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Does anybody know whether (or not) this ethnic group is part of the Mbunda people living in Angola and Zambia?? -- Aflis ( talk) 14:42, 1 October 2012 (UTC)
Yes, these pages do mention Mbunda and Sudan. However, SEPARATELY - it mentions the Mbunda arriving in Southern Africa and it mentions that grain cultivation was invented in Sudan. I really fail to understand how that possibly somehow says to you that "the Mbunda people come from Sudan". If you could build up a case at Bantu migrations/ Bantu migration theory about an ALTERNATIVE theory about where the Bantu peoples come from, that would be interesting. However, trying to single out the Mbunda as coming from Sudan/ Egypt, is really only working against your credibility and bona fides. You are really becoming very tiring and confirming that your motives are Mbunda-centric, whereas we work towards an encyclopedia that is as neutral and unabiased as possible. You could help by contributing your knowledge, but unfortunately you are hellbent on carving out a place in the sun for the Mbunda. After all, it is your job, so I guess I have to accept that I will never see any neutral edits out of you. You are paid to do this, unlike the rest of us who give up of our time to do this. Rui ''Gabriel'' Correia ( talk) 15:52, 13 September 2014 (UTC)
@ Rui Gabriel Correia: Emerging slowly from a long spell of health problems, I am returning to, i.a., the Mbunda articles in which I became interested more than a year ago. Here I should like to try and clarify a bit the situation that gave rise to the above controversy. The point is that Nandula Libingi and his group have carried out most impressive research among Mbunda elders about whate these "know" about the Mbunda and especially their history. The main results have been published in a book edited by the (British? American?) anthropologist Robert Papstein. The problem is that these oral history sources are by the group considered as infallible, and what they say as a kind of reveiled truth. Now, as historians are well aware, oral traditions are almost never reliable, at least not entirely, and thus can thus not be used as trustworthy sources. What the can is suggest alleys for historical research based on other sources. Thus the question is not one of the group being deliberately biased in favour of Mbunda grandeur, and much less of their being paid for such a "job", but it is one of a fundamental methodological error. Which leads i.a. to the baffling assertion you are pointing out: the Mbunda oral traditions has it that they originally come from the Sudan, but this flatly contradicts everything the long standing historical research on the Bantu migrations has found out until today....Now, what is the best way to go about this situation. I confess I am somewhat uncomfortable with the radical way in which you have now cut out a long paragraph on the origina of the Mbunda. My feeling is that this kind auf "cleaning" is goint too far. I would prefer to maintain that text, changing perhaps some of its wording, and specifying that the information is given by oral tradition. In this manner, oral tradition can be put to use as a suggestion for historical research. De acordo? Aflis ( talk) 12:34, 13 May 2015 (UTC)
@ Aflis: You might also at your leisure compare the infoboxes for Mbunda language and Mpuono language spoken by the Bunda of the DRC. I do believe these speak for themselves. Rui ''Gabriel'' Correia ( talk) 16:20, 13 May 2015 (UTC)
.. Rui ''Gabriel'' Correia ( talk) I am supprised you are mixing Mbunda language or Mpuono language and Mbunda people and Bunda people. You are supposed to know that better. Even the Mbunda spoken in Angola and Zambia by the same Mbunda people is not the same. So you cannot conclude therefore that because the Mbunda people of Angola and Congo speak different languages, then they are not from the same origin. Ndandulalibingi ( talk) 19:22, 13 May 2015 (UTC)
Ndandulalibingi, you are the one who is confused - you are the one who filled the page about the Bunda with information about the Mbunda. Must I pull up the history for you, or could you look it up by yourself? 19:29, 13 May 2015 (UTC)
.. Rui ''Gabriel'' Correia ( talk) Pull it up!!!! You know nothing about the Mbunda, the Lunda, the Bemba, the Luvale and others that they originate from KOla, in the now Congo. The Portuguese had no interest in the history of the Eastern part now Angola, until the early 1900s. Who could have researched the history you claim to pull out. Respect other researchers. Robert Papstern is a respected researcher than you, he has done a lot to bring out the history of these ethnicity. What have you done? Pull it out men!!! The source René Pélissier was inroduced by Aflis not me. Let us be factual, the Bantu migration or expansion remains a debatable issue. Don't you that? Ndandulalibingi ( talk) 20:06, 13 May 2015 (UTC)
Hi Aflis. I find it extremely odd that you seem to be confused about the difference between Mbunda and Bunda, when you yourself added a note to this effect, alerting readers to the fact that there are different languages. Please see your edit here in the Portuguese Wikipedia. Except that the spelling of the two is diffent and the reference to Ethnologue is wrong - either your error or theirs, as they also had it all mixed up, but have since corrected it. Regrads, Rui ''Gabriel'' Correia ( talk) 07:59, 14 May 2015 (UTC)
