Byzantine Empire under the Komnenos dynasty has been listed as one of the History good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it. | ||||||||||
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Byzantium under the Komnenoi was the
Medieval continuation of the
Roman Empire, and played a key role in the history of the
Crusades in the
Holy Land? |
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Hi Bigdaddy1204, nice work, though I think this article needs a little rough bits removed and some others added.
Apart from that it looks great. I believe we can add more detail. Its summer and believe it or not I usually have more time to edit when I am at Uni then at free time. So I can't make any promises, I might stick my head in now and again to assist.
Regards,
Tourskin 19:40, 23 July 2007 (UTC)
Thanks! I have added the link to Byzantine-Seljuk Wars. Nice article, by the way.
I must go, but I shall return soon! Bigdaddy1204 15:11, 25 July 2007 (UTC)
I have now added a large section dedicated to Andronikos, using information taken mainly from Ostrogorsky's 'History of the Byzantine state'. I will try to clear up the sections on the Angeloi and Fourth Crusade next, together with the conclusion. Bigdaddy1204 16:43, 26 July 2007 (UTC)
I have taken on Byzantium under the Komnenoi for review under the Good Article criteria, as nominated on the Good article candidates page by User:Deucalionite. You'll be pleased to hear that the article meets none of the quick-fail criteria, so I'll shortly be conducting an in-depth review and will post the results below.
Where an article is not an outright pass, but requires relatively minor additional work to be brought up to GA standard, I will normally place it on hold - meaning that editors have around a week to address any issues raised. As a precaution to prevent failure by default should this occur, if editors are likely to be unavailable over the next ten days or so, feel free to leave a message on my talk page so we can arrange a more convenient time for review. Regards, EyeSerene TALK 09:28, 26 July 2007 (UTC)
Perhaps that would be best, for now. I am going away this weekend, so I won't be able to do much more until I return on Monday evening. I think there is still some more work to be done on this article, including improving the Conclusion section, improving the references, expanding the bibliography, and tidying up minor issues such as spelling mistakes, etc. I don't think this work will take very long, but I probably won't have time to complete it until early next week. Bigdaddy1204 11:31, 27 July 2007 (UTC)
I have now reviewed this article under the six Good article criteria, and have placed it on hold pending the issues below being addressed:
Hold status gives editors up to 7 days to implement the changes requested - I'll check back here in a week, or feel free to leave me a note on my talk page if ready before that. I have fixed a few minor things myself as I was reviewing (mostly grammar to avoid word repetition and remove commentary). All the best, EyeSerene TALK 10:20, 2 August 2007 (UTC)
Congratulations on an excellent copyedit on the suggestions provided. I have no hesitation in passing Byzantium under the Komnenoi as fully meeting the standards required of a Good Article, and have listed it as such on the Good articles page (under History > World History). For the record, Bigdaddy1204 was the major contributor, with 41 edits at the date of final review. Well done! EyeSerene TALK 17:48, 2 August 2007 (UTC)
At the moment Alexios seems to appear as emperor out of nowhere, perhaps a little background to his family might be useful.
They were members of the Anatolian "military aristocracy" with their powerbase in the region of Kastamonou (Castra Comnenion) in the northern Anatolian plateau. A relative of Alexios, Isaac (his uncle?) had been emperor (aknowledged as legitimate), relatively briefly, before him and his wife was a member of the imperial Dukas dynasty. He was involved in the suppression of the the revolt of the Norman mercenary Roussel in Anatolia before he became emperor. Therfore, Alexios had a solid reputation as a general and all the important family connections to make a bid for the throne successful.
Urselius 15:06, 14 August 2007 (UTC)
"Some headings do not comply with the Manual of Style. I would recommend changing John's restoration of the empire to either John's restoration or simply Restoration; and possibly Slow recovery to Recovery"
I disagree with this change on the grounds that the original phrase was explicit - "John oversaw a restoration in the empire's fortunes" whereas the replacement phrase suggests the alternative meaning "John was restored to his throne." The latter meaning is historically untrue, John never lost his throne and was never restored.
