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Sadly there is an edit-'debate' in progress over whether to use the English noun 'God' or the (transliterated) name 'Yahweh' in this article. (Apologies to my Jewish friends who might wish us to be more cautious in writing either, but this is an encyclopedia for everyone.) I can see arguments both ways, reflecting normal non-specialist English usage on one hand and fidelity to Ezekiel's text on the other. The editors in question may have other reasons besides.
Might I humbly invite the participants to sheath their pens and instead develop on this page a section for the article addressing the, to my mind at least, interesting way in which the book refers to the Divinity. The noun 'God' (Elohim) is seldom used; ordinarily the prophet uses the tetragrammaton, traditionally rendered 'LORD' in our English translations, sometimes transliterated 'Yahweh' (formerly 'Jehovah'). Often he uses the composite 'Lord (Adonai) + the tetragrammaton', rendered 'Lord GOD'. I believe it would be a valuable addition to this page to summarise the understandings that have arisen in traditional Judaism and in conservative and higher-critical Christianity as to the significance of this useage.
Pax editoribus bonae voluntatis! . John M Brear ( talk) 15:28, 16 December 2012 (UTC)
What on earth is all the fuss for? I suggest that most readers won't understand this word Yahweh; therefore, if you must use it, it needs explaining, at least the first time it's used. I suppose there's a case to be made for using Yahweh wherever the text of Ezekiel uses it - but checking up all the instances would tax my patience beyond breaking point. Or else, where Professor Bloggs (our hypothetical source) uses Yaheh, we use Yahweh, and where he says God we say God. (We should of course be basing all our edits on Professor Bloggs and his colleagues, never directly on Ezekiel himself, since Bloggs, not we, is the expert and reliable source). PiCo ( talk) 08:42, 29 December 2012 (UTC) (Just to clarify, I'm pretty much agreeing with the merry Til Eul. - not something you see every day). PiCo ( talk) 08:45, 29 December 2012 (UTC)
The more I think about it, the more I'm convinced that our article should NOT use the word "God" where Ezekiel uses "YHWH". The reason is to do with the theology of the book itself: Ezekiel is an intensely patriotic work, written to rally the exiled Jews and remind them of the glory of their kingdom and the promise made to them by their God. That god, whose name was Yahweh, was not anyone else's god - NOT, unlike the Christian God, the sole deity of the entire world. Ezekiel was quite happy to see the Babylonians worshiping Marduk; he might have regarded Marduk as a wicked and evil god, but or he might even have regarded him as a delusion, but he certainly didn't think that the Babylonians needed to start worshiping YHWH. YHWH was the God of Israel alone - that's a major theological difference from what we mean when we say "God". PiCo ( talk) 08:55, 29 December 2012 (UTC)
In the Hebrew language, God's personal name is written יְהוָ֑ה. These four letters, called the Tetragrammaton, are read from right to left in Hebrew and can be represented in many modern languages as YHWH or JHVH. God's name, represented by these four consonants, appears almost seven thousand times in the original "Old Testament," or Hebrew Scriptures.
In English, the Tetragrammaton is translated “ Jehovah”. Here's how it's translated in many other languages -
Arabic - Yahwa | Awabakal - Yehóa | Bugotu - Jihova |
Cantonese - Yehwowah | Danish - Jehova | Dutch - Jehovah |
Efik - Jehovah | Fijian - Jiova | Finnish - Jehova |
French - Jéhovah | Futuna - Ihova | German – Jehova |
Greek - Iechová | Hungarian – Jehova | Igbo - Jehova |
Italian - Geova | Japanese - Ehoba | Maori - Ihowa |
Motu - Iehova | Mwala-Malu - Jihova | Narrinyeri – Jehovah |
Nembe - Jihova | Petats - Jihouva | Polish - Jehowa |
Portuguese - Jeová | Romanian – Iehova | Samoan - Ieova |
Sotho - Jehova | Spanish - Jehová | Swahili - Yehova |
Swedish - Jehova | Tahitian – Iehova | Tagalog - Jehova |
Tongan - Jihova | Venda - Yehova | Xhosa - uYehova |
Yoruba - Jehofah | Zulu - uJehova |
As such, I propose that, especially in articles written in English, as is this article, "Jehovah" be used as God's proper name. —Maxximiliann talk 14:51, 15 August 2013 (UTC)
So, if I am reading this correctly, there are two versions of this work, the longer version being the one that appears in the Masoretic text, and the shorter being the version that appears in the Septuagint.
