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The page for Battle of Kleidion says that the blinding of 14,000 soldiers is probably an exageration. What is the consensus of historians?
Probably is not definitely, all contemporary sources state he blinded 14,000 soldiers so until you can find some soures which can prove otherwise your statements are just POV and will be removed Struscle 13:27, 19 February 2006 (UTC)
John Skylitzes http://www.popovashapka.com/macedoniainfo/history/middle_early_samoil.htm#5 I don't know how reliable the above sources are, regarding the illuminated Chronicle of Manasses very few references can be found. The best link collection is probably this one : http://makedonija.150m.com/makedonija/medievalsourcesmacedonianhistory.htm CristianChirita 14:13, 23 February 2006 (UTC)
I'm thinking the very interesting section summarizing Basil Bulgaroktonus belongs in a literary article of its own, with a citation and link in this one.
Cranston Lamont 04:20, 7 April 2006 (UTC)
My thinking was that the book discussion concerned, not Basil's life, but a novel based on his life. But that's as far as I care to push my personal opinion.
Cranston Lamont 16:13, 7 April 2006 (UTC)
Please verify, and feel free to find some better pics. CristianChirita 15:20, 5 May 2006 (UTC)
I changed the title of "Bulgar - slayer" to "Bulgar - Killer", since the exact translation of Βουλγαροκτόνος is this one, from the word "κτήνω" (Ktino) = kill, and NOT the word "σφάζω" (sfazo)= slay. The translation Bulgar-slayer would have been right if the word was "Βουλγαροσφάχτης". —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.254.0.168 ( talk • contribs)
I am proposing that the in the section about the campaigns against the Arabs that all of the instances of the word Arab be changed to Fatimids. My reason being that the campaigns were against a dynasty originating in Egypt called the Fatimid dynasty and not was no truly even the Arab dynasties that had started in the Arabian peninsula.
A point has been raised on Gen-Med recently that no primary source calls Anna his "sister" exactly, but rather his "kinswoman". Can anyone provide a reliable source that calls her his sister? Wjhonson ( talk) 00:24, 24 March 2009 (UTC)
It's somewhat disconcerting to see that sources dating back to 1851 are being used extensively to sources material in this article. While they might not necessarily conflict with some well-known details of Basil's life, might it not be wiser to direct readers to more updated – and thus more accessible – literature? Though I have yet to read it, Catherine Holmes' recent work, Basil II and the Governance of Empire (976-1025), concerns the life of Basil and might prove a better source. Mark Whittow's Making of [Orthodox] Byzantium would also make another reliable source for Basil's reign as well. A clarification of the publication details of sources (case in point, the use of the Russian Primary Chronicle – which edition? which translation?) would also be most welcome. Some food for thought. Regards, -- Marshal Bagramyan ( talk) 05:11, 17 August 2009 (UTC)
Basil the Porphyrogenitus and Basil the Young to distinguish him from his ancestor Basil I the Macedonian, was a Byzantine emperor from the Macedonian dynasty who reigned from 10 January 976 to 15 December 1025.
This article has taken out Basil II's Armenian roots. Basil I was Armenian, so if he is Basil II's ancestor then Basil is Armenian too. Tracing Basil II's lineage shows this as well. If no objections in the next few days, I will edit the article to reflect his Armenian heretage.-- Moosh88 ( talk) 09:49, 15 April 2011 (UTC)
The Byzantine chronicler Ephraim was the first who named Basil II - “Bulgar-slayer” about 400 years after the emperor’s reign (Ephraim: Aenii Historia Chronica, Athens, 1990, pg. 109). By then (400 years latter), when the reference “Bulgar-slayer” was used for the first time, the term “Bulgarians” (Vulgaroi) was completely adopted by the Byzantines, as a designating exonym for the peoples also called “South Slavs” that they had fought against (Stilpon Kyriakides: The Northern Ethnological Boundaries of Hellenism, Tessalonica, 1955, pg. 37 ; Krste P. Misirkov: „За македонцките работи“ (On the Macedonian matters), Sofia, 1903, pg. 117, 122). If someone says I’m wrong, I need sources. Bobi987 Ivanov ( talk) 21:21, 29 March 2014 (UTC)
Shouldn't the transliteration of Βασίλειος be Vasileios? The β in Medieval Greek was pronounced as it is in Modern Greek.
