This redirect does not require a rating on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||
|
The contents of the 8P8C page were merged into Modular connector on 2010-10-16 and it now redirects there. For the contribution history and old versions of the merged article please see its history. |
Although not the best method for people learning this information, the technically correct statement is xDSL (ADSL/SDSL).
It would be best to spell it out in something like this:
RJ45 (8P8C) connectors are commonly used with Ethernet and Fast-Ethernet Unshielded and/or Shielded Twisted Pair (UTP/STP) cabling. With the expanded availability of broadband Internet service, the cable connecting either an Asynchronous or a Synchronous Digital Subscriber Line (ADSL/SDSL) modem to a computer is the most easily locatable example of this system.
-- Enquiren 69.144.174.114 05:38, 18 December 2006 (UTC)
I thought ADSL/SDSL stood for Asymmetric.../Symmetric 213.143.18.224 16:44, 20 December 2006 (UTC)
You are correct. It is Asymmetric.../Symmetric based on whether the available bandwidth is unequally or equally distributed to transmit/receive operation. Asynchronous and Synchronous are typically used in a different context and not related to xDSL technologies.
The "x" in xDSL is a variable that can refer to the "A" of ADSL (Asymmetric) or the "S" (Symmetric) of SDSL or the "H" (High-rate) of HDSL, etc.; xDSL is the blanket term for all types of Digital Subscriber Lines collectively, it is not in itself a specific type of DSL (don't ask me why they couldn't just have DSL with no additional letter stand for the collective technologies). JohannVII ( talk) 23:48, 17 April 2009 (UTC)
The registered jack name for telephone wiring is RJ11. The registered jack name for ethernet wiring is RJ45. This is neither ambiguous nor confusing. The confusion comes when ethernet cabling (with RJ45 connectors) is used for multiline phone systems. The point is moot, however, with VOIP replacing POTS in homes and businesses across the country. Xalorous 13:14, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
If
RJ45 and
8P8C are not the same thing, why does RJ45 redirect to 8P8C? Doesn't make much sense. --
Devnevyn 08:09, 28 March 2007 (UTC)
This whole article is very confusing. The first sentence in the article says, basically, that 8P8C is the same as RJ45. (The article is titled "8P8C," but the first line says "These connectors are properly called RJ45.") But then only a few sentences later, it says that "The 8P8C modular plugs and jacks look very similar to the…RJ45," implying that they are NOT the same. (Emph. mine) Which is it?! Are they the same thing or not? If they're not the exact same thing, then it seems like there ought to be two separate pages, one on 8P8C, and one on RJ45. The 8P8C one might say that people commonly call it an "RJ45", but that RJ45 actually means something else, with a redirect to the page discussing it more precisely. But the page as it stands right now is confusing and self-contradictory. -- Kadin2048 06:09, 27 July 2007 (UTC)
Yeah, seriously, who the #$&@ cares what RJ45 used to mean to telephone installers in the 70s. Clearly everyone producing ethernet hardware these days labels the connectors as RJ45. The article can talk about the 70s phone interface stuff somewhere down at the bottom, but it shouldn't be so prominent. This whole freaking RJ45/8P8C article mess is just about some bull@#%5 no one cares about. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.233.80.254 ( talk) 05:45, 27 May 2008 (UTC)
The confusion seems to come from the fact that the Registered Jack specifications are wiring standards FOR JACKS (not modular connector terminations for cables). The article is confusing because the distinction between physical form-factor, electrical wiring, and pinouts (for both plugs and jacks) is never made clear. For example, RJ-11, RJ-14, and RJ-25 all typically use jacks with the same form-factor, 6-pin, but have 2,4, and 6 connections respectively. One may use a 6P6C plug and wire it for use with an RJ-11 jack, only connecting two of the contacts to wires, but the connector still has 6 pin slots and 6 contact points, so a 6P6C modular plug can be accurately described an RJ-11 CONNECTOR (or RJ-14, or RJ-25), but an RJ-11 JACK is a rigidly defined by a certain wiring scheme. By the same token, 8P8C connectors and jacks refer to a physical form factor (USOC-8) with 8 contact points; since these CAN BE wired in accordance with the RJ-45 spec, it's a bit reductionist but not actually wrong to call them RJ-45 jacks and plugs. It's certainly MORE correct to simply call them 8P8C, and if one is going to use RJ-45 in the description, something like "RJ-45-Style" would be best. I agree that the RJ-45 redirect to 8P8C is flat out wrong; a redirect to "Registered jack" would be better, and a disambiguation page listing at minimum 8P8C, a page on the actual RJ-45 wiring standard, and T568A/B wiring would be best. But RJ-11 as an idiom for 6P6C and RJ-45 for 8P8C are probably here to stay, like Xerox for photocopy and Kleenex for facial tissue, and railing against it isn't going to help. JohannVII ( talk) 23:31, 17 April 2009 (UTC)
The section on naming ambiguity has been marked as seeming not to be written in formal tone. I wrote that section, and would like to correct that to Wikipedia standards, but I would like more guidance. Formal tone usually reduces the comprehensibility of writing, so as a technical writer, I'm conditioned to avoid it. So while I can see several things in the section that could be more formal, I don't want to change them based just on a guess that it's what others find insufficiently formal.
