This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | Archive 2 | Archive 3 | Archive 4 | Archive 5 | Archive 6 | → | Archive 10 |
Since this article is now bigger than the preferred size, I think that it should be broken up into smaller chunks with the Bill Clinton page itself becoming a directory to these pages. New pages could be donoted as follows family and early career, govenorship, presidency, and post-presidency. I think his presidency may have to be broken up into at least two pages, one for each term at least. This is my two cents on the matter. Gmosaki 22:15, 14 December 2005 (UTC)
Derex has corrected all of our problems! When facts are introduced, hey, the truth must go. While leaving all the other numbers and conjectures (conjectures until proven), the cited, independent fact must go. But hey, ZERO INFLUENCE is ZERO INFLUENCE. Everyone in agreement I am sure will all at once bombarding this site with removals of the economy section! After, it wasn't Clinton's credit . . . or fault.
It's folly to think that a President has zero influence over the economy. The President DOES have influence over interest rates, albeit indirectly. The Fed, generally, has a mandate to fight inflation/stimulate the economy via interest rates. When the budget and trade deficit is high, the Fed will have pressure to increase interest rates to beat down inflation. When the reverse is true, there is more scope to expand the economy via lower interest rates.
In addition, the president also has influnce over the economy, via the budget, by encouraging investments in training and education, or, alternatively, by rewarding productive behaviour. Was welfare reform not a Clinton initiative? Was the Earned Income Tax Credit, effectively a tax cut for the working class, not a Clinton initiative?
Interesting: there were fictitious "lowest interest rates" quoted here that was relevant . . . but not pointed out as a lie, so not relevant . . . oh, I see, let's just mention the good parts about the economy. Derex says the president doesn't control when something bad happens . . . maybe he didn't control any of the good things either and they should all be removed. Of course, none of that information is cited currently. When talking about the economy, lets be FAIR and BALANCED. Did Clinton control the unemployment rate? Homeowner rate? By Derelicx's logic, no. Everyone, realize a slant when you see one.
Hi, Please excuse any talk page guidelines I have unwittingly broken, I'm pretty new to this.
I am curious why the article states that Clinton's "approval rating varied over the course of his first term, ranging from about 40% in 1993"? A coworker of mine asked me what Clinton's lowest approval rating was, I answered 40% based on this page. The coworker pointed me to this page from Roper:
Which seems to show that for two months some polls were consistently showing an approval rating as low as 36%.
I would prefer to believe the polls were biased or poorly done but...?
jerry 16:22, 14 October 2005 (UTC)
Please include the youngest and second youngest.
Would it be appropriate to add the following:
In September 2005, the Guangzhou Rubber Group, a rubber products manufacture, announced they would be manufacturing a line of condoms named Clinton (and another named Lewinsky). The company spokesman stated the reasoning behind the naming was that Mr. Clinton and Ms. Lewinsky "...are symbols of people who are responsible and dedicated to their jobs." (source: http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20050921/ap_on_fe_st/clinton_condoms)
--- N0YKG 18:00, 28 September 2005 (UTC)
While I haven't scrutinized the entire page, I like a lot of what I see. I especially like the way you handled all the unsubstantiated rumors floating around Bill Clinton. Exemplary work. Big Daddy 13:24, 30 September 2005 (UTC)
Update! Although I still greatly admire the way you characterized the unsubstantiated rumors about Bill Clinton and collapsed them into one tight paragraph, I've been instructed that the use of the terms "far right" and 'fomented' are considered unacceptable for use in Wikipedia and should be removed. Any comments on this before I go ahead and make the modifications? Thanks!
Big Daddy 09:41, 1 October 2005 (UTC)
POV Clean Up
I changed this - "Clinton was viewed with intense personal dislike of his policies and character by some on the far right. Several unsubstantiated accusations were leveled by conservative talk radio. Among these were rumors of involvement with drug traffickers and personal cocaine use. Some talk show personalities even fomented conspiracy theories about Clinton's involvement in the death of long-time friend and aide Vince Foster, which was later ruled a suicide in an extensive investigation by Kenneth Starr. The deadly Branch Davidian standoff near Waco, Texas in 1993 fomented further far right hostility to the Clinton administration."
