This page is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
@
BaiulyQz: you added again
diff info to the intro of the worldview section, with a number of references at the end without pagenumbers. This info hardly suffices as an intro to this section, and the references can't be verified without pagenumbers. The statement believing that consciousness continues after death
is contentious, and needs very good sourcing. Likewise or worse, {{tq|within one of the six realms of existence, or afterlife within intermediate [[Spirit world (Spiritualism)|spirit worlds]] is untenable.
Joshua Jonathan -
Let's talk! 15:37, 18 September 2022 (UTC)
Would you help to improve my previous paragraph and its citation style, so we can include it? Perhaps like that:
[1] Buddhism encompasses a variety of traditions, beliefs, and spiritual practices that are largely based on the Buddha's teachings and their resulting interpreted philosophies. [5] [6] [2] Buddhist teaching generally views life and death as a continuum, believing that consciousness continues after death, although specific views vary widely across Buddhist cultures and societies. [7] [8] [9] [10] [3] It is generally believed that aspects (or traits) of one's consciousness may be reborn in the desire realms ( Six Paths) or individual existence in an intermediate state between lives. [11] [4] The goal of Buddhism is to overcome the unease ( duḥkha) caused by desire ( taṇhā) and ignorance ( avidyā) of reality's true nature, including impermanence ( anitya) and non-self ( anātman). [12] [13] [14] [5] By attaining enlightenment (Buddhahood), one can free himself from being bound to the earthly or desire realms and exist beyond these, in the "paradisical Pure land", an individual abode of a buddha or bodhisattva." [15] [16]
References
Selves
was invoked but never defined (see the
help page).What do you think about this summary? :) BaiulyQz ( talk) 19:45, 18 September 2022 (UTC)
-
-
[It also looks at more particular instances of] afterlife beliefs, such as the possibilities for rebirth in the desire realms, paradisiacal Pure Lands, and the intermediate state between lives described in Tibetan texts about the bardos.
It is generally believed that aspects (or traits) of one's consciousness may be reborn in the desire realms ( Six Paths) or individual existence in an intermediate state between lives.
By attaining enlightenment (Buddhahood), one can free himself from being bound to the earthly or desire realms and exist beyond these, in the "paradisical Pure land", an individual abode of a buddha or bodhisattva." [1] [2]
References
References
For example, Buddhists now form 2.4% of religious affiliations in Australia/ https://www.abs.gov.au/articles/religious-affiliation-australia#:~:text=Religious%20affiliation%20in%202021,-In%202021%2C%20more&text=Christianity%20(43.9%25),Hinduism%20(2.7%25) Sdrol1 ( talk) 20:58, 18 November 2022 (UTC)
Way to long to digest 84.203.42.136 ( talk) 20:08, 28 November 2022 (UTC)
If you want to know about Buddhism, ask the Dalai Lama. He will be happy to explain the subtle points which baffle scholars. Since none of the Dalai Lama's books appear in the references, nor anyone with a Geshe degree, this article is speculative at best, bordering on fiction. Authoritative it is not. Hpfeil ( talk) 20:40, 30 January 2023 (UTC)
This
edit request to
Buddhism has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Please restore the original article. An annonymous user recently edited the article and posted misleading information on the main page. He edited that Buddhism is a "Nepali religion" and that it originated in "Lumbini". This is totally wrong according the factual evidence. Buddha was born in Nepal but he first began teaching in Sarnath, India. Buddhism reached Nepal via Indian missionaries from king Ashoka. Buddhism did NOT exist until Buddha was 35 years old, when he gave his first lecture in Sarnath. This "annonymous" person is likely a Chinese person, whose government sponsors such revisionism. This single edit cannot change what has been accepted by scholars for centuries. This person did not even change the source. Please see [4]. It is the exact same as the previous version. He is not using any evidence at all. He is being academically dishonest. Please, Please take this message seriously and make the appropriate change immediately. I trust the Wikipedia members to remain honest and to act accordingly. StanleyRS ( talk) 22:25, 27 March 2023 (UTC)
The redirect Buddhism and other religions has been listed at redirects for discussion to determine whether its use and function meets the redirect guidelines. Readers of this page are welcome to comment on this redirect at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2023 April 4 § Buddhism and other religions until a consensus is reached. Steel1943 ( talk) 22:55, 4 April 2023 (UTC)
Dharmachakra, the wheel of samsara depicts the circular nature of sansara. Therefore it should be like the cart wheel not like the ship steering wheel. Harshana.nadeeshan ( talk) 04:07, 15 April 2023 (UTC)
Well, Buddhist call themselves Buddha's followers or in Pali Language as Buddha Sravaka - listeners of Buddha. The reason is if anyone wants to be a Buddhist, then he/she should follow Buddha's guidance in lay life and practice toward liberation from the concept of self. So their lifestyles also will have to change accordingly. Those who decided to embrace monkhood are called Buddha Putra — Son of Buddha. Ask if more info is needed. Good luck.