Can someone give specific examples of insufficient formality?
This is a very important section; I believe many users of this article will be specifically trying to resolve some confusion they have about naming. So it ought to be as clear as possible, which tends to imply written in the language of the reader.
Bryan Henderson 23:29, 13 August 2006 (UTC)
Wikipedia:Guide_to_writing_better_articles does not ask for the use of any "formal tone". In fact, your tone is neither offensive nor hard to follow. To inform people about the confusion that lead to the use of "RJ45" in computer network wiring, I can't think of a more appropriate way of writing than yours. And first of all: It's just fun to read. That's why I'll delete the "inappropriate tone" flag (while the template of this flag itself is marked as "not verified"). If someone finds an even better way of writing, she/he still can help improve. -- Jhartmann 09:38, 28 August 2006 (UTC)
I can think of a more appropriate thing to say about RJ45 vs 8P8C.
The plugs for twisted pair ethernet ARE the plugs for Rj45 , which are clearly RJ45 plugs. That is all that matters.
If this article was about RJ45 wiring, Then and only then would it be wrong to confuse RJ45 and ethernet.
In my opinion, it is inappropriate to be so pendantic and so anal and so misleading , its more than just tone at fault, its
stupid "someone told me that it was wrong" hearsay put on as the truth
RJ45 plugs are not restricted to use in RJ45 wiring, so ethernet happily uses RJ45 plugs, its really really simple 202.92.40.202 ( talk) 05:54, 8 May 2009 (UTC)
Much of this article does not seem to be written in correct Wikipedia format. 4.154.50.145 00:34, 27 August 2006 (UTC)
not all connectors used for networking actually have all 8 pins present, and a descriptive title is probablly better than introducing yet another poorly understood acronym. Plugwash 20:24, 20 February 2007 (UTC)
This sentence seems to have been written by someone familiar with much older applications of this technology.
It neither uses all eight conductors (but only two of them for wires plus two for shorting a programming resistor) nor does it fit into 8P8C because the true RJ45 is "keyed".
This was true about 10 years ago, but since then Full-Duplex operation has become almost universally adopted - and Full-Duplex does actually use the remaining two pairs.
Also, how is an '8P8C' connector not keyed? I've just made sure by trying to put mine in the wrong way and it can't go.
87.194.8.35 19:58, 31 July 2007 (UTC)
i believe the lede is incorrect. it states "8P8C neither uses all eight conductors (but only two of them for wires plus two for shorting a programming resistor) nor does it fit into RJ45 because the true 8P8C is "keyed". Despite this, 8P8C modular connectors are nearly always called "RJ45" — which leads to a lot of confusion when telecommunication professionals meet with network installers." but that's almost a non-sequitur. 8p8c is a standard for the connector, and has nothing to do with whether or not a given wire in the cable is used. 8p8c connectors cabled for gigabit ethernet connections require all four pairs for signaling, whereas 100TX only requires two pairs. this is independent of the connector itself. clarity needed! Anastrophe 20:27, 5 November 2007 (UTC)
Why does the search RJ45 redirect to this page when there is a page for RJ45? Is this a mistake or what...? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.246.85.160 ( talk) 19:47, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
Came here for the great wiring diagram that used to be at RJ45. Rich Farmbrough, 15:44 16 October 2008 (UTC).
