. As for the "unreasonable risk" stated in the article, I don't see the risk any more unreasonable than any other airport. -- Dual Freq 23:58, 27 September 2006 (UTC)
This article will be put on hold (for 7 days) until these minor adjustments can be made :
Additional comments :
Lincher 02:41, 12 October 2006 (UTC)
The required lead modification has taken place and the article now fulfills all the requirements for it to be of GA status. Lincher 18:19, 12 October 2006 (UTC)
I'd like someone to show a reference to the changed staffing policy. Include a URL or a link to an article, etc. FAA ended it's nap policy after the crash, and a Nov 2005 policy required tower operations and radar approach operations to be handled by separate controllers. I'm not saying that two controllers had any bearing on the crash but now the lead paragraph in the article attempts to implicate responsibility for the crash on tower personell, and that a decision has been made as a result of the crach, to staff the tower with two controllers. Mfields1 22:46, 12 October 2006 (UTC)
Yes this is the point, the policy before was that the functions be separated, was it not? How the work got accomplished is (in same tower or at different locations) is a different matter. In the CNN article linked above the only direct quotes come from Andrew Cantwell, regional vice president of the controller's union. He is not setting FAA policy, that would be someone in management. Mfields1 09:46, 13 October 2006 (UTC)
"However, Republican Rep. Robin Hayes of North Carolina – a pilot – stressed the lone controller at Lexington was not responsible for the crash, and indeed it isn’t necessary to have two controllers in an airport tower for aviation to be safe." from Hearing Defends FAA’s Controller Staffing, Praises Safety Record, September 21, 2006. The staffing concern appears to me to be a rapid, knee-jerk reaction to an accident. Had the FAA done nothing it would have been blasted. After the heat is off, that tower will end up back to 1 controller along with all the other ones. I've said it before, there are towers with ZERO controllers in them at 5 am and airline pilots manage to take off on the correct runway at those airports. -- Dual Freq 23:43, 12 October 2006 (UTC)
An internal FAA news site, found via google, clarifies media reports on staffing saying,
Where is this policy CNN is talking about? Also, this was released August 30, 2006 as a rebuttal to the media coverage about "violating own policy". Probably not published by CNN as it didn't fit the image they wanted to portray of negligence. -- Dual Freq 00:14, 13 October 2006 (UTC)
I'll boldly rush in where angels fear to tread & give my two cents. The source material I've reviewed appears to support that the staffing policy (separation of radar & tower functions) remained unchanged, but the procedure used to implement that policy (handing off radar control to Indianapolis Center vs. having a second controller available locally) was altered.
In analysis, it's important to consider that single staffing entails inherent risks, regardless of the job. An individual, on his own, develops bad habits, habits that become reinforced because "nothing's gone wrong before." This is one of the cited reasons for the requirement that all large aircraft operating under FAR Part 121 scheduled air service have a minimum flight crew of two and that railroad locomotives be crewed by two people. The presence of others can increase alertness and reduce fatigue, and has been shown to improve regulatory & procedural compliance. In this case, a second controller (in the tower cab -- IIRC, Blue Grass airport doesn't have a separate radar room) would have lightened the administrative burden, and, conceivably, freed up the tower controller to observe & monitor takeoffs & landings. Tower controllers are trained to spot issues with departing or arriving aircraft, such as leaks, blown tires, or structural anomalies.
