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Since her name has been officially changed back to Aerith in localizations, shouldn't we change the article name to her original Aerith Gainsbourg, and mention that it was translated Aeris Gainsborough in older translations? Compare Gulg Volcano. - Gilgamesh 00:00, 17 Feb 2005 (UTC)
The biggest problem is the inconstancy that Square has in it's localization of games – in some areas they use Aerith and in others they use Aeris; however, if you go by the original name used in Japan then we have Aerith as the official name. This is the name that is used on official Final Fantasy VII merchandize that has been released in Japan. As for the website referred to above – it might as well not be taken into consideration, in part because it has not been updated in an extremely long time - darkstar949 14 July 2005
The official name is "Aerith", through confusion in teh translatingit was changed. User:220.239.189.51
I suppose this discussion has pretty much blown through to its conclusion by now, at least until Advent Children is released in an English-speaking country, but I thought I'd mention a few things. First, wasn't Final Fantasy VII translated by Sony, not Square? I was surprised to find that Sony's involvement wasn't even mentioned on the talk page here. I'd hardly consider Sony's translation to be "official", particularly opposed to the various products released in Japan with Aerith's name written in romaji as "Aerith". On another note, doesn't anyone find the "Name Spelling Debate" section rather vitriolic, or at least POV? Eh, maybe I'll try to clean it up and tone it down later, if nobody minds. -- Rablari Dash 11:20, 2006-01-02 (UTC)
I thought you guys might appreciate this information (I was just dropping it off in the Jenova discussion section of all places):
"Aeris' name is just a Japanese transliteration of the English word 'Earth.' If you'll notice, in katakana (the Japanese alphabet used for words that are not of Japanese origin), the name is written as 'Earisu.' It's the tendency of vowels to follow consonants in Japanese ('n' being the only exception; thus, the 'i' after 'r') and the Japanese language has no 'th' characters, instead using 'su.' It became 'Aeris' as a result of writing it in romaji (the alphabet in which English characters represent Japanese sounds) to represent how it sounds when spoken in Japanese ('Air-reese').
'Aerith,' by the way, the other popular -- and actually official -- romanization of the name, should technically never occur. As it's written, it's essentially a combination of the romaji form of the Japanese transliteration and the original English word that was transliterated. It's technically impossible because there is no 'th' sound in Japanese to be represented by romaji characters. Nonetheless, it's the official romanization chosen by the creators of Final Fantasy VII."
The matter of "Earth" being the word of origin is stated in the Final Fantasy VII: Kaitai Shinsho book on Aerith's profile page. Here's a scan for proof:
http://img30.imageshack.us/my.php?image=aerith6ot.jpg
http://img222.imageshack.us/my.php?image=aerith25wz.jpg
The text there is as follows: "ネーミングの来由 Earth(大地)の読みかたを変えて命名"
--Squall of SeeD January 2006
The article itself says that Aerith shouldn't exist,. There's no TH sound in Japanese, nor does it have the letters. Even in japanese, the name is pronounced similair to the English spelling of Aeris. The original FfVII, as well as tactics, and parasite Eve all reference her name as being Aeris. Yes, Kingdom Hearts uses the name Aerith, but it's an entriely different world, and Squal has become Leon. You don't hear anybody arguing the name Leon should be used for Squall. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.26.88.88 ( talk • contribs) .
I'm just throwing this on here in a few places for information purposes- the IMDB has listed the US voices for AC, and they have her US name as Aeris.
From the full cast list on IMDB- Maaya Sakamoto .... Aerith Gainsborough (voice: Japanese version) Mena Suvari .... Aeris Gainsborough (voice: English version)
Now, argue away about proper or inproper translations, but alot of people here have voiced that we should "wait and see what the english version of AC names her," so there you go.
For my two cents, I'm fairly neutral on the subject. I use Aeris, but have no problem with people using Aerith. But I think if the argument swings back to "what US sources" use, well Kingdom hearts is hardly canonincal. So if one were to argue that point, the useage of Aeris in FF7 and AC would certainly overshadow what KH used, considering that her appearence in KH amounts to a cameo. Onikage725 01:30, 11 April 2006 (UTC)
This the most ludicrous form of pedantry I've ever seen on Wikipedia. "Aeris" is obviously the appropriate spelling for an English-language encyclopedia article about the character. "Aerith" is nothing more than a silly fanboy shibboleth. -- 24.131.209.132 00:46, 16 April 2006 (UTC)
It's not just silly fanboy stuff because the Japanese do transliterate it as Aerith most of the time. However, I agree on Aeris, since FF7 is the main source on her and that was how they did it there. AC remains to be seen, and KH is merely a cameo . Some point to KH, but that no more solidifies Aerith than FF Tactics did Aeris, newness aside. Non-canon appearances don't count for this sort of thing. I mean, the Chrono Trigger pages use Magus, even though his Japanese name was Mao. They mention both names, but use the name anyone using English wiki is likely to use. That's my 2 cents anyway. If AC uses Aerith, it seems that's Square's final resolve on US spelling, and they have the right to spell it as they wish. Onikage725 20:32, 16 April 2006 (UTC)
In the Sephiroth article, they mention the reference in Tactics, where part of his name is written '-phiros' instead of '-phiroth'. So, if a more recent spelling takes precedence for kingdom hearts, then why not for tactics? Personally, I think it's a silly argument to make. If you're going to write the english spellings, then it makes more sense to list the english name. Heck, look at some of the other arguments you'd otherwise encourage...
What about in dragonball, where the romanizations are constantly given different spellings? How do you choose which one to use? For most cases, they just use the english name in wikipedia.
To be perfectly honest, the only (valid) reason I can think of for using the name 'Aerith' instead of 'Aeris' is that 'Aerith' seems to be more popular with the fans that have kept interest in the franchise alive. I don't know if that's enough or not. But what I do know is that that isn't enough to call her 'Aerith' specifically in the section of the article where she's mentioned in Tactics. The way the article is currently written, it says that she appears in tactics as Aeris, but the article still calls her Aerith for that section. So, I'm editing that one section, because I don't see any argument listed for calling her Aerith in her Tactics appearance specifically.