To This - "Clinton was viewed with intense personal dislike of his policies and character by some conservative critics. Several unsubstantiated accusations were leveled on some conservative talk radio programs. Among these were rumors of involvement with drug traffickers and personal cocaine use. Some talk show personalities even developed conspiracy theories about Clinton's involvement in the death of long-time friend and aide Vince Foster, which was later ruled a suicide in an extensive investigation by Kenneth Starr. The deadly Branch Davidian standoff near Waco, Texas in 1993, which many considered to a be bungled operation, engendered further hostility to the Clinton administration."
Hope no one minds... Big Daddy 11:13, 1 October 2005 (UTC)
I agree although the re-introduction without comment of the word fomenting may be problematic. Either way, with the removal of the emotion-laden tags "far right" I think this is an excellent model of how to deal with the litany of unsubatantiated attacks that are thrown at almost any controversial political figure. I'm glad you agree with me that this is a good treatment for the Clinton article, as I plan on using this model in treating similar rumors and inneundos in other articles. Thanks again for your comments.
Big Daddy 02:36, 2 October 2005 (UTC)
When he tried to pass the Arkansas Bar, he probably took a test to show us he knew what he was doing. What happened to the test results? Were the results judged objectively? If his bar exam was destroyed to hide the results, or an improper standard was used to evaluate his answers, who was on the Board of Bar Examiners when he was tested?
Did he get his law license back? QuestioningAuthority 18:59, 5 October 2005 (UTC)
Is the phrasing "more conservative themes" NPOV? -- Dpr 03:38, 7 October 2005 (UTC)
Why is there such a long list of books for further reading, but not a single source cited? Johnleemk | Talk 16:09, 11 October 2005 (UTC)
On 10/13/05, I removed the sentence in the section "Significant Events" that stated the economic recession began in early 1999. On the contrary, the economy continued to boom well into early 2000 where on January 14, 2000, the Dow hit it's all time record high of 11,722.98.
See the Phi Beta Kappa Wikipedia site. Clinton was elected to Phi Beta Kappa in 1968 and is one of only 4 Presidents to have an earned Phi Beta Kappa key. —preceding unsigned comment by 205.188.116.6 ( talk • contribs) 23:34, 14 October 2005 (UTC)
CBDunkerson recently reverted an edit of mine where I noted that according to Roper, Clinton's approval rating had dropped to as low as 36%. CBDunkerson's edit comment was: "If we are including outliers we should do so in both directions. Also fixed link."
I have several questions:
A) What is an outlier? When I visit the Roper Poll I had linked to, [3], I (reluctantly) note that they have 21 data points for approval between 5/26/93 and 8/3/93, a period of a bit more than two months, or 1/6 of 1993, or 2% of his entire term. Within this period, Roper lists 10 data points showing Clinton's approval below 40%. Those 10 data points seemingly represent repeated polling by 4 polling agencies. So for the period in question almost 50% of the data points are less than 40%. In what sense then is a mentioning that Bill Clinton had a low of 36% approval rating relying on an outlier?
B) Which outlier on the high end are you referring to? I say that if it makes sense, list it. But that's just me.
C) How are these sorts of polls handled on other wikipedia topic pages?