Via Quora LWCV amd SD M 2600:1700:1D00:9390:B075:54FF:FEC8:DE60 ( talk) 23:11, 1 July 2023 (UTC)
@ Joshua Jonathan: @ Kautilya3: Hi. It says it originated in present day North India but the region where Buddha lived and thought his entire life - Bihar state - is not even part of North India according to North India article map...Why not simply add Ancient India? It makes more sense.
It is also important to note that Sramanas came from all parts of ancient India (even according to greek sources : Śramaṇa#Porphyry_(233–305) :- "All the Bramins originate from one stock; for all of them are derived from one father and one mother. But the Samanaeans are not the offspring of one family, being, as we have said, collected from every nation of Indians." ).
For example ;- notable Sramana like Makkhali Gosala was from Thirupattur (in modern day Tamil Nadu state). 117.198.115.210 ( talk) 07:24, 14 August 2023 (UTC)
@ SmoovOpr8r: you added the following text to the lead diff:
Buddhism primarily concerns the cultivation of the sotereological mental state named 'Awakening', commonly referred to as 'enlightenment', 'Nirvana', or 'Liberation', which is a unique, cognitive event broadly characterized as delineating the culmination of sati, also known as mindfulness. [1] 'Awakening' generally designates the onset of a permanent, elucidating metawareness of one's mental contents that is accompanied by the Anattā insight. [2] The central thesis of Buddhism is Siddhartha Gautama's diagnosis that the vast majority of humanity has not yet Awakened, and that this collective condition is the root cause of suffering. Awakening is the perscribed antidote to this suffering. [3] [4] The Buddha, which translates as 'the Awakened one', is eponymously named after this mental state, and the religion is eponymously named after this namesake. [5]
References
As a starter: this is not a summary of the article, but extensive new content, which should not be in the lead in this way. But the text itself has also some shortcomings:
"Awakening" is not a goal in itself, as some trophy to be gained; it's a reference to the release from excessive clinging and craving; this release is called awakening. As an additional note: summarizing the Buddhist worldview seems simple, but is a hell of a job; few editors, even those highly knowledgeable about the topic, have dared to burn their hands on it in this overview-article... Joshua Jonathan - Let's talk! 06:12, 22 August 2023 (UTC)
This
edit request to
Buddhism has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
buddhism is a religion origineted from nepal 2404:7C00:4A:207C:F6F9:649D:33FD:FB0C ( talk) 05:54, 25 August 2023 (UTC)
Concerns these additions and their subsequent removal.
I have several criticisms of this page's introduction. Firstly, it doesn't even mention the name ' Siddhartha Gautama'. It also makes no mention of the mental state of ' Awakening'. It also fails to even briefly discuss the central thesis of Buddhism: Four Noble Truths. It also fails to mention that 'Buddha' means 'the Awakened one', like other, less-salient, pages do, such as ' Outline of Buddhism'. Visitors that are new to Buddhism seeking a concise introduction at the page as it is now, will be, at best, left with a vague impression of Buddhism's characteristic tenets that instead downplays and disparages the psychological/phenomenological aspect of Buddhism that is quintessential to it. This is an encyclopedic disservice; this is what I was trying to correct before my edits were reverted.
Furthermore, by comparison to other major world religion pages, which all offer a brief explication of the central thesis of each respective religion and a brief background of their respective founders' role in the religion, this Buddhist page is inadequate. For example, the Christianity page explicitly states the religion's central thesis: that Jesus Christ is the messiah as prophesied in its antecedent religion, Judaism. The Islam page explains the religion's central tenets: Islam is the main and final Abrahamic religion, Muhammad is the main and final Abrahamic prophet, the Quran is its main and final canonical text, and that God (Allah) is one and incomparable.
