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Recomendations

I simply recomend to use reliable sources and to another type of infobox instead of a battlebox, because is was not a battle it was an attack, maybe the infoboxes used in current terrorist attacks could be usefull, (iam not claiming this raid a a terrror attack). Dont forget grammar. Best wishes Miguel —Preceding unsigned comment added by 200.62.146.244 ( talk) 16:13, 6 June 2008 (UTC) reply


According to the main Bari article, the death toll is disputed. According to this article, the total is emphatically stated as 1000 serviceman and as many civilians. Shouldn't this article reflect this dispute instead of making such a bold assumptive claim? curtsurly ( talk) 20:56, 5 July 2008 (UTC)curtsurly reply

My father was at Bari, Italy during WWII. He was at the Allied Headquarters and drove Gen. Doolittle to the shore to see the damage. five4ksu@hotmail.com —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.76.218.14 ( talk) 03:09, 25 July 2009 (UTC) reply

Listing of US destroyer Bisteria is incorrect. Quoted source lists as same but is also incorrect, Bisteris was a Royal nacy Flower class esort. Listing of her experience at Bari can be found in RN records —Preceding unsigned comment added by Nyjnt ( talk • contribs) 01:58, 19 May 2010 (UTC) reply

Poison gas in Warsaw

I read the part that poison gas was not released in the European theater anywhere else, except in the death camps. But I recalled a movie on the Warsaw Ghetto Uprising that made much of the Germans' use of gas to mop up concealed Jewish bunkers. The Wikipedia page on the uprising suggests that there may have been confusion over the Germans using smoke and tear gas. It does seem unlikely that efficient German record keeping would not have mentioned the deployment of such weapons. Then again, if the record was "to kill Jews with", as part of a larger consignment set aside for the camps that it had been diverted from, it might have left no obvious paper trail. 108.28.225.134 ( talk) 07:25, 2 June 2011 (UTC) reply

During WWII, the use of phosphorous, smoke, and tear gas weapons often were mis-reported as uses of poison gas. If poison gas was really used in Europe outside of the concentration camps, then there must be a source somewhere which discusses it. If so, then that part of this article may have to be changed. Cla68 ( talk) 07:42, 2 June 2011 (UTC) reply
See [1] for example. FuFoFuEd ( talk) 00:21, 8 July 2011 (UTC) reply

This lead to drugs for treating cancer

I am missing mention of the fact that this very incident with mustard gas lead to development of drugs for treating cancer. Many of the early drugs for cancer treatment were based on mustard gas. See Sulfur mustard, section Use -- Mortense ( talk) 18:58, 20 June 2011 (UTC) reply

I just examined the sources and based on that, on the Sulfur mustard talk page I suggest updating this page (the Bari Attack page), the Sulfur mustard page and the Nitrogen mustard page to give a more complete picture of the development of anti-cancer drugs. Falconerd ( talk) 06:22, 24 June 2011 (UTC) reply

Table of ships

I've added a table of ships sunk in the raid. There were six ships reported as damaged. I've only been able to find the name of one of them. If all six can be found, they can be added with the use of † and ‡ to differentiante between sunk and damaged ships. Mjroots ( talk) 10:05, 18 July 2011 (UTC) reply

2 other sources

Roger Hill's book [1] describes the incident involving an attack by 6 Junkers 88 on a fully illuminated port whose radar had failed to work. Hill came into port aboard HMS Grenville (R97) immediately after the disaster and says 2 ammunition ships had blown up and a total of 17 ships had sunk. No problems with anyone using this though the number of ships seems wrong.

Another source. Obituary Tim Collins JRPG ( talk) 14:14, 30 October 2012 (UTC) reply


  1. ^ Roger Hill (1975). Destroyer Captain. pp. 176–177. ISBN  0718300947.

References

Feature film

Has there been a movie about this raid? 211.225.33.104 ( talk) 04:44, 21 April 2013 (UTC) reply

Online ref

Here is a fairly detailed and well-written article on the raid: http://www.historynet.com/world-war-ii-german-raid-on-bari.htm 211.225.33.104 ( talk) 04:54, 21 April 2013 (UTC) reply

Coningham's press conf.

...Air Marshal Sir Arthur Coningham, commander of the Northwest African Tactical Air Force, held a press conference where he stated that the Germans had lost the air war. He said, "I would consider it as a personal insult if the enemy should send so much as one plane over the city."

