This article is rated B-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Wait a tick...we already have an article on Pan-Arabism, which is on the same topic. Shouldn't we merge these articles into one, and turn the remaining one into a redirect? RK 00:25, 18 Sep 2003 (UTC)
How can anyone dispute the neutrality of this entry, its concise and to the point without any of the leanings for or against such an idea. -
IbnRasheed
If someone has a POV objection, they should state it here before adding the template. - Mustafaa 16:52, 3 Jun 2005 (UTC)
It is mentioned that Sykes is the one that proposed the flag colours. However, up to my knowledge it is based on a verse of poetry by Safi al-din al-Hilli صفي الدين الحلي (forteenth century) which was quite nationalist. The verse is:
سُودٌ وقائِعُنا بيضٌ صنائِعُنا======خضرٌ مرابِعُنا حمرٌ مواضِينا
Which specifically mentions the four colours (black, white, green and red) in a verse describing Arabs. I don't have a reference, but I'm sure there is if someone is determined to find one. -- Maha Odeh 05:27, 23 August 2007 (UTC)
George Antonious deserves much more than a "see also" link at the end. Also, there should be some mention of the fact that the Arabic language has two quite distinct and separate words for "nationalism": wataniyya وطنية (loyalty to one's home region or specific country) and qawmiyya قومية (broad pan-Arabism). Without being seeking to become polemical, it seems only too obvious that qawmiyya has a distinct lack of specific practical concrete achievements, when compared with the broad sweeping claims and grandiose bombastic rhetoric that were closely associated with it over many decades -- and there should be some way of alluding to this fact in the article... AnonMoos ( talk) 10:39, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
Questionable stuff in the article with no or scant sources:
Within the Arab nationalist movement are three differentiations: the Arab nation, Arab nationalism, and pan-Arab unity ... Local patriotism centered on individual Arab countries was incorporated into the framework of Arab nationalism starting in the 1920s. --
BoogaLouie (
talk) 21:49, 23 February 2010 (UTC)
after reading this article i noticed in the hisotry section there was a gap in the years between the end of WWI and the end of WWII, so i've copied content covering this period from Racism in the Palestinian territories#British Mandate in Palestine. this content is already related, but it could be improved to make it more relevant to this particular aticle. WookieInHeat ( talk) 20:00, 16 November 2010 (UTC)
There seems to be a lot of emphasis on Haj Amin al-Husayni and the implication that Arab nationalism is rabidly racist. The entire 1920s-40s section is centered on the Arab national movement in Palestine during the colonial period, but more so on the idea that Arab nationalists were Nazis and racists. There certainly needs to be a more comprehensive and less biased section on this period of Arab history. I will edit the section (clean up, expand) and I ask anybody who is interested to please join me. Thank you. -- Al Ameer son ( talk) 04:22, 23 February 2011 (UTC)
The mufti and links to NAZIs have nothing to do with Arab nationalisms. It's like saying Zionism has links to communism, or Zionism has links with hindusim.