My suggestions are:
1. Mention the name '
Siddhartha Gautama' in the first paragraph.
2. Include a concise explication of Buddhism's central thesis (Four Noble Truths) circa the second paragraph in a manner that is informative to a general reader without prior background in Buddhism.
3. Include a concise mention of the identity of the Buddha in Buddhism as 'the Awakened one'. This should include a concise mention of how the
cognitive event of 'Awakening' is characterized and its fundamental characterizations (e.g. irreversibility, uniqueness, singularity (occurring once), mindfulness proficiency,
Anattā insight etc.)
4. Include that 'The Buddha', which translates as 'the Awakened one', is eponymously named after this mental state, and the religion is eponymously named after this
namesake. (This is akin to how it is explained that
Hindu is an exonym on its page)
Thoughts? SmoovOpr8r ( talk) 19:25, 21 August 2023 (UTC)
Joshua Jonathan Hi Joshua. Good to see you again after a long time. I would like to add information related to the recent discovery of a Buddha statue along with a Sanskrit inscription and a few Indian coins in Egypt. I have noticed that you undid my addition about that. Would you mind adding that info as per Wikipedia regulations? Buddhism spreading to such farther areas in the known world is worthy to mention on the page. You may do so as per your wish. Take care. Bsskchaitanya ( talk) 19:56, 2 May 2023 (UTC)
The first line of the lead section says that Buddhism is called Buddha Dharma or Dharmavinaya in Sanskrit. I have never heard of Dharmavinaya and it is not mentioned anywhere else in the article. Is there any source to support such a name? Æo ( talk) 11:43, 3 October 2023 (UTC)
I have moved over 50 works into "Further reading" as they are not being used as citations. The section is now huge. For guidance on what, if anything, should be included see Wikipedia:Further reading. Someone familiar with the subject should give it an extensive prune. DuncanHill ( talk) 13:08, 13 October 2023 (UTC)
This page is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
@
BaiulyQz: you added again
diff info to the intro of the worldview section, with a number of references at the end without pagenumbers. This info hardly suffices as an intro to this section, and the references can't be verified without pagenumbers. The statement believing that consciousness continues after death
is contentious, and needs very good sourcing. Likewise or worse, {{tq|within one of the six realms of existence, or afterlife within intermediate [[Spirit world (Spiritualism)|spirit worlds]] is untenable.
Joshua Jonathan -
Let's talk! 15:37, 18 September 2022 (UTC)
Would you help to improve my previous paragraph and its citation style, so we can include it? Perhaps like that:
[1] Buddhism encompasses a variety of traditions, beliefs, and spiritual practices that are largely based on the Buddha's teachings and their resulting interpreted philosophies. [5] [6] [2] Buddhist teaching generally views life and death as a continuum, believing that consciousness continues after death, although specific views vary widely across Buddhist cultures and societies. [7] [8] [9] [10] [3] It is generally believed that aspects (or traits) of one's consciousness may be reborn in the desire realms ( Six Paths) or individual existence in an intermediate state between lives. [11] [4] The goal of Buddhism is to overcome the unease ( duḥkha) caused by desire ( taṇhā) and ignorance ( avidyā) of reality's true nature, including impermanence ( anitya) and non-self ( anātman). [12] [13] [14] [5] By attaining enlightenment (Buddhahood), one can free himself from being bound to the earthly or desire realms and exist beyond these, in the "paradisical Pure land", an individual abode of a buddha or bodhisattva." [15] [16]
References
Selves
was invoked but never defined (see the
help page).What do you think about this summary? :) BaiulyQz ( talk) 19:45, 18 September 2022 (UTC)
-
-
[It also looks at more particular instances of] afterlife beliefs, such as the possibilities for rebirth in the desire realms, paradisiacal Pure Lands, and the intermediate state between lives described in Tibetan texts about the bardos.
It is generally believed that aspects (or traits) of one's consciousness may be reborn in the desire realms ( Six Paths) or individual existence in an intermediate state between lives.