Bladestorm 00:00, 6 July 2006 (UTC)
Ok... The issue in Aeris vs Aerith isn't Kingdom Hearts, it was an article in a strategy guide put out in Japan... The guide said the name was a katakana spelling of earth, which 1. is eroneous (yes, god-forbid the Japanese not get the English language correct)and 2. Wouldn't lead to Aerith being her name, but it would lead to Earth being her name... Perhaps Gaia or Terra to make it more feminine. The creators of the guide didn't understand the Latin, not English, origins of the name. Aeris (not Aerith) is the latin word for both Air and Aether. What is Aether? Aether is the mythical substance that the universe was made of. The spelling of Ether (which is a chemical that puts people to sleep) in the games would be more accurately Aether, though even the Aether in the Aether theory is often spelled Ether... Now, doesn't that seem to fit Aeris, as the face of the Lifestream? The word Aeris shows up (logically) in the latin Opera Carmina Burana, as does Materia. What is carmina burana? Well, it is the opera that the lyrics from One Winged Angel were pulled from (the original game version, I'm not sure about the new one on Advent Children) Earisu would correspond perfectly with the real latin word aeris, but the word Aerith didn't exist until the katakana earisu was incorrectly romanized as Aerith in the original FF7 game (at the same time, Cloud was called Claude, because Kuraudo could be read as cloud or claude, among other nonsensical renderings) So, her name is Aeris... Not Aerith... The strategy guide and the subsequent fan battle (with the aerith supporters) and eventually Kingdom Hearts were all wrong on this matter. WhateverTS 23:32, 16 July 2006 (UTC)
I'm sorry, but katakana renderings never use ri as a devoiced consonant. Therefore, Earisu would make no sense. At the very least, if that was earth, it would have to be Earusu. All consonants taken from standalone consonants in foreign words end in u, except for the t like and the d line, which end in o, and the standalone nasal n. No, the book that everyone keeps quoting simply made a guess, and a bad one at that. It was, essentially, incorrectly reverse engineered... As for the Aerith that shows up in the debug menu, you'd have to use Claude too if that were the case. 65.115.123.226 14:34, 17 July 2006 (UTC)
Uh, where in the world does this "Gainsbourg" buisness come from? I'm very familiar with the Aeris/Aerith controversy, but I have never, ever seen the character's surname spelled "Gainsbourg" anywhere; it's always "Gainsborough." Does someone have a cite for the "Gainsbourg" spelling? 68.226.239.73
While Aerith's name is spelled properly and correctly in the rest of the article, the title is still "Aerith Gainsbourg." I highly doubt that anyone would be looking for a "Gainsbourg" considering that the name hasn't even been used in the actual games. - djvelma
I'm sort of new to having discussions on Wikipedia, but I just wanted to ask: Who is the person who wants the listing to use "Gainsbourg" at her last name? Personally, I think it would be better to use "Gainsborough". Her last name is listed as "Gainsborough" on all of the official guidebooks, documents, manuals, websites, and merchandise, which I think is compelling enough to have the article title changed to "Gainsborough". ... Also, I noticed in the editing form of the article, somebody included a small note in the header asking that the name "Gainsbourg" remain unchanged. May I ask who included this note? It's such a small detail, but I'd really like to talk about where this name came from, and why this person insists on keeping it. Surely there must be a good argument for it. I run a website about Final Fantasy VII, so I'm very interested in knowing more. ~ Sara
This Gainsbourg/Gainsborough issue is causing image issues with the images on the page breaking, as such we need to settle on name to use so that the templates will remain correct. Currently the images are using the name of Aerith Gainsbourg for the references, where as much of the page is Aerith Gainsborough. Which means that for now we have a situation where the FFVII character template says name = Aerith Gainsbourg so that the images will not break, but the aka = Aerith Gainsborough is what the "official" name seems to be. – darkstar949 1511, 18 July 2005 (CST)
Refer to Square Enix's FF7 character profile for "Aeris Gainsborough" [2] It makes the most sense to me to have a redirect for the "Gainsbourg" variant and make the main article adhere to the almost universally used "Gainsborough." The name used on concept art or previews is irrelevant. The final product is what most of us will see and know in the end, and this needs to be fixed immediately to reflect what the "Average Joe" playing Final Fantasy VII and reading the included book(s) would recognize. I was very confused when I arrived at a page titled "Aerith Gainsbourg" whereas if the title was the familiar "Aeris Gainsborough" I would not have even bothered reading the discussions in the first place to find out who's got the wrong idea. - Daivox
Yes but the character's main canon appearance is FF7. Mention of her roles in FF Tactics, KH, etc are included because, as you said, this is about the character and FF7...but for story purposes and main biographical info on the character (which would include name), FF7 and FF7-related material are the main sources. For example, the character of Aeris/Aerith is currently deceased, as is relfected in Advent Children, but not in Kingdom hearts. Her having a cameo in KH does not mean the character is now "alive." That'd be like saying that after FFX Auron went to the Disney Underworld, or that Sora was intrumental in defeating Captain Barbossa. Onikage725 21:00, 16 April 2006 (UTC)
Quick question - but has anyone brough up where the Gainsborough came from as part of Aerith's name? During some surfing around the internet I found that Thomas Gainsborough( Thomas Gainsborough website) seems to be a fairly well known and respected artist - could this have been a tribue name? - Darkstar949 22:34, 4 January 2006 (UTC)
Why not vote on it? Aeris/Aerith and Gainsbourg/Gainborough. My vote would go the one that's currently canon; Aeris Gainsborough, which may or may not change with the translation of the compilation. I think if there isn't a clear vote, then this disagreement could go on indefinately.-- Made2Fade 10:01, 19 August 2005 (UTC)
Gilgamesh, it seems like you're the only one campaigning for keeping the current article title and you're doing it just for your own satisfaction. The last name in particular is not something I, myself have heard in any localization but I have never played Kingdom Hearts. Also, this is the ENGLISH wikipedia....the japanese version can have it spelled however they want but since this is the ENGLISH wikipedia the name should be changed to the one English speakers are more apt to recognize.
This page has not seen additional comments or 'votes' for a week now. If there is no objection, the task for converting the name used to "Aeris Gainsborough" shall be undertaken relatively soon. For the reasons shown above in prior edits, this is the most sensible course of action. Please submit any further comments ASAP. Daivox 18:47, 14 September 2005 (UTC)
The thing I don't understand is that if the two sounds are interchangeable, wouldn't it just be a matter of interpretation, rather than which is more correct? I mean, plenty of Record of Lodoss War fans were used to translating it is Rodoss or Rodosu, and neither is inherently "wrong." Yet the articles are named for the official English release, because that's what english-speaking fans are most likely to be searching for (old-school fansubbing community aside). Another example is Fist of the North Star. Hokuto no Ken translates literally as Fist of the Big Dipper, so in a localization effort was changed (otherwise the meaning would have been lost in translation if left at it's most literal state). Nobody argues that the page titles should be Fist of the Big Dipper or Hokuto no Ken, but rather that those names be given mention in the article and that the familiar English name be used for English wiki. And thus far, Aeris has appeared in officially translated English materials in FF7, FFT, KH, and KH2...and the last 3 were guest spots. Of those 3 guest spots, two are from a series that has a lot of people's hands in the cookie jar aside from the original team. Seeing as how nobodies lobbying for a change to of Cid to Shid or Cait Sith to Cait Shi, I'd say that for English info on the character, Aeris is by far more familiar, and a solid case for Aerith can't be made until the US releases of AC and Dirge. Onikage725 15:11, 17 April 2006 (UTC)
I am happy to see that a consensus has been reached on moving the page to Gainsborough; I have never ever seen reference to "Gainsbourg" before this, and it just screams typo to me. I apologize that I did start to move things before looking at the talk page here, but at least since the move was going to be made, I haven't done anything that needs to be reverted. Sorry to go off unilaterally like that. LordAmeth 02:00, 15 September 2005 (UTC)
We never really had a true vote. I think many people have lost interest in this detail at this point. As an individual who has played the English localization of Final Fantasy VII as distributed in the United States by Squaresoft (now Square Enix), I would never have found this article without proper redirection in place. Ever. I am being rather forceful in my demands that the last name be changed to "Gainsborough" because of two things: 1. All official English literature put out by Square appears to use the full name "Aeris Gainsborough" throughout; this includes (but may not be limited to) the character profile in the manual included with the CD, the online version of said profile, the official FF7 strategy guide, the actual game itself in which this character originates, etc. 2. The appearance of any last name other than "Gainsborough" appears to be so scarce that the casual Final Fantasy fan will most likely never know of it. For the sake of completeness, a note of this spelling should be made, but it should not dominate the entire article. For these reasons, as well as to better this corner of Wikipedia in general, I am attempting to force a finalization of this change. Also, the debate has raged on plenty long enough, and decisions cannot be put off forever as we argue over it. Daivox 03:55, 15 September 2005 (UTC)
I thought you guys might appreciate this information (I was just dropping it off in the Jenova discussion section of all places, as well as another article on this discussion page):
"Aeris' name is just a Japanese transliteration of the English word 'Earth.' If you'll notice, in katakana (the Japanese alphabet used for words that are not of Japanese origin), the name is written as 'Earisu.' It's the tendency of vowels to follow consonants in Japanese ('n' being the only exception; thus, the 'i' after 'r') and the Japanese language has no 'th' characters, instead using 'su.' It became 'Aeris' as a result of writing it in romaji (the alphabet in which English characters represent Japanese sounds) to represent how it sounds when spoken in Japanese ('Air-reese').
