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I firmly believe the neutrality warning at the head of this section is inappropriate, damaging to the cause of furthering knowledge and should be removed. We must distinguish between irrational bias: the unbalanced or disingenuous presentation of evidence or a misrepresentation of facts; and bias where a choice is based on facts. For example: Am I being biased if I favour a hard, rugged head protection in a construction site over a baseball cap for protection? That is an extreme example to make my point that showing a propensity based on evidence is not necessarily an opinionated bias that we must always avoid. In this case, the author makes legitimate criticisms based on evidence. These have been balanced by the discussion on the purpose and function of ant in the remainder of the article. It would be a tragedy to remove the considerations listed here for the sake of blindly following a rule. To consider removing these limitations from publication would be to lose sight of the spirit of the rule on neutrality. In short, listing valid, legitimate limitations based on evidence or facts is not necessarily a breach of neutrality. To blindly remove accurate criticisms as a result of not properly appreciating the point of a rule, would make the knowledge landscape a poorer place for us all. Please think and do not lose sight of the point and purpose of rules. I hope that makes sense but am happy to elaborate if necessary. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 163.171.8.4 ( talk) 09:45, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
The last point in "Limitations" is not really NPOV anymore. (Although it may be true.) Especially the last sentence doesn't seem to fit into Wikipedia's style very well. (Btw, what are you trying to say with that? What should we use instead of Java? In what language/environment is development not excessively complex?) -- Jonik 19:54, 12 Jun 2005 (UTC)
There are 2 points in "Limitations" that are not limitations, they are really just complaints of someone with apparently different preferences. To wit:
In short, there are valid and conscious reasons for these design choices. Noncompliance with your personal level of comfort does not constitute a limitation to everyone else. 174.47.62.3 ( talk) —Preceding undated comment added 20:26, 19 March 2012 (UTC).
What's a multi-day build, aside from the obvious "a build that lasts more than 24 hours", which is probably not just what is meant? I don't have experience with tremendously big projects, so I'm wondering what the benefit would be of a build process that periodically stops. At least, I'm assuming that's what this is about, if persistence of state is required.
In short, could someone explain what this is about? Also, what build tools do have persistence of state? Ant was primarily designed to replace the platform-dependent "make" and associated tasks, which don't have persistence of state either, unless you go to some trouble to make intermediaries represent "state" rather than "crap that was left behind when I interrupted the build". 82.92.119.11 22:00, 6 May 2006 (UTC)
The rm example in the part about make's non-portability is a bit unfortunate — GNU make and other makes provide $(RM), so it becomes make's, not the users, problem to find a suitable tool for deleting stuff. I never invoke rm(1) directly in my files (but tend to have other, less general things invoked by make). JöG 19:12, 28 September 2006 (UTC)
This ant task has the same name as the common java command-line utility, but is really a call to the ant program's predefined library. Most likely, this function in turn then calls the command-line utility behind the scenes, as is true of many of ant's tasks.
What does that even mean? Either it does or it does not make a call to the CLI. Since it is open source, it should be possible to clarify this point. 82.10.159.229 22:13, 11 December 2006 (UTC)
I know "make" well, and have been trying to learn "ant". I could describe the heart of make in 3-4 sentences - its targets depend upon other files and it uses time stamps to avoid unnecessary builds. All I've found about ant is that it works well with Java, and it incorporates platform independence by piggybacking on Java's system call classes. I believe it could implement something like classic make with dependsets and if or unless tests, but I'm not sure it can handle individual file compiles without matching individual targets. I suspect I may be missing the river looking for trees and perhaps ant isn't designed for build avoidance. Be that as it may, this article would be improved by:
1. explaining what ant does that allows it to work effectively with Java
2. explain how it is intended to be used...
70.181.110.223 ( talk) 07:58, 6 January 2009 (UTC)
Is it retrieved manually or automatically?
According to http://ant.apache.org it is "1.8.0" and it was released "February 8, 2010".
