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On 24 October 2022, it was proposed that this article be moved from Alchemy and chemistry in the medieval Islamic world to Alchemy in the medieval Islamic world. The result of the discussion was moved. |
"Alchemy in Islam differs from traditional alchemy in certain ways, one of which is that Muslim alchemists did not believe in the creation of life in the laboratory."
But according to another wikipedia article on the "Takwin" (a artificial creature created by alchemy) it states the following: "Takwin (Arabic: تكوين) was a goal of certain Ismaili alchemists, notably Jabir ibn Hayyanit ..."
Bill-
Aug 5, 2007
Why were the fact checks removed? All claims need to be referenced.
Bill 24 May 2008 (UTC)
All branches of "chemistry" where under the umbrella name of Alchemy right up until the latter part of the 1700's, when Europeans readopted atomic theory, which itself was also theorised by Europeans, at an age when the people of the Arabian peninsula where living in caves . I am not wanting to belittle the vast contribution made by the Muslim alchemists, but i do find it annoying when people create false history, especially when writing “but later there were disputes between the traditional alchemists and the practical chemists who discredited alchemy”. This is a prime example of innovation so as to crate yet another myth of high utopian Islamic civilisation, if the author had written rubbish about the Islamic faith, then he would have been stoned to death by now. Face the fact mate, Alchemy was alchemy until it became separated by Europeans.
Ahmadwill ( talk) 18:09, 6 August 2008 (UTC)
Yes it seems obvious the poster Ahmadwill is posting simply for provocational reasons.
How was Ahmadwill's comment in "good faith"? Saying "at an age when the people of the Arabian peninsula where living in caves" and "if the author had written rubbish about the Islamic faith, then he would have been stoned to death by now." is in good faith? 70.187.179.139 ( talk) 14:10, 18 April 2012 (UTC)
So when did the practice of "Islamic Alchemy" end? I dont think this article is sufficient without this timeline information.
Henry123ifa
No consensus to move. Vegaswikian ( talk) 01:38, 23 May 2011 (UTC)
Alchemy and chemistry in medieval Islam → Alchemy in medieval Islam – I am proposing this move that I thought would be non-controversial as there is no reliable source for practical chemistry J8079s ( talk) 01:43, 16 May 2011 (UTC)
Just a quick note as to why I have assessed this article as start class.
Overall I feel that the article presents some starting points for research - names, places, years - but doesn't yet present a coherent narrative or leave me with any take-home points. As the quality scale says, "provides some meaningful content but the majority of readers will want more."
Cheers,
Thparkth ( talk) 20:18, 12 October 2011 (UTC)
I think all the information currently in this article are relevant, but could be restructured to make it flow better. Some more research into the effects should be done to provide readers with a better understanding of the importance of this topic.
DylanDunbar24 ( talk) 16:46, 25 September 2020 (UTC)
I added some addition info the description of Jabir Hayyan and his life, work in alchemy, and contributions. Just some minor stuff, but necessary nonetheless. DylanDunbar24 ( talk) 17:07, 9 October 2020 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: moved. Per consensus. ( closed by non-admin page mover) – robertsky ( talk) 10:27, 31 October 2022 (UTC)
Alchemy and chemistry in the medieval Islamic world → Alchemy in the medieval Islamic world – It is convoluted to have Alchemy and chemistry in the same title. Medieval alchemy and chemistry are synonymous. While some Islamic alchemy may have come close to 'early chemistry', the emergence of the science proper is placed at History of chemistry in the 17th and 18th centuries. The present title presents needless tautology when the nuance would be better expounded in-text. Iskandar323 ( talk) 07:27, 24 October 2022 (UTC)
The numbered references are a mess. The first reference to Holmyard is 21 pp. 86-92, Holmyard 1990. But there is no Holmyard 1990. Has someone cut and pasted bits of his unmarked undergraduate essay into this text? Cvhorie ( talk) 16:36, 17 December 2023 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Alchemy in the medieval Islamic world article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
Archives: 1Auto-archiving period: 365 days |
This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
On 24 October 2022, it was proposed that this article be moved from Alchemy and chemistry in the medieval Islamic world to Alchemy in the medieval Islamic world. The result of the discussion was moved. |
"Alchemy in Islam differs from traditional alchemy in certain ways, one of which is that Muslim alchemists did not believe in the creation of life in the laboratory."