Urselius 15:13, 14 August 2007 (UTC)
Aye! - Eye Urselius 12:41, 26 September 2007 (UTC)
This article has been reviewed as part of Wikipedia:WikiProject Good articles/Project quality task force. I believe the article currently meets the criteria and should remain listed as a Good article. The article history has been updated to reflect this review. Cheers, CP 22:42, 24 December 2007 (UTC)
Each dynasty under the Byzantine Empire has its own article, and therefore material from the article Byzantine civilisation in the twelfth century would fit in nicely here as merged material. I would hope this is agreeable... Monsieurdl mon talk 18:36, 8 November 2009 (UTC)
There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:Komnenoi which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. — RM bot 08:30, 8 November 2010 (UTC)
Somebody has again been going round multiple articles replacing the standard name "Byzantine Empire" with "Eastern Roman Empire". Let's clarify this one more time: We use the standard modern English name "Byzantine Empire", because that's what the reliable sources do. Professional historians know just as well as you and I that this empire was legally the continuation of ancient Rome, but they still choose to call it by this separate name, because they consider it sufficiently distinct in cultural and geopolitical terms to warrant such a naming practice. That's why we do the same. The insistence of some Wikipedians of "knowing it better" than the historical literature and pushing the allegedly more "correct" name in everybody's face in as many places as possible is a form of pedantry that really crosses the line into POV-pushing, "righting great wrongs". It's especially annoying when it happens across a series of sub-articles for which this terminological distinction is quite irrelevant, when on the main Byzantine empire article we've sorted things out properly for some time. This is a form of WP:COATRACK writing, hijacking an article as a vehicle to push a POV unrelated to the article's actual topic. This needs to stop. Fut.Perf. ☼ 12:19, 15 May 2019 (UTC
Energetic, able and determined, Andronikos was a true Komnenos. -- I don't think there is much evidence from the sources to suggest Andronikos was anything more than a rules-bending, power hungry criminal that eschewed responsibility and good-nature whenever it suited him. Andronikos I was the black sheep of the Komnenos family, and deserves very little praise. He destroyed the dynasty single-handedly and did heinous things to achieve his aims. I suggest this section be rewritten entirely as it paints Andronikos in such a positive light. Ambarenya13 ( talk) 04:01, 10 November 2021 (UTC)
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 03:51, 4 November 2022 (UTC)
Hi @ NeimWiki, you reverted whitout explanation the false map what you Photoshopped: 1 This is not a reliable academic map.
@ Borsoka @ Norden1990 you are really expert in medieval Hungarian topics, what is your opinion in the subject?
The lead image is a false map: Byzantine Empire 1173: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/archive/d/d2/20230625093405%214KKOMNENOS.png
This map is just a Photosopped fantasy map by an user. (This map make user seems it already spreaded everywhere this fake map.) Please check out the history of Kingdom of Hungary, King Béla III of Hungary (1172-90), the article itself show another different map for the same year 1173: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Byzantium1173.JPG, which means even the maps contradict each other in the same article.
What is the academic source of this Photohsopped map? Or any reliable academic map made by historians?
Kingdom of Hungary and Halych was never part of the Byzantine Empire, nor in 1173 during the reign of King Béla III of Hungary. I think Wikipedia is not a place for fantasy maps. We need use academic maps like this or adapt these maps: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Europe_mediterranean_1190.jpg
Background story about this Hungarian-Byzantine wars:
Saint Irene of Hungary (1088-1134) was a Byzantine empress, she was the daughter of King Saint Ladislaus I of Hungary. She was the mother of the Byzantine emperor Manuel I Komnenos.
The mother of King Géza II of Hungary was Helena of Serbia, her brother was Belos who was Ban of Croatia and Palatine of Hungary (second rank after the King).
Byzantine relations had been good with the Serbs and Hungarians since 1129, so the Serb rebellion came as a shock. The Serbs of Rascia invaded Byzantine territory in 1149. Géza II supported Rascian Belos against Manuel however the main Hungarian forces was in Halych with Géza. Manuel forced the rebellious Serbs, and their leader, Uros II (Belos brother), to vassalage (1150–1152). He then made repeated attacks upon the Hungarians with a view to annexing their territory along the Sava. Part of Manuel army occupied Zemun (part of today Belgrade), another part completely plundered Syrmia, another army led by Boris Kalamanos ravaged the Banat (He was a claimant to the Hungarian throne. King Coloman of Hungary expelled her mother from Hungary and never acknowledged that he was Boris's father). At first Belos arrived with a Hungarian army, but he did not take up the fight alone, eventually Géza arrived from Halych with the entire army. At that time the Byzantines retreated and armistice was concluded. They made this game many times in the next years.
