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The taxt says Henri III the king of Navarre but should read Henri IV RayParis13 ( talk) 08:04, 23 February 2019 (UTC)
Also can we use Henri then Henry? RayParis13 ( talk) 08:05, 23 February 2019 (UTC)
Hi @ Ecrm87:.
I see you recently reverted my manual reversion of the article to its original form on grounds of WP:UE. I confess I don't really understand the purpose of this, the names used are all widely present in English historiography (indeed both my English and French language biographies of Henri IV refer to him with that spelling (Pitts and Babelon), and François is not an uncommonly used name, either in the books used by me to write this article or in the English lexicon.
'Ligue' is a slightly more obscure term, but again, it is the way the 'Catholic League' is referred to in my English source (Sutherland), and moreover the first time it is used it is done with a link to the article.
By reverting the edit there is now greater cause for confusion in this article due to the inconsistencies of spelling it produces throughout the body, moreover it means that we are left with situations where people who are obscure enough to never have been 'anglicised' in the Anglophone world (such as the Cardinal's mother Françoise d'Alençon) are left intact, but other people are switched from François to Francis. It seems far more logical to me to just leave them all as François/Françoise. sovietblobfish ( talk) 13:41, 25 June 2023 (UTC)
I agree with you that the French names are present in English historiography, however what WP:UE is for is to create a standard of consistency across wikipedia, not just on one page. This is why the article title for Henri III is Henry III of France, therefore we have to follow this. Françoise d'Alençon's page is under her French name which is therefore acceptable to use in the French form in-article. I know it's perhaps not the best logically, but it does create a certain consistency for editors to follow.
Furthermore, adding French names to English links unnecessarily lengthens the link per WP:NOPIPE, another reason to stick with the English names.
I'm happy to run through the article again to try and improve the spellings, but it seems you know more about the subject than I. Specifically with regard to the Ligue my feeling is to say: Ligue (Catholic League) to explain and then use Catholic League or League thereafter. The same with Liguer, etc. Ecrm87 ( talk) 15:02, 25 June 2023 (UTC)
It has been proposed in this section that
Charles I, Cardinal de Bourbon be
renamed and moved to
Charles I de Bourbon (archbishop of Rouen). A bot will list this discussion on requested moves' current discussions subpage within an hour of this tag being placed. The discussion may be closed 7 days after being opened, if consensus has been reached (see the closing instructions). Please base arguments on article title policy, and keep discussion succinct and civil. Please use {{
subst:requested move}} . Do not use {{
requested move/dated}} directly. |
Charles I, Cardinal de Bourbon → Charles I de Bourbon (archbishop of Rouen) – There is a lot of intersection between the names Charles, the house of Bourbon and the title of cardinal. See Cardinal of Bourbon and Charles de Bourbon. The current title is confusing because this fellow was not the first cardinal of the House of Bourbon named Charles. He was the first Charles to be archbishop of Rouen. The title I propose follows the French Wikipedia. Srnec ( talk) 22:47, 2 March 2024 (UTC) — Relisting. Natg 19 ( talk) 17:17, 27 March 2024 (UTC)
This article is rated B-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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The taxt says Henri III the king of Navarre but should read Henri IV RayParis13 ( talk) 08:04, 23 February 2019 (UTC)
Also can we use Henri then Henry? RayParis13 ( talk) 08:05, 23 February 2019 (UTC)
Hi @ Ecrm87:.
I see you recently reverted my manual reversion of the article to its original form on grounds of WP:UE. I confess I don't really understand the purpose of this, the names used are all widely present in English historiography (indeed both my English and French language biographies of Henri IV refer to him with that spelling (Pitts and Babelon), and François is not an uncommonly used name, either in the books used by me to write this article or in the English lexicon.
'Ligue' is a slightly more obscure term, but again, it is the way the 'Catholic League' is referred to in my English source (Sutherland), and moreover the first time it is used it is done with a link to the article.
By reverting the edit there is now greater cause for confusion in this article due to the inconsistencies of spelling it produces throughout the body, moreover it means that we are left with situations where people who are obscure enough to never have been 'anglicised' in the Anglophone world (such as the Cardinal's mother Françoise d'Alençon) are left intact, but other people are switched from François to Francis. It seems far more logical to me to just leave them all as François/Françoise. sovietblobfish ( talk) 13:41, 25 June 2023 (UTC)
I agree with you that the French names are present in English historiography, however what WP:UE is for is to create a standard of consistency across wikipedia, not just on one page. This is why the article title for Henri III is Henry III of France, therefore we have to follow this. Françoise d'Alençon's page is under her French name which is therefore acceptable to use in the French form in-article. I know it's perhaps not the best logically, but it does create a certain consistency for editors to follow.
Furthermore, adding French names to English links unnecessarily lengthens the link per WP:NOPIPE, another reason to stick with the English names.
I'm happy to run through the article again to try and improve the spellings, but it seems you know more about the subject than I. Specifically with regard to the Ligue my feeling is to say: Ligue (Catholic League) to explain and then use Catholic League or League thereafter. The same with Liguer, etc. Ecrm87 ( talk) 15:02, 25 June 2023 (UTC)
It has been proposed in this section that
Charles I, Cardinal de Bourbon be
renamed and moved to
Charles I de Bourbon (archbishop of Rouen). A bot will list this discussion on requested moves' current discussions subpage within an hour of this tag being placed. The discussion may be closed 7 days after being opened, if consensus has been reached (see the closing instructions). Please base arguments on article title policy, and keep discussion succinct and civil. Please use {{
subst:requested move}} . Do not use {{
requested move/dated}} directly. |
Charles I, Cardinal de Bourbon → Charles I de Bourbon (archbishop of Rouen) – There is a lot of intersection between the names Charles, the house of Bourbon and the title of cardinal. See Cardinal of Bourbon and Charles de Bourbon. The current title is confusing because this fellow was not the first cardinal of the House of Bourbon named Charles. He was the first Charles to be archbishop of Rouen. The title I propose follows the French Wikipedia. Srnec ( talk) 22:47, 2 March 2024 (UTC) — Relisting. Natg 19 ( talk) 17:17, 27 March 2024 (UTC)