-- CimonT ( talk) 18:03, 9 August 2015 (UTC)
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Tidied a few citations and references. Keith-264 ( talk) 18:52, 12 March 2017 (UTC)
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Will start soon. Iazyges Consermonor Opus meum 06:04, 11 July 2018 (UTC)
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Please note that all of these are suggestions, and can be implemented or ignored at your discretion.
Taking the long view of history, the single greatest achievement of the reign of Basil II was the conversion of the Kievan Rus to Christianity and the subsequent entry of Russia into Byzantine/Orthodox civilisation. This topic could really benefit from its own section within the article and a prominent place within the assessment section. Urselius ( talk) 08:59, 12 October 2018 (UTC)
Psellus was born in the reign of Basil II, he was at the heart of Byzantine imperial bureaucracy and undoubtedly had access to people of an older generation who had personally known the emperor and to anecdotes about him of very recent origin. There are two descriptions of aspects of Basil II that have been recently edited out that I think are important, and should be re-instated in some form. First - Psellus describes how Basil had a habit of twirling his side-whiskers with his fingers when deep in thought or angry. Not important of itself, but it is an almost unique insight to a habitual personal mannerism of an early Medieval monarch. I cannot think of another description of anyone living around 1000AD that is so personal in tone. As such I think it should be restored. Second - Psellus describes Basil's scorn for the learned classes of Byzantium. This has important implications. Psellus was a prominent member of the learned classes of Byzantium, and his description of Basil's less than flowing speech patterns is from the viewpoint of a man taught to speak in a manner directly derived from Classical Greco-Roman rhetoric. Basil's speech was not halting, but it was brusque and did not flow in the 'well oiled' way of a Byzantine rhetorician. The politics of the Byzantium until 1204 would be in many ways determined by the flux of power between brusque military men, like Basil, and polished bureaucrats like Psellus. The failure of the succession of the Macedonian house led to a period of domination by the bureaucracy, which, in turn was largely responsible for the military disasters of the period 1050-1084, despite the efforts of the soldier emperors Isaac Komnenos and Romanos Diogenes. In the person of Alexios Komnenos the military aristocracy gained political ascendancy and kept it. Basil's attitude to the likes of Psellus, and its reciprocal, is therefore a pointer to a factor of quite immense importance in Byzantine history. Urselius ( talk) 09:37, 21 October 2018 (UTC)
Just found a journal article on the physical descriptions of emperors in Byzantine writing. Have added it to the Psellus description here. Will be useful for other articles also. Urselius ( talk) 11:14, 22 October 2018 (UTC)
The following short references do not have matching full references:
If you would like help with making the reference formatting consistent in preparation for FA candidacy, ping me from here. – Jonesey95 ( talk) 14:54, 11 March 2019 (UTC)
At the end of the "later years" section, it is stated that "During the pillage of 1204, Basil's grave was desecrated by the invading Crusaders of the Fourth Crusade". However, the
given source simply states that "even the tombs of emperors, including that of the great Justinian I, were opened up and their precious contents removed". Even if it appears likely that the desecration of Basil's grave did really happen, I believe that we need a more specific source backing this claim. A similar story also appears at
Epitaph on the tomb of Basil II where it is also reported that the corpse was dumped into the street, yet none of the sources used there seem to mention the issue.
I remember having read somewhere that when Constantinople was retaken in 1261, the Greeks found Basil's corpse on a rooftop with a flute in his hands, mockingly arranged to look like he was playing it. Unfortunately I can't recall where I did read it and if it were a reliable source.
Khruner (
talk) 19:31, 31 August 2020 (UTC)
May someone tell me why I can't change the religion to "Eastern Orthodox" Christianity ?
As Chalcedonian Christianity wasn't a real religion, it's just a periodical name.
Thanks. John.sa1025 ( talk) 15:47, 11 October 2021 (UTC)
Basil II has been listed as one of the History good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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This
level-4 vital article is rated GA-class on Wikipedia's
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The page for Battle of Kleidion says that the blinding of 14,000 soldiers is probably an exageration. What is the consensus of historians?