Béla was the second son of King Géza II. Around 1161, Géza granted Béla a duchy, which included Croatia, central Dalmatia and possibly Sirmium. In accordance with a peace treaty between his elder brother, Stephen III, who succeeded their father in 1162, and the Byzantine Emperor Manuel I Komnenos, Béla moved to Constantinople in 1163. Béla, younger brother of the Hungarian king Stephen III, was sent to Constantinople to be educated in the emperor's court. He was renamed to Alexios, and received the title of despot, which had previously been applied only to the emperor himself. He was engaged to the Emperor's daughter, Maria. Manuel intended the youth to marry his daughter, Maria, and to make him his heir. Béla's patrimony caused armed conflicts between the Byzantine Empire and the Kingdom of Hungary between 1164 and 1167, because Stephen III attempted to hinder the Byzantines from taking control of Croatia, Dalmatia and Sirmium. Béla-Alexios, who was designated as Emperor Manuel's heir in 1165, took part in three Byzantine campaigns against Hungary. In 1167, Manuel sent 15,000 men under the command of Andronikos Kontostephanos against the Hungarians, scoring a decisive victory at the Battle of Sirmium and enabling the Empire to conclude a very advantageous peace with the Kingdom of Hungary by which Syrmia, Bosnia, and Dalmatia were ceded. By 1168 nearly the whole of the eastern Adriatic coast lay in Manuel's hands. In 1169, Manuel's young wife gave birth to a son, thus depriving Béla of his status as heir of the Byzantine throne. Then, in 1172, Stephen died childless, and Béla went home to take his throne and became King Béla III of Hungary. Before leaving Constantinople, he swore to Manuel that he would always "keep in mind the interests of the emperor and of the Romans". Béla III kept his word: as long as Manuel lived, he made no attempt to retrieve his Croatian inheritance, which he only afterwards reincorporated into Hungary.
Bela was the heir of Manuel, he was engaged his daugther but when Manuel had a son he lost this and he was married with emperor sister in law: Agnes of Antioch. And when the Hungarian king died Bela went to Hungary to became king, he had many local conflict because Hungarians thought he is a Byzantine spy and was called the Greek Bela. Even his brother was imprisoned and his own mother expelled by him to the Holy Land. It is not a vassal status that earlier Béla was the heir of the emperor with the engagement with his daughter. Béla himself also needed fight for the Hungarian throne at home. Manuel asked Bela to see the interest of the Byzantine empire, but this does not mean he was a vassal, Bela also sent troops to Manuel at the battle of Myriokephalon. The connection between Hungary and the empire was excellent.
Hungary had many vassal states also where the Hungarian king appointed the ruler and needed make the vassal oath, and regular taxation… The Hungarian kings did not make any vassal oath for the Byzantine emperor. Please show me any academic historical source which say Hungary was vassal state of the Byzantine empire at that time? Or any academic reliable map regarding the subject? I do not know any, in Hungarian historiography this is also unknown…
OrionNimrod ( talk) 18:28, 24 June 2023 (UTC)
I agree that this map is quite misleading. Béla III was an ally of the Byzantine Empire in the early 1170s, at most. During the 1160s war, the Byzantines seized Croatia, Dalmatia (and Bosnia). These regions were recovered by the Hungarians after Manuel's death in 1180. -- Norden1990 ( talk) 20:17, 24 June 2023 (UTC)
What about the other territories marked in lighter purple in the map, e.g. the Sultanate of Rum? I see no indication in either this article or in any of the linked related ones that it was dependent on Byzantium during the Komnenian period. Or what else is that color to signify? Fut.Perf. ☼ 19:35, 25 June 2023 (UTC)
Byzantine Empire under the Komnenos dynasty has been listed as one of the History good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it. | ||||||||||
| ||||||||||
A fact from this article appeared on Wikipedia's
Main Page in the "
Did you know?" column on
July 25, 2007. The text of the entry was: Did you know ...that
Byzantium under the Komnenoi was the
Medieval continuation of the
Roman Empire, and played a key role in the history of the
Crusades in the
Holy Land? |
This article is rated GA-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Hi Bigdaddy1204, nice work, though I think this article needs a little rough bits removed and some others added.