— Was this press conference held in Bari? Sca ( talk) 16:34, 2 December 2013 (UTC) reply

Navy destroyed

How many ships were destroied:

  • Seventeen Allied ships were sunk and another eight were damaged
  • Or just 17? -- Llorenzi ( talk) 13:49, 24 March 2014 (UTC) reply

Medals awarded to rescuers

I believe that there were several medals awarded to rescuers - particularly to those who boarded a burning and abandoned ammunition ship and then towed her out of the harbour. The problem is I cannot find or remember where these references were - if anyone could find them I believe it would be appropriate to note them in this article. The medals were, if memory serves me correctly, to members of the MTB Flotilla for whom HMS Vulcan (1937) was the depot and repair ship. ThoughtIdRetired ( talk) 15:28, 27 September 2014 (UTC) reply

Vienna = HMS Vienna?

It seems to me that the table of damaged ships is erroneous in listing Vienna as a merchant ship. I believe this to be HMS Vienna, the depot ship for the 24th MTB flotilla (or possibly the 20th MTB flotilla). The photograph shows Vienna in the centre of the picture with two MTB's alongside. There is another picture of Vienna available from the IWM showing her underway.

British warships in Algiers Harbour

. ThoughtIdRetired ( talk) 22:16, 3 October 2014 (UTC) reply

Corrected this error and then spotted same mistake with HMS Bicester, so fixed that too. ThoughtIdRetired ( talk) 22:48, 5 October 2014 (UTC) reply

Naval decontamination and treatment centre in Brindisi - some of the medals awarded

HMS Bicester and Zetland were ordered to Taranto in the immediate aftermath of the raid; HMS Vienna, Vulcan and several MTB's were ordered to Brindisi. The two destroyers needed assistance to navigate into port as all navigating officers had impaired vision as a result of sulfur mustard contamination. Similar problems were encountered on MTB's. Crews arriving at Brindisi were taken under the control of an army unit for decontamination and treatment. Need to check, expand and reorganise this information and incorporate in article. Conflicting information on whether both destroyers travelled under their own power or one towed the other. It seems that in most cases, bombs started fires and the fires caused explosions on both ships carrying munitions and petroleum. Some conflicting information to check. There were, at least, several instances of ships exploding. Note that MTB 297 (Lt John Woods in command) ordered to torpedo drifting and burning Samuel J Tilden outside the harbour.

Medals awarded to rescuers include:

OBE: Flying Officer Arthur James Thomas Bridgland (RAF) - In December 1943, Flying Officer Bridgland was in command of a high speed launch during a raid on Bari harbour....he took his boat alongside a badly damaged benzine tanker, which was lying less than 100 yards fro other burning tankers and exploding ammunition ships, in order to rescue the crew of the damaged tanker. Disregarding his own safety. Flying Officer Bridgland searched along the line of burning vessels and rescued some survivors; he also picked up others from a raft..... Gazette 28 July 1944

George Medal: Lieutenant-Commander John Valentine Wilkinson, DSC, Royal Navy, for undaunted courage in command of HMS Zetland when there was a heavy air raid on the Port of Bari and fires were started. Though he had been injured by flying debris from an explosion in an ammunition ship and was partly blinded by fumes, Lieutenant-Commander Wilkinson, with great fortitude and determination, three times tried to take his ship alongside a burning merchant ship carrying high octane petrol in order to tow her clear. When this proved impossible, he towed the ship in the next berth to safety. Gazette 11 July 1944

MTB 243 Peter Bickmore BEM and Sub Lt Collins OBE

More research to do and then all this to be slotted into the article. ThoughtIdRetired ( talk) 22:50, 6 October 2014 (UTC) reply

USS Bistera

The misrendition of the name of one of the ships in this story has an amazing talent for survival. If you search for USS Bistera, the only reference you will find will be to accounts of the raid on Bari. The error stems from a report written by someone who could not cope with the (to an American) weird spelling of "Bicester". There is no instance of this ship (Bistera) appearing in any list of US ships. (Look, for instance, at List of destroyers of the United States Navy.)

The references need tidying up to reflect this - there is clearly no point in having a reference that gives incorrect information. As ever, the difficult job for an editor is to work out which references contain reliable information.

ThoughtIdRetired ( talk) 20:28, 4 October 2016 (UTC) reply

External links modified

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Long-term studies?

