Aldus Manutius has been listed as one of the History good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it. | ||||||||||||||||||||||
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Aldus Manutius aka roschrambo see the page ... could be a vandalism? 81.208.106.64 13:54, 3 Jul 2004 (UTC)
According to Lynne Truss, Eats, Shoots and Leaves, Gotham Books (2004), ISBN1-592-40087-6, p.78, he had a grandson of the same name, known to history as Aldus Manutius the Younger, also a typographer of some note, though not of equal note. We should probably clarify that somehow. - Jmabel | Talk 15:54, 18 April 2006 (UTC)
This series of anonymous, uncommented, substantive edits looks probably legit, but it sure begged for an edit summary (or comments here). It cites, in a general way, a recent book on Aldus Manutius but gives no page-specific citations; it changes several ostensible facts that we previously had from the 1911 EB. Again, I'm guessing that this is all correct, but someone should definitely follow up on this and cite more specifically. - Jmabel | Talk 01:36, 24 April 2006 (UTC)
Contains orverly flowery, archaic, or difficult to read phrases such as "vast erudition" and "ripe scholars."
It also contains subjective unsubstantiated claims "with a beauty of type and paper never reached before", "To his fellow workers he was uniformly generous, free from jealousy, and prodigal of praise," describing his work as an "inalienable possession to the world," etc. Breuwi 07:04, 20 June 2006 (UTC)
Probably where opinions come from the 1911 EB, they should be overtly cited as such. And Wetman, of course if you'd like to help out with the article it would be welcome. - Jmabel | Talk 22:39, 27 August 2006 (UTC)
I'm sorry, but Manuzio's only real name is Aldo Manuzio, not Aldus Manutius, and he's widely known as Manuzio. So, I'm going to move the page from Aldus Manutius to Aldo Manuzio. -- Lorenzop 23:21, 4 February 2007 (UTC)
He certainly called himself Aldus Manutius sometimes on the title pages of the books he published: For example: "Aldi Manutii Pii Romani Grammaticarum Libri IIII", It's not unusual, in Italian as in English, for people to be called by names other than those they were baptised with, and even names they probably didn't care for. Think of hapless cases like Guercino or Sodoma. Those aren't very pretty names, certainly not what their mothers gave them at birth, but that's how they were known to their contemporaries and are still known to scholars today. — Preceding unsigned comment added by METRANGOLO1 ( talk • contribs) 14:58, 30 August 2019 (UTC)
Has anyone noticed that AM "published the First Book on the Principles of Punctuation" more than 50 years after his death? This date should be checked. GJ1535 ( talk) 20:20, 18 July 2008 (UTC)
much of this article appears to be taken verbatim from the [ Encyclopedia Britannica, 1911, pg 645] If that link is broken try searching for "Manutius' enthusiasm for Greek literature was not confined to the printing-room" in books.google.com
Anniepoo ( talk) 18:09, 15 January 2009 (UTC)
OOps... I'm a clever idiot, there's an infobox saying it has text from this encyclopedia and that it's in the public domain, reverting
Anniepoo (
talk)
Italian WP says that the "real name" Teobaldo Mannucci is a gross mistake, with no basis in history, due to an error made by Britannica. -- 79.51.182.105 ( talk) 15:02, 24 April 2011 (UTC)
the link to liberliber is outdated. Change it to http://www.liberliber.it/ 71.163.117.143 ( talk) 00:22, 20 May 2014 (UTC)
I just recently edited Aldus Manutius so it can be reviewed for GA status. I added in text citations, corrected inaccurate info. without sources, and put events in chronological order. If there are any issues please let me know. Gandhi (BYU) ( talk) 14:36, 3 July 2017 (UTC)
GA toolbox |
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Reviewing |
Reviewer: Llywrch ( talk · contribs) 07:00, 17 October 2017 (UTC)
An interesting & important subject that deserves consideration for GA status. I'm game to give this a look-over. --
llywrch (
talk) 07:00, 17 October 2017 (UTC)
I apologize for my delay in writing up my review. A week after I took this on I was distracted with Off-Wiki matters, which led to this responsibility slipping my mind. Another reason I delayed in writing this is that I prefer to review articles that are close to being Good Articles, that need only some tweaks or love. (I don't like telling anyone their prized child is ugly; it's an unpleasant interaction all around.) Nevertheless in its present shape there are some problems that need fixing, some due to how the article is written, some due to what I feel are omissions in the article.
