This article is written in British English, which has its own spelling conventions (colour, travelled, centre, defence, artefact, analyse) and some terms that are used in it may be different or absent from other varieties of English. According to the relevant style guide, this should not be changed without broad consensus. |
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Most of this is copied from other articles, massively over detailed and often factually dubious. I've rewritten it. Robinvp11 ( talk) 14:58, 7 April 2020 (UTC)
<Battle of Chalgrove I’ve rewritten it declared Robinvp11 after assessing that the Battle of Chalgrove was massively over detailed. He also stated that the Battle of Chalgrove was factually dubious and copied from other articles. On what evidence has he based his opinion? Has he had published any academic articles on the Battle of Chalgrove?
Oxoniensia vol 80 pub 2015 pp 27 – 39 ‘The Military and Political Importance of the Battle of Chalgrove 1643 Lester & Lester is a peer reviewed article from which Robinvp11 uses to expouse his opinion. Robinvp11 refers to Lester & Lester page 34 and wrongly says ‘Several senior officers supposedly in Thame to collect their Regiments’ wages, helped him form a number of ad hoc units: collected around 700 men. Stapleton set out in pursuit’. The Oxoniensia vol 80 page 34 paragraph three has, ‘The 700 - 800 principal officers who collecting their regiments’ pay from Essex were probably ordered by him to ride out to intercept the Royalists. A little time before 8 am these officers were dashing towards Tetsworth and onward.’ Refer to page 37 and the last paragraph has, ‘At around 10.15 am Sir Philip Stapleton drew up the fleeing men into a body near Clare crossroads.’
Robinvp11 quoted, ‘By now, the Parliamentary troops consisted of 200 cavalry, plus the dragoons.’- Ref 7 Stevenson and Carter 1973 p. 349. Lester & Lester Oxoniensia 2015 vol 80 refers to the Late Beating Up page 5 which has, ‘Just at this time ( being now about 9 a clock) we discerned several great Bodies of the Rebels Horse and Dragooners, coming down Golder-hill towards us; from Esington and Tame: who (together with those that had before skirmished with our Rear) drew down to the bottom of a great Close, or Pasture: ordering themselves there among trees beyond a great hedge, which parted that Close from our Field. My Lord of Essex’s Relation, here mentions Captain Sanders Troop, and Captain Buller with 50 commanded men; Captain Dundasses Troop of Dragooners, with some few of Colonel Melves. But surely these were not all their Forces.’ The additional forces making up the ‘several great Bodies of the Rebel Horse’ were those Principal Officers sent by Essex who left Thame before 8 am. These troops made up the eight Cornets of Horse that faced the Royalists with five troops of Reserves left by Warpsgrove House who fought at the Battle of Chalgrove.
Stevenson & Carter quoted extensively from Lord Nugent’s ‘Some memorials of John Hampden his Party and his Times’ pub 1832 and especially volume 2 page 431. Nugent has, ‘he (Hampden) had lain that night in Watlington’ the field headquarter where his regiment were quartered. On the same page Nugent states, ‘He (Hampden) instantly mounted’ his horse and rode off alone into to fight 2,000 royalists. How else could Nugent account for Col John Hampden being at the battle of Chalgrove without his officers and/or regiment?
Stevenson and Carter’s Oxoniensia article from which Robinvp11 cites extensively is naïve in the extreme. The Oxoniensia Vol 80 article cited by Robinvp11 is my work Lester & Lester.
The History of the Rebellion and Civil Wars in England’ first edition was published 1702 – 1704 and the title page states ‘Written by Edward Earl of Clarendon. The Earl of Clarendon died 9 December 1674 in Rouen. The writer has compiled a history of Clarendon’s Civil War papers for the Bodleian Library, Oxford. The 1702 publication was written by Laurence Hyde, the Earl’s son. Sir Edward Hyde (Clarendon from 1661) was in Oxford with King Charles I on the day of the Battle of Chalgrove. They interviewed the senior parliamentarian soldiers captured hours earlier from Chalgrove. They asked the question, ‘Why were senior officers fighting as troopers’ and Hyde the prolific journalist wrote down their account. A transcription of this original document is on the webpage Battle of Chalgrove it is among the copied articles that you describe. Would you kindly restore the Battle of Chalgrove to the Wiki website so that everyone can enjoy a true and faithful account of the Battle of Chalgrove? Regards, Lester D and Lester G John Hampdens Regiment ( talk) 21:36, 28 April 2020 (UTC)/>
John Chalgrove ( talk · contribs)
This was originally added to the article page. I have removed it from the article page and placed it here for discussion. -- Kansas Bear ( talk) 21:29, 10 March 2021 (UTC)
This article is written in British English, which has its own spelling conventions (colour, travelled, centre, defence, artefact, analyse) and some terms that are used in it may be different or absent from other varieties of English. According to the relevant style guide, this should not be changed without broad consensus. |
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Battle of Chalgrove Field article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
Archives: 1 |
This article is rated B-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
The following Wikipedia contributors may be personally or professionally connected to the subject of this article. Relevant policies and guidelines may include
conflict of interest,
autobiography, and
neutral point of view.