'Aerith,' by the way, the other popular -- and actually official -- romanization of the name, should technically never occur. As it's written, it's essentially a combination of the romaji form of the Japanese transliteration and the original English word that was transliterated. It's technically impossible because there is no 'th' sound in Japanese to be represented by romaji characters. Nonetheless, it's the official romanization chosen by the creators of Final Fantasy VII."
The matter of "Earth" being the word of origin is stated in the Final Fantasy VII: Kaitai Shinsho book on Aerith's profile page. Here's a scan for proof:
http://img30.imageshack.us/my.php?image=aerith6ot.jpg
http://img222.imageshack.us/my.php?image=aerith25wz.jpg
The text there is as follows: "ネーミングの来由 Earth(大地)の読みかたを変えて命名"
--Squall of SeeD January 2006
Just look to google for the awnser. Search Aerith and you get 571,000 results. Search Aeris and you get 2,070,000. It should be obvious which name is more accepted, no?
In reference to the mention that the name Aerith "could also be based off of the Hebrew name Erith, which means "flower"": I would like to point out that there is no 'th' sound in Hebrew. I offer this not as part of the naming debate, simply as a curiosity; a point of interest, if you will. LordAmeth 02:36, 22 September 2005 (UTC)
I don't pretend to know any Hebrew, however from what I've researched, "tav" has both a "T" or "S" sound, interchangeably. So, as it seems to me, both "Aeris" and "Aerith" are still correct. I would then think it's a completely individual preference. Ereinion File:Hiveneo.gif 22:51, 22 September 2005 (UTC)
In the credits for Advent Children, her name is listed as Aerith Gainsborough, there for this is the current, and official cannon word on all Japanese localizations. This means that the big event will be this November when the North American release comes out - however, as a prior prediction (and based on the way the credits are organized) - if the is not an English dub then we can be sure that the credits will not be changed and Aerith Gainsborough will stay the same, otherwise it is up in the air as to if it will be changed or not. - Darkstar949 13:51, 23 September 2005 (UTC)
Just pointing out to everyone that the IMDB changed it's listing with the annoncing of the US cast, and her US name is going to be Aeris. Onikage725 01:20, 11 April 2006 (UTC)
In the original American PSX release of FF7, her name was Aeris Gainsborough. Whomever has a scan of the original American instruction manual can upload that as a source if need be. (I, unfortunately, have lost mine.) While the article may have originally been called "Aerith Gainsbourg", at NO POINT IN HISTORY was the character in question ever called that. (Except for possibly in fan translations, but those have little, if any, authority.) Unless someone has a good reason otherwise, I'm removing the phrase "originally Aerith Gainsbourg." Viltris 06:05, 16 February 2006 (UTC)
The evidence is looking at any materials that have come out of Japan, whether they be the Final Fantasy 7 Dismantling book or the Final Fantasy VII Ultimania Omega Guide, one of which is an officially licensed book, and the other of which was actually published by Square-Enix themselves. For that matter, look at the credits of Advent Children. This is well-known info, and has been since 1997. Ryu Kaze 20:50, 18 February 2006 (UTC)
If it was "Aerith" why would "Aeris" be in the freakin' instruction manual of Final Fantasy VII (FF7)? I hate to break it to all the lisping children, teenagers, young adults, adults, and even senior citizens who can't say a plural noun with out lisping or a word ending in -s, but it is definately not "Aerith" but unmistakably AERIS! It is in the game, it is in the instruction manual, it is on www.ffonline.com/ff7/, it is almost everywhere CORRECT. THE MAN WHO KNOWS HIS ABC'S —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 67.20.39.46 ( talk • contribs) .
"While her name was translated in the US version of Final Fantasy VII as "Aeris", her name was officially changed to "Aerith" after her cameo in Kingdom Hearts"
If there is to be any implication of Square-Enix officially changing her name to Aerith, I believe it should have a citation for proof, otherwise not mentioned at all.
I'm not taking a stand on the Aeris/Aerith issue, merely pointing this out, because if it's to be used as the basis for arguing any point, it can't be mere speculation. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 69.183.52.75 ( talk • contribs) .
Well, judging from IMDB info, that's how the name appears in Advent Children, I think it's so far safe to say it's true. And assuming KH used Aerith consistently, then that's even better bet. And I'm sure as heck hoping they stick to one version anyway =) -- wwwwolf ( barks/ growls) 19:14, 7 April 2006 (UTC)
Actually the IMDB now says that for the english version of AC it's "Aeris." Just thought I'd point that out.
Eminem?? Ya know...he'd make a funny Loz Onikage725 20:43, 16 April 2006 (UTC)
Isn't it odd that the opening of this page states "it is Wikipolicy to use the official name" when, actually, it isn't? Wikipolicy is to use the most common name. Thus, this article should actually have been called 'Aeris Gainsborough' all along, simply because this is the most commonly known name. The truth can, of course, be explained in the article. (Note: I'm not arguing which form is right, simply which Wikipolicy states should be used). -- 86.144.234.245 21:52, 8 April 2006 (UTC)
(Apologies in advance - this analogy regrettably invokes Politics. I don't care about Politics and thus this isn't intended as a political statement. This is just a rhetorical example.) You notice we have an article titled "George W. Bush" which is the official name; if we'd go by "use the really common name" logic, we'd have to move the article to "Dubya" or maybe even "Bush (43rd President of the United States)", both of which are probably way more common names in the everyday discourse. Or perhaps we'd have to listen to what the trolls and vandals have been saying and rename the article to "The Chimpanzee," since that's the "common" name. Also, just last night I looked at the article CSS Virginia; I'm in a distant country where the school history textbook, when discussing the famous sea battle, called the ship "Merrimac". As the article states, that was a wrong name despite that being rather common. Believe me, using correct names for things is a solidly employed policy here. Why it isn't listed in the policies? Well, it is - in form of " use common sense". It isn't listed under "things that should be obvious", AFAIK there's no such list. =)
I do admit as much that the policy documents ( Wikipedia:Naming conventions) doesn't really have any real guideline that applies to this specific situation. It has "use what names people really use", but this policy concerns format, not spellings; ie, use the name format the person/fictional author uses, don't go for really nitpickingly technically correct name. "Aerith Gainsborough" satisfies this requirement and "Cetra Aerith Gainsborough, daughter of Ifalna and Gast" would be an example of what we shouldn't use; no gamer would use that form, nor would the characters themselves, nor is such form used anywhere else, and hey, it's a quasi-spoiler too...
So in closing, the name does satisfy whatever policies we have about the title format. Alternate spellings of the name are also handled the way the policies ask (in form of redirects). If Square has stuck with this name forevermore, that's what we're using - it's common sense. After all, they have full reason and right to decide the spelling; it's gotten so fudged lately that it's not entirely unreasonable for them to settle on a spelling and we should thus follow them. -- wwwwolf ( barks/ growls) 10:19, 9 April 2006 (UTC)
"Aerith," the actual official romanization of the name, would rarely occur in the romaji system due to the lack of a "th" sound in Japanese, though "th" is a valid, if not somewhant antiquated rendering of "su" (ス).