I think much more needs to be said of this.
For one thing, is the Septuagint version simply shorter, or is it shorter and different? In other words, would it be accurate to say that everything that is in the Septuagint version is also in the Masoretic version, but that not everything that is in the Masoretic version is in the Septuagint? Or, are there some portions that are completely unique from one another?
For another thing, what about English translations of this work? Do English translations tend to follow the Masoretic version or the version from the Septuagint? Might English translations have tended toward being of one version in the past while changing to being of the other later? Or, might different denominations perhaps prefer one over the other? (E.g., might Protestants prefer translations from the Masoretic version, and might Catholics prefer translations from the Septuagint?)
So many questions. This article could definitely be improved with some added information.
allixpeeke ( talk) 10:28, 1 March 2017 (UTC)
This article says that Ezekiel follows Isaiah and Jeremiah, but should it not say that it follows the Lamentations of Jeremiah? Vorbee ( talk) 21:16, 12 October 2017 (UTC)
Is Book of Ezekiel part of the Christian bible? I thought it was, but don't see anything about that in the article. GA-RT-22 ( talk) 21:43, 31 July 2022 (UTC)
Just an idea to flesh out something. Under "Structure", it says, "Ezekiel has the broad three-fold structure found in a number of the prophetic books". Which other prophetic books feature this structure/pattern? Skippedstone ( talk) 21:00, 23 February 2023 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Book of Ezekiel article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
Archives: 1Auto-archiving period: 365 days |
This
level-5 vital article is rated B-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Sadly there is an edit-'debate' in progress over whether to use the English noun 'God' or the (transliterated) name 'Yahweh' in this article. (Apologies to my Jewish friends who might wish us to be more cautious in writing either, but this is an encyclopedia for everyone.) I can see arguments both ways, reflecting normal non-specialist English usage on one hand and fidelity to Ezekiel's text on the other. The editors in question may have other reasons besides.
Might I humbly invite the participants to sheath their pens and instead develop on this page a section for the article addressing the, to my mind at least, interesting way in which the book refers to the Divinity. The noun 'God' (Elohim) is seldom used; ordinarily the prophet uses the tetragrammaton, traditionally rendered 'LORD' in our English translations, sometimes transliterated 'Yahweh' (formerly 'Jehovah'). Often he uses the composite 'Lord (Adonai) + the tetragrammaton', rendered 'Lord GOD'. I believe it would be a valuable addition to this page to summarise the understandings that have arisen in traditional Judaism and in conservative and higher-critical Christianity as to the significance of this useage.