But according to another wikipedia article on the "Takwin" (a artificial creature created by alchemy) it states the following: "Takwin (Arabic: تكوين) was a goal of certain Ismaili alchemists, notably Jabir ibn Hayyanit ..."
Bill-
Aug 5, 2007
Why were the fact checks removed? All claims need to be referenced.
Bill 24 May 2008 (UTC)
All branches of "chemistry" where under the umbrella name of Alchemy right up until the latter part of the 1700's, when Europeans readopted atomic theory, which itself was also theorised by Europeans, at an age when the people of the Arabian peninsula where living in caves . I am not wanting to belittle the vast contribution made by the Muslim alchemists, but i do find it annoying when people create false history, especially when writing “but later there were disputes between the traditional alchemists and the practical chemists who discredited alchemy”. This is a prime example of innovation so as to crate yet another myth of high utopian Islamic civilisation, if the author had written rubbish about the Islamic faith, then he would have been stoned to death by now. Face the fact mate, Alchemy was alchemy until it became separated by Europeans.
Ahmadwill ( talk) 18:09, 6 August 2008 (UTC)
Yes it seems obvious the poster Ahmadwill is posting simply for provocational reasons.
How was Ahmadwill's comment in "good faith"? Saying "at an age when the people of the Arabian peninsula where living in caves" and "if the author had written rubbish about the Islamic faith, then he would have been stoned to death by now." is in good faith? 70.187.179.139 ( talk) 14:10, 18 April 2012 (UTC)
So when did the practice of "Islamic Alchemy" end? I dont think this article is sufficient without this timeline information.
Henry123ifa
No consensus to move. Vegaswikian ( talk) 01:38, 23 May 2011 (UTC)
Alchemy and chemistry in medieval Islam → Alchemy in medieval Islam – I am proposing this move that I thought would be non-controversial as there is no reliable source for practical chemistry J8079s ( talk) 01:43, 16 May 2011 (UTC)
Just a quick note as to why I have assessed this article as start class.
Overall I feel that the article presents some starting points for research - names, places, years - but doesn't yet present a coherent narrative or leave me with any take-home points. As the quality scale says, "provides some meaningful content but the majority of readers will want more."
Cheers,
Thparkth ( talk) 20:18, 12 October 2011 (UTC)
I think all the information currently in this article are relevant, but could be restructured to make it flow better. Some more research into the effects should be done to provide readers with a better understanding of the importance of this topic.
DylanDunbar24 ( talk) 16:46, 25 September 2020 (UTC)
I added some addition info the description of Jabir Hayyan and his life, work in alchemy, and contributions. Just some minor stuff, but necessary nonetheless. DylanDunbar24 ( talk) 17:07, 9 October 2020 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: moved. Per consensus. ( closed by non-admin page mover) – robertsky ( talk) 10:27, 31 October 2022 (UTC)
Alchemy and chemistry in the medieval Islamic world → Alchemy in the medieval Islamic world – It is convoluted to have Alchemy and chemistry in the same title. Medieval alchemy and chemistry are synonymous. While some Islamic alchemy may have come close to 'early chemistry', the emergence of the science proper is placed at History of chemistry in the 17th and 18th centuries. The present title presents needless tautology when the nuance would be better expounded in-text. Iskandar323 ( talk) 07:27, 24 October 2022 (UTC)
The numbered references are a mess. The first reference to Holmyard is 21 pp. 86-92, Holmyard 1990. But there is no Holmyard 1990. Has someone cut and pasted bits of his unmarked undergraduate essay into this text? Cvhorie ( talk) 16:36, 17 December 2023 (UTC)