By attaining enlightenment (Buddhahood), one can free himself from being bound to the earthly or desire realms and exist beyond these, in the "paradisical Pure land", an individual abode of a buddha or bodhisattva." [1] [2]
References
References
For example, Buddhists now form 2.4% of religious affiliations in Australia/ https://www.abs.gov.au/articles/religious-affiliation-australia#:~:text=Religious%20affiliation%20in%202021,-In%202021%2C%20more&text=Christianity%20(43.9%25),Hinduism%20(2.7%25) Sdrol1 ( talk) 20:58, 18 November 2022 (UTC)
Way to long to digest 84.203.42.136 ( talk) 20:08, 28 November 2022 (UTC)
If you want to know about Buddhism, ask the Dalai Lama. He will be happy to explain the subtle points which baffle scholars. Since none of the Dalai Lama's books appear in the references, nor anyone with a Geshe degree, this article is speculative at best, bordering on fiction. Authoritative it is not. Hpfeil ( talk) 20:40, 30 January 2023 (UTC)
This
edit request to
Buddhism has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Please restore the original article. An annonymous user recently edited the article and posted misleading information on the main page. He edited that Buddhism is a "Nepali religion" and that it originated in "Lumbini". This is totally wrong according the factual evidence. Buddha was born in Nepal but he first began teaching in Sarnath, India. Buddhism reached Nepal via Indian missionaries from king Ashoka. Buddhism did NOT exist until Buddha was 35 years old, when he gave his first lecture in Sarnath. This "annonymous" person is likely a Chinese person, whose government sponsors such revisionism. This single edit cannot change what has been accepted by scholars for centuries. This person did not even change the source. Please see [4]. It is the exact same as the previous version. He is not using any evidence at all. He is being academically dishonest. Please, Please take this message seriously and make the appropriate change immediately. I trust the Wikipedia members to remain honest and to act accordingly. StanleyRS ( talk) 22:25, 27 March 2023 (UTC)
The redirect Buddhism and other religions has been listed at redirects for discussion to determine whether its use and function meets the redirect guidelines. Readers of this page are welcome to comment on this redirect at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2023 April 4 § Buddhism and other religions until a consensus is reached. Steel1943 ( talk) 22:55, 4 April 2023 (UTC)
Dharmachakra, the wheel of samsara depicts the circular nature of sansara. Therefore it should be like the cart wheel not like the ship steering wheel. Harshana.nadeeshan ( talk) 04:07, 15 April 2023 (UTC)
Well, Buddhist call themselves Buddha's followers or in Pali Language as Buddha Sravaka - listeners of Buddha. The reason is if anyone wants to be a Buddhist, then he/she should follow Buddha's guidance in lay life and practice toward liberation from the concept of self. So their lifestyles also will have to change accordingly. Those who decided to embrace monkhood are called Buddha Putra — Son of Buddha. Ask if more info is needed. Good luck.
Via Quora LWCV amd SD M 2600:1700:1D00:9390:B075:54FF:FEC8:DE60 ( talk) 23:11, 1 July 2023 (UTC)
@ Joshua Jonathan: @ Kautilya3: Hi. It says it originated in present day North India but the region where Buddha lived and thought his entire life - Bihar state - is not even part of North India according to North India article map...Why not simply add Ancient India? It makes more sense.
It is also important to note that Sramanas came from all parts of ancient India (even according to greek sources : Śramaṇa#Porphyry_(233–305) :- "All the Bramins originate from one stock; for all of them are derived from one father and one mother. But the Samanaeans are not the offspring of one family, being, as we have said, collected from every nation of Indians." ).