If you can help me get my bet back my demonstrating that the 5/26-27/93 Yank/TIME/CNN 36% rating is to be discarded I would appreciate that. But it seems like a reasonable data point and not an outlier to me.
jerry 03:57, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
I've "merged" the Socks the cat page into this page. A more experienced Wiki user is needed to help delete the Socks page. -- mwazzap 02:29, 24 October 2005 (UTC)
Does anyone know anything about the source and/or background of the quote "We can't be so fixated on the rights of ordinary Americans", attributed to Clinton by many extremist critics? -- Dpr 05:47, 6 November 2005 (UTC)
It was from a March 11, 1993 USA Today article. The title of the article was "NRA change: `Omnipotent to powerful'" and Clinton was referring to firearm posession rights during that particular quote. Here is the relevant section from that USA Today article:
Reportedly considering a guns tax to help pay for a new health care plan, Clinton is no Second Amendment absolutist. "We can't be so fixated on our desire to preserve the rights of ordinary Americans to legitimately own handguns and rifles . . . that we are unable to think about reality," he said last week.
The full archived article can be seen at NewsMine.org [4]
While it was misquoted and out of context in this wikipedia article, I do think that it is an important quote to include in its entirety. It shows that, as far as public policy is concerned, Clinton tended to be more mindful of the practical effect of federal laws rather than being a strict constructionist.
--Schenck, 17 December 2005
Multiple reverts on this issue. I think NPOV reference to Nixon/Watergate appropriate in impeachment section as this has been such a rare event historically. Reference to Andrew Johnson impeachment appropriate for same reason.— Gaff ταλκ 07:05, 7 November 2005 (UTC)
A question as a newbie: Why would adding Vince Foster to the list of Clinton scandals continually be reverted? It seems that it deserves mention and was phrased in a NPOV manner. This repeated expedited removal seems to speak more to POV than anything else, Master Jay... -- 66.82.9.55 06:30, 11 December 2005 (UTC)
So much for quick answers, or even an answer period. Perhaps this is why so many people are feeling alienated by Wikipedia and Wikipedia is getting so much heat in the public press. Overzealous reverts without any explanation won't help new user adoption any... -- 66.82.9.65 18:41, 12 December 2005 (UTC)
I see that this isn't a new issue here. The introduction mentions that he was "the third-youngest president," and "the first baby boomer president," but not that he was only one of two Presidents to be impeached. The intro to the Andrew Johnson article mentions he was the first to be impeached. The intro to the Richard Nixon article mentions impeachment, even though Nixon was not impeached. Regardless of one's POV about the justification or motivations behind the impeachment, or the conduct that inspired it, to me it seems like it is at least as historically notable as his age on election or his status as a Baby Boomer. Kaisershatner 17:31, 22 December 2005 (UTC)
OK I know that this is a big can of worms, but I'm thinking of making some evolutionary rather than revolutionary changes to both of these sections. Healthcare seems ok except that it's fairly short and repetitive, and needs some stylistic work. Welfare reform needs to be explored, too. This was a key turning point in the clinton presidency, and lead to the resignation of at least one cabinet official. You can't talk about Clinton without mentioning his complex, triangular relationship between liberal democrats, congressional (conservative) republicans, and his own administration; simply saying "he supported welfare reform" doesn't do it.
Anyway, I wanted to get some ideas before I made any changes.
Wellspring 14:36, 24 November 2005 (UTC)
Someone took issue with 'dull' as POV in Clintons 1988 Democratic convention speech. The article needs to convey that it almost sunk his chances. He bombed at the DNC and still managed to come back in 1992, reinforcing the moniker 'Comeback Kid'.
I left out 'dull', I kept 'long' and added uninspring.
What happened to the section of Clinton's bio pertaining to his early life? There is no mention of his parents, Hope AR, etc. Did some vandal delete it? Gilliamjf 13:26, 3 December 2005 (UTC)
I don't know but it should be there, everything that has an ending, has a begining. it is important to understand Clinton's early life in order to understand the rest of his life.