We start encountering problems with the section "Aldine Press". First, according to the MoS -- which I usually ignore because either its dicta are common sense or easily ignorable if one follows any widely accepted & published style standard -- there should be no links in section headers. The preferred solution is to use the {{ main}} -- or a related -- template. Which I consider common sense. But more importantly, the first paragraph under this section header is confusing. After mentioning how he started the Press, the paragraph states that Manutius wanted to make the classics accessible -- yet fails to explain his strategy to accomplish this. Instead the paragraph goes on to discuss the typefaces he chose to use. And there is a section further below in the article devoted to typefaces.
In the section "Greek classics":
In the section "Latin classics":
The 1st paragraph in the section "Imprint and Motto" needs rewriting for flow. The first sentence is an assertion, which is left undeveloped. Next is a quotation lacking an attribution in the body of the text, let alone a justification for this quotation. (IMHO, one can repeat facts with little paraphrase, as long as there is a footnote indicating the source.) Then we are told about how other printers of his day stole his imprint. Last we read that it was connected to the motto Festina lente. Lots of important information, yet beyond that these facts are about his imprint & motto, there is obvious connection between these pieces. At the very least I'd divide this section into 2 paragraphs, one about the origins & meaning of these trademarks -- maybe include material about the importance of an imprint as a trademark for his time -- the other containing all of the information accumulated here about its legacy & use.
Another confused section is "Moveable book". If I understand the point of this section, the "moveable book" Manutuis created was much smaller than the typical book of the 15th century -- were they folio size? -- which he was able to create by removing the scholia or commentary the authorities for his texts had. And by making the books smaller, he was able to sell them for lower prices. (What would be the difference in price between a folio & an octavo book? While prices between eras do not always translate well, telling the reader that, say, a folio cost 50 ducats while an octavo cost 20 ducats does communicate something to the reader. (NB -- The prices are fictional, just to convey my point.) This section needs a rewrite.
In the "Marriage & personal life" section, I'd break up the first paragraph into two. One about his wife & family, including information about his children such as their names. The other about his misadventure with Frederico de Ceresara -- & some information about who he was. (A friend? An employee? Just someone he met on the road?) This section also needs a rewrite.
As a last point, I don't see the utility of the section "Publications". The article Aldine Press already presents a list of all of the titles his business published.
I apologize again for my delay, & hope my comments were worth the wait. -- llywrch ( talk) 21:25, 6 December 2017 (UTC)
llywrch Currently, I am working on edits for Manutius' page. I would like to rearrange some of the topics. I believe adding the Greek and Latin classics to his "accomplisments as a publisher" would increase understanding. It would also help with flow within the Aldine Press section. I'll keep you updated with my edits. Thank you for your review. Gandhi (BYU) ( talk) 22:17, 18 January 2018 (UTC)
llywrch, I have edited Manutius' page. If there are any other issues please let me know. Gandhi (BYU) ( talk) 20:31, 1 March 2018 (UTC)
llywrch, I organized the topics to fix flow. If you have any suggestions to improve this please let me know. Gandhi (BYU) ( talk) 17:26, 9 March 2018 (UTC)
llywrch, is there anything else this article needs to pass? Gandhi (BYU) ( talk) 21:10, 27 March 2018 (UTC)
llywrch, please link me to your next review of this page. As Wikipedia is a collaborative effort, I doubt anyone will feel hurt by your review. I am excited to work together to fix up Manutius' page and look forward to collaborating in the future. Gandhi (BYU) ( talk) 16:38, 30 March 2018 (UTC)
llywrch, I have followed up with your suggested edits. Below are some explanations, updates, and questions about the article and your review. Gandhi (BYU) ( talk) 16:42, 6 April 2018 (UTC)
Apparently I forgot to sign my name. Thank you for reviewing this article, llywrch. I look forward to the next steps. Gandhi (BYU) ( talk) 20:05, 10 April 2018 (UTC)
Gandhi (BYU), I've looked this draft over. We're almost there. I made a few minor edits; it made more sense for me to do that than to flag them & ask you to do it. But here's my responses.
Hope you don't mind I was more prompt to respond this time. ;-) llywrch ( talk) 06:30, 11 April 2018 (UTC)
llywrch, thank you for your promptness!