Wikipedia continues to be anti-arab.... all articles related to Arabs are anti-arab in a way or another. but i guess it's ok to be anti-arabs... it's not a crime,,, it's actually something being promoted these days... heads up wikipedia — Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.210.238.186 ( talk) 11:53, 28 March 2012 (UTC)
Some of the info in the "Links with Nazism" which I think many would consider controversial needs some clarification. The particular instances are "Due to al-Husayni's role of leadership and his association with the Nazi leader, he was sometimes referred to as the "fuhrer of the Arab world". Who sometimes referred to him as the "fuhrer of the Arab world"? I would presume it was his opponents, but this needs to be clarified. Similarly, in the sentence "In 1935, Jamal al-Husayni (Haj Amin's brother) established the Palestine Arab Party, the party was used to create the "fascist-style" youth organization, al-Futuwwa; also sometimes called the "Nazi Scouts." Again, who sometimes called them the "Nazi Scouts"? -- Al Ameer son ( talk) 23:09, 18 March 2011 (UTC)
I have some concerns with this section and they do not relate to WP:Censorship. One problem is much of the section, especially about the mufti, are irrelevant to this article. It is clear that the mufti was not an Arab nationalist. Sources used in this article, including some used in this section, emphasize the fact that he was not a pan-Arabist, but actually a Palestinian nationalist or a pan-Islamist or both. He may have rode the wave of Arab nationalism which was dominant in this time period to help his own cause and his role in the general Arab movement should be mentioned and is mentioned in the article. It is also made clear in the article that the mufti was not an Arab nationalist. However, the first passage of the "Links with Nazism" section completely focuses on the mufti and his ties with Hitler as if the mufti was a representative of the Arab nationalists or an activist in the Arab nationalist movement. This is dangerously misleading. This article is about Arab nationalism and the history of the Arab nationalist movement and not about the relationship between the mufti and Hitler or the mufti's tirades against the Jewish people. This information belongs in the articles on the mufti, Hitler and perhaps Palestinian nationalism, but not this article. It is true, as I could tell from a wide range of sources, that a segment of the Arab population, and Arab nationalists in particular, were sympathizers of Nazi Germany, but it must be clarified as to why. Some of the same sources that are used in this section provide some context behind this sympathy; Arab nationalists at the time were in conflict with the British and French colonial authorities who were also at war with Germany and the Arab people in general fiercely opposed Zionism and Jewish settlement in Palestine. This information must be provided if it is to be a balanced section. This latter issue is why I added the POV tag.
The sentence In the 1930s, wealthy Arab youths, educated in Germany and having witnessed the rise of fascist paramilitary groups, began returning home with the idea of creating an "Arab Nazi Party". needs to be verified. Besides the only reference used to back this information, I could not find it in google books. Maybe a better search is needed.
Finally I would like to suggest again that we might need a different section centering on allegations of prejudice by Arab nationalists or Arab nationalism. In that section, we could include the ties with Nazism and anti-Semitism. This section would also include the attempted Arabization of Kurdistan by Saddam's Iraq and Hafez's Syria. We need to address these issues as soon as possible. Any ideas on how to move forward? I would prefer we discuss things here before removing information to avoid edit warring. -- Al Ameer son ( talk) 04:44, 25 March 2011 (UTC)
The sentence In the 1930s, wealthy Arab youths, educated in Germany and having witnessed the rise of fascist paramilitary groups, began returning home with the idea of creating an "Arab Nazi Party". needs to be verified. Besides the only reference used to back this information, I could not find it in google books. Maybe a better search is needed.
Palestinian students educated in Germany returned to Palestine determined to found the Arab Nazi Party of Palestine.
the section seems professionally written. type "arab nationalism nazism" into google and you get millions of hits and articles by scholarly sources. 82.102.73.55 ( talk) 19:11, 11 May 2011 (UTC)
Arab nationalism and Pan-Arabism really emphasize on the same goals and should be viewed as one in the same. Charles Essie ( talk) 18:41, 11 September 2012 (UTC)