Is this correct: They are the same thing, RJ45 is the Technical term for Ethernet cable. If so, maybe this should be clarified in the article. Inclusionist ( talk) 10:57, 5 December 2008 (UTC)
What is that tab of plastic that keeps the connector in the socket called? You have to push it down to remove it. Looking for the technical definition.... Could we add that to the article? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 12.155.20.214 ( talk) 17:14, 9 April 2009 (UTC)
In floodwired [3] environments the center (blue) pair is often used to carry telephony signals. Where so wired, the physical layout of the 8P8C modular jack allows for the insertion of an RJ11 plug in the center of the socket, provided the RJ11 plug is wired in true compliance with the U.S. telephony standards (RJ11) using the center pair.
— From article
Thanks to whoever added that to the article. I required confirmation that RJ11 plug will work in RJ45 socket for some home wiring. The article gave me that as well as the information on what pair to use. -- NJR_ZA ( talk) 18:23, 29 May 2009 (UTC)
The result of the proposal was no consensus to move. -- RegentsPark ( sticks and stones) 22:24, 14 September 2009 (UTC)
8P8C → RJ-45 — WP:UCN dictates that this article should be at the most commonly used title, and that is RJ-45. Here are a few published references that specifically attest to the widespread usage of RJ-45 over 8P8C: [1] [2] [3]. Note that these books are quite critical of the 8P8C terminology, noting that only "networking purists" and "the nerdiest of nerds" use this terminology, and everyone else ignores it. *** Crotalus *** 15:36, 28 August 2009 (UTC)
I really don't feel qualified to weigh in above on the move request, although I would prefer to see correct naming over common naming when talking about technical standards and not other more fleshy topics. That said:
RJ-45 terminology is three orders of magnitude more common than 8P8C, according to this unscientific Google search tool. As such, even if the article shouldn't be renamed, we plainly owe the reader a better explanation. If anything, Registered Jack has a better explanation than this article does of this article's own name. Simply saying "often incorrectly called RJ45)" in parentheses is vaguely insulting given the common usage.
Also note that the see also section has at least one ugly redirect and probably needs to be axed or rewritten to comply with the WP:MOS. MrZaius talk 03:33, 3 September 2009 (UTC)
{{
Main|Registered jack naming confusion}}
in a section for this in
Modular connector with
Registered jack naming confusion redirected to
Registered jack#Naming confusion as a {{
R to section}} would probably be the easiest way to go about clarifying this. It would also allow us to address all the different
Registered jacks that tend to get attributed to various modular plugs; e.g.
RJ11 (instead of say
RJ14 and
RJ25) for
6P2C,
6P4C, and
6P6C,
RJ22 for
4P4C,
RJ50 for
10P10C, etc. --
Tothwolf (
talk) 02:21, 4 September 2009 (UTC)
This is not "done" - As long as this piece remains seperate, the insultingly worded dismissal of the far more common misuse of RJ-45 nomenclature in favor of the correct nomenclature requires a rewrite. MrZaius talk 08:16, 4 September 2009 (UTC)
{{
Redirect|RJ45|nomenclature details|Registered jack#Naming confusion{{
!}}Registered jack}}
at the top of
8P8C while editing. --
Tothwolf (
talk) 09:25, 4 September 2009 (UTC)
I've seen 10P10C jacks which are the same width as a 8P8C. And there are 10P8C jacks as well.
So if those jack exist, then the corresponding plugs should exist too. That makes me wonder: Is a 8P8C actually a 10P8C?
I can clearly see that the "RJ-45" jacks on the back of my router have 10 positions but only 8 of them have metal contacts.
That means that a 8P modular connector is wide enough to hold 10 contacts, which makes me think finally: Shouldn't a 8P modular connector be named 10P instead??