Apart from that it looks great. I believe we can add more detail. Its summer and believe it or not I usually have more time to edit when I am at Uni then at free time. So I can't make any promises, I might stick my head in now and again to assist.
Regards,
Tourskin 19:40, 23 July 2007 (UTC)
Thanks! I have added the link to Byzantine-Seljuk Wars. Nice article, by the way.
I must go, but I shall return soon! Bigdaddy1204 15:11, 25 July 2007 (UTC)
I have now added a large section dedicated to Andronikos, using information taken mainly from Ostrogorsky's 'History of the Byzantine state'. I will try to clear up the sections on the Angeloi and Fourth Crusade next, together with the conclusion. Bigdaddy1204 16:43, 26 July 2007 (UTC)
I have taken on Byzantium under the Komnenoi for review under the Good Article criteria, as nominated on the Good article candidates page by User:Deucalionite. You'll be pleased to hear that the article meets none of the quick-fail criteria, so I'll shortly be conducting an in-depth review and will post the results below.
Where an article is not an outright pass, but requires relatively minor additional work to be brought up to GA standard, I will normally place it on hold - meaning that editors have around a week to address any issues raised. As a precaution to prevent failure by default should this occur, if editors are likely to be unavailable over the next ten days or so, feel free to leave a message on my talk page so we can arrange a more convenient time for review. Regards, EyeSerene TALK 09:28, 26 July 2007 (UTC)
Perhaps that would be best, for now. I am going away this weekend, so I won't be able to do much more until I return on Monday evening. I think there is still some more work to be done on this article, including improving the Conclusion section, improving the references, expanding the bibliography, and tidying up minor issues such as spelling mistakes, etc. I don't think this work will take very long, but I probably won't have time to complete it until early next week. Bigdaddy1204 11:31, 27 July 2007 (UTC)
I have now reviewed this article under the six Good article criteria, and have placed it on hold pending the issues below being addressed:
Hold status gives editors up to 7 days to implement the changes requested - I'll check back here in a week, or feel free to leave me a note on my talk page if ready before that. I have fixed a few minor things myself as I was reviewing (mostly grammar to avoid word repetition and remove commentary). All the best, EyeSerene TALK 10:20, 2 August 2007 (UTC)
Congratulations on an excellent copyedit on the suggestions provided. I have no hesitation in passing Byzantium under the Komnenoi as fully meeting the standards required of a Good Article, and have listed it as such on the Good articles page (under History > World History). For the record, Bigdaddy1204 was the major contributor, with 41 edits at the date of final review. Well done! EyeSerene TALK 17:48, 2 August 2007 (UTC)
At the moment Alexios seems to appear as emperor out of nowhere, perhaps a little background to his family might be useful.
They were members of the Anatolian "military aristocracy" with their powerbase in the region of Kastamonou (Castra Comnenion) in the northern Anatolian plateau. A relative of Alexios, Isaac (his uncle?) had been emperor (aknowledged as legitimate), relatively briefly, before him and his wife was a member of the imperial Dukas dynasty. He was involved in the suppression of the the revolt of the Norman mercenary Roussel in Anatolia before he became emperor. Therfore, Alexios had a solid reputation as a general and all the important family connections to make a bid for the throne successful.
Urselius 15:06, 14 August 2007 (UTC)
"Some headings do not comply with the Manual of Style. I would recommend changing John's restoration of the empire to either John's restoration or simply Restoration; and possibly Slow recovery to Recovery"
I disagree with this change on the grounds that the original phrase was explicit - "John oversaw a restoration in the empire's fortunes" whereas the replacement phrase suggests the alternative meaning "John was restored to his throne." The latter meaning is historically untrue, John never lost his throne and was never restored.