( JJGlendenning 03:02, 4 December 2005 (UTC))
Clinton was allergic to beef? Didn't he dine at McDonald's all the time? Honestly, I find this difficult to believe despite the citation. Do we have another citation that isn't from "Doctor Zebra"? Gamaliel 08:01, 8 December 2005 (UTC)
From an AP article from 1992: "Dr. Kelsy J. Caplinger of the Little Rock Allergy Clinic wrote that Mr. Clinton had 'allergic rhinitis,' and was 'sensitive to house dust, mold, weed pollens, cat and grass pollens.'" Mr. Clinton also had a slight reaction to milk and beef, the doctor wrote. [5] Adjusted the wording and replaced the citation. -- Vary 03:24, 19 December 2005 (UTC)
We either need reliable sources for these with full context or they need to be taken out. -- 8bitJake 20:54, 15 December 2005 (UTC)
He is easily the greatest president of the last quarter century. The current quasi-president we have makes him look like a legend. Why can't we pass a law to have him in office for a few more terms?
The 9th paragraph under "Special Events" ends with the line: "He was not tried for or guilty of perjury." I edited in the word "found" in front of guilty, to make it a statement of fact rather than a moral judgement of Clinton's guilt or innocence, but I still have a question about the overall accuracy of the sentence. In the Lewinsky scandal page ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lewinsky_scandal) it says Clinton received an "acquittal for charges of perjury and obstruction of justice in a 21-day Senate trial." Do these sentences not contradict each other? Grandiloquos 14:03, 20 December 2005 (UTC)
Copy of my "Jimmy" Carter discussion... Funny that it happens to Democratic presidents, eh? Who decided that diminuitive "Popular" names are appropriate?:
It is somewhat degrading to presidents Clinton and Carter to place them under articles using their "familiar" names. To put this article under "Jimmy" Carter is entirely inappropriate, notably since other wikipedias use James E. Carter or James Earl Carter. It seems that foreigners have more respect for democratic presidents than we do.
It is also entirely unencyclopedic. We don't place Ernest Hemingway under "Papa" Hemingway, nor Elizabeth II under "Queen Elizabeth". What about "Dick" Nixon, or "Gerry" Ford? "Ron" Reagan? Bastique 14:23, 20 December 2005 (UTC)
Could someone just briefly outline the rationale for this measure? This article isn't vandalized to an extent where admins and diligent users can't handle it. Has there been a spurt of vandalism recently to warrant this? Semi-protection shouldn't be used just because it's there. Thanks. Harro 5 05:59, 24 December 2005 (UTC)
I think it possible that some people would be interested in the "where are they now" type question about presidential pets, so it's reasonable to report Buddy's death. Nevertheless, we're overdoing it to give the exact intersection at which he was hit and the name of the driver of the car. I've removed these details. Anyone who feels that Wikipedia cannot hold its head up unless it provides this information should feel free to add it to Buddy (dog) (along with finding out what make of car it was, I suppose). JamesMLane 10:44, 24 December 2005 (UTC)
That thread up there seems to be dead, so let me reiterate:
I see that this isn't a new issue here. The introduction mentions that he was "the third-youngest president," and "the first baby boomer president," but not that he was only one of two Presidents to be impeached. The intro to the Andrew Johnson article mentions he was the first to be impeached. The intro to the Richard Nixon article mentions impeachment, even though Nixon was not impeached. Regardless of one's POV about the justification or motivations behind the impeachment, or the conduct that inspired it, to me it seems like it is at least as historically notable as his age on election or his status as a Baby Boomer. Kaisershatner 17:31, 22 December 2005 (UTC)
I've unprotected the page as per the request on WP:RPP. If you need full or semi-protection again please post another request on WP:RPP. Thanks. Izehar 19:52, 26 December 2005 (UTC)
Professor Von Pie, thank you for your recent work to expand this article's information on Don't Ask, Don't Tell. And thank you for including references with your more recent edits. They do discuss Clinton's pledge to end the ban on gays in the military. But you already included a note about that earlier in the paragraph. The new claims immediately preceding the references are that 1) Clinton specifically pledged to end the ban by executive order, and 2) that he mentioned Truman's similar order in doing so. But I can't find anything in the two references to support either claim. Am I missing something? -- Allen 01:06, 19 January 2006 (UTC)
This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | Archive 2 | Archive 3 | Archive 4 | Archive 5 | Archive 6 | → | Archive 10 |
Since this article is now bigger than the preferred size, I think that it should be broken up into smaller chunks with the Bill Clinton page itself becoming a directory to these pages. New pages could be donoted as follows family and early career, govenorship, presidency, and post-presidency. I think his presidency may have to be broken up into at least two pages, one for each term at least. This is my two cents on the matter. Gmosaki 22:15, 14 December 2005 (UTC)
Derex has corrected all of our problems! When facts are introduced, hey, the truth must go. While leaving all the other numbers and conjectures (conjectures until proven), the cited, independent fact must go. But hey, ZERO INFLUENCE is ZERO INFLUENCE. Everyone in agreement I am sure will all at once bombarding this site with removals of the economy section! After, it wasn't Clinton's credit . . . or fault.