Probably is not definitely, all contemporary sources state he blinded 14,000 soldiers so until you can find some soures which can prove otherwise your statements are just POV and will be removed Struscle 13:27, 19 February 2006 (UTC)
John Skylitzes http://www.popovashapka.com/macedoniainfo/history/middle_early_samoil.htm#5 I don't know how reliable the above sources are, regarding the illuminated Chronicle of Manasses very few references can be found. The best link collection is probably this one : http://makedonija.150m.com/makedonija/medievalsourcesmacedonianhistory.htm CristianChirita 14:13, 23 February 2006 (UTC)
I'm thinking the very interesting section summarizing Basil Bulgaroktonus belongs in a literary article of its own, with a citation and link in this one.
Cranston Lamont 04:20, 7 April 2006 (UTC)
My thinking was that the book discussion concerned, not Basil's life, but a novel based on his life. But that's as far as I care to push my personal opinion.
Cranston Lamont 16:13, 7 April 2006 (UTC)
Please verify, and feel free to find some better pics. CristianChirita 15:20, 5 May 2006 (UTC)
I changed the title of "Bulgar - slayer" to "Bulgar - Killer", since the exact translation of Βουλγαροκτόνος is this one, from the word "κτήνω" (Ktino) = kill, and NOT the word "σφάζω" (sfazo)= slay. The translation Bulgar-slayer would have been right if the word was "Βουλγαροσφάχτης". —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.254.0.168 ( talk • contribs)
I am proposing that the in the section about the campaigns against the Arabs that all of the instances of the word Arab be changed to Fatimids. My reason being that the campaigns were against a dynasty originating in Egypt called the Fatimid dynasty and not was no truly even the Arab dynasties that had started in the Arabian peninsula.
A point has been raised on Gen-Med recently that no primary source calls Anna his "sister" exactly, but rather his "kinswoman". Can anyone provide a reliable source that calls her his sister? Wjhonson ( talk) 00:24, 24 March 2009 (UTC)
It's somewhat disconcerting to see that sources dating back to 1851 are being used extensively to sources material in this article. While they might not necessarily conflict with some well-known details of Basil's life, might it not be wiser to direct readers to more updated – and thus more accessible – literature? Though I have yet to read it, Catherine Holmes' recent work, Basil II and the Governance of Empire (976-1025), concerns the life of Basil and might prove a better source. Mark Whittow's Making of [Orthodox] Byzantium would also make another reliable source for Basil's reign as well. A clarification of the publication details of sources (case in point, the use of the Russian Primary Chronicle – which edition? which translation?) would also be most welcome. Some food for thought. Regards, -- Marshal Bagramyan ( talk) 05:11, 17 August 2009 (UTC)
Basil the Porphyrogenitus and Basil the Young to distinguish him from his ancestor Basil I the Macedonian, was a Byzantine emperor from the Macedonian dynasty who reigned from 10 January 976 to 15 December 1025.
This article has taken out Basil II's Armenian roots. Basil I was Armenian, so if he is Basil II's ancestor then Basil is Armenian too. Tracing Basil II's lineage shows this as well. If no objections in the next few days, I will edit the article to reflect his Armenian heretage.-- Moosh88 ( talk) 09:49, 15 April 2011 (UTC)
The Byzantine chronicler Ephraim was the first who named Basil II - “Bulgar-slayer” about 400 years after the emperor’s reign (Ephraim: Aenii Historia Chronica, Athens, 1990, pg. 109). By then (400 years latter), when the reference “Bulgar-slayer” was used for the first time, the term “Bulgarians” (Vulgaroi) was completely adopted by the Byzantines, as a designating exonym for the peoples also called “South Slavs” that they had fought against (Stilpon Kyriakides: The Northern Ethnological Boundaries of Hellenism, Tessalonica, 1955, pg. 37 ; Krste P. Misirkov: „За македонцките работи“ (On the Macedonian matters), Sofia, 1903, pg. 117, 122). If someone says I’m wrong, I need sources. Bobi987 Ivanov ( talk) 21:21, 29 March 2014 (UTC)
Shouldn't the transliteration of Βασίλειος be Vasileios? The β in Medieval Greek was pronounced as it is in Modern Greek.
