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Beatrice of Nazareth article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
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Beatrice of Nazareth was nominated as a Philosophy and religion good article, but it did not meet the good article criteria at the time (January 2, 2024, reviewed version). There are suggestions on the review page for improving the article. If you can improve it, please do; it may then be renominated. |
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Some resources for writing this.
I would support the merge. They seem to be duplicate articles -- go ahead and do it. -- Pastordavid 21:17, 22 February 2007 (UTC)
I'm doing a 20-Minute Article Assessment per Moriwen 's request at Wikiproject Women in Green. Assessing on the six Good article criteria I'd say this article could become a GA with a bit more work to pull it into shape, comments below Mujinga ( talk) 10:46, 4 October 2023 (UTC)
- on a quick look sources seem generally good, I might query whether https://web.archive.org/web/20060405195403/http://www.users.csbsju.edu/~eknuth/xpxx/beguines.html is reliable at a review
- link 3 is at the moment entirely hyperlinked - ah i see it's a ref that needs updating into one of the modern styles ... this isn't necessary for GA level but it'd be a good idea nevertheless to update the referencing
- the article needs pulling into paragraphs rather than sentences and the lead can be expanded to better summarise the article
- bit confused about her dad, "he sent her to become an oblate at a Cistercian convent he had founded at Bloemendaal" which makes him seem like a senior religious person, but later on he's a lay brother? maybe introduce his work when you first mention him if possible?
- Beatrice is associated with the mulieres religiosae, an emerging thirteenth-century group of women - these women were in Belgium? across Europe?
- possibly reflecting a tendency to bipolar disorder.[13] - suggest simplifying to "indicating bipolar disorder" or suchlike
- middle dutch can be linked on first mention in text
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
GA toolbox |
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Reviewing |
Reviewer: Asilvering ( talk · contribs) 11:33, 19 October 2023 (UTC)
GA review – see WP:WIAGA for criteria
Hi! Thanks for nominating this article. I'll get to a source check in a bit but I have a couple of questions/comments already:
I hope to confirm the widely accepted view that Beatrice intended to produce an original statement about mystical love, building on a number of ideas from existing Latin treatises on love, however, not as a kind of hidden autobiographical kerygma but, rather, with the purpose of offering instruction.I don't see this pedagogical impulse mentioned anywhere. Since it's "widely accepted" and also the focus of one of the most recent articles, this article should mention something about it, even if briefly. imo the easiest way is something like adding "Scholars view the text as an original work on mysticism ..." before talking about her influences, and taking the pedagogical intent on to the end of that paragraph. But please do whatever you think works best. tbh this seems like a really obvious point to make to me, to the point that I just assumed this was the case without having read the text, but if someone's gone and written an entire journal article about it, I suppose we ought to state the point explicitly. -- asilvering ( talk) 18:19, 25 October 2023 (UTC)
There is a considerable difference between the hagiographer's version, where bodily elements are recurrently stressed, and Beatrice's own treatise, where the spiritual desire to be united with God is the focus. Whereas the vita is an exemplum depicting Beatrice as an exemplary, holy woman, Beatrice's own treatise is a systematic rendition of the lived faith of a contemplative woman.and
Perhaps because of her gender, both her theology and her understanding of humanity are formulated in the dialectic between God and humanity, not between man and woman.-- asilvering ( talk) 00:29, 28 October 2023 (UTC)
Beatrice's monastery of Nazareth lay in the diocese of Cambrai, where the notorious inquisitor Robert le Bougre had established his headquarters, and during her lifetime [pg 29] he put a beguine to death "on account of her true love" as Hadewijch of Brabant wrote in her List of the Perfect.-- asilvering ( talk) 01:08, 28 October 2023 (UTC)
asilvering, Moriwen, Editør, where does this nomination stand? It's been over a month since there were any posts to this review page, October 28 since Moriwen edited the article, and November 4 since asilvering did so. Can we get this nomination moving again, or should it be closed? Thank you. BlueMoonset ( talk) 03:13, 17 December 2023 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Beatrice of Nazareth article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
Beatrice of Nazareth was nominated as a Philosophy and religion good article, but it did not meet the good article criteria at the time (January 2, 2024, reviewed version). There are suggestions on the review page for improving the article. If you can improve it, please do; it may then be renominated. |
This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Some resources for writing this.