It's folly to think that a President has zero influence over the economy. The President DOES have influence over interest rates, albeit indirectly. The Fed, generally, has a mandate to fight inflation/stimulate the economy via interest rates. When the budget and trade deficit is high, the Fed will have pressure to increase interest rates to beat down inflation. When the reverse is true, there is more scope to expand the economy via lower interest rates.
In addition, the president also has influnce over the economy, via the budget, by encouraging investments in training and education, or, alternatively, by rewarding productive behaviour. Was welfare reform not a Clinton initiative? Was the Earned Income Tax Credit, effectively a tax cut for the working class, not a Clinton initiative?
Interesting: there were fictitious "lowest interest rates" quoted here that was relevant . . . but not pointed out as a lie, so not relevant . . . oh, I see, let's just mention the good parts about the economy. Derex says the president doesn't control when something bad happens . . . maybe he didn't control any of the good things either and they should all be removed. Of course, none of that information is cited currently. When talking about the economy, lets be FAIR and BALANCED. Did Clinton control the unemployment rate? Homeowner rate? By Derelicx's logic, no. Everyone, realize a slant when you see one.
Hi, Please excuse any talk page guidelines I have unwittingly broken, I'm pretty new to this.
I am curious why the article states that Clinton's "approval rating varied over the course of his first term, ranging from about 40% in 1993"? A coworker of mine asked me what Clinton's lowest approval rating was, I answered 40% based on this page. The coworker pointed me to this page from Roper:
Which seems to show that for two months some polls were consistently showing an approval rating as low as 36%.
I would prefer to believe the polls were biased or poorly done but...?
jerry 16:22, 14 October 2005 (UTC)
Please include the youngest and second youngest.
Would it be appropriate to add the following:
In September 2005, the Guangzhou Rubber Group, a rubber products manufacture, announced they would be manufacturing a line of condoms named Clinton (and another named Lewinsky). The company spokesman stated the reasoning behind the naming was that Mr. Clinton and Ms. Lewinsky "...are symbols of people who are responsible and dedicated to their jobs." (source: http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20050921/ap_on_fe_st/clinton_condoms)
--- N0YKG 18:00, 28 September 2005 (UTC)
While I haven't scrutinized the entire page, I like a lot of what I see. I especially like the way you handled all the unsubstantiated rumors floating around Bill Clinton. Exemplary work. Big Daddy 13:24, 30 September 2005 (UTC)
Update! Although I still greatly admire the way you characterized the unsubstantiated rumors about Bill Clinton and collapsed them into one tight paragraph, I've been instructed that the use of the terms "far right" and 'fomented' are considered unacceptable for use in Wikipedia and should be removed. Any comments on this before I go ahead and make the modifications? Thanks!
Big Daddy 09:41, 1 October 2005 (UTC)
POV Clean Up
I changed this - "Clinton was viewed with intense personal dislike of his policies and character by some on the far right. Several unsubstantiated accusations were leveled by conservative talk radio. Among these were rumors of involvement with drug traffickers and personal cocaine use. Some talk show personalities even fomented conspiracy theories about Clinton's involvement in the death of long-time friend and aide Vince Foster, which was later ruled a suicide in an extensive investigation by Kenneth Starr. The deadly Branch Davidian standoff near Waco, Texas in 1993 fomented further far right hostility to the Clinton administration."