-- CimonT ( talk) 18:03, 9 August 2015 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on Basil II. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
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After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
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Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 01:40, 28 October 2016 (UTC)
Tidied a few citations and references. Keith-264 ( talk) 18:52, 12 March 2017 (UTC)
GA toolbox |
---|
Reviewing |
Reviewer: Iazyges ( talk · contribs) 06:04, 11 July 2018 (UTC)
Will start soon. Iazyges Consermonor Opus meum 06:04, 11 July 2018 (UTC)
GA Criteria
|
---|
GA Criteria:
|
Please note that all of these are suggestions, and can be implemented or ignored at your discretion.
Taking the long view of history, the single greatest achievement of the reign of Basil II was the conversion of the Kievan Rus to Christianity and the subsequent entry of Russia into Byzantine/Orthodox civilisation. This topic could really benefit from its own section within the article and a prominent place within the assessment section. Urselius ( talk) 08:59, 12 October 2018 (UTC)
Psellus was born in the reign of Basil II, he was at the heart of Byzantine imperial bureaucracy and undoubtedly had access to people of an older generation who had personally known the emperor and to anecdotes about him of very recent origin. There are two descriptions of aspects of Basil II that have been recently edited out that I think are important, and should be re-instated in some form. First - Psellus describes how Basil had a habit of twirling his side-whiskers with his fingers when deep in thought or angry. Not important of itself, but it is an almost unique insight to a habitual personal mannerism of an early Medieval monarch. I cannot think of another description of anyone living around 1000AD that is so personal in tone. As such I think it should be restored. Second - Psellus describes Basil's scorn for the learned classes of Byzantium. This has important implications. Psellus was a prominent member of the learned classes of Byzantium, and his description of Basil's less than flowing speech patterns is from the viewpoint of a man taught to speak in a manner directly derived from Classical Greco-Roman rhetoric. Basil's speech was not halting, but it was brusque and did not flow in the 'well oiled' way of a Byzantine rhetorician. The politics of the Byzantium until 1204 would be in many ways determined by the flux of power between brusque military men, like Basil, and polished bureaucrats like Psellus. The failure of the succession of the Macedonian house led to a period of domination by the bureaucracy, which, in turn was largely responsible for the military disasters of the period 1050-1084, despite the efforts of the soldier emperors Isaac Komnenos and Romanos Diogenes. In the person of Alexios Komnenos the military aristocracy gained political ascendancy and kept it. Basil's attitude to the likes of Psellus, and its reciprocal, is therefore a pointer to a factor of quite immense importance in Byzantine history. Urselius ( talk) 09:37, 21 October 2018 (UTC)
Just found a journal article on the physical descriptions of emperors in Byzantine writing. Have added it to the Psellus description here. Will be useful for other articles also. Urselius ( talk) 11:14, 22 October 2018 (UTC)
The following short references do not have matching full references:
If you would like help with making the reference formatting consistent in preparation for FA candidacy, ping me from here. – Jonesey95 ( talk) 14:54, 11 March 2019 (UTC)
At the end of the "later years" section, it is stated that "During the pillage of 1204, Basil's grave was desecrated by the invading Crusaders of the Fourth Crusade". However, the
given source simply states that "even the tombs of emperors, including that of the great Justinian I, were opened up and their precious contents removed". Even if it appears likely that the desecration of Basil's grave did really happen, I believe that we need a more specific source backing this claim. A similar story also appears at
Epitaph on the tomb of Basil II where it is also reported that the corpse was dumped into the street, yet none of the sources used there seem to mention the issue.
I remember having read somewhere that when Constantinople was retaken in 1261, the Greeks found Basil's corpse on a rooftop with a flute in his hands, mockingly arranged to look like he was playing it. Unfortunately I can't recall where I did read it and if it were a reliable source.
Khruner (
talk) 19:31, 31 August 2020 (UTC)
May someone tell me why I can't change the religion to "Eastern Orthodox" Christianity ?
As Chalcedonian Christianity wasn't a real religion, it's just a periodical name.
Thanks. John.sa1025 ( talk) 15:47, 11 October 2021 (UTC)