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Should it be under Norway when it is an director of an independent non state organisation making a statement? All the other countries are statements from their government. 80.217.100.31 ( talk) 01:34, 9 March 2024 (UTC)
Why is the arabic version and the english version wildly different?
The english version: "On 17 October 2023, an explosion took place in the parking lot of the courtyard of al-Ahli Arab Hospital in Gaza City during the Israel–Hamas war, resulting in a large number of fatalities and injuries among displaced Palestinians seeking shelter there." "The consensus from various independent studies of videos, images, and eyewitness reports of the explosion, its aftermath, and the blast area suggests that an errant rocket launch from within Gaza is the most probable cause. While this is not a conclusive finding, it is currently considered the likeliest explanation based on the evidence gathered in investigations"
The arabic version translated: "The Baptist Hospital massacre, also known as the Arab National Hospital massacre, is a massacre committed by the Israeli Air Force when it raided the Arab National Hospital “Al-Baptist” in the Al-Zaytoun neighborhood, south of Gaza City, in the early night hours of October 17, 2023. The raid hit Violent Israeli air strikes in the hospital courtyard, which contained dozens of wounded, as well as hundreds of displaced civilians, most of whom were women and children. The Israeli massacre caused a real disaster. It tore apart the bodies of the victims, making them scattered and burned, while the hospital turned into a pool of blood. The National Arab Baptist Hospital is one of the oldest hospitals in the Gaza Strip, and is affiliated with the Anglican Episcopal Church in Jerusalem." Isnr13 ( talk) 22:49, 23 March 2024 (UTC)
Hello, Two outlets have reported on a video published by Israel which shows an Islamic Jihad member admitting that it was one of their rockets which hit the hospital compound. I think if this catches in a few other sources, it should be included in the article. https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/idf-releases-interrogation-footage-of-islamic-jihad-spokesman-admitting-groups-rocket-struck-al-ahli-hospital-at-start-of-war/ https://www.jpost.com/israel-hamas-war/article-796006 Tennisist123 ( talk) 17:49, 8 April 2024 (UTC)
@ Nableezy: The investigation belongs - but in the body, not the lede. The issue is that we are providing a minority position with excessive weight, in violation of MOS:LEADREL and WP:BALASP. In addition, I believe we are misrepresenting the source; the implication is that they are casting doubt on the entire theory, when they are only casting doubt on whether a specific launch of rockets was related. BilledMammal ( talk) 06:20, 21 April 2024 (UTC)
I'm opening a separate section, as the above section has become focused on whether inclusion is WP:DUE, and overlooked the other concern, that we aren't accurately representing the source. We say they "cast doubt on the errant rocket launch theory", but the source is limited to casting doubt on two specific claims, making no statement about the overall theory. In addition, Forensic Architecture has previously said they believe the most likely cause of the explosion is a rocket. BilledMammal ( talk) 12:02, 21 April 2024 (UTC)
I agree with BilledMammal the source is drastically represented. The lead, as it existed, vaguely claimed that FA "cast doubt" on the findings. But the actual FA report is essentially a nothingburger - it says that:
1) The Israeli military claims about which specific rockets caused the incident were not correct.
2) An anonymous aerospace expert (?) says the rockets ran out of fuel and thus could not have caused the damage to the hospital.
3) "What happened at al-Ahli remains inconclusive"
4) The Israeli military has attacked other hospitals and runs propoganda
In other words - they have no idea what happened, but they think Israel in generals sus. I'm not actually sure why we're even citing this given how little this source actually offers - it honestly feels like an attempt to inject false balance against an overwhelming and contrary consensus from reliable sources. Toa Nidhiki05 14:46, 26 April 2024 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Al-Ahli Arab Hospital explosion article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
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Warning: active arbitration remedies The contentious topics procedure applies to this article. Parts of this article relate to the Arab–Israeli conflict, which is a contentious topic. Furthermore, the following rules apply when editing the parts of the page related to the contentious topic:
Editors who repeatedly or seriously fail to adhere to the purpose of Wikipedia, any expected standards of behaviour, or any normal editorial process may be blocked or restricted by an administrator. Editors are advised to familiarise themselves with the contentious topics procedures before editing this page. If it is unclear which parts of the page are related to this contentious topic, the content in question should be marked within the wiki text by an invisible comment. If no comment is present, please ask an administrator for assistance. If in doubt it is better to assume that the content is covered. |
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Should it be under Norway when it is an director of an independent non state organisation making a statement? All the other countries are statements from their government. 80.217.100.31 ( talk) 01:34, 9 March 2024 (UTC)
Why is the arabic version and the english version wildly different?