I've never heard of this, and quite frankly, I doubt that it's true. The Hepbrun system, which is the first "modern" one, has always had it as "su", and the Japanese developed ( Nihon-shiki, Kunrei-shiki) systemss certainly wouldn't have it. Was the polite copula was romanised as "deth" in the past? Hou about "suteki", was it "thteki"? I doubt it. The only way I can think of it being true is from very early romanisation based on Portugese (first to come to Japan and so on), what with "s" being pronounced as "th" in some words, and these wouldn't have been "standard" by any means. Any explanation? -- 88.105.241.73 01:21, 19 May 2006 (UTC)
I know that the "s" line is how "th" is approximated in Katakana English, it's just that the sentence claimed that it was an "antiquated romanisation", when it is neither antiquated or a romanisation. Heh.-- 88.105.243.4 15:21, 24 May 2006 (UTC)
Hope you don't mind, but thought I'd pursue this topic separately, as it's a slightly different issue.
First off, she ISN'T the same character. This is factually indisputable. Tactics was an alternate timeline. It's debateable whether or not that's even the same 'cloud', but that is certainly not the same Aeris.
It is another Aeris that happens to be a flower-girl. The whole point of the caption in the article there is that she resembles/mirrors the 'aerith' of FF7, but ISN'T her.
"taken aback by her resemblance to the Aerith he knew. Aeris asks Cloud if she reminds him of someone, but he denies this and walks away." She isn't the same character; in the sense of being literally the same person. It's an absolute certainty that it's a different Aeris. (obviously an identical character, but they aren't one and the same)
As such, Final Fantasy Tactics is the only reference available for that character. Nothing else that's being cited applies to her. Since there is only a single source of reference for that character's name in tactics, that is the name that will stay.
Don't change it unless you can cite an example of her being called 'Aerith' in Final Fantasy Tactics.
I'm not going to call people on calling her Aerith elsewhere, even though what they choose to call her now has zero relevance on what her name was in the game. (They could start calling her "Harold" in all future works; that wouldn't change the fact that her name was "Aeris" for FF7.) But frankly, I don't care. Valid or not, the name 'Aerith' is pretty common among people who actually still care, so that lends it a bit of credibility. However, there is only one source for the name of the character found in Final Fantasy Tactics. Calling her anything else is a fabrication or a whim. Give a citation for that character in that game, or drop it.
Bladestorm
Why not use Aeris when describing FF7/FFT, and Aerith when referring to other games, with an expanation of the discrepancy? - A Man In Bl♟ck ( conspire | past ops) 03:58, 28 August 2006 (UTC)
Yes, the Final Fantasy Tactics section needs to be seriously re-written, because the flower girl in question was not Aeris, but merely a flower girl who looks like Aeris. There is no place in the game where the flower girl is named Aeris, her name is simply Flower Girl. There is no debate between whether it's properly 'Aeris' or 'Aerith' here, as she was called neither in the game. She was a wholly different person who simply resembled Aeris. Jinx9117 00:30, 23 October 2006 (UTC)
Town Knave: "I've been looking for you, Aeris... Selling flowers for your mom? Good for you..." ("Zarghidas Trade City", Final Fantasy Tactics)
I'm confused as to why there's such a distinct and adamant position about the spelling "Aerith." I don't know where you people learned Japanese from, but "th" does NOT exist in Japanese. The spelling of her name was supposed to be "Aeris" because she was supposed to be the "HEIRESS" of the Earth. Now, if you're going to argue that "Aerith" is pronounced the same way as "Aeris," that's an entirely moot point and it is better to spell it "Aeris" because romanticization of a lot of names can be changed around. In any case, I'd like a citation if you honestly believe that "Aerith" is the proper spelling.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.57.197.163 ( talk • contribs).
"People are aware in FFVII English localisations Aerith's name is Aeris but it is policy on the English Wikipedia to use the official name, and Aeris was merely the official English name."
By this logic doesn't that mean the
Cloud's page should be called Kuraudo Sutoraifu? And
Sephiroth's Sefirosu? That's a highly large contradiction there. -
Adzma 05:05, 15 March 2007 (UTC)
Aeris flows off the tongue more easily in English. Only a few obscure loanwords have syllables that end in a th. If the name isn't pronouncable in Japanese, and is needlessly difficult and ugly sounding in English, why is everyone so adamant we use it? - Gulp Dratsum 05:09, 3 November 2007 (UTC)
Not meaning to spark up more controversy, but has anybody checked the official square-enix page to see the spellings of "AeriS" whatever her name may be? Here is a quote from before "it is policy on the English Wikipedia to use the official name" - if her 'official' name was Aerith, would Square/Enix not rectify this website: http://na.square-enix.com/games/ff7/aeris-char.html ?? Seriously people, this is the software company's website. Why would they not change it to Aerith if that were the correct name? Dashboardy 22:53, 4 February 2007 (UTC)
I know that the accepted official name of the character as a whole is "Aerith", but when using quotes taken from a specific version of the game (in this case, presumably the North American PC version), shouldn't we use the default names given in said version? ( T.J. Fuller, Jr. 12:25, 8 February 2007 (UTC))
"People are aware in FFVII English localisations Aerith's name is Aeris but it is policy on the English Wikipedia to use the official name, and Aeris was merely the official English name."
I'm wondering why the following articles don't follow the mentioned policy:
Could it be due to the Naming conventions? Just a thought. Unregistered (76.21.27.63) (talk) 14:51, 14 March 2007 (UTC)
TO CLEAR THIS UP (This is for other editors who are misusing that quote, as well): Aeris was the FIRST official English name. It has been retconned in later media (including Advent Children, and so on) as Aerith. Aerith is the official name now. Yes, many people will only know the Aeris name, but Wikipedia should be accurate, and the precise name is Aerith now. Any more questions? Nique talk 12:39, 15 March 2007 (UTC)
If you wanna get technical, the Japanese pronounce it as "Aeris" with a "u" added to the end. And if KH names are canon, why don't we all start calling Squall "Leon"? Hell, if ANYTHING from KH is canon, that'd call for a redoing of alot of FF articles.
