This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
This seems like unnecessary information:
Can we agree to make it like this instead:
PacificDepths ( talk) 23:40, 10 May 2022 (UTC)
Is this an endorsement from the Marina Times? It's a column from the Editor Emeritus, Susan Dyer Reynolds, but it does not appear to be a formal endorsement from the paper. User:Eccekevin: I saw that you added a Marina Times endorsement back. Thoughts? PacificDepths ( talk) 19:18, 24 May 2022 (UTC)
{{
cite web}}: External link in |title= (
help)
PacificDepths (
talk) 03:05, 31 May 2022 (UTC)
<ref>
"https://twitter.com/themarinatimes/status/1528912971891585024". Twitter. Retrieved 24 May 2022. {{
cite web}}
: External link in |title=
(
help)</ref>
<ref>
"Marina Times on Twitter". Twitter. Retrieved 24 May 2022.</ref>
PacificDepths (
talk) 09:34, 31 May 2022 (UTC)References
{{
cite web}}
: External link in |title=
(
help)
{{
cite web}}
: External link in |title=
(
help)
{{
cite web}}
: External link in |title=
(
help)
{{
cite web}}
: External link in |title=
(
help)
Editorials by news media really should be in their own section as they are based on reporting, research, and interviews, often with links to supporting articles and detail. Not following some party line. They are also not part of pro or anti-recall campaigns.
Also, editorials are not necessary endorsements of the individual (as this is a recall). For example, SF Chronicle argues for staying the course for reasons other than their support of Boudin himself.
Press editorials in an issue as nuanced as this one deserve their own section as seen in [1]
They should probably not be grouped with politicians and celebrity endorsements.
By putting press editorials at the bottom of the Endorsements box, we putting giving the press less weight than individual politicians and people who are vying for the DA position (specifically, Suzy Loftus, who lost to Boudin in the last election).
Drtofu ( talk) 03:12, 5 June 2022 (UTC)
References
Is she really significant enough of a person to list here?
Not only was she an appointee DA (i.e. not elected), and lost her first and only DA election to Boudin.
She and Nancy Tung, who were both running against Boudin in the DA race, were mentioned earlier in the entry as being for the recall. (see the San Francisco Democratic County Central Committee vote)
One argument for her being listed is how narrowly she lost the race. Drtofu ( talk) 07:41, 6 June 2022 (UTC)
Prior content in this article duplicated one or more previously published sources. The material was copied from: https://www.sfchronicle.com/politics/article/chesa-boudin-recall-17151778.php. Copied or closely paraphrased material has been rewritten or removed and must not be restored, unless it is duly released under a compatible license. (For more information, please see "using copyrighted works from others" if you are not the copyright holder of this material, or "donating copyrighted materials" if you are.)
For legal reasons, we cannot accept copyrighted text or images borrowed from other web sites or published material; such additions will be deleted. Contributors may use copyrighted publications as a source of information, and, if allowed under fair use, may copy sentences and phrases, provided they are included in quotation marks and referenced properly. The material may also be rewritten, providing it does not infringe on the copyright of the original or plagiarize from that source. Therefore, such paraphrased portions must provide their source. Please see our guideline on non-free text for how to properly implement limited quotations of copyrighted text. Wikipedia takes copyright violations very seriously, and persistent violators will be blocked from editing. While we appreciate contributions, we must require all contributors to understand and comply with these policies. Thank you. /wiae /tlk 10:39, 6 June 2022 (UTC)
@
Eccekevin: I used
WP:BRANCH as an example of establishing notability for branches of larger organizations. Having their own article is usually good enough to establish notability for the time being because there is no indication that, for example, a local chapter of the
United Association is in of itself notable just because they are a part of a larger umbrella organization (
WP:INHERITORG). This would suggest that they fail to meet the criteria for
WP:ENDORSE—1. Lists of endorsements should only include endorsements by notable organizations.
—and would not warrant an inclusion in the section.
Also a lot of the organizations that have not been deleted inside of the table are self-referential. It seems pre-emptive to list primary sources for entities that have not proven their own notability, therefore questioning the notability of their endorsements.
And I would like to see more evidence to support the claim that local branch endorsements of local races are standard in Wiki pages
because otherwise it seems pretty
WP:MILL to include the umpteenth political club endorsement.
