This article is within the scope of WikiProject United States, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of topics relating to the
United States of America on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the ongoing discussions.
This article is within the
scope of the WikiProject Law Enforcement. Please
Join,
Create, and
Assess.Law EnforcementWikipedia:WikiProject Law EnforcementTemplate:WikiProject Law EnforcementLaw enforcement articles
This article has not yet received a rating on the
importance scale.
Requested move 28 May 2015
The following discussion is an archived discussion of a
requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.
Moved to
Boston Municipal Protective Services. There is clear support for a page move, as the current title is highly ambiguous. The preferred target is a bit less clear, but Boston Municipal Protective Services appears to be the least bad option (and one reasonably reflected in sources). As for the redirect target for
City Hall Security, I would suggest adding a section to
Seat of local government (to which
City Hall redirects) indicating that city halls tend to have a security presence, either drawn from the local police, or specific to the building.
bd2412T 18:01, 25 June 2015 (UTC)reply
According to its website it has now been renamed City Hall Security. --
Necrothesp (
talk) 13:05, 29 May 2015 (UTC)reply
SupportMunicipal Protective Services (Boston) or similar. "Municipal Protective Services", plural, is the name used by Boston government websites and probably what the agency is called in general. However, "municipal protective services" also seems to be a generic classification used in vocational listings and the like to refer to this occupation generally. While we don't have another article with that title, disambiguation is preferable.
209.211.131.181 (
talk) 23:08, 28 May 2015 (UTC)reply
Support per nom. Does appear to now be called City Hall Security according to its own website, but this is indeed far too ambiguous. --
Necrothesp (
talk) 13:05, 29 May 2015 (UTC)reply
Support: There are very many town halls and city halls, and many of them have security services.
Anthony Appleyard (
talk) 05:03, 30 May 2015 (UTC)reply
Except that they don't actually seem to use that name any more! Why would we move to a name that isn't actually used? --
Necrothesp (
talk) 07:42, 5 June 2015 (UTC)reply
"They", the official documents authored by their PR people, don't, but everybody else, including their staff, does. And outside of Boston, the official name is so unrecognizable it needs unnatural disambiguation. --
SmokeyJoe (
talk) 05:11, 6 June 2015 (UTC)reply
Sources that use "Boston Municipal Protective Services" and do not use "City Hall Security" include:
The above sources show that the previous official name remains the accepted name.
Searching for sources using "City Hall Security" are confounded by the extreme ambiguity of the phrase, the phrase being used in association with many unrelated subjects. --
SmokeyJoe (
talk) 11:01, 21 June 2015 (UTC)reply
But, should I not be agreed with on my preference, the proposal is less bad than the current title. --
SmokeyJoe (
talk) 11:03, 21 June 2015 (UTC)reply
Oppose What are we going to do with the previous title? If there are other notable topics by this name, where are they? --
BDD (
talk) 15:31, 11 June 2015 (UTC)reply
Other cities (Toronto) have "City Hall Security"s, and lots of places have city halls and security for the city halls. Leaving this article at this title doesn't solve the problem of it being unrecognizable non Boston municipal readers, and it being ambiguous. The title, the redirect left after renaming, would be best deleted so that any attempt to go straight to the exact title will invoke the search engine. If that doesn't work, redirect and list
Boston Municipal Protective Services at
City Hall (disambiguation). Simply redirecting to
Boston Municipal Protective Services is also reasonable. "City Hall" is an arcane terminology used without widely accepted meaning, sometimes used for trivial fashion reasons. --
SmokeyJoe (
talk) 23:17, 14 June 2015 (UTC)reply
Support per the aboves, either CHS (Boston) or MPS (Boston) or Boston CHS or Boston MPS choices works for me. Per SmokeyJoe, the current title does not work. --
70.51.203.69 (
talk) 12:15, 18 June 2015 (UTC)reply
Oppose. There are no other articles to disambiguate this from, which leaves us in the situation where the base name would redirect to the longer, disambiguated name. If the department has another common name, let's see the evidence for it.--
Cúchullaint/
c 18:29, 18 June 2015 (UTC)reply
There are many usages of "city hall security" not related to this subject. The common name for this subject appears to be the previous official name. The redirect should be deleted so that searchers encounter search engine results. --
SmokeyJoe (
talk) 11:01, 21 June 2015 (UTC)reply
I'm not seeing any that have Wikipedia articles that would compete for the title "City Hall Security". And we really shouldn't be deleting any reasonable redirect. As far as the common name goes, when did the name change occur? We really need to see how sources have treated the subject since then.--
Cúchullaint/
c 14:10, 22 June 2015 (UTC)reply
Opppose per Cuchullain. However, I'm open to SmokeyJoe's suggestion of
Boston Municipal Protective Services if it can be shown that is the common name in independent reliable sources.