I am happy to see Manutius' page coming together.21:47, 11 April 2018 (UTC)
For whatever reason this didn't leave my signature. llywrch, you still see this. Gandhi (BYU) ( talk) 16:45, 2 May 2018 (UTC)
llywrch, I nominated Aldus Manutius for Featured Article. If you would like to check out my revisions or have thoughts on improvements please let me know. Gandhi (BYU) ( talk) 19:16, 13 August 2018 (UTC)
Aldus Manutius has been listed as one of the History good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it. | ||||||||||||||||||||||
|
This
level-5 vital article is rated GA-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
The
Wikimedia Foundation's
Terms of Use require that editors disclose their "employer, client, and affiliation" with respect to any paid contribution; see
WP:PAID. For advice about reviewing paid contributions, see
WP:COIRESPONSE.
|
Aldus Manutius aka roschrambo see the page ... could be a vandalism? 81.208.106.64 13:54, 3 Jul 2004 (UTC)
According to Lynne Truss, Eats, Shoots and Leaves, Gotham Books (2004), ISBN1-592-40087-6, p.78, he had a grandson of the same name, known to history as Aldus Manutius the Younger, also a typographer of some note, though not of equal note. We should probably clarify that somehow. - Jmabel | Talk 15:54, 18 April 2006 (UTC)
This series of anonymous, uncommented, substantive edits looks probably legit, but it sure begged for an edit summary (or comments here). It cites, in a general way, a recent book on Aldus Manutius but gives no page-specific citations; it changes several ostensible facts that we previously had from the 1911 EB. Again, I'm guessing that this is all correct, but someone should definitely follow up on this and cite more specifically. - Jmabel | Talk 01:36, 24 April 2006 (UTC)
Contains orverly flowery, archaic, or difficult to read phrases such as "vast erudition" and "ripe scholars."
It also contains subjective unsubstantiated claims "with a beauty of type and paper never reached before", "To his fellow workers he was uniformly generous, free from jealousy, and prodigal of praise," describing his work as an "inalienable possession to the world," etc. Breuwi 07:04, 20 June 2006 (UTC)
Probably where opinions come from the 1911 EB, they should be overtly cited as such. And Wetman, of course if you'd like to help out with the article it would be welcome. - Jmabel | Talk 22:39, 27 August 2006 (UTC)
I'm sorry, but Manuzio's only real name is Aldo Manuzio, not Aldus Manutius, and he's widely known as Manuzio. So, I'm going to move the page from Aldus Manutius to Aldo Manuzio. -- Lorenzop 23:21, 4 February 2007 (UTC)
He certainly called himself Aldus Manutius sometimes on the title pages of the books he published: For example: "Aldi Manutii Pii Romani Grammaticarum Libri IIII", It's not unusual, in Italian as in English, for people to be called by names other than those they were baptised with, and even names they probably didn't care for. Think of hapless cases like Guercino or Sodoma. Those aren't very pretty names, certainly not what their mothers gave them at birth, but that's how they were known to their contemporaries and are still known to scholars today. — Preceding unsigned comment added by METRANGOLO1 ( talk • contribs) 14:58, 30 August 2019 (UTC)
Has anyone noticed that AM "published the First Book on the Principles of Punctuation" more than 50 years after his death? This date should be checked. GJ1535 ( talk) 20:20, 18 July 2008 (UTC)
much of this article appears to be taken verbatim from the [ Encyclopedia Britannica, 1911, pg 645] If that link is broken try searching for "Manutius' enthusiasm for Greek literature was not confined to the printing-room" in books.google.com
Anniepoo ( talk) 18:09, 15 January 2009 (UTC)
OOps... I'm a clever idiot, there's an infobox saying it has text from this encyclopedia and that it's in the public domain, reverting
Anniepoo (
talk)
Italian WP says that the "real name" Teobaldo Mannucci is a gross mistake, with no basis in history, due to an error made by Britannica. -- 79.51.182.105 ( talk) 15:02, 24 April 2011 (UTC)
the link to liberliber is outdated. Change it to http://www.liberliber.it/ 71.163.117.143 ( talk) 00:22, 20 May 2014 (UTC)
I just recently edited Aldus Manutius so it can be reviewed for GA status. I added in text citations, corrected inaccurate info. without sources, and put events in chronological order. If there are any issues please let me know. Gandhi (BYU) ( talk) 14:36, 3 July 2017 (UTC)
GA toolbox |
---|
Reviewing |
Reviewer: Llywrch ( talk · contribs) 07:00, 17 October 2017 (UTC)
An interesting & important subject that deserves consideration for GA status. I'm game to give this a look-over. --
llywrch (
talk) 07:00, 17 October 2017 (UTC)
I apologize for my delay in writing up my review. A week after I took this on I was distracted with Off-Wiki matters, which led to this responsibility slipping my mind. Another reason I delayed in writing this is that I prefer to review articles that are close to being Good Articles, that need only some tweaks or love. (I don't like telling anyone their prized child is ugly; it's an unpleasant interaction all around.) Nevertheless in its present shape there are some problems that need fixing, some due to how the article is written, some due to what I feel are omissions in the article.