—
BriefEdits (
talk) 04:06, 7 June 2022 (UTC)
I added the paragraph
"Overwhelmingly, organized Democratic Clubs and elected officials opposed the recall. Every elected Asian politician in San Francisco including Board Supervisors Eric Mar, Connie Chang, and State Assemblyman Phil Ting opposed it. In all, eight of the eleven members of the Board of Supervisors opposed the recall, as did every publication but one in San Francisco. Eighteen of the registered Democratic clubs in San Francisco opposed it, as did the NAACP and the ACLU."
Because a reader of the text might be confused into thinking that a majority of San Francisco politicians and political clubs supported the recall when in fact it was the other way around.
Ausman ( talk) 02:26, 25 Oct 2022 (UTC)
A causal observer could tend to think the second paragraph was written in support of the recall. I am suggesting trimming it rather than go into such exhaustive detail on this one point to have some semblance of balance.
In this case, it seems particularly strange to get to this inside-baseball level of detail, especially considering the brevity of this article.
This lack of context, balance, and additional perspectives is a problem throughout, I think, actually.
We -- and I include myself here -- are listing atomic facts of 'how' and 'what' in this article but completely lack the big-picture context of 'why' this got on the ballot in the first place, the controversies the lead to it, etc. (even though there are so many articles written about just that).
Why is there a Boudin recall? This context is necessary to actually make sense of these individual facts. And it seems facts about his record, crime, pandemic, politics, etc. would be important context as well.
I encourage us to fill in this gap. For example, the words 'crime' or 'prosecution' are nowhere to be found, and both are very much related to this recall effort. Drtofu ( talk) 10:02, 7 June 2022 (UTC)
Funding totals are notable in a political campaign.
Why is this sentence being removed repeatedly? "The pro-recall campaign has raised over $7.2 million, while the anti-recall campaign has raised over $3.3 million."
One reason given was that it was copyrighted — it is not, and I wrote it myself and google shows 0 matches. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Drtofu ( talk • contribs) 22:27, 13 June 2022 (UTC)
This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
This seems like unnecessary information:
Can we agree to make it like this instead:
PacificDepths ( talk) 23:40, 10 May 2022 (UTC)
Is this an endorsement from the Marina Times? It's a column from the Editor Emeritus, Susan Dyer Reynolds, but it does not appear to be a formal endorsement from the paper. User:Eccekevin: I saw that you added a Marina Times endorsement back. Thoughts? PacificDepths ( talk) 19:18, 24 May 2022 (UTC)
{{
cite web}}: External link in |title= (
help)
PacificDepths (
talk) 03:05, 31 May 2022 (UTC)
<ref>
"https://twitter.com/themarinatimes/status/1528912971891585024". Twitter. Retrieved 24 May 2022. {{
cite web}}
: External link in |title=
(
help)</ref>
<ref>
"Marina Times on Twitter". Twitter. Retrieved 24 May 2022.</ref>
PacificDepths (
talk) 09:34, 31 May 2022 (UTC)References
{{
cite web}}
: External link in |title=
(
help)
{{
cite web}}
: External link in |title=
(
help)
{{
cite web}}
: External link in |title=
(
help)
{{
cite web}}
: External link in |title=
(
help)
Editorials by news media really should be in their own section as they are based on reporting, research, and interviews, often with links to supporting articles and detail. Not following some party line. They are also not part of pro or anti-recall campaigns.
Also, editorials are not necessary endorsements of the individual (as this is a recall). For example, SF Chronicle argues for staying the course for reasons other than their support of Boudin himself.
Press editorials in an issue as nuanced as this one deserve their own section as seen in [1]
They should probably not be grouped with politicians and celebrity endorsements.
By putting press editorials at the bottom of the Endorsements box, we putting giving the press less weight than individual politicians and people who are vying for the DA position (specifically, Suzy Loftus, who lost to Boudin in the last election).
Drtofu ( talk) 03:12, 5 June 2022 (UTC)
References
Is she really significant enough of a person to list here?
Not only was she an appointee DA (i.e. not elected), and lost her first and only DA election to Boudin.