I think it's time to reopen this discussion. Some IPs have been vandalizing the section lately, so it's caught my attention again. Like my previous stance, I support the removal of the section since it's basically a collection of tidbits trying to paint the picture that the nationalists were like Nazis or allies of Nazis, when in reality, Germany, and Nazi Germany in particular, didn't factor so much in the development of the movement. Then of course the title ("Links with Nazism) implies that Arab nationalism was an organized or unitary movement with "links" to the Nazis whereas the movement was a diverse one with different and often clashing trends: the British-aligned Hashemites and their supporters who focused on the Mid-East, the radical pan-Arab Baathists, the Istiqlalists, the Nasserists of the 50s and 60s, and independent nationalist thinkers and politicians. Some individuals within these trends harbored pro-German feeling either because in that era they had a mutual enemy in the British and French who colonized the Arabic-speaking territories or because they were plain supporters of the racist and fascist ideology of Nazism. According to the frequently cited Youssef Choueri, 19th-century German nationalism, not Nazism, was particularly inspiring to the early Arab nationalist thinkers for various reasons. To be clear, I don't support any sort of whitewashing of history and as previously suggested, I say we should merge some of the more significant passages into the main subsections in a chronological order and leave the random tidbits of individual opinions i.e. those of the Baath member Sami al-Jundi, out (at least from this article, it could be included in any of the relevant Baath articles or if someone creates Sami al-Jundi.) -- Al Ameer son ( talk) 04:35, 29 January 2013 (UTC)
Material in the article needs to be directly related to the topic of this article. I agree with Al Ameer that material on an individual Arab nationalist thought or did does not belong in this article unless it is directly related to Arab nationalism. This would be like filling the Zionism article with material on say Yitzhak Rabin's association as PM of Israel with his counterpart in South Africa in a section on Zionist links with Apartheid. That something you think should be "censored" GH? Or should we instead write according to the policies of this website, specifically WP:OR and WP:DUE? nableezy - 00:04, 31 January 2013 (UTC)
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-13610702 On 1 June 1941, a Nazi-inspired pogrom erupted in Baghdad, — Preceding unsigned comment added by InsufferableKnuts ( talk • contribs) 20:22, 15 July 2013 (UTC)
Some have argued that the Arab Spring has triggered a revival of Arab nationalism and Pan-Arabism, as there has been solidarity between the revolutionary movements in all the Arab states and the role of Arab nationalists in the revolutions. Charles Essie ( talk) 21:36, 7 July 2013 (UTC)
The recently approved Egyptian Constitution, along with its predecessors, and constitutions of some other Arab nations such as Jordan and Syria, all prominently state that their country is "part of the Arab nation". Perhaps this should be mentioned in the article somewhere? -- Yair rand ( talk) 01:04, 28 January 2014 (UTC)
The decline of Arab Nationalism caused Islam offer the Arabs a genuine ideology, unlike Arab Nationalism and Marxism-Leninism which are imported from European ideas. King Faisal of Saudi Arabia sought to counter the influences of Marxism-Leninism and Arab Nationalism in the region by promoting pan-Islamism as an alternative. He called for the establishment of the Muslim World League, visiting several Muslim countries to advocate the idea. He also engaged in a propaganda and media war with Egypt's pan-Arabist president, Gamal Abdel Nasser. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.134.201.14 ( talk) 05:22, 12 June 2014 (UTC)
This article features almost no information about Arab nationalism after the Six-Day War. The ideology did not just cease to exist after that. Arab nationalists continue to hold positions of power in many of the Arab states today. Arab nationalist groups also played key roles many subsequent conflicts throughout the Arab world (such as Black September, the Lebanese Civil War, the Iran–Iraq War, the Gulf War, the Iraq War, the first and second intifadas, the Arab Spring, the Syrian Civil War, the Arab Winter, ect.). Arab nationalism is not dead. It's very much alive. Charles Essie ( talk) 01:54, 4 July 2015 (UTC)
This article seems to think that Arab nationalism and
Islamism are mutually exclusive which is not true at all. There are many groups and personalities that have advocated a hybrid of Islamism and
pan-Arabism (such as the
Amal Movement, the
Arab Unification Party, the
Muslim Brotherhood, the
National Congress, ect.).
Pan-Islamism could also be considered an expansion of pan-Arabism (just like
Turanism is often considered and expansion of
pan-Turkism.).