-- Volphy ( talk) 14:59, 10 February 2010 (UTC)
I think somebody made a mistake and thought, that Apache Ivy is Ant (which it is not). I will revert to Version 1.8.0
-- C.Oezbek ( talk) 15:30, 1 March 2010 (UTC)
If XML is a limitation to makefiles, there's something wrong with you. (I know this is my viewpoint, but this is like a speech from Mitt Romney) -- Stijn Brouwer ( talk) 13:18, 7 October 2012 (UTC)
It would be nice if the Ant release history would be documented here, like
Ernstdehaan ( talk) 08:48, 11 October 2013 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on Apache Ant. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
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Hello.
There is a big problem with the word "cross-platform"; it is a weasel word. I have said a lot before, but I would like to impress upon everyone here how grave the problem is. Weasel words give zero information because their description is so broadly correct that you might as well not have that description.
Virtually, you can pick any computer program and call it cross-platform. For example:
Calling a program "cross-platform" is one problem, inserting it into the |operating system=
field of the infobox is another. There is no operating system called "cross-platform". And if a program is written for Java SE 9, it does not run on Windows XP. So, inserting it into the |operating system=
field of the infobox isn't just giving zero information; it is also giving potentially wrong information. Add the fact that there are no binary versions of Apache Ant. (I checked, but please correct me if I am wrong.) That means running it on Windows is a Herculean task of its own merit; not every nine-year-old kid could do it.
Finally, there is one matter. I only wrote this thread, because I felt obliged to respond to an act of good faith in kind. In revision 818096430, 2600:1005:b04a:9f8:e005:aef6:666a:aad7 went an extra mile to provide a source for the cross-platform claim. So, I felt obliged to write this. However Wikipedia requires everything written to have a source, but does write not everything that a given source says. We have other requirements too. (I was talking about one all along: WP:WTA.) Also, I did check the IP address's geolocation data. I am not saying more right now, except that if the IP editor plays fair, I will play fair. (Hint: A blanket revert that brings back four typos and causes inconsistency isn't exactly playing fair.)
Best regards,
Codename Lisa (
talk) 16:43, 1 January 2018 (UTC)
This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
I firmly believe the neutrality warning at the head of this section is inappropriate, damaging to the cause of furthering knowledge and should be removed. We must distinguish between irrational bias: the unbalanced or disingenuous presentation of evidence or a misrepresentation of facts; and bias where a choice is based on facts. For example: Am I being biased if I favour a hard, rugged head protection in a construction site over a baseball cap for protection? That is an extreme example to make my point that showing a propensity based on evidence is not necessarily an opinionated bias that we must always avoid. In this case, the author makes legitimate criticisms based on evidence. These have been balanced by the discussion on the purpose and function of ant in the remainder of the article. It would be a tragedy to remove the considerations listed here for the sake of blindly following a rule. To consider removing these limitations from publication would be to lose sight of the spirit of the rule on neutrality. In short, listing valid, legitimate limitations based on evidence or facts is not necessarily a breach of neutrality. To blindly remove accurate criticisms as a result of not properly appreciating the point of a rule, would make the knowledge landscape a poorer place for us all. Please think and do not lose sight of the point and purpose of rules. I hope that makes sense but am happy to elaborate if necessary. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 163.171.8.4 ( talk) 09:45, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
The last point in "Limitations" is not really NPOV anymore. (Although it may be true.) Especially the last sentence doesn't seem to fit into Wikipedia's style very well. (Btw, what are you trying to say with that? What should we use instead of Java? In what language/environment is development not excessively complex?) -- Jonik 19:54, 12 Jun 2005 (UTC)
There are 2 points in "Limitations" that are not limitations, they are really just complaints of someone with apparently different preferences. To wit:
In short, there are valid and conscious reasons for these design choices. Noncompliance with your personal level of comfort does not constitute a limitation to everyone else. 174.47.62.3 ( talk) —Preceding undated comment added 20:26, 19 March 2012 (UTC).
What's a multi-day build, aside from the obvious "a build that lasts more than 24 hours", which is probably not just what is meant? I don't have experience with tremendously big projects, so I'm wondering what the benefit would be of a build process that periodically stops. At least, I'm assuming that's what this is about, if persistence of state is required.
