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2017 Aztec High School shooting article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
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2017 Aztec High School shooting has been listed as one of the
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please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can
reassess it. Review: April 7, 2024. ( Reviewed version). |
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On 15 February 2024, it was proposed that this article be moved to Aztec High School shooting. The result of the discussion was not moved. |
To be added:
Thanks. Viriditas ( talk) 02:09, 10 September 2022 (UTC)
Update: User:Doomslaiyer wishes to add the following:
When Atchison was 11 years old, he discovered the Encyclopedia Dramatica website, and eventually became a sysop for the website, where he would write and edit many School Shooting articles the site had to offer. He used his power to upload pictures of White Supremacist propaganda. Several ED admins went to the site's forums to complain but no action was presumably taken.
No source was offered for this proposed addition, but if memory serves, a small part of this is supported by Zadrozny & Collins 2017. I didn't add it originally because it was too inside baseball, but I think Doomslaiyer is correct in that the most verifiable parts of it should be added. I'm just objecting to adding the parts that can't be verified, which is why I reverted. Viriditas ( talk) 23:24, 2 October 2022 (UTC)
Moved to talk. Unsourced. Viriditas ( talk) 08:00, 20 January 2023 (UTC)
Atchison's online activity included writing pro-Hitler and pro-Trump posts on Internet forums
User:Mercur70 has repeatedly removed the mention of Atchison’s pro-Trump posts because the user believes this equates Trump with Hitler. I don’t see how that’s a valid rationale for removal, as white supremacists like Atchison were called "very fine people" by Trump, who held problematic racial views just like his father. Fred Trump was arrested and detained at a Klan rally in 1927 for refusing to leave. This could explain why former Ku Klux Klan grand wizard David Duke was one of Trump’s earliest endorsers in 2016.
The point I’m making is that we don’t need to equate Trump with Hitler, he has lived a life making the equation for himself, and white supremacists like Atchison were drawn to Trump as a result. That Atchison was both pro-Hitler and pro-Trump makes perfect sense in this context and in the community of online white supremacist that Atchison supported. Of course, I haven’t even mentioned, that according to his ex-wife, Trump used to read the collected works of Hitler’s speeches before he went to bed at night, and it was one of the only books he ever used to read.
None of that matters, but I offer it as background for the user in question. What does matter is that the sources support the material. The sources tell us that Atchison posted pro-Trump and pro-Hitler messages online. Not just one source, many sources. Noting this doesn’t equate Trump with Hitler. If we wanted to equate Trump with Hitler in the article, we would have to show how a Trump slogan or idea was related to Hitler and the Nazis. For example, I could show how Hitler used to use the phrase "Make Germany Great Again" in a speech from 1940. Perhaps this phrase was also in a book Trump kept by his bed and read at night, giving him the idea to use MAGA. That would be an attempt to equate Trump with Hitler. Nobody is doing that here.
Is there any doubt that Atchison was posting pro-Trump and pro-Hitler comments online? No. Journalists, researchers, and law enforcement investigators have confirmed it, and these things have been published. Atchison was drawn to Trump just as much as he was to Hitler, and it’s not up to us to equate them or explain the connection in this article on the shooting, and we haven’t. That information is easy to find elsewhere, as I have demonstrated up above. Viriditas ( talk) 20:29, 7 March 2023 (UTC)
People keep changing the motive from "unknown" to "Encyclopedia Dramatica". This isn't supported by the sources that I've seen, but if there are new ones, feel free to add them. The police reports (and sources covering them) maintain that the motive is unknown. Initially, I was skeptical, and I read about the role Encyclopedia Dramatica played in the attacks. But after reading all of the available sources, it becomes clear that there's no way to assign a motive to the perpetrator based on the known evidence. Viriditas ( talk) 00:45, 1 October 2023 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: not moved. – robertsky ( talk) 13:30, 9 March 2024 (UTC)
2017 Aztec High School shooting → Aztec High School shooting – Year is not needed as the name of the school distinguishes it enough. MountainDew20 ( talk) 22:23, 15 February 2024 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
GA toolbox |
---|
Reviewing |
Nominator: PARAKANYAA ( talk · contribs)
Reviewer: PCN02WPS ( talk · contribs) 06:02, 26 March 2024 (UTC)
Happy to review this. I can't guarantee that I will get to it before Wednesday afternoon but I will do what I can to give this a look before too long.
PCN02WPS (
talk |
contribs) 06:02, 26 March 2024 (UTC)
Lead and infobox
Background
Shooting
Aftermath
Sorry for the delay in getting this done - this is what I have from my first read-through. Nice work, no rush in getting to these. PCN02WPS ( talk | contribs) 19:38, 31 March 2024 (UTC)
Just a few more things:
A couple minor prose/punctuation things I picked up on my second time through. PCN02WPS ( talk | contribs) 02:04, 7 April 2024 (UTC)
The result was: promoted by
PrimalMustelid
talk 01:26, 29 April 2024 (UTC)
Number of QPQs required: 0. Nominator has less than 5 past nominations.
Post-promotion hook changes will be logged on the talk page; consider watching the nomination until the hook appears on the Main Page.PARAKANYAA ( talk) 20:00, 7 April 2024 (UTC).