Jenks24 (
talk) 11:22, 20 June 2015 (UTC)reply
Some sources added above. There are few sources, with this department, spun out of the police to provide more narrowly defined security is not very news or study worthy. --
SmokeyJoe (
talk) 11:01, 21 June 2015 (UTC)reply
Thanks. My new !vote is move to
Boston Municipal Protective Services per the sources provided by SmokeyJoe. To be clear though, I still oppose the initial proposed title.
Jenks24 (
talk) 14:59, 22 June 2015 (UTC)reply
Support, current name is misleading.
Cavarrone 11:49, 21 June 2015 (UTC)reply
Cavarrone, won't "City Hall Security" redirecting to the new title also be misleading? --
BDD (
talk) 13:59, 22 June 2015 (UTC)reply
Yes, it should go away IMO, but let's take one thing at a time.
Cavarrone 14:13, 22 June 2015 (UTC)reply
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a
requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.
Post-move comments
Thanks to
BD2412 for what I think was a very sensible close. But I would just like to strongly suggest someone does not edit
Seat of local government as described in the close, unless he or she can back it up with good sourcing. Most city halls have security forces? Says who? There are some pretty tiny cities out there. --
BDD (
talk) 18:41, 25 June 2015 (UTC)reply
Of course, any addition should be sourced. I would also point out that a city hall need not have a dedicated "security force" to have "security" of some kind.
bd2412T 18:51, 25 June 2015 (UTC)reply
This article is within the scope of WikiProject United States, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of topics relating to the
United States of America on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the ongoing discussions.
This article is within the
scope of the WikiProject Law Enforcement. Please
Join,
Create, and
Assess.Law EnforcementWikipedia:WikiProject Law EnforcementTemplate:WikiProject Law EnforcementLaw enforcement articles
This article has not yet received a rating on the
importance scale.
Requested move 28 May 2015
The following discussion is an archived discussion of a
requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.
Moved to
Boston Municipal Protective Services. There is clear support for a page move, as the current title is highly ambiguous. The preferred target is a bit less clear, but Boston Municipal Protective Services appears to be the least bad option (and one reasonably reflected in sources). As for the redirect target for
City Hall Security, I would suggest adding a section to
Seat of local government (to which
City Hall redirects) indicating that city halls tend to have a security presence, either drawn from the local police, or specific to the building.
bd2412T 18:01, 25 June 2015 (UTC)reply
According to its website it has now been renamed City Hall Security. --
Necrothesp (
talk) 13:05, 29 May 2015 (UTC)reply
SupportMunicipal Protective Services (Boston) or similar. "Municipal Protective Services", plural, is the name used by Boston government websites and probably what the agency is called in general. However, "municipal protective services" also seems to be a generic classification used in vocational listings and the like to refer to this occupation generally. While we don't have another article with that title, disambiguation is preferable.
209.211.131.181 (
talk) 23:08, 28 May 2015 (UTC)reply
Support per nom. Does appear to now be called City Hall Security according to its own website, but this is indeed far too ambiguous. --
Necrothesp (
talk) 13:05, 29 May 2015 (UTC)reply
Support: There are very many town halls and city halls, and many of them have security services.
Anthony Appleyard (
talk) 05:03, 30 May 2015 (UTC)reply
Except that they don't actually seem to use that name any more! Why would we move to a name that isn't actually used? --
Necrothesp (
talk) 07:42, 5 June 2015 (UTC)reply
"They", the official documents authored by their PR people, don't, but everybody else, including their staff, does. And outside of Boston, the official name is so unrecognizable it needs unnatural disambiguation. --
SmokeyJoe (
talk) 05:11, 6 June 2015 (UTC)reply
Sources that use "Boston Municipal Protective Services" and do not use "City Hall Security" include:
The above sources show that the previous official name remains the accepted name.