This accident appears to have been the direct result of pilot error in runway selection, but the failure of air traffic control to detect the error would be a contributing factor, along with the flight crew's failure to check that their heading was correct for the runway they were using, and errors of omission or commission on the part of the airport operator in staffing the tower or marking the runways. For that matter, it's an arguable point that the aircraft's onboard AHRS was flawed in its design that it failed to alert the crew when takeoff power was applied. In the end, though, it all comes back to FAR 91.3, which mandates the pilot in command's ultimate authority & responsibility for the safe conduct of the flight. Since human error is unlikely to be eradicated, studying & reporting on the factors that contributed to the error is the best approach we have to improve aviation safety. -- Ssbohio 02:05, 10 December 2006 (UTC)
According to the article "Human Factors Issues Key in Comair Flight 5191 Probe" in Aviation Week & Space Technology, dated 09/04/2006, the closed taxiway between runways 22 and 26 is the one indicated by the article here as "desired", and the taxiway the crew should have taken is the one indicated by the article here as "closed". Enduser 19:49, 13 October 2006 (UTC)
I wanted to add that I can more readily see how the accident might have occurred if the Aviation Week & Space Technology diagram is correct. Both crew members had been to this airfield several times, and were used to taking a "left" turn with respect to barriers ahead. With the taxiway they were used to taking now being closed, the "left" turn they were used to taking put them directly on runway 26. Enduser 20:01, 13 October 2006 (UTC)
The NTSB has just made a release stating that it will open a public docket into the accident in January 2007, and expects to close the investigation shortly after. I will add this to the article tomorrow, I have just run out of time today. Blood red sandman 19:04, 11 November 2006 (UTC)
This New York Times article says, in part:
Maybe it's just my mind playing tricks on me, but it sure sounds like they're implying "rotate" was said a whole lot earlier than 138 knots. Can anyone else find a source that's a bit more explicit about this? The AP has wire stories all over the place now but they don't seem to be saying much about this bit. What would really be useful would be the NTSB actually putting this stuff on their site, but if it's there, I can't find it.-- chris. lawson 05:13, 18 January 2007 (UTC)
I received a very kind E-mail via the foundation from someone who has strong ties to one of the crew members of this flight. She kindly explained to me that there was misinformation in the aftermath section, which I have now corrected; please see this new source. Be careful in your wording of this article, as many people, including loved ones of those who were lost in this tragedy, are reading this article. — Pilot guy cleared for takeoff 17:06, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
Flight 5191 would have filed its flight plan as COM191, not as DAL5191. Thus, I'm removing the DAL5191 designation from the article. The reservations reference to DL5191 is correct, because Comair does not book its own Delta Connection flights.
For an example of how this works, check out these examples from FlightAware. Try tracking flight DAL5190. Next, try tracking COM190. This concept will also work for Flight 5191 as long as COM191 remains in the FlightAware database (it's there as of today). Yayro 17:16, 9 April 2007 (UTC)
A long time ago when most of this article was written, there was dialogue about why the pilots would use the wrong runway. There is an article written in the Lexington Herald that seems to show new information about the status of the runway lights on that day and a few days before: http://www.kentucky.com/211/story/42385.html Mfields1 01:15, 15 April 2007 (UTC)
It is indeed Comair Flight 5191, not 191. Comair uses four numbers for each of their flight numbers, not three.
160.39.91.72 (
talk) 14:05, 27 August 2008 (UTC)
There is some disagreement over the location of the crash. Both the article and Blue Grass Airport are clear that the airport is outside Lexington city limits, so the info box should say Fayette County, Kentucky, not Lexington. The first paragraph naturally should and does make it clear that we're talking about the Lexington, Kentucky airport here.-- Prosfilaes 18:36, 31 July 2007 (UTC)
That is what they mean by unincorporated. Fayette and Lexington merged in the 50's I believe. They did the same thing that Louisville Jefferson County did just recently. This is the adress for the airport, 4000 Terminal Drive, Suite 206 • Lexington, KY 40510-9607. This is why I said the next time this gets changed it will be cited as vandalism. People have continually been changing it to Fayette County with disregard to the actual location of the airport. All anyone has to do to verify this is to go to the airport webpage at www.bluegrassairport.com or look up Lexington, KY and Fayette County, KY on wikipedia. Not trying to be a butt just getting tired of reverting this thing after clearly explaining the revert. User:Bluecord
I signed in with the full intention of editing the location of this article, but given the comments here thought I would seek discussion before doing so. Some are relying on the wiki article on Bluegrass Airport as support for leaving the reference to unincorporated Fayette County.