|
Individuals with a conflict of interest, particularly those representing the subject of the article, are strongly advised not to directly edit the article. See Wikipedia:Conflict of interest. You may request corrections or suggest content here on the Talk page for independent editors to review, or contact us if the issue is urgent. |
Most of this is copied from other articles, massively over detailed and often factually dubious. I've rewritten it. Robinvp11 ( talk) 14:58, 7 April 2020 (UTC)
<Battle of Chalgrove I’ve rewritten it declared Robinvp11 after assessing that the Battle of Chalgrove was massively over detailed. He also stated that the Battle of Chalgrove was factually dubious and copied from other articles. On what evidence has he based his opinion? Has he had published any academic articles on the Battle of Chalgrove?
Oxoniensia vol 80 pub 2015 pp 27 – 39 ‘The Military and Political Importance of the Battle of Chalgrove 1643 Lester & Lester is a peer reviewed article from which Robinvp11 uses to expouse his opinion. Robinvp11 refers to Lester & Lester page 34 and wrongly says ‘Several senior officers supposedly in Thame to collect their Regiments’ wages, helped him form a number of ad hoc units: collected around 700 men. Stapleton set out in pursuit’. The Oxoniensia vol 80 page 34 paragraph three has, ‘The 700 - 800 principal officers who collecting their regiments’ pay from Essex were probably ordered by him to ride out to intercept the Royalists. A little time before 8 am these officers were dashing towards Tetsworth and onward.’ Refer to page 37 and the last paragraph has, ‘At around 10.15 am Sir Philip Stapleton drew up the fleeing men into a body near Clare crossroads.’
Robinvp11 quoted, ‘By now, the Parliamentary troops consisted of 200 cavalry, plus the dragoons.’- Ref 7 Stevenson and Carter 1973 p. 349. Lester & Lester Oxoniensia 2015 vol 80 refers to the Late Beating Up page 5 which has, ‘Just at this time ( being now about 9 a clock) we discerned several great Bodies of the Rebels Horse and Dragooners, coming down Golder-hill towards us; from Esington and Tame: who (together with those that had before skirmished with our Rear) drew down to the bottom of a great Close, or Pasture: ordering themselves there among trees beyond a great hedge, which parted that Close from our Field. My Lord of Essex’s Relation, here mentions Captain Sanders Troop, and Captain Buller with 50 commanded men; Captain Dundasses Troop of Dragooners, with some few of Colonel Melves. But surely these were not all their Forces.’ The additional forces making up the ‘several great Bodies of the Rebel Horse’ were those Principal Officers sent by Essex who left Thame before 8 am. These troops made up the eight Cornets of Horse that faced the Royalists with five troops of Reserves left by Warpsgrove House who fought at the Battle of Chalgrove.
Stevenson & Carter quoted extensively from Lord Nugent’s ‘Some memorials of John Hampden his Party and his Times’ pub 1832 and especially volume 2 page 431. Nugent has, ‘he (Hampden) had lain that night in Watlington’ the field headquarter where his regiment were quartered. On the same page Nugent states, ‘He (Hampden) instantly mounted’ his horse and rode off alone into to fight 2,000 royalists. How else could Nugent account for Col John Hampden being at the battle of Chalgrove without his officers and/or regiment?
Stevenson and Carter’s Oxoniensia article from which Robinvp11 cites extensively is naïve in the extreme. The Oxoniensia Vol 80 article cited by Robinvp11 is my work Lester & Lester.
The History of the Rebellion and Civil Wars in England’ first edition was published 1702 – 1704 and the title page states ‘Written by Edward Earl of Clarendon. The Earl of Clarendon died 9 December 1674 in Rouen. The writer has compiled a history of Clarendon’s Civil War papers for the Bodleian Library, Oxford. The 1702 publication was written by Laurence Hyde, the Earl’s son. Sir Edward Hyde (Clarendon from 1661) was in Oxford with King Charles I on the day of the Battle of Chalgrove. They interviewed the senior parliamentarian soldiers captured hours earlier from Chalgrove. They asked the question, ‘Why were senior officers fighting as troopers’ and Hyde the prolific journalist wrote down their account. A transcription of this original document is on the webpage Battle of Chalgrove it is among the copied articles that you describe. Would you kindly restore the Battle of Chalgrove to the Wiki website so that everyone can enjoy a true and faithful account of the Battle of Chalgrove? Regards, Lester D and Lester G John Hampdens Regiment ( talk) 21:36, 28 April 2020 (UTC)/>
John Chalgrove ( talk · contribs)
This was originally added to the article page. I have removed it from the article page and placed it here for discussion. -- Kansas Bear ( talk) 21:29, 10 March 2021 (UTC)