Searching for sources using "City Hall Security" are confounded by the extreme ambiguity of the phrase, the phrase being used in association with many unrelated subjects. --
SmokeyJoe (
talk) 11:01, 21 June 2015 (UTC)reply
But, should I not be agreed with on my preference, the proposal is less bad than the current title. --
SmokeyJoe (
talk) 11:03, 21 June 2015 (UTC)reply
Oppose What are we going to do with the previous title? If there are other notable topics by this name, where are they? --
BDD (
talk) 15:31, 11 June 2015 (UTC)reply
Other cities (Toronto) have "City Hall Security"s, and lots of places have city halls and security for the city halls. Leaving this article at this title doesn't solve the problem of it being unrecognizable non Boston municipal readers, and it being ambiguous. The title, the redirect left after renaming, would be best deleted so that any attempt to go straight to the exact title will invoke the search engine. If that doesn't work, redirect and list
Boston Municipal Protective Services at
City Hall (disambiguation). Simply redirecting to
Boston Municipal Protective Services is also reasonable. "City Hall" is an arcane terminology used without widely accepted meaning, sometimes used for trivial fashion reasons. --
SmokeyJoe (
talk) 23:17, 14 June 2015 (UTC)reply
Support per the aboves, either CHS (Boston) or MPS (Boston) or Boston CHS or Boston MPS choices works for me. Per SmokeyJoe, the current title does not work. --
70.51.203.69 (
talk) 12:15, 18 June 2015 (UTC)reply
Oppose. There are no other articles to disambiguate this from, which leaves us in the situation where the base name would redirect to the longer, disambiguated name. If the department has another common name, let's see the evidence for it.--
Cúchullaint/
c 18:29, 18 June 2015 (UTC)reply
There are many usages of "city hall security" not related to this subject. The common name for this subject appears to be the previous official name. The redirect should be deleted so that searchers encounter search engine results. --
SmokeyJoe (
talk) 11:01, 21 June 2015 (UTC)reply
I'm not seeing any that have Wikipedia articles that would compete for the title "City Hall Security". And we really shouldn't be deleting any reasonable redirect. As far as the common name goes, when did the name change occur? We really need to see how sources have treated the subject since then.--
Cúchullaint/
c 14:10, 22 June 2015 (UTC)reply
Opppose per Cuchullain. However, I'm open to SmokeyJoe's suggestion of
Boston Municipal Protective Services if it can be shown that is the common name in independent reliable sources.
Jenks24 (
talk) 11:22, 20 June 2015 (UTC)reply
Some sources added above. There are few sources, with this department, spun out of the police to provide more narrowly defined security is not very news or study worthy. --
SmokeyJoe (
talk) 11:01, 21 June 2015 (UTC)reply
Thanks. My new !vote is move to
Boston Municipal Protective Services per the sources provided by SmokeyJoe. To be clear though, I still oppose the initial proposed title.
Jenks24 (
talk) 14:59, 22 June 2015 (UTC)reply
Support, current name is misleading.
Cavarrone 11:49, 21 June 2015 (UTC)reply
Cavarrone, won't "City Hall Security" redirecting to the new title also be misleading? --
BDD (
talk) 13:59, 22 June 2015 (UTC)reply
Yes, it should go away IMO, but let's take one thing at a time.
Cavarrone 14:13, 22 June 2015 (UTC)reply
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a
requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.
Post-move comments
Thanks to
BD2412 for what I think was a very sensible close. But I would just like to strongly suggest someone does not edit
Seat of local government as described in the close, unless he or she can back it up with good sourcing. Most city halls have security forces? Says who? There are some pretty tiny cities out there. --
BDD (
talk) 18:41, 25 June 2015 (UTC)reply
Of course, any addition should be sourced. I would also point out that a city hall need not have a dedicated "security force" to have "security" of some kind.
bd2412T 18:51, 25 June 2015 (UTC)reply