I submit that that article should be edited as well. There simply is no such thing as unincorporated Fayette County. Unincorporated means not part of a city. All of Fayette County was incorporated into Lexington when the voters approved a merger in 1973. As a local, I can assure you that Bluegrass Aiport is factually in Lexington, KY.
As someone mentioned, this is similar to the Louisville merger. Every part of Jefferson County that was not part of another city in Jefferson County (called unincorporated) was merged with, or incorporated into Louisville Metro. There are no longer unincorporated parts of Jefferson County.
This is a different concept from what many are used to, but the county and city are the same thing here. I would propose editing to read "...from Bluegrass Airport in Lexington-Fayette County, Kentucky, west of downtown."
The hyphenated use is consistent with the legal name "Lexington-Fayette Urban County Government" and local usage. See the about Lexington section on the web page of the Lexington Convention and Visitors Bureau. I'd appreciate feed back. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Lexeagle ( talk • contribs) 20:26, 1 November 2007 (UTC)
For the reasons stated above, I have changed to read "from Blue Grass Airport in Fayette County, Kentucky, four miles (6 km) west of the central business district of the City of Lexington." This is factually accurate, and merely deletes the reference to unincorporated and gives more detail about location. This seems to be best solution given all the back and forth.-- Lexeagle 20:09, 5 November 2007 (UTC)
The boxed area on the article page says that the cause of the crash is "crash on take-off". This is not the cause of the crash, but the result. The cause has been established by the NTSB. Primary cause was pilot error. Contributing factor was an understaffed tower. Perhaps this should be amended.
consider eliminating the chart of nationalities. This can be summarized by text. Also consider less of a diary style of writing (on September 12, ..... on September 14, .....). Overall, an article that others have put a lot of work into and it shows! Archtransit 00:06, 4 December 2007 (UTC)
Can someone please provide some references for the designation "Comair Flight 191".
In fact, not a single one of the references used in the article uses the designation "Comair Flight 191" (or "Delta 5191"). (A few of the aviation rumour sites use "Comair Flight 191", but even there it is quickly corrected to "Comair Flight 5191"; not that these are sites we can reliably quote from anyway). At present, use of "Comair Flight 191" in this article constitutes orginal research. 82.1.63.238 ( talk) 06:39, 3 September 2008 (UTC)
In the absence of any references to the contrary, I must reluctantly conclude that use of "Comair 191" in this article must be discontinued. 82.1.63.238 ( talk) 14:17, 11 September 2008 (UTC)
See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Comair_Flight_5191/Archive_1 where this was discussed and a consensus of more than 1 decided on Comair 191. -- Dual Freq ( talk) 22:01, 17 September 2008 (UTC)
All communications with ATC on the crash transcript use the call sign "Comair 191. In every transmission both the Control Tower, and the Pilots use "Comair 191." The 5 is only for Delta airlines ticket code sharing. The extra digit only indicates that depsite the flight being ticketed as Delta, the actual flight is being operated by a code sharing carrier. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Kyle kursk ( talk • contribs) 22:35, 14 March 2021 (UTC)
I'm making a guess here that your recent edit here, and likely the creation of your account, was personally motivated. If so, I'm very sorry for what you've had to go through. No one should have to be subjected to that. That said, no offense was intended in the reversion. There were multiple, rather serious problems with the edit you made; it's nothing personal, and says nothing about your intent and does NOT mean that the content you added could not be included at some point. It just needs to be done properly when it is, and there are literally thousands of people here willing to help you do just that, I'm sure. I can only do so much myself, I've been editing anonymously on Wikipedia for several years, but only occasionally and I'm not exactly an expert on policies and procedures.
the key thing though, is that this actually IS an encyclopedia. While I'm sure you feel very strongly about this, personal comments don't really belong in the article itself. Here on the talk page, sure fine, whatever. The article however, has to conform to a number of guidelines regarding tone and sources of information. A few big ones to start with would be WP:NPOV WP:CITE and WP:OR. Others that know more can help point you to others I suspect, I'm pretty limited in my policy knowledge to tell the truth. Regardless, you may honestly believe what you said in the article is true, but unless there's a reliable, published source stating as much, it cannot be included. I understand that you likely feel very strongly about this, but unfortunately your personal testimony would qualify as Original Research at best, and thus would not be allowed.