Yeah, let's debate this once again. I think the section about FFVII should spell the character's name "Aeris" instead of "Aerith", because that's how it's spelt in the English localization of the game. Wikipedia follows an out of universe perspective, so the fact that her name is spelt differently in other material does not change the fact that it's spelt "Aeris" in FFVII. Thus, sections dealing with FFVII should precisely deal with FFVII and not an in-universe "canon". And although what is valid in an article is not necessarily valid in another article, my reasoning is nevertheless heavily supported by blatantly similar cases, namely the Final Fantasy Tactics articles, which use the spellings Bunanza, Queklain, Adramelk, etc., instead of the now "canonical" spellings of Bunansa, Cù Chulainn, Adrammelech, etc., of the more recent Ivalice games. Kariteh 14:20, 27 June 2007 (UTC)
I recently made an edit changing most Aeris' to Aerith that was reverted. I understand that there is an argument over whether Aerith or Aeris should be used as the correct name, but I feel that, in the way that the introduction is worded and the article itself is titled, Aerith is the most common spelling used, however, throughout the article, the spelling goes back and forth. I feel like, whichever form is chosen, there should be consistency throughout the article, except when explaining and quoting from translations using either specific name. It's just that, if the article is called Aerith, but she is talked about in some sections exclusively as Aeris, I feel like that could be improved. Closetoeuphoria 02:31, 1 August 2007 (UTC)
This article needs to be redirected/renamed to "Aeris Gainsborough" ASAP. Under the wiki guidelines we must use the English translation name, Aeris, first and mention that she's named Aerith in the Japanese. Parjay ► Talk 19:42, 15 September 2007 (UTC)
This page is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Since her name has been officially changed back to Aerith in localizations, shouldn't we change the article name to her original Aerith Gainsbourg, and mention that it was translated Aeris Gainsborough in older translations? Compare Gulg Volcano. - Gilgamesh 00:00, 17 Feb 2005 (UTC)
The biggest problem is the inconstancy that Square has in it's localization of games – in some areas they use Aerith and in others they use Aeris; however, if you go by the original name used in Japan then we have Aerith as the official name. This is the name that is used on official Final Fantasy VII merchandize that has been released in Japan. As for the website referred to above – it might as well not be taken into consideration, in part because it has not been updated in an extremely long time - darkstar949 14 July 2005
The official name is "Aerith", through confusion in teh translatingit was changed. User:220.239.189.51
I suppose this discussion has pretty much blown through to its conclusion by now, at least until Advent Children is released in an English-speaking country, but I thought I'd mention a few things. First, wasn't Final Fantasy VII translated by Sony, not Square? I was surprised to find that Sony's involvement wasn't even mentioned on the talk page here. I'd hardly consider Sony's translation to be "official", particularly opposed to the various products released in Japan with Aerith's name written in romaji as "Aerith". On another note, doesn't anyone find the "Name Spelling Debate" section rather vitriolic, or at least POV? Eh, maybe I'll try to clean it up and tone it down later, if nobody minds. -- Rablari Dash 11:20, 2006-01-02 (UTC)
I thought you guys might appreciate this information (I was just dropping it off in the Jenova discussion section of all places):
"Aeris' name is just a Japanese transliteration of the English word 'Earth.' If you'll notice, in katakana (the Japanese alphabet used for words that are not of Japanese origin), the name is written as 'Earisu.' It's the tendency of vowels to follow consonants in Japanese ('n' being the only exception; thus, the 'i' after 'r') and the Japanese language has no 'th' characters, instead using 'su.' It became 'Aeris' as a result of writing it in romaji (the alphabet in which English characters represent Japanese sounds) to represent how it sounds when spoken in Japanese ('Air-reese').
'Aerith,' by the way, the other popular -- and actually official -- romanization of the name, should technically never occur. As it's written, it's essentially a combination of the romaji form of the Japanese transliteration and the original English word that was transliterated. It's technically impossible because there is no 'th' sound in Japanese to be represented by romaji characters. Nonetheless, it's the official romanization chosen by the creators of Final Fantasy VII."
The matter of "Earth" being the word of origin is stated in the Final Fantasy VII: Kaitai Shinsho book on Aerith's profile page. Here's a scan for proof:
http://img30.imageshack.us/my.php?image=aerith6ot.jpg
http://img222.imageshack.us/my.php?image=aerith25wz.jpg
The text there is as follows: "ネーミングの来由 Earth(大地)の読みかたを変えて命名"
--Squall of SeeD January 2006
The article itself says that Aerith shouldn't exist,. There's no TH sound in Japanese, nor does it have the letters. Even in japanese, the name is pronounced similair to the English spelling of Aeris. The original FfVII, as well as tactics, and parasite Eve all reference her name as being Aeris. Yes, Kingdom Hearts uses the name Aerith, but it's an entriely different world, and Squal has become Leon. You don't hear anybody arguing the name Leon should be used for Squall. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.26.88.88 ( talk • contribs) .
I'm just throwing this on here in a few places for information purposes- the IMDB has listed the US voices for AC, and they have her US name as Aeris.
From the full cast list on IMDB- Maaya Sakamoto .... Aerith Gainsborough (voice: Japanese version) Mena Suvari .... Aeris Gainsborough (voice: English version)
Now, argue away about proper or inproper translations, but alot of people here have voiced that we should "wait and see what the english version of AC names her," so there you go.
For my two cents, I'm fairly neutral on the subject. I use Aeris, but have no problem with people using Aerith. But I think if the argument swings back to "what US sources" use, well Kingdom hearts is hardly canonincal. So if one were to argue that point, the useage of Aeris in FF7 and AC would certainly overshadow what KH used, considering that her appearence in KH amounts to a cameo. Onikage725 01:30, 11 April 2006 (UTC)
This the most ludicrous form of pedantry I've ever seen on Wikipedia. "Aeris" is obviously the appropriate spelling for an English-language encyclopedia article about the character. "Aerith" is nothing more than a silly fanboy shibboleth. -- 24.131.209.132 00:46, 16 April 2006 (UTC)
It's not just silly fanboy stuff because the Japanese do transliterate it as Aerith most of the time. However, I agree on Aeris, since FF7 is the main source on her and that was how they did it there. AC remains to be seen, and KH is merely a cameo . Some point to KH, but that no more solidifies Aerith than FF Tactics did Aeris, newness aside. Non-canon appearances don't count for this sort of thing. I mean, the Chrono Trigger pages use Magus, even though his Japanese name was Mao. They mention both names, but use the name anyone using English wiki is likely to use. That's my 2 cents anyway. If AC uses Aerith, it seems that's Square's final resolve on US spelling, and they have the right to spell it as they wish. Onikage725 20:32, 16 April 2006 (UTC)
In the Sephiroth article, they mention the reference in Tactics, where part of his name is written '-phiros' instead of '-phiroth'. So, if a more recent spelling takes precedence for kingdom hearts, then why not for tactics? Personally, I think it's a silly argument to make. If you're going to write the english spellings, then it makes more sense to list the english name. Heck, look at some of the other arguments you'd otherwise encourage...
What about in dragonball, where the romanizations are constantly given different spellings? How do you choose which one to use? For most cases, they just use the english name in wikipedia.
To be perfectly honest, the only (valid) reason I can think of for using the name 'Aerith' instead of 'Aeris' is that 'Aerith' seems to be more popular with the fans that have kept interest in the franchise alive. I don't know if that's enough or not. But what I do know is that that isn't enough to call her 'Aerith' specifically in the section of the article where she's mentioned in Tactics. The way the article is currently written, it says that she appears in tactics as Aeris, but the article still calls her Aerith for that section. So, I'm editing that one section, because I don't see any argument listed for calling her Aerith in her Tactics appearance specifically.