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
2017 Aztec High School shooting article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
Archives: 1 |
2017 Aztec High School shooting has been listed as one of the
Social sciences and society good articles under the
good article criteria. If you can improve it further,
please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can
reassess it. Review: April 7, 2024. ( Reviewed version). |
This article must adhere to the biographies of living persons (BLP) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially libellous. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to this noticeboard.If you are a subject of this article, or acting on behalf of one, and you need help, please see this help page. |
This article is rated GA-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
On 15 February 2024, it was proposed that this article be moved to Aztec High School shooting. The result of the discussion was not moved. |
To be added:
Thanks. Viriditas ( talk) 02:09, 10 September 2022 (UTC)
Update: User:Doomslaiyer wishes to add the following:
When Atchison was 11 years old, he discovered the Encyclopedia Dramatica website, and eventually became a sysop for the website, where he would write and edit many School Shooting articles the site had to offer. He used his power to upload pictures of White Supremacist propaganda. Several ED admins went to the site's forums to complain but no action was presumably taken.
No source was offered for this proposed addition, but if memory serves, a small part of this is supported by Zadrozny & Collins 2017. I didn't add it originally because it was too inside baseball, but I think Doomslaiyer is correct in that the most verifiable parts of it should be added. I'm just objecting to adding the parts that can't be verified, which is why I reverted. Viriditas ( talk) 23:24, 2 October 2022 (UTC)
Moved to talk. Unsourced. Viriditas ( talk) 08:00, 20 January 2023 (UTC)
Atchison's online activity included writing pro-Hitler and pro-Trump posts on Internet forums
User:Mercur70 has repeatedly removed the mention of Atchison’s pro-Trump posts because the user believes this equates Trump with Hitler. I don’t see how that’s a valid rationale for removal, as white supremacists like Atchison were called "very fine people" by Trump, who held problematic racial views just like his father. Fred Trump was arrested and detained at a Klan rally in 1927 for refusing to leave. This could explain why former Ku Klux Klan grand wizard David Duke was one of Trump’s earliest endorsers in 2016.
The point I’m making is that we don’t need to equate Trump with Hitler, he has lived a life making the equation for himself, and white supremacists like Atchison were drawn to Trump as a result. That Atchison was both pro-Hitler and pro-Trump makes perfect sense in this context and in the community of online white supremacist that Atchison supported. Of course, I haven’t even mentioned, that according to his ex-wife, Trump used to read the collected works of Hitler’s speeches before he went to bed at night, and it was one of the only books he ever used to read.
None of that matters, but I offer it as background for the user in question. What does matter is that the sources support the material. The sources tell us that Atchison posted pro-Trump and pro-Hitler messages online. Not just one source, many sources. Noting this doesn’t equate Trump with Hitler. If we wanted to equate Trump with Hitler in the article, we would have to show how a Trump slogan or idea was related to Hitler and the Nazis. For example, I could show how Hitler used to use the phrase "Make Germany Great Again" in a speech from 1940. Perhaps this phrase was also in a book Trump kept by his bed and read at night, giving him the idea to use MAGA. That would be an attempt to equate Trump with Hitler. Nobody is doing that here.
Is there any doubt that Atchison was posting pro-Trump and pro-Hitler comments online? No. Journalists, researchers, and law enforcement investigators have confirmed it, and these things have been published. Atchison was drawn to Trump just as much as he was to Hitler, and it’s not up to us to equate them or explain the connection in this article on the shooting, and we haven’t. That information is easy to find elsewhere, as I have demonstrated up above. Viriditas ( talk) 20:29, 7 March 2023 (UTC)
People keep changing the motive from "unknown" to "Encyclopedia Dramatica". This isn't supported by the sources that I've seen, but if there are new ones, feel free to add them. The police reports (and sources covering them) maintain that the motive is unknown. Initially, I was skeptical, and I read about the role Encyclopedia Dramatica played in the attacks. But after reading all of the available sources, it becomes clear that there's no way to assign a motive to the perpetrator based on the known evidence. Viriditas ( talk) 00:45, 1 October 2023 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: not moved. – robertsky ( talk) 13:30, 9 March 2024 (UTC)
2017 Aztec High School shooting → Aztec High School shooting – Year is not needed as the name of the school distinguishes it enough. MountainDew20 ( talk) 22:23, 15 February 2024 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
GA toolbox |
---|
Reviewing |
Nominator: PARAKANYAA ( talk · contribs)
Reviewer: PCN02WPS ( talk · contribs) 06:02, 26 March 2024 (UTC)
Happy to review this. I can't guarantee that I will get to it before Wednesday afternoon but I will do what I can to give this a look before too long.
PCN02WPS (
talk |
contribs) 06:02, 26 March 2024 (UTC)
Lead and infobox
Background
Shooting
Aftermath
Sorry for the delay in getting this done - this is what I have from my first read-through. Nice work, no rush in getting to these. PCN02WPS ( talk | contribs) 19:38, 31 March 2024 (UTC)
Just a few more things:
A couple minor prose/punctuation things I picked up on my second time through. PCN02WPS ( talk | contribs) 02:04, 7 April 2024 (UTC)
The result was: promoted by
PrimalMustelid
talk 01:26, 29 April 2024 (UTC)
Number of QPQs required: 0. Nominator has less than 5 past nominations.
Post-promotion hook changes will be logged on the talk page; consider watching the nomination until the hook appears on the Main Page.PARAKANYAA ( talk) 20:00, 7 April 2024 (UTC).