To This - "Clinton was viewed with intense personal dislike of his policies and character by some conservative critics. Several unsubstantiated accusations were leveled on some conservative talk radio programs. Among these were rumors of involvement with drug traffickers and personal cocaine use. Some talk show personalities even developed conspiracy theories about Clinton's involvement in the death of long-time friend and aide Vince Foster, which was later ruled a suicide in an extensive investigation by Kenneth Starr. The deadly Branch Davidian standoff near Waco, Texas in 1993, which many considered to a be bungled operation, engendered further hostility to the Clinton administration."
Hope no one minds... Big Daddy 11:13, 1 October 2005 (UTC)
I agree although the re-introduction without comment of the word fomenting may be problematic. Either way, with the removal of the emotion-laden tags "far right" I think this is an excellent model of how to deal with the litany of unsubatantiated attacks that are thrown at almost any controversial political figure. I'm glad you agree with me that this is a good treatment for the Clinton article, as I plan on using this model in treating similar rumors and inneundos in other articles. Thanks again for your comments.
Big Daddy 02:36, 2 October 2005 (UTC)
When he tried to pass the Arkansas Bar, he probably took a test to show us he knew what he was doing. What happened to the test results? Were the results judged objectively? If his bar exam was destroyed to hide the results, or an improper standard was used to evaluate his answers, who was on the Board of Bar Examiners when he was tested?
Did he get his law license back? QuestioningAuthority 18:59, 5 October 2005 (UTC)
Is the phrasing "more conservative themes" NPOV? -- Dpr 03:38, 7 October 2005 (UTC)
Why is there such a long list of books for further reading, but not a single source cited? Johnleemk | Talk 16:09, 11 October 2005 (UTC)
On 10/13/05, I removed the sentence in the section "Significant Events" that stated the economic recession began in early 1999. On the contrary, the economy continued to boom well into early 2000 where on January 14, 2000, the Dow hit it's all time record high of 11,722.98.
See the Phi Beta Kappa Wikipedia site. Clinton was elected to Phi Beta Kappa in 1968 and is one of only 4 Presidents to have an earned Phi Beta Kappa key. —preceding unsigned comment by 205.188.116.6 ( talk • contribs) 23:34, 14 October 2005 (UTC)
CBDunkerson recently reverted an edit of mine where I noted that according to Roper, Clinton's approval rating had dropped to as low as 36%. CBDunkerson's edit comment was: "If we are including outliers we should do so in both directions. Also fixed link."
I have several questions:
A) What is an outlier? When I visit the Roper Poll I had linked to, [3], I (reluctantly) note that they have 21 data points for approval between 5/26/93 and 8/3/93, a period of a bit more than two months, or 1/6 of 1993, or 2% of his entire term. Within this period, Roper lists 10 data points showing Clinton's approval below 40%. Those 10 data points seemingly represent repeated polling by 4 polling agencies. So for the period in question almost 50% of the data points are less than 40%. In what sense then is a mentioning that Bill Clinton had a low of 36% approval rating relying on an outlier?
B) Which outlier on the high end are you referring to? I say that if it makes sense, list it. But that's just me.
C) How are these sorts of polls handled on other wikipedia topic pages?