Bladestorm 00:00, 6 July 2006 (UTC)
Ok... The issue in Aeris vs Aerith isn't Kingdom Hearts, it was an article in a strategy guide put out in Japan... The guide said the name was a katakana spelling of earth, which 1. is eroneous (yes, god-forbid the Japanese not get the English language correct)and 2. Wouldn't lead to Aerith being her name, but it would lead to Earth being her name... Perhaps Gaia or Terra to make it more feminine. The creators of the guide didn't understand the Latin, not English, origins of the name. Aeris (not Aerith) is the latin word for both Air and Aether. What is Aether? Aether is the mythical substance that the universe was made of. The spelling of Ether (which is a chemical that puts people to sleep) in the games would be more accurately Aether, though even the Aether in the Aether theory is often spelled Ether... Now, doesn't that seem to fit Aeris, as the face of the Lifestream? The word Aeris shows up (logically) in the latin Opera Carmina Burana, as does Materia. What is carmina burana? Well, it is the opera that the lyrics from One Winged Angel were pulled from (the original game version, I'm not sure about the new one on Advent Children) Earisu would correspond perfectly with the real latin word aeris, but the word Aerith didn't exist until the katakana earisu was incorrectly romanized as Aerith in the original FF7 game (at the same time, Cloud was called Claude, because Kuraudo could be read as cloud or claude, among other nonsensical renderings) So, her name is Aeris... Not Aerith... The strategy guide and the subsequent fan battle (with the aerith supporters) and eventually Kingdom Hearts were all wrong on this matter. WhateverTS 23:32, 16 July 2006 (UTC)
I'm sorry, but katakana renderings never use ri as a devoiced consonant. Therefore, Earisu would make no sense. At the very least, if that was earth, it would have to be Earusu. All consonants taken from standalone consonants in foreign words end in u, except for the t like and the d line, which end in o, and the standalone nasal n. No, the book that everyone keeps quoting simply made a guess, and a bad one at that. It was, essentially, incorrectly reverse engineered... As for the Aerith that shows up in the debug menu, you'd have to use Claude too if that were the case. 65.115.123.226 14:34, 17 July 2006 (UTC)
Uh, where in the world does this "Gainsbourg" buisness come from? I'm very familiar with the Aeris/Aerith controversy, but I have never, ever seen the character's surname spelled "Gainsbourg" anywhere; it's always "Gainsborough." Does someone have a cite for the "Gainsbourg" spelling? 68.226.239.73
While Aerith's name is spelled properly and correctly in the rest of the article, the title is still "Aerith Gainsbourg." I highly doubt that anyone would be looking for a "Gainsbourg" considering that the name hasn't even been used in the actual games. - djvelma
I'm sort of new to having discussions on Wikipedia, but I just wanted to ask: Who is the person who wants the listing to use "Gainsbourg" at her last name? Personally, I think it would be better to use "Gainsborough". Her last name is listed as "Gainsborough" on all of the official guidebooks, documents, manuals, websites, and merchandise, which I think is compelling enough to have the article title changed to "Gainsborough". ... Also, I noticed in the editing form of the article, somebody included a small note in the header asking that the name "Gainsbourg" remain unchanged. May I ask who included this note? It's such a small detail, but I'd really like to talk about where this name came from, and why this person insists on keeping it. Surely there must be a good argument for it. I run a website about Final Fantasy VII, so I'm very interested in knowing more. ~ Sara
This Gainsbourg/Gainsborough issue is causing image issues with the images on the page breaking, as such we need to settle on name to use so that the templates will remain correct. Currently the images are using the name of Aerith Gainsbourg for the references, where as much of the page is Aerith Gainsborough. Which means that for now we have a situation where the FFVII character template says name = Aerith Gainsbourg so that the images will not break, but the aka = Aerith Gainsborough is what the "official" name seems to be. – darkstar949 1511, 18 July 2005 (CST)
Refer to Square Enix's FF7 character profile for "Aeris Gainsborough" [2] It makes the most sense to me to have a redirect for the "Gainsbourg" variant and make the main article adhere to the almost universally used "Gainsborough." The name used on concept art or previews is irrelevant. The final product is what most of us will see and know in the end, and this needs to be fixed immediately to reflect what the "Average Joe" playing Final Fantasy VII and reading the included book(s) would recognize. I was very confused when I arrived at a page titled "Aerith Gainsbourg" whereas if the title was the familiar "Aeris Gainsborough" I would not have even bothered reading the discussions in the first place to find out who's got the wrong idea. - Daivox
Yes but the character's main canon appearance is FF7. Mention of her roles in FF Tactics, KH, etc are included because, as you said, this is about the character and FF7...but for story purposes and main biographical info on the character (which would include name), FF7 and FF7-related material are the main sources. For example, the character of Aeris/Aerith is currently deceased, as is relfected in Advent Children, but not in Kingdom hearts. Her having a cameo in KH does not mean the character is now "alive." That'd be like saying that after FFX Auron went to the Disney Underworld, or that Sora was intrumental in defeating Captain Barbossa. Onikage725 21:00, 16 April 2006 (UTC)
Quick question - but has anyone brough up where the Gainsborough came from as part of Aerith's name? During some surfing around the internet I found that Thomas Gainsborough( Thomas Gainsborough website) seems to be a fairly well known and respected artist - could this have been a tribue name? - Darkstar949 22:34, 4 January 2006 (UTC)
Why not vote on it? Aeris/Aerith and Gainsbourg/Gainborough. My vote would go the one that's currently canon; Aeris Gainsborough, which may or may not change with the translation of the compilation. I think if there isn't a clear vote, then this disagreement could go on indefinately.-- Made2Fade 10:01, 19 August 2005 (UTC)
Gilgamesh, it seems like you're the only one campaigning for keeping the current article title and you're doing it just for your own satisfaction. The last name in particular is not something I, myself have heard in any localization but I have never played Kingdom Hearts. Also, this is the ENGLISH wikipedia....the japanese version can have it spelled however they want but since this is the ENGLISH wikipedia the name should be changed to the one English speakers are more apt to recognize.
This page has not seen additional comments or 'votes' for a week now. If there is no objection, the task for converting the name used to "Aeris Gainsborough" shall be undertaken relatively soon. For the reasons shown above in prior edits, this is the most sensible course of action. Please submit any further comments ASAP. Daivox 18:47, 14 September 2005 (UTC)
The thing I don't understand is that if the two sounds are interchangeable, wouldn't it just be a matter of interpretation, rather than which is more correct? I mean, plenty of Record of Lodoss War fans were used to translating it is Rodoss or Rodosu, and neither is inherently "wrong." Yet the articles are named for the official English release, because that's what english-speaking fans are most likely to be searching for (old-school fansubbing community aside). Another example is Fist of the North Star. Hokuto no Ken translates literally as Fist of the Big Dipper, so in a localization effort was changed (otherwise the meaning would have been lost in translation if left at it's most literal state). Nobody argues that the page titles should be Fist of the Big Dipper or Hokuto no Ken, but rather that those names be given mention in the article and that the familiar English name be used for English wiki. And thus far, Aeris has appeared in officially translated English materials in FF7, FFT, KH, and KH2...and the last 3 were guest spots. Of those 3 guest spots, two are from a series that has a lot of people's hands in the cookie jar aside from the original team. Seeing as how nobodies lobbying for a change to of Cid to Shid or Cait Sith to Cait Shi, I'd say that for English info on the character, Aeris is by far more familiar, and a solid case for Aerith can't be made until the US releases of AC and Dirge. Onikage725 15:11, 17 April 2006 (UTC)
I am happy to see that a consensus has been reached on moving the page to Gainsborough; I have never ever seen reference to "Gainsbourg" before this, and it just screams typo to me. I apologize that I did start to move things before looking at the talk page here, but at least since the move was going to be made, I haven't done anything that needs to be reverted. Sorry to go off unilaterally like that. LordAmeth 02:00, 15 September 2005 (UTC)
We never really had a true vote. I think many people have lost interest in this detail at this point. As an individual who has played the English localization of Final Fantasy VII as distributed in the United States by Squaresoft (now Square Enix), I would never have found this article without proper redirection in place. Ever. I am being rather forceful in my demands that the last name be changed to "Gainsborough" because of two things: 1. All official English literature put out by Square appears to use the full name "Aeris Gainsborough" throughout; this includes (but may not be limited to) the character profile in the manual included with the CD, the online version of said profile, the official FF7 strategy guide, the actual game itself in which this character originates, etc. 2. The appearance of any last name other than "Gainsborough" appears to be so scarce that the casual Final Fantasy fan will most likely never know of it. For the sake of completeness, a note of this spelling should be made, but it should not dominate the entire article. For these reasons, as well as to better this corner of Wikipedia in general, I am attempting to force a finalization of this change. Also, the debate has raged on plenty long enough, and decisions cannot be put off forever as we argue over it. Daivox 03:55, 15 September 2005 (UTC)
I thought you guys might appreciate this information (I was just dropping it off in the Jenova discussion section of all places, as well as another article on this discussion page):
"Aeris' name is just a Japanese transliteration of the English word 'Earth.' If you'll notice, in katakana (the Japanese alphabet used for words that are not of Japanese origin), the name is written as 'Earisu.' It's the tendency of vowels to follow consonants in Japanese ('n' being the only exception; thus, the 'i' after 'r') and the Japanese language has no 'th' characters, instead using 'su.' It became 'Aeris' as a result of writing it in romaji (the alphabet in which English characters represent Japanese sounds) to represent how it sounds when spoken in Japanese ('Air-reese').