Charles Essie (
talk) 00:34, 3 March 2016 (UTC)
I think it is necessary to add a new section to tackle the topic of women in Arab nationalism. There is no mention of their participation in the movements, nor their importance for the construction of the ideology, which is an area of improvement considering they were constantly used as nationalist symbols in the form of "mothers of the nation". It would be interesting to bring up the connection between their status in Arab societies and the movement, as it changed significantly in different countries as part of an attempt on modernization. In this sense, they are crucial to understand the historical process of the creation of the nation-state. Moreover, it is relevant because this link also implied certain limits to their political activism. I am already working on a draft.-- Mar Aeza ( talk) 13:37, 7 May 2023 (UTC) Mar Aeza ( talk) 10:46, 5 May 2023 (UTC)
Is somebody (preferably the editor who added them) with time, and access to the Dawisha sources, able to clean up which citations belong to which work by Dawisha? There are three different works by Dawisha cited (I have added a third today) but it's not clear which the citations refer to. I tried to avoid this problem when adding the third by putting the work title in the reference. Thanks! Yr Enw ( talk) 14:49, 1 November 2023 (UTC)
This article is rated B-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Wait a tick...we already have an article on Pan-Arabism, which is on the same topic. Shouldn't we merge these articles into one, and turn the remaining one into a redirect? RK 00:25, 18 Sep 2003 (UTC)
How can anyone dispute the neutrality of this entry, its concise and to the point without any of the leanings for or against such an idea. -
IbnRasheed
If someone has a POV objection, they should state it here before adding the template. - Mustafaa 16:52, 3 Jun 2005 (UTC)
It is mentioned that Sykes is the one that proposed the flag colours. However, up to my knowledge it is based on a verse of poetry by Safi al-din al-Hilli صفي الدين الحلي (forteenth century) which was quite nationalist. The verse is:
سُودٌ وقائِعُنا بيضٌ صنائِعُنا======خضرٌ مرابِعُنا حمرٌ مواضِينا
Which specifically mentions the four colours (black, white, green and red) in a verse describing Arabs. I don't have a reference, but I'm sure there is if someone is determined to find one. -- Maha Odeh 05:27, 23 August 2007 (UTC)
George Antonious deserves much more than a "see also" link at the end. Also, there should be some mention of the fact that the Arabic language has two quite distinct and separate words for "nationalism": wataniyya وطنية (loyalty to one's home region or specific country) and qawmiyya قومية (broad pan-Arabism). Without being seeking to become polemical, it seems only too obvious that qawmiyya has a distinct lack of specific practical concrete achievements, when compared with the broad sweeping claims and grandiose bombastic rhetoric that were closely associated with it over many decades -- and there should be some way of alluding to this fact in the article... AnonMoos ( talk) 10:39, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
Questionable stuff in the article with no or scant sources:
Within the Arab nationalist movement are three differentiations: the Arab nation, Arab nationalism, and pan-Arab unity ... Local patriotism centered on individual Arab countries was incorporated into the framework of Arab nationalism starting in the 1920s. --
BoogaLouie (
talk) 21:49, 23 February 2010 (UTC)
after reading this article i noticed in the hisotry section there was a gap in the years between the end of WWI and the end of WWII, so i've copied content covering this period from Racism in the Palestinian territories#British Mandate in Palestine. this content is already related, but it could be improved to make it more relevant to this particular aticle. WookieInHeat ( talk) 20:00, 16 November 2010 (UTC)
There seems to be a lot of emphasis on Haj Amin al-Husayni and the implication that Arab nationalism is rabidly racist. The entire 1920s-40s section is centered on the Arab national movement in Palestine during the colonial period, but more so on the idea that Arab nationalists were Nazis and racists. There certainly needs to be a more comprehensive and less biased section on this period of Arab history. I will edit the section (clean up, expand) and I ask anybody who is interested to please join me. Thank you. -- Al Ameer son ( talk) 04:22, 23 February 2011 (UTC)
The mufti and links to NAZIs have nothing to do with Arab nationalisms. It's like saying Zionism has links to communism, or Zionism has links with hindusim.
