This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | Archive 2 |
Okay, I've seen that someone has added an external link to a site with femdom chastity stories, and before we get into another edit war, it's time for us to establish the criteria that external links must meet in order to be posted here.
I propose the following: External links are considered reference sources and must have factual information. The factual content in an external link must be both original and authoritative enough to be used as a reference in any scholarly work dealing with this subject. zabadoh 09:41, 21 August 2006 (UTC)
Is it just me, or does Choosing a chastity belt and Purchasing and wearing a chastity belt sound like an ad? -- 142.177.125.126 18:27, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
There seems to be continual reverting over the external links section of this article.
The main disputes seem to be:
1. Some prefer to exclude all links to commercial manufacturers' sites; others wish to keep them in. AnonMoos 00:49, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
2. IP 66.27.70.252 wishes to put in a link to chastityweb.net, while everybody else who has expressed an opinion on the matter wants to keep it out.
Maybe we could develop some kind of consensus on this issue of what external links are worthy, instead of people continually coming along and undoing what past editors have done. AnonMoos 00:49, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
Now 66.27.70.252 seems to be insisting that if her(?) site doesn't get in, none of the others should get in. AnonMoos 04:02, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
Linking to external sites that are designed to appeal to prurient interests is not a very good idea since such sites frequently harvest the identities of viewers of their material and then sell their internet identities to spammers.
Well, if you like spam, try checking out a dozen sites on reproductive health... ;-)
Patrick0Moran 22:24, 25 Sep 2003 (UTC)
Is this referring to the 1180 poem? If so, it is very weak evidence; it doesn't actually mention chastity belts at all. The lady in the poem knots a chemise around her loins as a symbol of fidelity. Calling this evidence of the early existence of chastity belts is desperation. The other possibility is the occasional medieval reference to cingulum castitatis, but some researchers claim to have demonstrated that all such references are metaphorical.
Some references to this evidence would be nice. All the other discussions I have seen offer just two pre-nineteenth century references, both of them dubious. These are the sketch in Bellifortis from 1405 (unknown if it represents a real device), and the anecdote from Pierre de Bourdeilles sometime in the mid-sixteenth century. De Bourdeilles is a story teller, not an historian, and his tale is humorous and somewhat unlikely. (It claims that a cunning smith made up chastity belts to put husbands off their guard, while he secretly kept skeleton keys and had his way with their wives.) Securiger 15:50, 5 Aug 2004 (UTC)
Chastity belts and similar antisexual devices were used to prevent premarital sex in girls and young women and extramarital sex in married women.
This is unlikely (especially a prematital sex part), because chastity belt from iron cannot be weared for a long time, and stainless steel was invented only in 20th century. Also, I couldn't find any evidence for this claim. Neither I could find any evidence for involuntary usage of chastity belts before victorian times.
-- 62.219.175.34 02:25, 4 Mar 2005 (UTC)
64.12.117.6 made a very long addition yesterday; I'm moving it in here because it looked as if he/she intended it for discussion instead. --83.216.199.98
I thought chastity belts used in the medaeval times were just a Victorian legend.
I also think that the male device shown should not actually be being used. An empty one would do just as well. I personally find it offensive and pornographic. I don't think that a clearly visble penis is necessary for this article. Anotherpongo 17:02, 2 February 2007 (UTC)
My apologies for my earlier misuse of those "important words", but I feel that pictures of genitals should be kept to a minimum. An empty device would serve more-or-less the same purpose, and demonstrate what a male chastity device looks like.
I do not like the idea of someone padlocking my genitals in a plastic tube, and I don't see how anyone would actively it. I am not here to force my views on others though. I would just like it if an obese man's clearly visible genitals were kept off an online encyclopaedia. Anotherpongo 19:40, 5 February 2007 (UTC)
If 'Anotherpongo' is so horrified by the sight of a penis, what on earth is he/she doing reading an article about chastity belts? May I suggest reading about gardening instead, or bunny rabbits? Quite frankly, if you don't like what you see, simply click away - don't stop to ponitificate. You may like blue, others like red - let it be. Life's too short etc.
The following comes from questionable source and thus was moved to the talk page:
While I think it is possible such devices are still used today in rare instances, the source used to support the claim is a erotic story that claims to be based on a true story. Given that authors of erotica have been known to make false claims of a story being true I don't think it counts as even anecdotal evidence. Also the source from which it comes from (BDSM library) probably does not meet Wikipedia guidelines for sources. -- Cab88 15:33, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
I would move it back to the main page. The author of that story is a credible and regular poster on that discussion board, which is the best on that topic. 141.218.210.28 ( talk) 05:57, 16 October 2008 (UTC)
I think most of this article reads as a "how to" guide, and should therefore be moved to Wikibooks and replaced here with a link to the new article. The Wednesday Island 19:58, 6 May 2007 (UTC)
Hey, just curious why the modern picture of a male chastity belt was changed. I don't take it personal and I wont change it back until I get some feedback about wether or not you all think it was valid. Thanks!