Are there any studies relating to either long-term studies of those acutely exposed, or possible effects of long-term contamination to the area? Andy Dingley ( talk) 00:36, 11 February 2020 (UTC) reply

Retrieved from " https://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Talk:Air_raid_on_Bari&oldid=1205604019"
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Recomendations

I simply recomend to use reliable sources and to another type of infobox instead of a battlebox, because is was not a battle it was an attack, maybe the infoboxes used in current terrorist attacks could be usefull, (iam not claiming this raid a a terrror attack). Dont forget grammar. Best wishes Miguel —Preceding unsigned comment added by 200.62.146.244 ( talk) 16:13, 6 June 2008 (UTC) reply


According to the main Bari article, the death toll is disputed. According to this article, the total is emphatically stated as 1000 serviceman and as many civilians. Shouldn't this article reflect this dispute instead of making such a bold assumptive claim? curtsurly ( talk) 20:56, 5 July 2008 (UTC)curtsurly reply

My father was at Bari, Italy during WWII. He was at the Allied Headquarters and drove Gen. Doolittle to the shore to see the damage. five4ksu@hotmail.com —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.76.218.14 ( talk) 03:09, 25 July 2009 (UTC) reply

Listing of US destroyer Bisteria is incorrect. Quoted source lists as same but is also incorrect, Bisteris was a Royal nacy Flower class esort. Listing of her experience at Bari can be found in RN records —Preceding unsigned comment added by Nyjnt ( talk • contribs) 01:58, 19 May 2010 (UTC) reply

Poison gas in Warsaw

I read the part that poison gas was not released in the European theater anywhere else, except in the death camps. But I recalled a movie on the Warsaw Ghetto Uprising that made much of the Germans' use of gas to mop up concealed Jewish bunkers. The Wikipedia page on the uprising suggests that there may have been confusion over the Germans using smoke and tear gas. It does seem unlikely that efficient German record keeping would not have mentioned the deployment of such weapons. Then again, if the record was "to kill Jews with", as part of a larger consignment set aside for the camps that it had been diverted from, it might have left no obvious paper trail. 108.28.225.134 ( talk) 07:25, 2 June 2011 (UTC) reply

During WWII, the use of phosphorous, smoke, and tear gas weapons often were mis-reported as uses of poison gas. If poison gas was really used in Europe outside of the concentration camps, then there must be a source somewhere which discusses it. If so, then that part of this article may have to be changed. Cla68 ( talk) 07:42, 2 June 2011 (UTC) reply
See [1] for example. FuFoFuEd ( talk) 00:21, 8 July 2011 (UTC) reply

This lead to drugs for treating cancer

I am missing mention of the fact that this very incident with mustard gas lead to development of drugs for treating cancer. Many of the early drugs for cancer treatment were based on mustard gas. See Sulfur mustard, section Use -- Mortense ( talk) 18:58, 20 June 2011 (UTC) reply

I just examined the sources and based on that, on the Sulfur mustard talk page I suggest updating this page (the Bari Attack page), the Sulfur mustard page and the Nitrogen mustard page to give a more complete picture of the development of anti-cancer drugs. Falconerd ( talk) 06:22, 24 June 2011 (UTC) reply

Table of ships

I've added a table of ships sunk in the raid. There were six ships reported as damaged. I've only been able to find the name of one of them. If all six can be found, they can be added with the use of † and ‡ to differentiante between sunk and damaged ships. Mjroots ( talk) 10:05, 18 July 2011 (UTC) reply

2 other sources

Roger Hill's book [1] describes the incident involving an attack by 6 Junkers 88 on a fully illuminated port whose radar had failed to work. Hill came into port aboard HMS Grenville (R97) immediately after the disaster and says 2 ammunition ships had blown up and a total of 17 ships had sunk. No problems with anyone using this though the number of ships seems wrong.

Another source. Obituary Tim Collins JRPG ( talk) 14:14, 30 October 2012 (UTC) reply


  1. ^ Roger Hill (1975). Destroyer Captain. pp. 176–177. ISBN  0718300947.

References

Feature film

Has there been a movie about this raid? 211.225.33.104 ( talk) 04:44, 21 April 2013 (UTC) reply

Online ref

Here is a fairly detailed and well-written article on the raid: http://www.historynet.com/world-war-ii-german-raid-on-bari.htm 211.225.33.104 ( talk) 04:54, 21 April 2013 (UTC) reply

Coningham's press conf.

...Air Marshal Sir Arthur Coningham, commander of the Northwest African Tactical Air Force, held a press conference where he stated that the Germans had lost the air war. He said, "I would consider it as a personal insult if the enemy should send so much as one plane over the city."