This redirect does not require a rating on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||
|
The contents of the 8P8C page were merged into Modular connector on 2010-10-16 and it now redirects there. For the contribution history and old versions of the merged article please see its history. |
Although not the best method for people learning this information, the technically correct statement is xDSL (ADSL/SDSL).
It would be best to spell it out in something like this:
RJ45 (8P8C) connectors are commonly used with Ethernet and Fast-Ethernet Unshielded and/or Shielded Twisted Pair (UTP/STP) cabling. With the expanded availability of broadband Internet service, the cable connecting either an Asynchronous or a Synchronous Digital Subscriber Line (ADSL/SDSL) modem to a computer is the most easily locatable example of this system.
-- Enquiren 69.144.174.114 05:38, 18 December 2006 (UTC)
I thought ADSL/SDSL stood for Asymmetric.../Symmetric 213.143.18.224 16:44, 20 December 2006 (UTC)
You are correct. It is Asymmetric.../Symmetric based on whether the available bandwidth is unequally or equally distributed to transmit/receive operation. Asynchronous and Synchronous are typically used in a different context and not related to xDSL technologies.
The "x" in xDSL is a variable that can refer to the "A" of ADSL (Asymmetric) or the "S" (Symmetric) of SDSL or the "H" (High-rate) of HDSL, etc.; xDSL is the blanket term for all types of Digital Subscriber Lines collectively, it is not in itself a specific type of DSL (don't ask me why they couldn't just have DSL with no additional letter stand for the collective technologies). JohannVII ( talk) 23:48, 17 April 2009 (UTC)
The registered jack name for telephone wiring is RJ11. The registered jack name for ethernet wiring is RJ45. This is neither ambiguous nor confusing. The confusion comes when ethernet cabling (with RJ45 connectors) is used for multiline phone systems. The point is moot, however, with VOIP replacing POTS in homes and businesses across the country. Xalorous 13:14, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
If
RJ45 and
8P8C are not the same thing, why does RJ45 redirect to 8P8C? Doesn't make much sense. --
Devnevyn 08:09, 28 March 2007 (UTC)
This whole article is very confusing. The first sentence in the article says, basically, that 8P8C is the same as RJ45. (The article is titled "8P8C," but the first line says "These connectors are properly called RJ45.") But then only a few sentences later, it says that "The 8P8C modular plugs and jacks look very similar to the…RJ45," implying that they are NOT the same. (Emph. mine) Which is it?! Are they the same thing or not? If they're not the exact same thing, then it seems like there ought to be two separate pages, one on 8P8C, and one on RJ45. The 8P8C one might say that people commonly call it an "RJ45", but that RJ45 actually means something else, with a redirect to the page discussing it more precisely. But the page as it stands right now is confusing and self-contradictory. -- Kadin2048 06:09, 27 July 2007 (UTC)
Yeah, seriously, who the #$&@ cares what RJ45 used to mean to telephone installers in the 70s. Clearly everyone producing ethernet hardware these days labels the connectors as RJ45. The article can talk about the 70s phone interface stuff somewhere down at the bottom, but it shouldn't be so prominent. This whole freaking RJ45/8P8C article mess is just about some bull@#%5 no one cares about. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.233.80.254 ( talk) 05:45, 27 May 2008 (UTC)
The confusion seems to come from the fact that the Registered Jack specifications are wiring standards FOR JACKS (not modular connector terminations for cables). The article is confusing because the distinction between physical form-factor, electrical wiring, and pinouts (for both plugs and jacks) is never made clear. For example, RJ-11, RJ-14, and RJ-25 all typically use jacks with the same form-factor, 6-pin, but have 2,4, and 6 connections respectively. One may use a 6P6C plug and wire it for use with an RJ-11 jack, only connecting two of the contacts to wires, but the connector still has 6 pin slots and 6 contact points, so a 6P6C modular plug can be accurately described an RJ-11 CONNECTOR (or RJ-14, or RJ-25), but an RJ-11 JACK is a rigidly defined by a certain wiring scheme. By the same token, 8P8C connectors and jacks refer to a physical form factor (USOC-8) with 8 contact points; since these CAN BE wired in accordance with the RJ-45 spec, it's a bit reductionist but not actually wrong to call them RJ-45 jacks and plugs. It's certainly MORE correct to simply call them 8P8C, and if one is going to use RJ-45 in the description, something like "RJ-45-Style" would be best. I agree that the RJ-45 redirect to 8P8C is flat out wrong; a redirect to "Registered jack" would be better, and a disambiguation page listing at minimum 8P8C, a page on the actual RJ-45 wiring standard, and T568A/B wiring would be best. But RJ-11 as an idiom for 6P6C and RJ-45 for 8P8C are probably here to stay, like Xerox for photocopy and Kleenex for facial tissue, and railing against it isn't going to help. JohannVII ( talk) 23:31, 17 April 2009 (UTC)
The section on naming ambiguity has been marked as seeming not to be written in formal tone. I wrote that section, and would like to correct that to Wikipedia standards, but I would like more guidance. Formal tone usually reduces the comprehensibility of writing, so as a technical writer, I'm conditioned to avoid it. So while I can see several things in the section that could be more formal, I don't want to change them based just on a guess that it's what others find insufficiently formal.