I would support the merge. They seem to be duplicate articles -- go ahead and do it. -- Pastordavid 21:17, 22 February 2007 (UTC)
I'm doing a 20-Minute Article Assessment per Moriwen 's request at Wikiproject Women in Green. Assessing on the six Good article criteria I'd say this article could become a GA with a bit more work to pull it into shape, comments below Mujinga ( talk) 10:46, 4 October 2023 (UTC)
- on a quick look sources seem generally good, I might query whether https://web.archive.org/web/20060405195403/http://www.users.csbsju.edu/~eknuth/xpxx/beguines.html is reliable at a review
- link 3 is at the moment entirely hyperlinked - ah i see it's a ref that needs updating into one of the modern styles ... this isn't necessary for GA level but it'd be a good idea nevertheless to update the referencing
- the article needs pulling into paragraphs rather than sentences and the lead can be expanded to better summarise the article
- bit confused about her dad, "he sent her to become an oblate at a Cistercian convent he had founded at Bloemendaal" which makes him seem like a senior religious person, but later on he's a lay brother? maybe introduce his work when you first mention him if possible?
- Beatrice is associated with the mulieres religiosae, an emerging thirteenth-century group of women - these women were in Belgium? across Europe?
- possibly reflecting a tendency to bipolar disorder.[13] - suggest simplifying to "indicating bipolar disorder" or suchlike
- middle dutch can be linked on first mention in text
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
GA toolbox |
---|
Reviewing |
Reviewer: Asilvering ( talk · contribs) 11:33, 19 October 2023 (UTC)
GA review – see WP:WIAGA for criteria
Hi! Thanks for nominating this article. I'll get to a source check in a bit but I have a couple of questions/comments already:
I hope to confirm the widely accepted view that Beatrice intended to produce an original statement about mystical love, building on a number of ideas from existing Latin treatises on love, however, not as a kind of hidden autobiographical kerygma but, rather, with the purpose of offering instruction.I don't see this pedagogical impulse mentioned anywhere. Since it's "widely accepted" and also the focus of one of the most recent articles, this article should mention something about it, even if briefly. imo the easiest way is something like adding "Scholars view the text as an original work on mysticism ..." before talking about her influences, and taking the pedagogical intent on to the end of that paragraph. But please do whatever you think works best. tbh this seems like a really obvious point to make to me, to the point that I just assumed this was the case without having read the text, but if someone's gone and written an entire journal article about it, I suppose we ought to state the point explicitly. -- asilvering ( talk) 18:19, 25 October 2023 (UTC)
There is a considerable difference between the hagiographer's version, where bodily elements are recurrently stressed, and Beatrice's own treatise, where the spiritual desire to be united with God is the focus. Whereas the vita is an exemplum depicting Beatrice as an exemplary, holy woman, Beatrice's own treatise is a systematic rendition of the lived faith of a contemplative woman.and
Perhaps because of her gender, both her theology and her understanding of humanity are formulated in the dialectic between God and humanity, not between man and woman.-- asilvering ( talk) 00:29, 28 October 2023 (UTC)
Beatrice's monastery of Nazareth lay in the diocese of Cambrai, where the notorious inquisitor Robert le Bougre had established his headquarters, and during her lifetime [pg 29] he put a beguine to death "on account of her true love" as Hadewijch of Brabant wrote in her List of the Perfect.-- asilvering ( talk) 01:08, 28 October 2023 (UTC)
asilvering, Moriwen, Editør, where does this nomination stand? It's been over a month since there were any posts to this review page, October 28 since Moriwen edited the article, and November 4 since asilvering did so. Can we get this nomination moving again, or should it be closed? Thank you. BlueMoonset ( talk) 03:13, 17 December 2023 (UTC)