For example ;- notable Sramana like Makkhali Gosala was from Thirupattur (in modern day Tamil Nadu state). 117.198.115.210 ( talk) 07:24, 14 August 2023 (UTC)
@ SmoovOpr8r: you added the following text to the lead diff:
Buddhism primarily concerns the cultivation of the sotereological mental state named 'Awakening', commonly referred to as 'enlightenment', 'Nirvana', or 'Liberation', which is a unique, cognitive event broadly characterized as delineating the culmination of sati, also known as mindfulness. [1] 'Awakening' generally designates the onset of a permanent, elucidating metawareness of one's mental contents that is accompanied by the Anattā insight. [2] The central thesis of Buddhism is Siddhartha Gautama's diagnosis that the vast majority of humanity has not yet Awakened, and that this collective condition is the root cause of suffering. Awakening is the perscribed antidote to this suffering. [3] [4] The Buddha, which translates as 'the Awakened one', is eponymously named after this mental state, and the religion is eponymously named after this namesake. [5]
References
As a starter: this is not a summary of the article, but extensive new content, which should not be in the lead in this way. But the text itself has also some shortcomings:
"Awakening" is not a goal in itself, as some trophy to be gained; it's a reference to the release from excessive clinging and craving; this release is called awakening. As an additional note: summarizing the Buddhist worldview seems simple, but is a hell of a job; few editors, even those highly knowledgeable about the topic, have dared to burn their hands on it in this overview-article... Joshua Jonathan - Let's talk! 06:12, 22 August 2023 (UTC)
This
edit request to
Buddhism has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
buddhism is a religion origineted from nepal 2404:7C00:4A:207C:F6F9:649D:33FD:FB0C ( talk) 05:54, 25 August 2023 (UTC)
Concerns these additions and their subsequent removal.
I have several criticisms of this page's introduction. Firstly, it doesn't even mention the name ' Siddhartha Gautama'. It also makes no mention of the mental state of ' Awakening'. It also fails to even briefly discuss the central thesis of Buddhism: Four Noble Truths. It also fails to mention that 'Buddha' means 'the Awakened one', like other, less-salient, pages do, such as ' Outline of Buddhism'. Visitors that are new to Buddhism seeking a concise introduction at the page as it is now, will be, at best, left with a vague impression of Buddhism's characteristic tenets that instead downplays and disparages the psychological/phenomenological aspect of Buddhism that is quintessential to it. This is an encyclopedic disservice; this is what I was trying to correct before my edits were reverted.
Furthermore, by comparison to other major world religion pages, which all offer a brief explication of the central thesis of each respective religion and a brief background of their respective founders' role in the religion, this Buddhist page is inadequate. For example, the Christianity page explicitly states the religion's central thesis: that Jesus Christ is the messiah as prophesied in its antecedent religion, Judaism. The Islam page explains the religion's central tenets: Islam is the main and final Abrahamic religion, Muhammad is the main and final Abrahamic prophet, the Quran is its main and final canonical text, and that God (Allah) is one and incomparable.
My suggestions are:
1. Mention the name '
Siddhartha Gautama' in the first paragraph.
2. Include a concise explication of Buddhism's central thesis (Four Noble Truths) circa the second paragraph in a manner that is informative to a general reader without prior background in Buddhism.
3. Include a concise mention of the identity of the Buddha in Buddhism as 'the Awakened one'. This should include a concise mention of how the
cognitive event of 'Awakening' is characterized and its fundamental characterizations (e.g. irreversibility, uniqueness, singularity (occurring once), mindfulness proficiency,
Anattā insight etc.)
4. Include that 'The Buddha', which translates as 'the Awakened one', is eponymously named after this mental state, and the religion is eponymously named after this
namesake. (This is akin to how it is explained that
Hindu is an exonym on its page)
Thoughts? SmoovOpr8r ( talk) 19:25, 21 August 2023 (UTC)
Joshua Jonathan Hi Joshua. Good to see you again after a long time. I would like to add information related to the recent discovery of a Buddha statue along with a Sanskrit inscription and a few Indian coins in Egypt. I have noticed that you undid my addition about that. Would you mind adding that info as per Wikipedia regulations? Buddhism spreading to such farther areas in the known world is worthy to mention on the page. You may do so as per your wish. Take care. Bsskchaitanya ( talk) 19:56, 2 May 2023 (UTC)
The first line of the lead section says that Buddhism is called Buddha Dharma or Dharmavinaya in Sanskrit. I have never heard of Dharmavinaya and it is not mentioned anywhere else in the article. Is there any source to support such a name? Æo ( talk) 11:43, 3 October 2023 (UTC)
I have moved over 50 works into "Further reading" as they are not being used as citations. The section is now huge. For guidance on what, if anything, should be included see Wikipedia:Further reading. Someone familiar with the subject should give it an extensive prune. DuncanHill ( talk) 13:08, 13 October 2023 (UTC)