She and Nancy Tung, who were both running against Boudin in the DA race, were mentioned earlier in the entry as being for the recall. (see the San Francisco Democratic County Central Committee vote)
One argument for her being listed is how narrowly she lost the race. Drtofu ( talk) 07:41, 6 June 2022 (UTC)
Prior content in this article duplicated one or more previously published sources. The material was copied from: https://www.sfchronicle.com/politics/article/chesa-boudin-recall-17151778.php. Copied or closely paraphrased material has been rewritten or removed and must not be restored, unless it is duly released under a compatible license. (For more information, please see "using copyrighted works from others" if you are not the copyright holder of this material, or "donating copyrighted materials" if you are.)
For legal reasons, we cannot accept copyrighted text or images borrowed from other web sites or published material; such additions will be deleted. Contributors may use copyrighted publications as a source of information, and, if allowed under fair use, may copy sentences and phrases, provided they are included in quotation marks and referenced properly. The material may also be rewritten, providing it does not infringe on the copyright of the original or plagiarize from that source. Therefore, such paraphrased portions must provide their source. Please see our guideline on non-free text for how to properly implement limited quotations of copyrighted text. Wikipedia takes copyright violations very seriously, and persistent violators will be blocked from editing. While we appreciate contributions, we must require all contributors to understand and comply with these policies. Thank you. /wiae /tlk 10:39, 6 June 2022 (UTC)
@
Eccekevin: I used
WP:BRANCH as an example of establishing notability for branches of larger organizations. Having their own article is usually good enough to establish notability for the time being because there is no indication that, for example, a local chapter of the
United Association is in of itself notable just because they are a part of a larger umbrella organization (
WP:INHERITORG). This would suggest that they fail to meet the criteria for
WP:ENDORSE—1. Lists of endorsements should only include endorsements by notable organizations.
—and would not warrant an inclusion in the section.
Also a lot of the organizations that have not been deleted inside of the table are self-referential. It seems pre-emptive to list primary sources for entities that have not proven their own notability, therefore questioning the notability of their endorsements.
And I would like to see more evidence to support the claim that local branch endorsements of local races are standard in Wiki pages
because otherwise it seems pretty
WP:MILL to include the umpteenth political club endorsement.
—
BriefEdits (
talk) 04:06, 7 June 2022 (UTC)
I added the paragraph
"Overwhelmingly, organized Democratic Clubs and elected officials opposed the recall. Every elected Asian politician in San Francisco including Board Supervisors Eric Mar, Connie Chang, and State Assemblyman Phil Ting opposed it. In all, eight of the eleven members of the Board of Supervisors opposed the recall, as did every publication but one in San Francisco. Eighteen of the registered Democratic clubs in San Francisco opposed it, as did the NAACP and the ACLU."
Because a reader of the text might be confused into thinking that a majority of San Francisco politicians and political clubs supported the recall when in fact it was the other way around.
Ausman ( talk) 02:26, 25 Oct 2022 (UTC)
A causal observer could tend to think the second paragraph was written in support of the recall. I am suggesting trimming it rather than go into such exhaustive detail on this one point to have some semblance of balance.
In this case, it seems particularly strange to get to this inside-baseball level of detail, especially considering the brevity of this article.
This lack of context, balance, and additional perspectives is a problem throughout, I think, actually.
We -- and I include myself here -- are listing atomic facts of 'how' and 'what' in this article but completely lack the big-picture context of 'why' this got on the ballot in the first place, the controversies the lead to it, etc. (even though there are so many articles written about just that).
Why is there a Boudin recall? This context is necessary to actually make sense of these individual facts. And it seems facts about his record, crime, pandemic, politics, etc. would be important context as well.
I encourage us to fill in this gap. For example, the words 'crime' or 'prosecution' are nowhere to be found, and both are very much related to this recall effort. Drtofu ( talk) 10:02, 7 June 2022 (UTC)
Funding totals are notable in a political campaign.
Why is this sentence being removed repeatedly? "The pro-recall campaign has raised over $7.2 million, while the anti-recall campaign has raised over $3.3 million."
One reason given was that it was copyrighted — it is not, and I wrote it myself and google shows 0 matches. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Drtofu ( talk • contribs) 22:27, 13 June 2022 (UTC)