Orbiterdictum 03:20, 27 May 2007 (UTC)
New image has now been deleted: I have located earlier image and reinstated it IdreamofJeanie 15:46, 8 June 2007 (UTC)
I have read that several churches in the middle ages venerated 'Mary's belt' as a holy relic. Is this supposed to be a veneration of, funnily enough, an alleged chastity belt, or is it supposed to have been the common clothing item, worn by Mary? --10:43, 8 June 2007 212.152.70.12
It seems as though the concept of a "chastity cage," while not necessarily a belt per-se, accomplishes the same thing. I'm not an expert in the area, however judging by some of the pictures on Chastity belt and the shared features, the purpose (in modern terms) is to primarily prevent orgasm of one or multiple parties. It seems to me that Chastity cage fits that description, but is primarily intended for males. So, it seems that more beef could be added to Chastity belt by condensing Chastity cage, which is poorly-sourced and lacks historical context, and adding it into Chastity belt, which is both much better-sourced and has a decent amount of historical context. Lemme know what you think. -- slakr\ talk / 05:24, 9 October 2007 (UTC)
Per Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Chastity cage, Chastity cage has been redirected here. Interested editors may wish to evaluate the archived versions of that article for content that may benefit chastity belt. - Banyan Tree 11:18, 21 April 2008 (UTC)
If you lose the key for one of these things, does it come with a spare. If it doesn't I imagine you'd be in the proverbial, just wonderin -- Hadseys ( talk • contribs) 15:07, 17 November 2007 (UTC)
Following is fiction but with a moral. Julius Caesar, before going off to war, entrusted a spare key to his most devoted general. He said: "In case I am killed in this coming battle, you may then use this key to free the chastity belt from my wife." Then, as he rode with his army out the gates of Rome, his trusted general came running after him: "Caesar, Caesar, you gave me the wrong key!" LoopTel ( talk) 20:45, 7 November 2008 (UTC)
I am a regular user browsing Wikipedia and I noticed one of the reference links had gone 404 and dead. However, I did locate the content in question with a slightly changed URL, can anybody update to reflect this? I can't seem to get the list up for editing. The link in question is the one where 2 scientists claim that Chastity Belts are nothing but a myth. New link is included below. http://www.chron.com/CDA/archives/archive.mpl?id=1996_1349429
194.117.188.230 ( talk) 11:01, 25 January 2008 (UTC)
Most of this article covers very old and cumbersome styles of belts. Shouldn't something be added about more recent developments, for instance those padlocked trousers being worn by indonesian massage parlor workers to prevent sexual activity? Doesn't that count as a chastity belt? 216.208.38.26 ( talk) 19:18, 4 June 2008 (UTC)Trainman2
Hello, I seem to recall having read that chastity belts are getting common again in some countries as a rape prevention measure, shouldn't be some mention of it under modern use? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.167.73.174 ( talk) 04:55, 27 November 2008 (UTC)
It was apparently used in the ancient Orient. See the book The Syro-Aramaic Reading of the Koran, which claims that the chastity belt is a kind of christian hijab, from an arabic philological point of view. ADM ( talk) 01:39, 6 January 2009 (UTC)
Can erection really be completely avoided? If a man consciously tries to never have an erection should he not get at least one wile asleep? If he is wearing a chastity device designdet to prevent erection would he not wake up from a terrible pain in his penis?
2009-08-09 Lena Synnerholm, Märsta, Sweden.
You sound like you don't know what you are talking about. At least, I don't understand your answear.