If you can help me get my bet back my demonstrating that the 5/26-27/93 Yank/TIME/CNN 36% rating is to be discarded I would appreciate that. But it seems like a reasonable data point and not an outlier to me.
jerry 03:57, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
I've "merged" the Socks the cat page into this page. A more experienced Wiki user is needed to help delete the Socks page. -- mwazzap 02:29, 24 October 2005 (UTC)
Does anyone know anything about the source and/or background of the quote "We can't be so fixated on the rights of ordinary Americans", attributed to Clinton by many extremist critics? -- Dpr 05:47, 6 November 2005 (UTC)
It was from a March 11, 1993 USA Today article. The title of the article was "NRA change: `Omnipotent to powerful'" and Clinton was referring to firearm posession rights during that particular quote. Here is the relevant section from that USA Today article:
Reportedly considering a guns tax to help pay for a new health care plan, Clinton is no Second Amendment absolutist. "We can't be so fixated on our desire to preserve the rights of ordinary Americans to legitimately own handguns and rifles . . . that we are unable to think about reality," he said last week.
The full archived article can be seen at NewsMine.org [4]
While it was misquoted and out of context in this wikipedia article, I do think that it is an important quote to include in its entirety. It shows that, as far as public policy is concerned, Clinton tended to be more mindful of the practical effect of federal laws rather than being a strict constructionist.
--Schenck, 17 December 2005
Multiple reverts on this issue. I think NPOV reference to Nixon/Watergate appropriate in impeachment section as this has been such a rare event historically. Reference to Andrew Johnson impeachment appropriate for same reason.— Gaff ταλκ 07:05, 7 November 2005 (UTC)
A question as a newbie: Why would adding Vince Foster to the list of Clinton scandals continually be reverted? It seems that it deserves mention and was phrased in a NPOV manner. This repeated expedited removal seems to speak more to POV than anything else, Master Jay... -- 66.82.9.55 06:30, 11 December 2005 (UTC)
So much for quick answers, or even an answer period. Perhaps this is why so many people are feeling alienated by Wikipedia and Wikipedia is getting so much heat in the public press. Overzealous reverts without any explanation won't help new user adoption any... -- 66.82.9.65 18:41, 12 December 2005 (UTC)
I see that this isn't a new issue here. The introduction mentions that he was "the third-youngest president," and "the first baby boomer president," but not that he was only one of two Presidents to be impeached. The intro to the Andrew Johnson article mentions he was the first to be impeached. The intro to the Richard Nixon article mentions impeachment, even though Nixon was not impeached. Regardless of one's POV about the justification or motivations behind the impeachment, or the conduct that inspired it, to me it seems like it is at least as historically notable as his age on election or his status as a Baby Boomer. Kaisershatner 17:31, 22 December 2005 (UTC)
OK I know that this is a big can of worms, but I'm thinking of making some evolutionary rather than revolutionary changes to both of these sections. Healthcare seems ok except that it's fairly short and repetitive, and needs some stylistic work. Welfare reform needs to be explored, too. This was a key turning point in the clinton presidency, and lead to the resignation of at least one cabinet official. You can't talk about Clinton without mentioning his complex, triangular relationship between liberal democrats, congressional (conservative) republicans, and his own administration; simply saying "he supported welfare reform" doesn't do it.
Anyway, I wanted to get some ideas before I made any changes.
Wellspring 14:36, 24 November 2005 (UTC)
Someone took issue with 'dull' as POV in Clintons 1988 Democratic convention speech. The article needs to convey that it almost sunk his chances. He bombed at the DNC and still managed to come back in 1992, reinforcing the moniker 'Comeback Kid'.
I left out 'dull', I kept 'long' and added uninspring.
What happened to the section of Clinton's bio pertaining to his early life? There is no mention of his parents, Hope AR, etc. Did some vandal delete it? Gilliamjf 13:26, 3 December 2005 (UTC)
I don't know but it should be there, everything that has an ending, has a begining. it is important to understand Clinton's early life in order to understand the rest of his life.