Urselius 15:13, 14 August 2007 (UTC)
Aye! - Eye Urselius 12:41, 26 September 2007 (UTC)
This article has been reviewed as part of Wikipedia:WikiProject Good articles/Project quality task force. I believe the article currently meets the criteria and should remain listed as a Good article. The article history has been updated to reflect this review. Cheers, CP 22:42, 24 December 2007 (UTC)
Each dynasty under the Byzantine Empire has its own article, and therefore material from the article Byzantine civilisation in the twelfth century would fit in nicely here as merged material. I would hope this is agreeable... Monsieurdl mon talk 18:36, 8 November 2009 (UTC)
There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:Komnenoi which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. — RM bot 08:30, 8 November 2010 (UTC)
Somebody has again been going round multiple articles replacing the standard name "Byzantine Empire" with "Eastern Roman Empire". Let's clarify this one more time: We use the standard modern English name "Byzantine Empire", because that's what the reliable sources do. Professional historians know just as well as you and I that this empire was legally the continuation of ancient Rome, but they still choose to call it by this separate name, because they consider it sufficiently distinct in cultural and geopolitical terms to warrant such a naming practice. That's why we do the same. The insistence of some Wikipedians of "knowing it better" than the historical literature and pushing the allegedly more "correct" name in everybody's face in as many places as possible is a form of pedantry that really crosses the line into POV-pushing, "righting great wrongs". It's especially annoying when it happens across a series of sub-articles for which this terminological distinction is quite irrelevant, when on the main Byzantine empire article we've sorted things out properly for some time. This is a form of WP:COATRACK writing, hijacking an article as a vehicle to push a POV unrelated to the article's actual topic. This needs to stop. Fut.Perf. ☼ 12:19, 15 May 2019 (UTC
Energetic, able and determined, Andronikos was a true Komnenos. -- I don't think there is much evidence from the sources to suggest Andronikos was anything more than a rules-bending, power hungry criminal that eschewed responsibility and good-nature whenever it suited him. Andronikos I was the black sheep of the Komnenos family, and deserves very little praise. He destroyed the dynasty single-handedly and did heinous things to achieve his aims. I suggest this section be rewritten entirely as it paints Andronikos in such a positive light. Ambarenya13 ( talk) 04:01, 10 November 2021 (UTC)
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 03:51, 4 November 2022 (UTC)
Hi @ NeimWiki, you reverted whitout explanation the false map what you Photoshopped: 1 This is not a reliable academic map.
@ Borsoka @ Norden1990 you are really expert in medieval Hungarian topics, what is your opinion in the subject?
The lead image is a false map: Byzantine Empire 1173: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/archive/d/d2/20230625093405%214KKOMNENOS.png
This map is just a Photosopped fantasy map by an user. (This map make user seems it already spreaded everywhere this fake map.) Please check out the history of Kingdom of Hungary, King Béla III of Hungary (1172-90), the article itself show another different map for the same year 1173: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Byzantium1173.JPG, which means even the maps contradict each other in the same article.
What is the academic source of this Photohsopped map? Or any reliable academic map made by historians?
Kingdom of Hungary and Halych was never part of the Byzantine Empire, nor in 1173 during the reign of King Béla III of Hungary. I think Wikipedia is not a place for fantasy maps. We need use academic maps like this or adapt these maps: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Europe_mediterranean_1190.jpg
Background story about this Hungarian-Byzantine wars:
Saint Irene of Hungary (1088-1134) was a Byzantine empress, she was the daughter of King Saint Ladislaus I of Hungary. She was the mother of the Byzantine emperor Manuel I Komnenos.
The mother of King Géza II of Hungary was Helena of Serbia, her brother was Belos who was Ban of Croatia and Palatine of Hungary (second rank after the King).