Pax editoribus bonae voluntatis! . John M Brear ( talk) 15:28, 16 December 2012 (UTC)
What on earth is all the fuss for? I suggest that most readers won't understand this word Yahweh; therefore, if you must use it, it needs explaining, at least the first time it's used. I suppose there's a case to be made for using Yahweh wherever the text of Ezekiel uses it - but checking up all the instances would tax my patience beyond breaking point. Or else, where Professor Bloggs (our hypothetical source) uses Yaheh, we use Yahweh, and where he says God we say God. (We should of course be basing all our edits on Professor Bloggs and his colleagues, never directly on Ezekiel himself, since Bloggs, not we, is the expert and reliable source). PiCo ( talk) 08:42, 29 December 2012 (UTC) (Just to clarify, I'm pretty much agreeing with the merry Til Eul. - not something you see every day). PiCo ( talk) 08:45, 29 December 2012 (UTC)
The more I think about it, the more I'm convinced that our article should NOT use the word "God" where Ezekiel uses "YHWH". The reason is to do with the theology of the book itself: Ezekiel is an intensely patriotic work, written to rally the exiled Jews and remind them of the glory of their kingdom and the promise made to them by their God. That god, whose name was Yahweh, was not anyone else's god - NOT, unlike the Christian God, the sole deity of the entire world. Ezekiel was quite happy to see the Babylonians worshiping Marduk; he might have regarded Marduk as a wicked and evil god, but or he might even have regarded him as a delusion, but he certainly didn't think that the Babylonians needed to start worshiping YHWH. YHWH was the God of Israel alone - that's a major theological difference from what we mean when we say "God". PiCo ( talk) 08:55, 29 December 2012 (UTC)
In the Hebrew language, God's personal name is written יְהוָ֑ה. These four letters, called the Tetragrammaton, are read from right to left in Hebrew and can be represented in many modern languages as YHWH or JHVH. God's name, represented by these four consonants, appears almost seven thousand times in the original "Old Testament," or Hebrew Scriptures.
In English, the Tetragrammaton is translated “ Jehovah”. Here's how it's translated in many other languages -
Arabic - Yahwa | Awabakal - Yehóa | Bugotu - Jihova |
Cantonese - Yehwowah | Danish - Jehova | Dutch - Jehovah |
Efik - Jehovah | Fijian - Jiova | Finnish - Jehova |
French - Jéhovah | Futuna - Ihova | German – Jehova |
Greek - Iechová | Hungarian – Jehova | Igbo - Jehova |
Italian - Geova | Japanese - Ehoba | Maori - Ihowa |
Motu - Iehova | Mwala-Malu - Jihova | Narrinyeri – Jehovah |
Nembe - Jihova | Petats - Jihouva | Polish - Jehowa |
Portuguese - Jeová | Romanian – Iehova | Samoan - Ieova |
Sotho - Jehova | Spanish - Jehová | Swahili - Yehova |
Swedish - Jehova | Tahitian – Iehova | Tagalog - Jehova |
Tongan - Jihova | Venda - Yehova | Xhosa - uYehova |
Yoruba - Jehofah | Zulu - uJehova |
As such, I propose that, especially in articles written in English, as is this article, "Jehovah" be used as God's proper name. —Maxximiliann talk 14:51, 15 August 2013 (UTC)
So, if I am reading this correctly, there are two versions of this work, the longer version being the one that appears in the Masoretic text, and the shorter being the version that appears in the Septuagint.
I think much more needs to be said of this.
For one thing, is the Septuagint version simply shorter, or is it shorter and different? In other words, would it be accurate to say that everything that is in the Septuagint version is also in the Masoretic version, but that not everything that is in the Masoretic version is in the Septuagint? Or, are there some portions that are completely unique from one another?
For another thing, what about English translations of this work? Do English translations tend to follow the Masoretic version or the version from the Septuagint? Might English translations have tended toward being of one version in the past while changing to being of the other later? Or, might different denominations perhaps prefer one over the other? (E.g., might Protestants prefer translations from the Masoretic version, and might Catholics prefer translations from the Septuagint?)
So many questions. This article could definitely be improved with some added information.
allixpeeke ( talk) 10:28, 1 March 2017 (UTC)
This article says that Ezekiel follows Isaiah and Jeremiah, but should it not say that it follows the Lamentations of Jeremiah? Vorbee ( talk) 21:16, 12 October 2017 (UTC)
Is Book of Ezekiel part of the Christian bible? I thought it was, but don't see anything about that in the article. GA-RT-22 ( talk) 21:43, 31 July 2022 (UTC)
Just an idea to flesh out something. Under "Structure", it says, "Ezekiel has the broad three-fold structure found in a number of the prophetic books". Which other prophetic books feature this structure/pattern? Skippedstone ( talk) 21:00, 23 February 2023 (UTC)