( JJGlendenning 03:02, 4 December 2005 (UTC))
Clinton was allergic to beef? Didn't he dine at McDonald's all the time? Honestly, I find this difficult to believe despite the citation. Do we have another citation that isn't from "Doctor Zebra"? Gamaliel 08:01, 8 December 2005 (UTC)
From an AP article from 1992: "Dr. Kelsy J. Caplinger of the Little Rock Allergy Clinic wrote that Mr. Clinton had 'allergic rhinitis,' and was 'sensitive to house dust, mold, weed pollens, cat and grass pollens.'" Mr. Clinton also had a slight reaction to milk and beef, the doctor wrote. [5] Adjusted the wording and replaced the citation. -- Vary 03:24, 19 December 2005 (UTC)
We either need reliable sources for these with full context or they need to be taken out. -- 8bitJake 20:54, 15 December 2005 (UTC)
He is easily the greatest president of the last quarter century. The current quasi-president we have makes him look like a legend. Why can't we pass a law to have him in office for a few more terms?
The 9th paragraph under "Special Events" ends with the line: "He was not tried for or guilty of perjury." I edited in the word "found" in front of guilty, to make it a statement of fact rather than a moral judgement of Clinton's guilt or innocence, but I still have a question about the overall accuracy of the sentence. In the Lewinsky scandal page ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lewinsky_scandal) it says Clinton received an "acquittal for charges of perjury and obstruction of justice in a 21-day Senate trial." Do these sentences not contradict each other? Grandiloquos 14:03, 20 December 2005 (UTC)
Copy of my "Jimmy" Carter discussion... Funny that it happens to Democratic presidents, eh? Who decided that diminuitive "Popular" names are appropriate?:
It is somewhat degrading to presidents Clinton and Carter to place them under articles using their "familiar" names. To put this article under "Jimmy" Carter is entirely inappropriate, notably since other wikipedias use James E. Carter or James Earl Carter. It seems that foreigners have more respect for democratic presidents than we do.
It is also entirely unencyclopedic. We don't place Ernest Hemingway under "Papa" Hemingway, nor Elizabeth II under "Queen Elizabeth". What about "Dick" Nixon, or "Gerry" Ford? "Ron" Reagan? Bastique 14:23, 20 December 2005 (UTC)
Could someone just briefly outline the rationale for this measure? This article isn't vandalized to an extent where admins and diligent users can't handle it. Has there been a spurt of vandalism recently to warrant this? Semi-protection shouldn't be used just because it's there. Thanks. Harro 5 05:59, 24 December 2005 (UTC)
I think it possible that some people would be interested in the "where are they now" type question about presidential pets, so it's reasonable to report Buddy's death. Nevertheless, we're overdoing it to give the exact intersection at which he was hit and the name of the driver of the car. I've removed these details. Anyone who feels that Wikipedia cannot hold its head up unless it provides this information should feel free to add it to Buddy (dog) (along with finding out what make of car it was, I suppose). JamesMLane 10:44, 24 December 2005 (UTC)
That thread up there seems to be dead, so let me reiterate:
I see that this isn't a new issue here. The introduction mentions that he was "the third-youngest president," and "the first baby boomer president," but not that he was only one of two Presidents to be impeached. The intro to the Andrew Johnson article mentions he was the first to be impeached. The intro to the Richard Nixon article mentions impeachment, even though Nixon was not impeached. Regardless of one's POV about the justification or motivations behind the impeachment, or the conduct that inspired it, to me it seems like it is at least as historically notable as his age on election or his status as a Baby Boomer. Kaisershatner 17:31, 22 December 2005 (UTC)
I've unprotected the page as per the request on WP:RPP. If you need full or semi-protection again please post another request on WP:RPP. Thanks. Izehar 19:52, 26 December 2005 (UTC)
Professor Von Pie, thank you for your recent work to expand this article's information on Don't Ask, Don't Tell. And thank you for including references with your more recent edits. They do discuss Clinton's pledge to end the ban on gays in the military. But you already included a note about that earlier in the paragraph. The new claims immediately preceding the references are that 1) Clinton specifically pledged to end the ban by executive order, and 2) that he mentioned Truman's similar order in doing so. But I can't find anything in the two references to support either claim. Am I missing something? -- Allen 01:06, 19 January 2006 (UTC)