2009-08-18 Lena Synnerholm, Märsta, Sweden. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.247.167.70 ( talk) 11:02, 18 August 2009 (UTC)
It doesn't cause "terrible" pain in your penis.. just a little discomfort. Sleeping on your back prevents it anyway. Beyond the first few "break in" weeks, you don't notice this so much. And yes, it WILL prevent a full on erection. Becoming very aroused is still very possible. ;D -- 22:32, 29 November 2009 98.23.11.13
No real pictures. Aielen ( talk) 22:47, 7 August 2011 (UTC)
Not sure what that really means -- it's been very well-known at least since Dingwall's book was published (1931) that chastity-belts were far more of a Renaissance phenomenon than Medieval, and that Renaissance belts were internally padded (so that the metal didn't directly touch the skin), and the padding generally had to be changed at least once a month (i.e. they were not suitable for long-term uninterrupted wear). Many Renaissance belts seem to have worked reasonably well within the above parameters, and the Classen book doesn't seem to add much, based on the summary given in the article... AnonMoos ( talk) 05:40, 31 August 2011 (UTC)
I have no idea what the Classen book amounts to as a whole, but frankly, the quotes from the book which have been included in this article sound a whole lot like unmitigated flagrant nonsense, with each new one worse than the last. It's undisputed among serious scholars that chastity belts were not a medieval phenomenon -- but on the other hand, there also has been fairly strong support for the fact that chastity belts were a (minor) historical phenomenon of the renaissance, among a few rich merchants (mainly) who doubted the fidelity of their often much-younger wives. Frankly, unless some indication is given of the facts and reasoning on which Classen bases his somewhat out-of-the-mainstream conclusions, I would feel inclined to yank all Classen mentions from the article -- especially if I receive no reply to these talk page remarks. AnonMoos ( talk) 07:50, 12 September 2011 (UTC)
All the efforts at debunking seemed to be aimed at medieval chastity belts, but no serious scholars have set much store by the existence of medieval chastity belts since at least 1931 -- unless you call 15th-century northern Italy "the middle ages" (most informed people would call it the Renaissance). Therefore all the medieval debunkings are really somewhat irrelevant to the actual main historical issue -- which is that Dingwall and some others think that it's reasonably likely that a small number of Renaissance rich men used chastity belts on their often much-younger wives... AnonMoos ( talk) 05:17, 16 September 2011 (UTC)
The film 3D Sex & Zen (and probably also the original Sex & Zen) has a character wearing a chastity belt. I don't know if it's in the original story (The Carnal Prayer Mat, 1657), but if it is then the obvious question is whether it was the author's imagination (perhaps he had heard of European chastity belts) or a real phenomenon in the Qing dynasty (or earlier). Zip-x ( talk) 14:02, 23 January 2012 (UTC)
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This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | Archive 2 |
Okay, I've seen that someone has added an external link to a site with femdom chastity stories, and before we get into another edit war, it's time for us to establish the criteria that external links must meet in order to be posted here.
I propose the following: External links are considered reference sources and must have factual information. The factual content in an external link must be both original and authoritative enough to be used as a reference in any scholarly work dealing with this subject. zabadoh 09:41, 21 August 2006 (UTC)
Is it just me, or does Choosing a chastity belt and Purchasing and wearing a chastity belt sound like an ad? -- 142.177.125.126 18:27, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
There seems to be continual reverting over the external links section of this article.
The main disputes seem to be:
1. Some prefer to exclude all links to commercial manufacturers' sites; others wish to keep them in. AnonMoos 00:49, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
2. IP 66.27.70.252 wishes to put in a link to chastityweb.net, while everybody else who has expressed an opinion on the matter wants to keep it out.
Maybe we could develop some kind of consensus on this issue of what external links are worthy, instead of people continually coming along and undoing what past editors have done. AnonMoos 00:49, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
Now 66.27.70.252 seems to be insisting that if her(?) site doesn't get in, none of the others should get in. AnonMoos 04:02, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
Linking to external sites that are designed to appeal to prurient interests is not a very good idea since such sites frequently harvest the identities of viewers of their material and then sell their internet identities to spammers.
Well, if you like spam, try checking out a dozen sites on reproductive health... ;-)
Patrick0Moran 22:24, 25 Sep 2003 (UTC)
Is this referring to the 1180 poem? If so, it is very weak evidence; it doesn't actually mention chastity belts at all. The lady in the poem knots a chemise around her loins as a symbol of fidelity. Calling this evidence of the early existence of chastity belts is desperation. The other possibility is the occasional medieval reference to cingulum castitatis, but some researchers claim to have demonstrated that all such references are metaphorical.
Some references to this evidence would be nice. All the other discussions I have seen offer just two pre-nineteenth century references, both of them dubious. These are the sketch in Bellifortis from 1405 (unknown if it represents a real device), and the anecdote from Pierre de Bourdeilles sometime in the mid-sixteenth century. De Bourdeilles is a story teller, not an historian, and his tale is humorous and somewhat unlikely. (It claims that a cunning smith made up chastity belts to put husbands off their guard, while he secretly kept skeleton keys and had his way with their wives.) Securiger 15:50, 5 Aug 2004 (UTC)
Chastity belts and similar antisexual devices were used to prevent premarital sex in girls and young women and extramarital sex in married women.