'Aerith,' by the way, the other popular -- and actually official -- romanization of the name, should technically never occur. As it's written, it's essentially a combination of the romaji form of the Japanese transliteration and the original English word that was transliterated. It's technically impossible because there is no 'th' sound in Japanese to be represented by romaji characters. Nonetheless, it's the official romanization chosen by the creators of Final Fantasy VII."
The matter of "Earth" being the word of origin is stated in the Final Fantasy VII: Kaitai Shinsho book on Aerith's profile page. Here's a scan for proof:
http://img30.imageshack.us/my.php?image=aerith6ot.jpg
http://img222.imageshack.us/my.php?image=aerith25wz.jpg
The text there is as follows: "ネーミングの来由 Earth(大地)の読みかたを変えて命名"
--Squall of SeeD January 2006
Just look to google for the awnser. Search Aerith and you get 571,000 results. Search Aeris and you get 2,070,000. It should be obvious which name is more accepted, no?
In reference to the mention that the name Aerith "could also be based off of the Hebrew name Erith, which means "flower"": I would like to point out that there is no 'th' sound in Hebrew. I offer this not as part of the naming debate, simply as a curiosity; a point of interest, if you will. LordAmeth 02:36, 22 September 2005 (UTC)
I don't pretend to know any Hebrew, however from what I've researched, "tav" has both a "T" or "S" sound, interchangeably. So, as it seems to me, both "Aeris" and "Aerith" are still correct. I would then think it's a completely individual preference. Ereinion File:Hiveneo.gif 22:51, 22 September 2005 (UTC)
In the credits for Advent Children, her name is listed as Aerith Gainsborough, there for this is the current, and official cannon word on all Japanese localizations. This means that the big event will be this November when the North American release comes out - however, as a prior prediction (and based on the way the credits are organized) - if the is not an English dub then we can be sure that the credits will not be changed and Aerith Gainsborough will stay the same, otherwise it is up in the air as to if it will be changed or not. - Darkstar949 13:51, 23 September 2005 (UTC)
Just pointing out to everyone that the IMDB changed it's listing with the annoncing of the US cast, and her US name is going to be Aeris. Onikage725 01:20, 11 April 2006 (UTC)
In the original American PSX release of FF7, her name was Aeris Gainsborough. Whomever has a scan of the original American instruction manual can upload that as a source if need be. (I, unfortunately, have lost mine.) While the article may have originally been called "Aerith Gainsbourg", at NO POINT IN HISTORY was the character in question ever called that. (Except for possibly in fan translations, but those have little, if any, authority.) Unless someone has a good reason otherwise, I'm removing the phrase "originally Aerith Gainsbourg." Viltris 06:05, 16 February 2006 (UTC)
The evidence is looking at any materials that have come out of Japan, whether they be the Final Fantasy 7 Dismantling book or the Final Fantasy VII Ultimania Omega Guide, one of which is an officially licensed book, and the other of which was actually published by Square-Enix themselves. For that matter, look at the credits of Advent Children. This is well-known info, and has been since 1997. Ryu Kaze 20:50, 18 February 2006 (UTC)
If it was "Aerith" why would "Aeris" be in the freakin' instruction manual of Final Fantasy VII (FF7)? I hate to break it to all the lisping children, teenagers, young adults, adults, and even senior citizens who can't say a plural noun with out lisping or a word ending in -s, but it is definately not "Aerith" but unmistakably AERIS! It is in the game, it is in the instruction manual, it is on www.ffonline.com/ff7/, it is almost everywhere CORRECT. THE MAN WHO KNOWS HIS ABC'S —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 67.20.39.46 ( talk • contribs) .
"While her name was translated in the US version of Final Fantasy VII as "Aeris", her name was officially changed to "Aerith" after her cameo in Kingdom Hearts"
If there is to be any implication of Square-Enix officially changing her name to Aerith, I believe it should have a citation for proof, otherwise not mentioned at all.
I'm not taking a stand on the Aeris/Aerith issue, merely pointing this out, because if it's to be used as the basis for arguing any point, it can't be mere speculation. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 69.183.52.75 ( talk • contribs) .
Well, judging from IMDB info, that's how the name appears in Advent Children, I think it's so far safe to say it's true. And assuming KH used Aerith consistently, then that's even better bet. And I'm sure as heck hoping they stick to one version anyway =) -- wwwwolf ( barks/ growls) 19:14, 7 April 2006 (UTC)
Actually the IMDB now says that for the english version of AC it's "Aeris." Just thought I'd point that out.
Eminem?? Ya know...he'd make a funny Loz Onikage725 20:43, 16 April 2006 (UTC)
Isn't it odd that the opening of this page states "it is Wikipolicy to use the official name" when, actually, it isn't? Wikipolicy is to use the most common name. Thus, this article should actually have been called 'Aeris Gainsborough' all along, simply because this is the most commonly known name. The truth can, of course, be explained in the article. (Note: I'm not arguing which form is right, simply which Wikipolicy states should be used). -- 86.144.234.245 21:52, 8 April 2006 (UTC)
(Apologies in advance - this analogy regrettably invokes Politics. I don't care about Politics and thus this isn't intended as a political statement. This is just a rhetorical example.) You notice we have an article titled "George W. Bush" which is the official name; if we'd go by "use the really common name" logic, we'd have to move the article to "Dubya" or maybe even "Bush (43rd President of the United States)", both of which are probably way more common names in the everyday discourse. Or perhaps we'd have to listen to what the trolls and vandals have been saying and rename the article to "The Chimpanzee," since that's the "common" name. Also, just last night I looked at the article CSS Virginia; I'm in a distant country where the school history textbook, when discussing the famous sea battle, called the ship "Merrimac". As the article states, that was a wrong name despite that being rather common. Believe me, using correct names for things is a solidly employed policy here. Why it isn't listed in the policies? Well, it is - in form of " use common sense". It isn't listed under "things that should be obvious", AFAIK there's no such list. =)
I do admit as much that the policy documents ( Wikipedia:Naming conventions) doesn't really have any real guideline that applies to this specific situation. It has "use what names people really use", but this policy concerns format, not spellings; ie, use the name format the person/fictional author uses, don't go for really nitpickingly technically correct name. "Aerith Gainsborough" satisfies this requirement and "Cetra Aerith Gainsborough, daughter of Ifalna and Gast" would be an example of what we shouldn't use; no gamer would use that form, nor would the characters themselves, nor is such form used anywhere else, and hey, it's a quasi-spoiler too...
So in closing, the name does satisfy whatever policies we have about the title format. Alternate spellings of the name are also handled the way the policies ask (in form of redirects). If Square has stuck with this name forevermore, that's what we're using - it's common sense. After all, they have full reason and right to decide the spelling; it's gotten so fudged lately that it's not entirely unreasonable for them to settle on a spelling and we should thus follow them. -- wwwwolf ( barks/ growls) 10:19, 9 April 2006 (UTC)
"Aerith," the actual official romanization of the name, would rarely occur in the romaji system due to the lack of a "th" sound in Japanese, though "th" is a valid, if not somewhant antiquated rendering of "su" (ス).