We start encountering problems with the section "Aldine Press". First, according to the MoS -- which I usually ignore because either its dicta are common sense or easily ignorable if one follows any widely accepted & published style standard -- there should be no links in section headers. The preferred solution is to use the {{ main}} -- or a related -- template. Which I consider common sense. But more importantly, the first paragraph under this section header is confusing. After mentioning how he started the Press, the paragraph states that Manutius wanted to make the classics accessible -- yet fails to explain his strategy to accomplish this. Instead the paragraph goes on to discuss the typefaces he chose to use. And there is a section further below in the article devoted to typefaces.
In the section "Greek classics":
In the section "Latin classics":
The 1st paragraph in the section "Imprint and Motto" needs rewriting for flow. The first sentence is an assertion, which is left undeveloped. Next is a quotation lacking an attribution in the body of the text, let alone a justification for this quotation. (IMHO, one can repeat facts with little paraphrase, as long as there is a footnote indicating the source.) Then we are told about how other printers of his day stole his imprint. Last we read that it was connected to the motto Festina lente. Lots of important information, yet beyond that these facts are about his imprint & motto, there is obvious connection between these pieces. At the very least I'd divide this section into 2 paragraphs, one about the origins & meaning of these trademarks -- maybe include material about the importance of an imprint as a trademark for his time -- the other containing all of the information accumulated here about its legacy & use.
Another confused section is "Moveable book". If I understand the point of this section, the "moveable book" Manutuis created was much smaller than the typical book of the 15th century -- were they folio size? -- which he was able to create by removing the scholia or commentary the authorities for his texts had. And by making the books smaller, he was able to sell them for lower prices. (What would be the difference in price between a folio & an octavo book? While prices between eras do not always translate well, telling the reader that, say, a folio cost 50 ducats while an octavo cost 20 ducats does communicate something to the reader. (NB -- The prices are fictional, just to convey my point.) This section needs a rewrite.
In the "Marriage & personal life" section, I'd break up the first paragraph into two. One about his wife & family, including information about his children such as their names. The other about his misadventure with Frederico de Ceresara -- & some information about who he was. (A friend? An employee? Just someone he met on the road?) This section also needs a rewrite.
As a last point, I don't see the utility of the section "Publications". The article Aldine Press already presents a list of all of the titles his business published.
I apologize again for my delay, & hope my comments were worth the wait. -- llywrch ( talk) 21:25, 6 December 2017 (UTC)
llywrch Currently, I am working on edits for Manutius' page. I would like to rearrange some of the topics. I believe adding the Greek and Latin classics to his "accomplisments as a publisher" would increase understanding. It would also help with flow within the Aldine Press section. I'll keep you updated with my edits. Thank you for your review. Gandhi (BYU) ( talk) 22:17, 18 January 2018 (UTC)
llywrch, I have edited Manutius' page. If there are any other issues please let me know. Gandhi (BYU) ( talk) 20:31, 1 March 2018 (UTC)
llywrch, I organized the topics to fix flow. If you have any suggestions to improve this please let me know. Gandhi (BYU) ( talk) 17:26, 9 March 2018 (UTC)
llywrch, is there anything else this article needs to pass? Gandhi (BYU) ( talk) 21:10, 27 March 2018 (UTC)
llywrch, please link me to your next review of this page. As Wikipedia is a collaborative effort, I doubt anyone will feel hurt by your review. I am excited to work together to fix up Manutius' page and look forward to collaborating in the future. Gandhi (BYU) ( talk) 16:38, 30 March 2018 (UTC)
llywrch, I have followed up with your suggested edits. Below are some explanations, updates, and questions about the article and your review. Gandhi (BYU) ( talk) 16:42, 6 April 2018 (UTC)
Apparently I forgot to sign my name. Thank you for reviewing this article, llywrch. I look forward to the next steps. Gandhi (BYU) ( talk) 20:05, 10 April 2018 (UTC)
Gandhi (BYU), I've looked this draft over. We're almost there. I made a few minor edits; it made more sense for me to do that than to flag them & ask you to do it. But here's my responses.
Hope you don't mind I was more prompt to respond this time. ;-) llywrch ( talk) 06:30, 11 April 2018 (UTC)
llywrch, thank you for your promptness!
I am happy to see Manutius' page coming together.21:47, 11 April 2018 (UTC)
For whatever reason this didn't leave my signature. llywrch, you still see this. Gandhi (BYU) ( talk) 16:45, 2 May 2018 (UTC)
llywrch, I nominated Aldus Manutius for Featured Article. If you would like to check out my revisions or have thoughts on improvements please let me know. Gandhi (BYU) ( talk) 19:16, 13 August 2018 (UTC)