If Michael Ryan was included as an American Casualty in the statistics, it is likely to be because the sources used in compiling it listed him as such. As we all know though, no source is infallible, this is why multiple sources are preferred if possible. If a source supporting what you said is found, it will greatly aid in getting the information into the article. In fact, it's likely that someone else might actually change it before you had the chance, in such a case! I tried checking the most likely source, one of the articles that had profiles of all the passengers, but unfortunately the original is down and the archived version did not have Michael's profile included in the archive.
Finally, and someone else will have to explain this because I don't know how the code works myself, your addition to the statistics box, perfectly fine if backed up by sources, didn't work right, for reasons I'm not sure of myself as I don't know how the bloody thing works either. It did pretty badly mess up the box though, which was actually the main reason I just reverted it rather than trying to edit it down. I can't help too much with this one...as I simply don't know how. Sorry.
Here's hoping this is worked out in the end in a way that satisfies everyone. It'll be a damned shame if it's not, and I simply don't know enough to do it myself, or I would. -Graptor 208.102.243.30 ( talk) 00:46, 9 September 2009 (UTC)
This statement is totally irrelevant, and I suggest that it be removed:
This is the third accident involving a flight 191 in the U.S. The others were American Airlines and Delta Airlines flight 191. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Gentleman wiki ( talk • contribs) 04:32, 24 August 2010 (UTC)
Just a passive reader but I agree with the delete suggestion. Saying this is the third accident of a flight using this number on three differnt airlines addes nothing to the article. Also, the referance to Singapore Airlines making a wrong turn adds nothing to the article. The first two items that shaw a pattern of errors AT THIS AIRPORT is spot on. Just HMO. Kansas Bike Guy ( talk) 18:28, 27 August 2010 (UTC)
Around halfway down the article I read "NTSB released its final report into the accident, citing this "non-pertinent conversation" as a contributing factor in the accident."
Ok, that sounds reasonable, the flight crew distracted each other by talking about something non-pertinent. But "this"? There is no mention of the conversation anywhere in the article (maybe there once was). The sentence should be reworded, or mention of the conversation put back in the article. Maproom ( talk) 22:32, 27 August 2010 (UTC)
I am adding a small section about the Flight 5191 Memorial which was dedicated on the fifth anniversary of the crash. I serve on the Flight 5191 Memorial Commission and had a family member on the flight. Serpentor74 ( talk) 17:04, 15 August 2012 (UTC)Serpentor74
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Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 10:47, 28 November 2016 (UTC)
Which sources are deemed unreliable in this article? I'm no seeing any that ring alarm bells. I propose that the tag is removed. Mjroots ( talk) 11:50, 4 August 2017 (UTC)
I was immediately puzzled by the survivor's attorney claiming contributory negligence as a defence. Contributory negligence is a very specific and almost completely abandoned doctrine in tort law. Only 5 states still adhere to contributory negligence, and Kentucky isn't one of them. So I went to look at the references to the suit, only to find that the two I sought were both dead links. The references are part of a template, and I can't figure out how to delete these dead links. Toyokuni3 ( talk) 07:29, 25 February 2019 (UTC)
What was the deal with the runways. Not just this plane had a problem with runway 22 and runway 26 Quoting from article: "In 1993, a commercial jet at Blue Grass Airport was cleared for takeoff on Runway 22, but mistakenly took Runway 26 instead. Tower personnel noticed the mistake and canceled the aircraft's takeoff clearance just as the crew realized their error. The aircraft subsequently departed safely from Runway 22. An identical occurrence took place in January 2007 when a Learjet lined up on Runway 26, but again the error was noticed and corrected before the flight took off." Did this airport not have good maps or runway labeling? Bucky winter soldier ( talk) 13:44, 6 October 2023 (UTC)