This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||
|
Does anybody know whether (or not) this ethnic group is part of the Mbunda people living in Angola and Zambia?? -- Aflis ( talk) 14:42, 1 October 2012 (UTC)
Yes, these pages do mention Mbunda and Sudan. However, SEPARATELY - it mentions the Mbunda arriving in Southern Africa and it mentions that grain cultivation was invented in Sudan. I really fail to understand how that possibly somehow says to you that "the Mbunda people come from Sudan". If you could build up a case at Bantu migrations/ Bantu migration theory about an ALTERNATIVE theory about where the Bantu peoples come from, that would be interesting. However, trying to single out the Mbunda as coming from Sudan/ Egypt, is really only working against your credibility and bona fides. You are really becoming very tiring and confirming that your motives are Mbunda-centric, whereas we work towards an encyclopedia that is as neutral and unabiased as possible. You could help by contributing your knowledge, but unfortunately you are hellbent on carving out a place in the sun for the Mbunda. After all, it is your job, so I guess I have to accept that I will never see any neutral edits out of you. You are paid to do this, unlike the rest of us who give up of our time to do this. Rui ''Gabriel'' Correia ( talk) 15:52, 13 September 2014 (UTC)
@ Rui Gabriel Correia: Emerging slowly from a long spell of health problems, I am returning to, i.a., the Mbunda articles in which I became interested more than a year ago. Here I should like to try and clarify a bit the situation that gave rise to the above controversy. The point is that Nandula Libingi and his group have carried out most impressive research among Mbunda elders about whate these "know" about the Mbunda and especially their history. The main results have been published in a book edited by the (British? American?) anthropologist Robert Papstein. The problem is that these oral history sources are by the group considered as infallible, and what they say as a kind of reveiled truth. Now, as historians are well aware, oral traditions are almost never reliable, at least not entirely, and thus can thus not be used as trustworthy sources. What the can is suggest alleys for historical research based on other sources. Thus the question is not one of the group being deliberately biased in favour of Mbunda grandeur, and much less of their being paid for such a "job", but it is one of a fundamental methodological error. Which leads i.a. to the baffling assertion you are pointing out: the Mbunda oral traditions has it that they originally come from the Sudan, but this flatly contradicts everything the long standing historical research on the Bantu migrations has found out until today....Now, what is the best way to go about this situation. I confess I am somewhat uncomfortable with the radical way in which you have now cut out a long paragraph on the origina of the Mbunda. My feeling is that this kind auf "cleaning" is goint too far. I would prefer to maintain that text, changing perhaps some of its wording, and specifying that the information is given by oral tradition. In this manner, oral tradition can be put to use as a suggestion for historical research. De acordo? Aflis ( talk) 12:34, 13 May 2015 (UTC)
@ Aflis: You might also at your leisure compare the infoboxes for Mbunda language and Mpuono language spoken by the Bunda of the DRC. I do believe these speak for themselves. Rui ''Gabriel'' Correia ( talk) 16:20, 13 May 2015 (UTC)
.. Rui ''Gabriel'' Correia ( talk) I am supprised you are mixing Mbunda language or Mpuono language and Mbunda people and Bunda people. You are supposed to know that better. Even the Mbunda spoken in Angola and Zambia by the same Mbunda people is not the same. So you cannot conclude therefore that because the Mbunda people of Angola and Congo speak different languages, then they are not from the same origin. Ndandulalibingi ( talk) 19:22, 13 May 2015 (UTC)
Ndandulalibingi, you are the one who is confused - you are the one who filled the page about the Bunda with information about the Mbunda. Must I pull up the history for you, or could you look it up by yourself? 19:29, 13 May 2015 (UTC)
.. Rui ''Gabriel'' Correia ( talk) Pull it up!!!! You know nothing about the Mbunda, the Lunda, the Bemba, the Luvale and others that they originate from KOla, in the now Congo. The Portuguese had no interest in the history of the Eastern part now Angola, until the early 1900s. Who could have researched the history you claim to pull out. Respect other researchers. Robert Papstern is a respected researcher than you, he has done a lot to bring out the history of these ethnicity. What have you done? Pull it out men!!! The source René Pélissier was inroduced by Aflis not me. Let us be factual, the Bantu migration or expansion remains a debatable issue. Don't you that? Ndandulalibingi ( talk) 20:06, 13 May 2015 (UTC)
Hi Aflis. I find it extremely odd that you seem to be confused about the difference between Mbunda and Bunda, when you yourself added a note to this effect, alerting readers to the fact that there are different languages. Please see your edit here in the Portuguese Wikipedia. Except that the spelling of the two is diffent and the reference to Ethnologue is wrong - either your error or theirs, as they also had it all mixed up, but have since corrected it. Regrads, Rui ''Gabriel'' Correia ( talk) 07:59, 14 May 2015 (UTC)