This is unlikely (especially a prematital sex part), because chastity belt from iron cannot be weared for a long time, and stainless steel was invented only in 20th century. Also, I couldn't find any evidence for this claim. Neither I could find any evidence for involuntary usage of chastity belts before victorian times.
-- 62.219.175.34 02:25, 4 Mar 2005 (UTC)
64.12.117.6 made a very long addition yesterday; I'm moving it in here because it looked as if he/she intended it for discussion instead. --83.216.199.98
I thought chastity belts used in the medaeval times were just a Victorian legend.
I also think that the male device shown should not actually be being used. An empty one would do just as well. I personally find it offensive and pornographic. I don't think that a clearly visble penis is necessary for this article. Anotherpongo 17:02, 2 February 2007 (UTC)
My apologies for my earlier misuse of those "important words", but I feel that pictures of genitals should be kept to a minimum. An empty device would serve more-or-less the same purpose, and demonstrate what a male chastity device looks like.
I do not like the idea of someone padlocking my genitals in a plastic tube, and I don't see how anyone would actively it. I am not here to force my views on others though. I would just like it if an obese man's clearly visible genitals were kept off an online encyclopaedia. Anotherpongo 19:40, 5 February 2007 (UTC)
If 'Anotherpongo' is so horrified by the sight of a penis, what on earth is he/she doing reading an article about chastity belts? May I suggest reading about gardening instead, or bunny rabbits? Quite frankly, if you don't like what you see, simply click away - don't stop to ponitificate. You may like blue, others like red - let it be. Life's too short etc.
The following comes from questionable source and thus was moved to the talk page:
While I think it is possible such devices are still used today in rare instances, the source used to support the claim is a erotic story that claims to be based on a true story. Given that authors of erotica have been known to make false claims of a story being true I don't think it counts as even anecdotal evidence. Also the source from which it comes from (BDSM library) probably does not meet Wikipedia guidelines for sources. -- Cab88 15:33, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
I would move it back to the main page. The author of that story is a credible and regular poster on that discussion board, which is the best on that topic. 141.218.210.28 ( talk) 05:57, 16 October 2008 (UTC)
I think most of this article reads as a "how to" guide, and should therefore be moved to Wikibooks and replaced here with a link to the new article. The Wednesday Island 19:58, 6 May 2007 (UTC)
Hey, just curious why the modern picture of a male chastity belt was changed. I don't take it personal and I wont change it back until I get some feedback about wether or not you all think it was valid. Thanks!
Orbiterdictum 03:20, 27 May 2007 (UTC)
New image has now been deleted: I have located earlier image and reinstated it IdreamofJeanie 15:46, 8 June 2007 (UTC)
I have read that several churches in the middle ages venerated 'Mary's belt' as a holy relic. Is this supposed to be a veneration of, funnily enough, an alleged chastity belt, or is it supposed to have been the common clothing item, worn by Mary? --10:43, 8 June 2007 212.152.70.12
It seems as though the concept of a "chastity cage," while not necessarily a belt per-se, accomplishes the same thing. I'm not an expert in the area, however judging by some of the pictures on Chastity belt and the shared features, the purpose (in modern terms) is to primarily prevent orgasm of one or multiple parties. It seems to me that Chastity cage fits that description, but is primarily intended for males. So, it seems that more beef could be added to Chastity belt by condensing Chastity cage, which is poorly-sourced and lacks historical context, and adding it into Chastity belt, which is both much better-sourced and has a decent amount of historical context. Lemme know what you think. -- slakr\ talk / 05:24, 9 October 2007 (UTC)
Per Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Chastity cage, Chastity cage has been redirected here. Interested editors may wish to evaluate the archived versions of that article for content that may benefit chastity belt. - Banyan Tree 11:18, 21 April 2008 (UTC)
If you lose the key for one of these things, does it come with a spare. If it doesn't I imagine you'd be in the proverbial, just wonderin -- Hadseys ( talk • contribs) 15:07, 17 November 2007 (UTC)
Following is fiction but with a moral. Julius Caesar, before going off to war, entrusted a spare key to his most devoted general. He said: "In case I am killed in this coming battle, you may then use this key to free the chastity belt from my wife." Then, as he rode with his army out the gates of Rome, his trusted general came running after him: "Caesar, Caesar, you gave me the wrong key!" LoopTel ( talk) 20:45, 7 November 2008 (UTC)
I am a regular user browsing Wikipedia and I noticed one of the reference links had gone 404 and dead. However, I did locate the content in question with a slightly changed URL, can anybody update to reflect this? I can't seem to get the list up for editing. The link in question is the one where 2 scientists claim that Chastity Belts are nothing but a myth. New link is included below. http://www.chron.com/CDA/archives/archive.mpl?id=1996_1349429
194.117.188.230 ( talk) 11:01, 25 January 2008 (UTC)
Most of this article covers very old and cumbersome styles of belts. Shouldn't something be added about more recent developments, for instance those padlocked trousers being worn by indonesian massage parlor workers to prevent sexual activity? Doesn't that count as a chastity belt? 216.208.38.26 ( talk) 19:18, 4 June 2008 (UTC)Trainman2
Hello, I seem to recall having read that chastity belts are getting common again in some countries as a rape prevention measure, shouldn't be some mention of it under modern use? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.167.73.174 ( talk) 04:55, 27 November 2008 (UTC)
It was apparently used in the ancient Orient. See the book The Syro-Aramaic Reading of the Koran, which claims that the chastity belt is a kind of christian hijab, from an arabic philological point of view. ADM ( talk) 01:39, 6 January 2009 (UTC)
Can erection really be completely avoided? If a man consciously tries to never have an erection should he not get at least one wile asleep? If he is wearing a chastity device designdet to prevent erection would he not wake up from a terrible pain in his penis?