Can someone give specific examples of insufficient formality?
This is a very important section; I believe many users of this article will be specifically trying to resolve some confusion they have about naming. So it ought to be as clear as possible, which tends to imply written in the language of the reader.
Bryan Henderson 23:29, 13 August 2006 (UTC)
Wikipedia:Guide_to_writing_better_articles does not ask for the use of any "formal tone". In fact, your tone is neither offensive nor hard to follow. To inform people about the confusion that lead to the use of "RJ45" in computer network wiring, I can't think of a more appropriate way of writing than yours. And first of all: It's just fun to read. That's why I'll delete the "inappropriate tone" flag (while the template of this flag itself is marked as "not verified"). If someone finds an even better way of writing, she/he still can help improve. -- Jhartmann 09:38, 28 August 2006 (UTC)
I can think of a more appropriate thing to say about RJ45 vs 8P8C.
The plugs for twisted pair ethernet ARE the plugs for Rj45 , which are clearly RJ45 plugs. That is all that matters.
If this article was about RJ45 wiring, Then and only then would it be wrong to confuse RJ45 and ethernet.
In my opinion, it is inappropriate to be so pendantic and so anal and so misleading , its more than just tone at fault, its
stupid "someone told me that it was wrong" hearsay put on as the truth
RJ45 plugs are not restricted to use in RJ45 wiring, so ethernet happily uses RJ45 plugs, its really really simple 202.92.40.202 ( talk) 05:54, 8 May 2009 (UTC)
Much of this article does not seem to be written in correct Wikipedia format. 4.154.50.145 00:34, 27 August 2006 (UTC)
not all connectors used for networking actually have all 8 pins present, and a descriptive title is probablly better than introducing yet another poorly understood acronym. Plugwash 20:24, 20 February 2007 (UTC)
This sentence seems to have been written by someone familiar with much older applications of this technology.
It neither uses all eight conductors (but only two of them for wires plus two for shorting a programming resistor) nor does it fit into 8P8C because the true RJ45 is "keyed".
This was true about 10 years ago, but since then Full-Duplex operation has become almost universally adopted - and Full-Duplex does actually use the remaining two pairs.
Also, how is an '8P8C' connector not keyed? I've just made sure by trying to put mine in the wrong way and it can't go.
87.194.8.35 19:58, 31 July 2007 (UTC)
i believe the lede is incorrect. it states "8P8C neither uses all eight conductors (but only two of them for wires plus two for shorting a programming resistor) nor does it fit into RJ45 because the true 8P8C is "keyed". Despite this, 8P8C modular connectors are nearly always called "RJ45" — which leads to a lot of confusion when telecommunication professionals meet with network installers." but that's almost a non-sequitur. 8p8c is a standard for the connector, and has nothing to do with whether or not a given wire in the cable is used. 8p8c connectors cabled for gigabit ethernet connections require all four pairs for signaling, whereas 100TX only requires two pairs. this is independent of the connector itself. clarity needed! Anastrophe 20:27, 5 November 2007 (UTC)
Why does the search RJ45 redirect to this page when there is a page for RJ45? Is this a mistake or what...? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.246.85.160 ( talk) 19:47, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
Came here for the great wiring diagram that used to be at RJ45. Rich Farmbrough, 15:44 16 October 2008 (UTC).