Wikipedia continues to be anti-arab.... all articles related to Arabs are anti-arab in a way or another. but i guess it's ok to be anti-arabs... it's not a crime,,, it's actually something being promoted these days... heads up wikipedia — Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.210.238.186 ( talk) 11:53, 28 March 2012 (UTC)
Some of the info in the "Links with Nazism" which I think many would consider controversial needs some clarification. The particular instances are "Due to al-Husayni's role of leadership and his association with the Nazi leader, he was sometimes referred to as the "fuhrer of the Arab world". Who sometimes referred to him as the "fuhrer of the Arab world"? I would presume it was his opponents, but this needs to be clarified. Similarly, in the sentence "In 1935, Jamal al-Husayni (Haj Amin's brother) established the Palestine Arab Party, the party was used to create the "fascist-style" youth organization, al-Futuwwa; also sometimes called the "Nazi Scouts." Again, who sometimes called them the "Nazi Scouts"? -- Al Ameer son ( talk) 23:09, 18 March 2011 (UTC)
I have some concerns with this section and they do not relate to WP:Censorship. One problem is much of the section, especially about the mufti, are irrelevant to this article. It is clear that the mufti was not an Arab nationalist. Sources used in this article, including some used in this section, emphasize the fact that he was not a pan-Arabist, but actually a Palestinian nationalist or a pan-Islamist or both. He may have rode the wave of Arab nationalism which was dominant in this time period to help his own cause and his role in the general Arab movement should be mentioned and is mentioned in the article. It is also made clear in the article that the mufti was not an Arab nationalist. However, the first passage of the "Links with Nazism" section completely focuses on the mufti and his ties with Hitler as if the mufti was a representative of the Arab nationalists or an activist in the Arab nationalist movement. This is dangerously misleading. This article is about Arab nationalism and the history of the Arab nationalist movement and not about the relationship between the mufti and Hitler or the mufti's tirades against the Jewish people. This information belongs in the articles on the mufti, Hitler and perhaps Palestinian nationalism, but not this article. It is true, as I could tell from a wide range of sources, that a segment of the Arab population, and Arab nationalists in particular, were sympathizers of Nazi Germany, but it must be clarified as to why. Some of the same sources that are used in this section provide some context behind this sympathy; Arab nationalists at the time were in conflict with the British and French colonial authorities who were also at war with Germany and the Arab people in general fiercely opposed Zionism and Jewish settlement in Palestine. This information must be provided if it is to be a balanced section. This latter issue is why I added the POV tag.
The sentence In the 1930s, wealthy Arab youths, educated in Germany and having witnessed the rise of fascist paramilitary groups, began returning home with the idea of creating an "Arab Nazi Party". needs to be verified. Besides the only reference used to back this information, I could not find it in google books. Maybe a better search is needed.
Finally I would like to suggest again that we might need a different section centering on allegations of prejudice by Arab nationalists or Arab nationalism. In that section, we could include the ties with Nazism and anti-Semitism. This section would also include the attempted Arabization of Kurdistan by Saddam's Iraq and Hafez's Syria. We need to address these issues as soon as possible. Any ideas on how to move forward? I would prefer we discuss things here before removing information to avoid edit warring. -- Al Ameer son ( talk) 04:44, 25 March 2011 (UTC)
The sentence In the 1930s, wealthy Arab youths, educated in Germany and having witnessed the rise of fascist paramilitary groups, began returning home with the idea of creating an "Arab Nazi Party". needs to be verified. Besides the only reference used to back this information, I could not find it in google books. Maybe a better search is needed.
Palestinian students educated in Germany returned to Palestine determined to found the Arab Nazi Party of Palestine.
the section seems professionally written. type "arab nationalism nazism" into google and you get millions of hits and articles by scholarly sources. 82.102.73.55 ( talk) 19:11, 11 May 2011 (UTC)
Arab nationalism and Pan-Arabism really emphasize on the same goals and should be viewed as one in the same. Charles Essie ( talk) 18:41, 11 September 2012 (UTC)