Byzantine relations had been good with the Serbs and Hungarians since 1129, so the Serb rebellion came as a shock. The Serbs of Rascia invaded Byzantine territory in 1149. Géza II supported Rascian Belos against Manuel however the main Hungarian forces was in Halych with Géza. Manuel forced the rebellious Serbs, and their leader, Uros II (Belos brother), to vassalage (1150–1152). He then made repeated attacks upon the Hungarians with a view to annexing their territory along the Sava. Part of Manuel army occupied Zemun (part of today Belgrade), another part completely plundered Syrmia, another army led by Boris Kalamanos ravaged the Banat (He was a claimant to the Hungarian throne. King Coloman of Hungary expelled her mother from Hungary and never acknowledged that he was Boris's father). At first Belos arrived with a Hungarian army, but he did not take up the fight alone, eventually Géza arrived from Halych with the entire army. At that time the Byzantines retreated and armistice was concluded. They made this game many times in the next years.
Béla was the second son of King Géza II. Around 1161, Géza granted Béla a duchy, which included Croatia, central Dalmatia and possibly Sirmium. In accordance with a peace treaty between his elder brother, Stephen III, who succeeded their father in 1162, and the Byzantine Emperor Manuel I Komnenos, Béla moved to Constantinople in 1163. Béla, younger brother of the Hungarian king Stephen III, was sent to Constantinople to be educated in the emperor's court. He was renamed to Alexios, and received the title of despot, which had previously been applied only to the emperor himself. He was engaged to the Emperor's daughter, Maria. Manuel intended the youth to marry his daughter, Maria, and to make him his heir. Béla's patrimony caused armed conflicts between the Byzantine Empire and the Kingdom of Hungary between 1164 and 1167, because Stephen III attempted to hinder the Byzantines from taking control of Croatia, Dalmatia and Sirmium. Béla-Alexios, who was designated as Emperor Manuel's heir in 1165, took part in three Byzantine campaigns against Hungary. In 1167, Manuel sent 15,000 men under the command of Andronikos Kontostephanos against the Hungarians, scoring a decisive victory at the Battle of Sirmium and enabling the Empire to conclude a very advantageous peace with the Kingdom of Hungary by which Syrmia, Bosnia, and Dalmatia were ceded. By 1168 nearly the whole of the eastern Adriatic coast lay in Manuel's hands. In 1169, Manuel's young wife gave birth to a son, thus depriving Béla of his status as heir of the Byzantine throne. Then, in 1172, Stephen died childless, and Béla went home to take his throne and became King Béla III of Hungary. Before leaving Constantinople, he swore to Manuel that he would always "keep in mind the interests of the emperor and of the Romans". Béla III kept his word: as long as Manuel lived, he made no attempt to retrieve his Croatian inheritance, which he only afterwards reincorporated into Hungary.
Bela was the heir of Manuel, he was engaged his daugther but when Manuel had a son he lost this and he was married with emperor sister in law: Agnes of Antioch. And when the Hungarian king died Bela went to Hungary to became king, he had many local conflict because Hungarians thought he is a Byzantine spy and was called the Greek Bela. Even his brother was imprisoned and his own mother expelled by him to the Holy Land. It is not a vassal status that earlier Béla was the heir of the emperor with the engagement with his daughter. Béla himself also needed fight for the Hungarian throne at home. Manuel asked Bela to see the interest of the Byzantine empire, but this does not mean he was a vassal, Bela also sent troops to Manuel at the battle of Myriokephalon. The connection between Hungary and the empire was excellent.
Hungary had many vassal states also where the Hungarian king appointed the ruler and needed make the vassal oath, and regular taxation… The Hungarian kings did not make any vassal oath for the Byzantine emperor. Please show me any academic historical source which say Hungary was vassal state of the Byzantine empire at that time? Or any academic reliable map regarding the subject? I do not know any, in Hungarian historiography this is also unknown…
OrionNimrod ( talk) 18:28, 24 June 2023 (UTC)
I agree that this map is quite misleading. Béla III was an ally of the Byzantine Empire in the early 1170s, at most. During the 1160s war, the Byzantines seized Croatia, Dalmatia (and Bosnia). These regions were recovered by the Hungarians after Manuel's death in 1180. -- Norden1990 ( talk) 20:17, 24 June 2023 (UTC)
What about the other territories marked in lighter purple in the map, e.g. the Sultanate of Rum? I see no indication in either this article or in any of the linked related ones that it was dependent on Byzantium during the Komnenian period. Or what else is that color to signify? Fut.Perf. ☼ 19:35, 25 June 2023 (UTC)