Is this correct: They are the same thing, RJ45 is the Technical term for Ethernet cable. If so, maybe this should be clarified in the article. Inclusionist ( talk) 10:57, 5 December 2008 (UTC)
What is that tab of plastic that keeps the connector in the socket called? You have to push it down to remove it. Looking for the technical definition.... Could we add that to the article? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 12.155.20.214 ( talk) 17:14, 9 April 2009 (UTC)
In floodwired [3] environments the center (blue) pair is often used to carry telephony signals. Where so wired, the physical layout of the 8P8C modular jack allows for the insertion of an RJ11 plug in the center of the socket, provided the RJ11 plug is wired in true compliance with the U.S. telephony standards (RJ11) using the center pair.
— From article
Thanks to whoever added that to the article. I required confirmation that RJ11 plug will work in RJ45 socket for some home wiring. The article gave me that as well as the information on what pair to use. -- NJR_ZA ( talk) 18:23, 29 May 2009 (UTC)
The result of the proposal was no consensus to move. -- RegentsPark ( sticks and stones) 22:24, 14 September 2009 (UTC)
8P8C → RJ-45 — WP:UCN dictates that this article should be at the most commonly used title, and that is RJ-45. Here are a few published references that specifically attest to the widespread usage of RJ-45 over 8P8C: [1] [2] [3]. Note that these books are quite critical of the 8P8C terminology, noting that only "networking purists" and "the nerdiest of nerds" use this terminology, and everyone else ignores it. *** Crotalus *** 15:36, 28 August 2009 (UTC)
I really don't feel qualified to weigh in above on the move request, although I would prefer to see correct naming over common naming when talking about technical standards and not other more fleshy topics. That said:
RJ-45 terminology is three orders of magnitude more common than 8P8C, according to this unscientific Google search tool. As such, even if the article shouldn't be renamed, we plainly owe the reader a better explanation. If anything, Registered Jack has a better explanation than this article does of this article's own name. Simply saying "often incorrectly called RJ45)" in parentheses is vaguely insulting given the common usage.
Also note that the see also section has at least one ugly redirect and probably needs to be axed or rewritten to comply with the WP:MOS. MrZaius talk 03:33, 3 September 2009 (UTC)
{{
Main|Registered jack naming confusion}}
in a section for this in
Modular connector with
Registered jack naming confusion redirected to
Registered jack#Naming confusion as a {{
R to section}} would probably be the easiest way to go about clarifying this. It would also allow us to address all the different
Registered jacks that tend to get attributed to various modular plugs; e.g.
RJ11 (instead of say
RJ14 and
RJ25) for
6P2C,
6P4C, and
6P6C,
RJ22 for
4P4C,
RJ50 for
10P10C, etc. --
Tothwolf (
talk) 02:21, 4 September 2009 (UTC)
This is not "done" - As long as this piece remains seperate, the insultingly worded dismissal of the far more common misuse of RJ-45 nomenclature in favor of the correct nomenclature requires a rewrite. MrZaius talk 08:16, 4 September 2009 (UTC)
{{
Redirect|RJ45|nomenclature details|Registered jack#Naming confusion{{
!}}Registered jack}}
at the top of
8P8C while editing. --
Tothwolf (
talk) 09:25, 4 September 2009 (UTC)
I've seen 10P10C jacks which are the same width as a 8P8C. And there are 10P8C jacks as well.
So if those jack exist, then the corresponding plugs should exist too. That makes me wonder: Is a 8P8C actually a 10P8C?
I can clearly see that the "RJ-45" jacks on the back of my router have 10 positions but only 8 of them have metal contacts.
That means that a 8P modular connector is wide enough to hold 10 contacts, which makes me think finally: Shouldn't a 8P modular connector be named 10P instead??