I've never heard of this, and quite frankly, I doubt that it's true. The Hepbrun system, which is the first "modern" one, has always had it as "su", and the Japanese developed ( Nihon-shiki, Kunrei-shiki) systemss certainly wouldn't have it. Was the polite copula was romanised as "deth" in the past? Hou about "suteki", was it "thteki"? I doubt it. The only way I can think of it being true is from very early romanisation based on Portugese (first to come to Japan and so on), what with "s" being pronounced as "th" in some words, and these wouldn't have been "standard" by any means. Any explanation? -- 88.105.241.73 01:21, 19 May 2006 (UTC)
I know that the "s" line is how "th" is approximated in Katakana English, it's just that the sentence claimed that it was an "antiquated romanisation", when it is neither antiquated or a romanisation. Heh.-- 88.105.243.4 15:21, 24 May 2006 (UTC)
Hope you don't mind, but thought I'd pursue this topic separately, as it's a slightly different issue.
First off, she ISN'T the same character. This is factually indisputable. Tactics was an alternate timeline. It's debateable whether or not that's even the same 'cloud', but that is certainly not the same Aeris.
It is another Aeris that happens to be a flower-girl. The whole point of the caption in the article there is that she resembles/mirrors the 'aerith' of FF7, but ISN'T her.
"taken aback by her resemblance to the Aerith he knew. Aeris asks Cloud if she reminds him of someone, but he denies this and walks away." She isn't the same character; in the sense of being literally the same person. It's an absolute certainty that it's a different Aeris. (obviously an identical character, but they aren't one and the same)
As such, Final Fantasy Tactics is the only reference available for that character. Nothing else that's being cited applies to her. Since there is only a single source of reference for that character's name in tactics, that is the name that will stay.
Don't change it unless you can cite an example of her being called 'Aerith' in Final Fantasy Tactics.
I'm not going to call people on calling her Aerith elsewhere, even though what they choose to call her now has zero relevance on what her name was in the game. (They could start calling her "Harold" in all future works; that wouldn't change the fact that her name was "Aeris" for FF7.) But frankly, I don't care. Valid or not, the name 'Aerith' is pretty common among people who actually still care, so that lends it a bit of credibility. However, there is only one source for the name of the character found in Final Fantasy Tactics. Calling her anything else is a fabrication or a whim. Give a citation for that character in that game, or drop it.
Bladestorm
Why not use Aeris when describing FF7/FFT, and Aerith when referring to other games, with an expanation of the discrepancy? - A Man In Bl♟ck ( conspire | past ops) 03:58, 28 August 2006 (UTC)
Yes, the Final Fantasy Tactics section needs to be seriously re-written, because the flower girl in question was not Aeris, but merely a flower girl who looks like Aeris. There is no place in the game where the flower girl is named Aeris, her name is simply Flower Girl. There is no debate between whether it's properly 'Aeris' or 'Aerith' here, as she was called neither in the game. She was a wholly different person who simply resembled Aeris. Jinx9117 00:30, 23 October 2006 (UTC)
Town Knave: "I've been looking for you, Aeris... Selling flowers for your mom? Good for you..." ("Zarghidas Trade City", Final Fantasy Tactics)
I'm confused as to why there's such a distinct and adamant position about the spelling "Aerith." I don't know where you people learned Japanese from, but "th" does NOT exist in Japanese. The spelling of her name was supposed to be "Aeris" because she was supposed to be the "HEIRESS" of the Earth. Now, if you're going to argue that "Aerith" is pronounced the same way as "Aeris," that's an entirely moot point and it is better to spell it "Aeris" because romanticization of a lot of names can be changed around. In any case, I'd like a citation if you honestly believe that "Aerith" is the proper spelling.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.57.197.163 ( talk • contribs).
"People are aware in FFVII English localisations Aerith's name is Aeris but it is policy on the English Wikipedia to use the official name, and Aeris was merely the official English name."
By this logic doesn't that mean the
Cloud's page should be called Kuraudo Sutoraifu? And
Sephiroth's Sefirosu? That's a highly large contradiction there. -
Adzma 05:05, 15 March 2007 (UTC)
Aeris flows off the tongue more easily in English. Only a few obscure loanwords have syllables that end in a th. If the name isn't pronouncable in Japanese, and is needlessly difficult and ugly sounding in English, why is everyone so adamant we use it? - Gulp Dratsum 05:09, 3 November 2007 (UTC)
Not meaning to spark up more controversy, but has anybody checked the official square-enix page to see the spellings of "AeriS" whatever her name may be? Here is a quote from before "it is policy on the English Wikipedia to use the official name" - if her 'official' name was Aerith, would Square/Enix not rectify this website: http://na.square-enix.com/games/ff7/aeris-char.html ?? Seriously people, this is the software company's website. Why would they not change it to Aerith if that were the correct name? Dashboardy 22:53, 4 February 2007 (UTC)
I know that the accepted official name of the character as a whole is "Aerith", but when using quotes taken from a specific version of the game (in this case, presumably the North American PC version), shouldn't we use the default names given in said version? ( T.J. Fuller, Jr. 12:25, 8 February 2007 (UTC))
"People are aware in FFVII English localisations Aerith's name is Aeris but it is policy on the English Wikipedia to use the official name, and Aeris was merely the official English name."
I'm wondering why the following articles don't follow the mentioned policy:
Could it be due to the Naming conventions? Just a thought. Unregistered (76.21.27.63) (talk) 14:51, 14 March 2007 (UTC)
TO CLEAR THIS UP (This is for other editors who are misusing that quote, as well): Aeris was the FIRST official English name. It has been retconned in later media (including Advent Children, and so on) as Aerith. Aerith is the official name now. Yes, many people will only know the Aeris name, but Wikipedia should be accurate, and the precise name is Aerith now. Any more questions? Nique talk 12:39, 15 March 2007 (UTC)
If you wanna get technical, the Japanese pronounce it as "Aeris" with a "u" added to the end. And if KH names are canon, why don't we all start calling Squall "Leon"? Hell, if ANYTHING from KH is canon, that'd call for a redoing of alot of FF articles.
Yeah, let's debate this once again. I think the section about FFVII should spell the character's name "Aeris" instead of "Aerith", because that's how it's spelt in the English localization of the game. Wikipedia follows an out of universe perspective, so the fact that her name is spelt differently in other material does not change the fact that it's spelt "Aeris" in FFVII. Thus, sections dealing with FFVII should precisely deal with FFVII and not an in-universe "canon". And although what is valid in an article is not necessarily valid in another article, my reasoning is nevertheless heavily supported by blatantly similar cases, namely the Final Fantasy Tactics articles, which use the spellings Bunanza, Queklain, Adramelk, etc., instead of the now "canonical" spellings of Bunansa, Cù Chulainn, Adrammelech, etc., of the more recent Ivalice games. Kariteh 14:20, 27 June 2007 (UTC)
I recently made an edit changing most Aeris' to Aerith that was reverted. I understand that there is an argument over whether Aerith or Aeris should be used as the correct name, but I feel that, in the way that the introduction is worded and the article itself is titled, Aerith is the most common spelling used, however, throughout the article, the spelling goes back and forth. I feel like, whichever form is chosen, there should be consistency throughout the article, except when explaining and quoting from translations using either specific name. It's just that, if the article is called Aerith, but she is talked about in some sections exclusively as Aeris, I feel like that could be improved. Closetoeuphoria 02:31, 1 August 2007 (UTC)
This article needs to be redirected/renamed to "Aeris Gainsborough" ASAP. Under the wiki guidelines we must use the English translation name, Aeris, first and mention that she's named Aerith in the Japanese. Parjay ► Talk 19:42, 15 September 2007 (UTC)