— Was this press conference held in Bari? Sca ( talk) 16:34, 2 December 2013 (UTC) reply

Navy destroyed

How many ships were destroied:

  • Seventeen Allied ships were sunk and another eight were damaged
  • Or just 17? -- Llorenzi ( talk) 13:49, 24 March 2014 (UTC) reply

Medals awarded to rescuers

I believe that there were several medals awarded to rescuers - particularly to those who boarded a burning and abandoned ammunition ship and then towed her out of the harbour. The problem is I cannot find or remember where these references were - if anyone could find them I believe it would be appropriate to note them in this article. The medals were, if memory serves me correctly, to members of the MTB Flotilla for whom HMS Vulcan (1937) was the depot and repair ship. ThoughtIdRetired ( talk) 15:28, 27 September 2014 (UTC) reply

Vienna = HMS Vienna?

It seems to me that the table of damaged ships is erroneous in listing Vienna as a merchant ship. I believe this to be HMS Vienna, the depot ship for the 24th MTB flotilla (or possibly the 20th MTB flotilla). The photograph shows Vienna in the centre of the picture with two MTB's alongside. There is another picture of Vienna available from the IWM showing her underway.

British warships in Algiers Harbour

. ThoughtIdRetired ( talk) 22:16, 3 October 2014 (UTC) reply

Corrected this error and then spotted same mistake with HMS Bicester, so fixed that too. ThoughtIdRetired ( talk) 22:48, 5 October 2014 (UTC) reply

Naval decontamination and treatment centre in Brindisi - some of the medals awarded

HMS Bicester and Zetland were ordered to Taranto in the immediate aftermath of the raid; HMS Vienna, Vulcan and several MTB's were ordered to Brindisi. The two destroyers needed assistance to navigate into port as all navigating officers had impaired vision as a result of sulfur mustard contamination. Similar problems were encountered on MTB's. Crews arriving at Brindisi were taken under the control of an army unit for decontamination and treatment. Need to check, expand and reorganise this information and incorporate in article. Conflicting information on whether both destroyers travelled under their own power or one towed the other. It seems that in most cases, bombs started fires and the fires caused explosions on both ships carrying munitions and petroleum. Some conflicting information to check. There were, at least, several instances of ships exploding. Note that MTB 297 (Lt John Woods in command) ordered to torpedo drifting and burning Samuel J Tilden outside the harbour.

Medals awarded to rescuers include:

OBE: Flying Officer Arthur James Thomas Bridgland (RAF) - In December 1943, Flying Officer Bridgland was in command of a high speed launch during a raid on Bari harbour....he took his boat alongside a badly damaged benzine tanker, which was lying less than 100 yards fro other burning tankers and exploding ammunition ships, in order to rescue the crew of the damaged tanker. Disregarding his own safety. Flying Officer Bridgland searched along the line of burning vessels and rescued some survivors; he also picked up others from a raft..... Gazette 28 July 1944

George Medal: Lieutenant-Commander John Valentine Wilkinson, DSC, Royal Navy, for undaunted courage in command of HMS Zetland when there was a heavy air raid on the Port of Bari and fires were started. Though he had been injured by flying debris from an explosion in an ammunition ship and was partly blinded by fumes, Lieutenant-Commander Wilkinson, with great fortitude and determination, three times tried to take his ship alongside a burning merchant ship carrying high octane petrol in order to tow her clear. When this proved impossible, he towed the ship in the next berth to safety. Gazette 11 July 1944

MTB 243 Peter Bickmore BEM and Sub Lt Collins OBE

More research to do and then all this to be slotted into the article. ThoughtIdRetired ( talk) 22:50, 6 October 2014 (UTC) reply

USS Bistera

The misrendition of the name of one of the ships in this story has an amazing talent for survival. If you search for USS Bistera, the only reference you will find will be to accounts of the raid on Bari. The error stems from a report written by someone who could not cope with the (to an American) weird spelling of "Bicester". There is no instance of this ship (Bistera) appearing in any list of US ships. (Look, for instance, at List of destroyers of the United States Navy.)

The references need tidying up to reflect this - there is clearly no point in having a reference that gives incorrect information. As ever, the difficult job for an editor is to work out which references contain reliable information.

ThoughtIdRetired ( talk) 20:28, 4 October 2016 (UTC) reply

External links modified

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 12 external links on Air raid on Bari. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{ source check}} (last update: 18 January 2022).

  • If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
  • If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 19:00, 28 June 2017 (UTC) reply

Long-term studies?

Are there any studies relating to either long-term studies of those acutely exposed, or possible effects of long-term contamination to the area? Andy Dingley ( talk) 00:36, 11 February 2020 (UTC) reply

Retrieved from " https://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Talk:Air_raid_on_Bari&oldid=1205604019"

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