I think it's time to reopen this discussion. Some IPs have been vandalizing the section lately, so it's caught my attention again. Like my previous stance, I support the removal of the section since it's basically a collection of tidbits trying to paint the picture that the nationalists were like Nazis or allies of Nazis, when in reality, Germany, and Nazi Germany in particular, didn't factor so much in the development of the movement. Then of course the title ("Links with Nazism) implies that Arab nationalism was an organized or unitary movement with "links" to the Nazis whereas the movement was a diverse one with different and often clashing trends: the British-aligned Hashemites and their supporters who focused on the Mid-East, the radical pan-Arab Baathists, the Istiqlalists, the Nasserists of the 50s and 60s, and independent nationalist thinkers and politicians. Some individuals within these trends harbored pro-German feeling either because in that era they had a mutual enemy in the British and French who colonized the Arabic-speaking territories or because they were plain supporters of the racist and fascist ideology of Nazism. According to the frequently cited Youssef Choueri, 19th-century German nationalism, not Nazism, was particularly inspiring to the early Arab nationalist thinkers for various reasons. To be clear, I don't support any sort of whitewashing of history and as previously suggested, I say we should merge some of the more significant passages into the main subsections in a chronological order and leave the random tidbits of individual opinions i.e. those of the Baath member Sami al-Jundi, out (at least from this article, it could be included in any of the relevant Baath articles or if someone creates Sami al-Jundi.) -- Al Ameer son ( talk) 04:35, 29 January 2013 (UTC)
Material in the article needs to be directly related to the topic of this article. I agree with Al Ameer that material on an individual Arab nationalist thought or did does not belong in this article unless it is directly related to Arab nationalism. This would be like filling the Zionism article with material on say Yitzhak Rabin's association as PM of Israel with his counterpart in South Africa in a section on Zionist links with Apartheid. That something you think should be "censored" GH? Or should we instead write according to the policies of this website, specifically WP:OR and WP:DUE? nableezy - 00:04, 31 January 2013 (UTC)
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-13610702 On 1 June 1941, a Nazi-inspired pogrom erupted in Baghdad, — Preceding unsigned comment added by InsufferableKnuts ( talk • contribs) 20:22, 15 July 2013 (UTC)
Some have argued that the Arab Spring has triggered a revival of Arab nationalism and Pan-Arabism, as there has been solidarity between the revolutionary movements in all the Arab states and the role of Arab nationalists in the revolutions. Charles Essie ( talk) 21:36, 7 July 2013 (UTC)
The recently approved Egyptian Constitution, along with its predecessors, and constitutions of some other Arab nations such as Jordan and Syria, all prominently state that their country is "part of the Arab nation". Perhaps this should be mentioned in the article somewhere? -- Yair rand ( talk) 01:04, 28 January 2014 (UTC)
The decline of Arab Nationalism caused Islam offer the Arabs a genuine ideology, unlike Arab Nationalism and Marxism-Leninism which are imported from European ideas. King Faisal of Saudi Arabia sought to counter the influences of Marxism-Leninism and Arab Nationalism in the region by promoting pan-Islamism as an alternative. He called for the establishment of the Muslim World League, visiting several Muslim countries to advocate the idea. He also engaged in a propaganda and media war with Egypt's pan-Arabist president, Gamal Abdel Nasser. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.134.201.14 ( talk) 05:22, 12 June 2014 (UTC)
This article features almost no information about Arab nationalism after the Six-Day War. The ideology did not just cease to exist after that. Arab nationalists continue to hold positions of power in many of the Arab states today. Arab nationalist groups also played key roles many subsequent conflicts throughout the Arab world (such as Black September, the Lebanese Civil War, the Iran–Iraq War, the Gulf War, the Iraq War, the first and second intifadas, the Arab Spring, the Syrian Civil War, the Arab Winter, ect.). Arab nationalism is not dead. It's very much alive. Charles Essie ( talk) 01:54, 4 July 2015 (UTC)
This article seems to think that Arab nationalism and
Islamism are mutually exclusive which is not true at all. There are many groups and personalities that have advocated a hybrid of Islamism and
pan-Arabism (such as the
Amal Movement, the
Arab Unification Party, the
Muslim Brotherhood, the
National Congress, ect.).
Pan-Islamism could also be considered an expansion of pan-Arabism (just like
Turanism is often considered and expansion of
pan-Turkism.).
Charles Essie (
talk) 00:34, 3 March 2016 (UTC)
I think it is necessary to add a new section to tackle the topic of women in Arab nationalism. There is no mention of their participation in the movements, nor their importance for the construction of the ideology, which is an area of improvement considering they were constantly used as nationalist symbols in the form of "mothers of the nation". It would be interesting to bring up the connection between their status in Arab societies and the movement, as it changed significantly in different countries as part of an attempt on modernization. In this sense, they are crucial to understand the historical process of the creation of the nation-state. Moreover, it is relevant because this link also implied certain limits to their political activism. I am already working on a draft.-- Mar Aeza ( talk) 13:37, 7 May 2023 (UTC) Mar Aeza ( talk) 10:46, 5 May 2023 (UTC)
Is somebody (preferably the editor who added them) with time, and access to the Dawisha sources, able to clean up which citations belong to which work by Dawisha? There are three different works by Dawisha cited (I have added a third today) but it's not clear which the citations refer to. I tried to avoid this problem when adding the third by putting the work title in the reference. Thanks! Yr Enw ( talk) 14:49, 1 November 2023 (UTC)