In short, could someone explain what this is about? Also, what build tools do have persistence of state? Ant was primarily designed to replace the platform-dependent "make" and associated tasks, which don't have persistence of state either, unless you go to some trouble to make intermediaries represent "state" rather than "crap that was left behind when I interrupted the build". 82.92.119.11 22:00, 6 May 2006 (UTC)
The rm example in the part about make's non-portability is a bit unfortunate — GNU make and other makes provide $(RM), so it becomes make's, not the users, problem to find a suitable tool for deleting stuff. I never invoke rm(1) directly in my files (but tend to have other, less general things invoked by make). JöG 19:12, 28 September 2006 (UTC)
This ant task has the same name as the common java command-line utility, but is really a call to the ant program's predefined library. Most likely, this function in turn then calls the command-line utility behind the scenes, as is true of many of ant's tasks.
What does that even mean? Either it does or it does not make a call to the CLI. Since it is open source, it should be possible to clarify this point. 82.10.159.229 22:13, 11 December 2006 (UTC)
I know "make" well, and have been trying to learn "ant". I could describe the heart of make in 3-4 sentences - its targets depend upon other files and it uses time stamps to avoid unnecessary builds. All I've found about ant is that it works well with Java, and it incorporates platform independence by piggybacking on Java's system call classes. I believe it could implement something like classic make with dependsets and if or unless tests, but I'm not sure it can handle individual file compiles without matching individual targets. I suspect I may be missing the river looking for trees and perhaps ant isn't designed for build avoidance. Be that as it may, this article would be improved by:
1. explaining what ant does that allows it to work effectively with Java
2. explain how it is intended to be used...
70.181.110.223 ( talk) 07:58, 6 January 2009 (UTC)
Is it retrieved manually or automatically?
According to http://ant.apache.org it is "1.8.0" and it was released "February 8, 2010".
-- Volphy ( talk) 14:59, 10 February 2010 (UTC)
I think somebody made a mistake and thought, that Apache Ivy is Ant (which it is not). I will revert to Version 1.8.0
-- C.Oezbek ( talk) 15:30, 1 March 2010 (UTC)
If XML is a limitation to makefiles, there's something wrong with you. (I know this is my viewpoint, but this is like a speech from Mitt Romney) -- Stijn Brouwer ( talk) 13:18, 7 October 2012 (UTC)
It would be nice if the Ant release history would be documented here, like
Ernstdehaan ( talk) 08:48, 11 October 2013 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on Apache Ant. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 18 January 2022).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 21:41, 7 July 2017 (UTC)
Hello.
There is a big problem with the word "cross-platform"; it is a weasel word. I have said a lot before, but I would like to impress upon everyone here how grave the problem is. Weasel words give zero information because their description is so broadly correct that you might as well not have that description.
Virtually, you can pick any computer program and call it cross-platform. For example:
Calling a program "cross-platform" is one problem, inserting it into the |operating system=
field of the infobox is another. There is no operating system called "cross-platform". And if a program is written for Java SE 9, it does not run on Windows XP. So, inserting it into the |operating system=
field of the infobox isn't just giving zero information; it is also giving potentially wrong information. Add the fact that there are no binary versions of Apache Ant. (I checked, but please correct me if I am wrong.) That means running it on Windows is a Herculean task of its own merit; not every nine-year-old kid could do it.
Finally, there is one matter. I only wrote this thread, because I felt obliged to respond to an act of good faith in kind. In revision 818096430, 2600:1005:b04a:9f8:e005:aef6:666a:aad7 went an extra mile to provide a source for the cross-platform claim. So, I felt obliged to write this. However Wikipedia requires everything written to have a source, but does write not everything that a given source says. We have other requirements too. (I was talking about one all along: WP:WTA.) Also, I did check the IP address's geolocation data. I am not saying more right now, except that if the IP editor plays fair, I will play fair. (Hint: A blanket revert that brings back four typos and causes inconsistency isn't exactly playing fair.)
Best regards,
Codename Lisa (
talk) 16:43, 1 January 2018 (UTC)