The english version: "On 17 October 2023, an explosion took place in the parking lot of the courtyard of al-Ahli Arab Hospital in Gaza City during the Israel–Hamas war, resulting in a large number of fatalities and injuries among displaced Palestinians seeking shelter there." "The consensus from various independent studies of videos, images, and eyewitness reports of the explosion, its aftermath, and the blast area suggests that an errant rocket launch from within Gaza is the most probable cause. While this is not a conclusive finding, it is currently considered the likeliest explanation based on the evidence gathered in investigations"
The arabic version translated: "The Baptist Hospital massacre, also known as the Arab National Hospital massacre, is a massacre committed by the Israeli Air Force when it raided the Arab National Hospital “Al-Baptist” in the Al-Zaytoun neighborhood, south of Gaza City, in the early night hours of October 17, 2023. The raid hit Violent Israeli air strikes in the hospital courtyard, which contained dozens of wounded, as well as hundreds of displaced civilians, most of whom were women and children. The Israeli massacre caused a real disaster. It tore apart the bodies of the victims, making them scattered and burned, while the hospital turned into a pool of blood. The National Arab Baptist Hospital is one of the oldest hospitals in the Gaza Strip, and is affiliated with the Anglican Episcopal Church in Jerusalem." Isnr13 ( talk) 22:49, 23 March 2024 (UTC)
Hello, Two outlets have reported on a video published by Israel which shows an Islamic Jihad member admitting that it was one of their rockets which hit the hospital compound. I think if this catches in a few other sources, it should be included in the article. https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/idf-releases-interrogation-footage-of-islamic-jihad-spokesman-admitting-groups-rocket-struck-al-ahli-hospital-at-start-of-war/ https://www.jpost.com/israel-hamas-war/article-796006 Tennisist123 ( talk) 17:49, 8 April 2024 (UTC)
@ Nableezy: The investigation belongs - but in the body, not the lede. The issue is that we are providing a minority position with excessive weight, in violation of MOS:LEADREL and WP:BALASP. In addition, I believe we are misrepresenting the source; the implication is that they are casting doubt on the entire theory, when they are only casting doubt on whether a specific launch of rockets was related. BilledMammal ( talk) 06:20, 21 April 2024 (UTC)
I'm opening a separate section, as the above section has become focused on whether inclusion is WP:DUE, and overlooked the other concern, that we aren't accurately representing the source. We say they "cast doubt on the errant rocket launch theory", but the source is limited to casting doubt on two specific claims, making no statement about the overall theory. In addition, Forensic Architecture has previously said they believe the most likely cause of the explosion is a rocket. BilledMammal ( talk) 12:02, 21 April 2024 (UTC)
I agree with BilledMammal the source is drastically represented. The lead, as it existed, vaguely claimed that FA "cast doubt" on the findings. But the actual FA report is essentially a nothingburger - it says that:
1) The Israeli military claims about which specific rockets caused the incident were not correct.
2) An anonymous aerospace expert (?) says the rockets ran out of fuel and thus could not have caused the damage to the hospital.
3) "What happened at al-Ahli remains inconclusive"
4) The Israeli military has attacked other hospitals and runs propoganda
In other words - they have no idea what happened, but they think Israel in generals sus. I'm not actually sure why we're even citing this given how little this source actually offers - it honestly feels like an attempt to inject false balance against an overwhelming and contrary consensus from reliable sources. Toa Nidhiki05 14:46, 26 April 2024 (UTC)