2009-08-09 Lena Synnerholm, Märsta, Sweden.
You sound like you don't know what you are talking about. At least, I don't understand your answear.
2009-08-18 Lena Synnerholm, Märsta, Sweden. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.247.167.70 ( talk) 11:02, 18 August 2009 (UTC)
It doesn't cause "terrible" pain in your penis.. just a little discomfort. Sleeping on your back prevents it anyway. Beyond the first few "break in" weeks, you don't notice this so much. And yes, it WILL prevent a full on erection. Becoming very aroused is still very possible. ;D -- 22:32, 29 November 2009 98.23.11.13
No real pictures. Aielen ( talk) 22:47, 7 August 2011 (UTC)
Not sure what that really means -- it's been very well-known at least since Dingwall's book was published (1931) that chastity-belts were far more of a Renaissance phenomenon than Medieval, and that Renaissance belts were internally padded (so that the metal didn't directly touch the skin), and the padding generally had to be changed at least once a month (i.e. they were not suitable for long-term uninterrupted wear). Many Renaissance belts seem to have worked reasonably well within the above parameters, and the Classen book doesn't seem to add much, based on the summary given in the article... AnonMoos ( talk) 05:40, 31 August 2011 (UTC)
I have no idea what the Classen book amounts to as a whole, but frankly, the quotes from the book which have been included in this article sound a whole lot like unmitigated flagrant nonsense, with each new one worse than the last. It's undisputed among serious scholars that chastity belts were not a medieval phenomenon -- but on the other hand, there also has been fairly strong support for the fact that chastity belts were a (minor) historical phenomenon of the renaissance, among a few rich merchants (mainly) who doubted the fidelity of their often much-younger wives. Frankly, unless some indication is given of the facts and reasoning on which Classen bases his somewhat out-of-the-mainstream conclusions, I would feel inclined to yank all Classen mentions from the article -- especially if I receive no reply to these talk page remarks. AnonMoos ( talk) 07:50, 12 September 2011 (UTC)
All the efforts at debunking seemed to be aimed at medieval chastity belts, but no serious scholars have set much store by the existence of medieval chastity belts since at least 1931 -- unless you call 15th-century northern Italy "the middle ages" (most informed people would call it the Renaissance). Therefore all the medieval debunkings are really somewhat irrelevant to the actual main historical issue -- which is that Dingwall and some others think that it's reasonably likely that a small number of Renaissance rich men used chastity belts on their often much-younger wives... AnonMoos ( talk) 05:17, 16 September 2011 (UTC)
The film 3D Sex & Zen (and probably also the original Sex & Zen) has a character wearing a chastity belt. I don't know if it's in the original story (The Carnal Prayer Mat, 1657), but if it is then the obvious question is whether it was the author's imagination (perhaps he had heard of European chastity belts) or a real phenomenon in the Qing dynasty (or earlier). Zip-x ( talk) 14:02, 23 January 2012 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just added archive links to one external link on
Chastity belt. Please take a moment to review
my edit. If necessary, add {{
cbignore}}
after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add {{
nobots|deny=InternetArchiveBot}}
to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true to let others know.
This message was posted before February 2018.
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Cheers. — cyberbot II Talk to my owner:Online 17:12, 28 August 2015 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on Chastity belt. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
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