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...to use the commercial names when listing the venues for the 2012 season. For example, Bellerive Oval → Blundstone Arena, Sydney Showgrounds → Skoda Stadium, Kardinia Park → Simonds Stadium. Unless anything has changed since this discussion... Ignorant Armies 03:00, 28 October 2011 (UTC)
...and also, to keep Game Notes both notable and referenced. I intend to stick fairly closely to the guidelines that we tacitly agreed upon last year in this discussion. Aspirex ( talk) 06:44, 9 March 2012 (UTC)
This topic is obviously broader than this article, but I'm not sure where to take it.
Rupert Murdoch is promising a paywall for his newspaper websites. User Trex21 added a "Note" to Round 4 telling us that today's game was the 2,500th VFL/AFL match at the MCG. It's a good "fact", but I wondered how far back this went, and did it include the VFA days? I went to the source, Murdoch's Herald Sun, and bumped into a demand that I log in before I could see past the first two sentences. I won't log in, so I cannot check the source.
The Herald Sun has historically been one of our most frequent sources for AFL articles. What is our position on this? HiLo48 ( talk) 09:30, 21 April 2012 (UTC)
Number of possessions is a very recent statistic added to the game by the media. It's not in the same class as number of goals or behinds, or even number of marks. It's arbitrary, and hardly guaranteed to be accurate. I really don't believe we should be listing it as a significant item, and certainly not as any sort of record. I heard a radio comment this morning listing several old time players who had a lot more touches. HiLo48 ( talk) 08:25, 4 June 2012 (UTC)
Sheed's 900th was actually his 899th, he missed one in 2006
http://www.essendonfc.com.au/news/a/O%27Donnell-to-steer-the-ship-in-Sheedy-absence/4796
251 games + 634 coach (Ess) + 14 (GWS)
This comment about Sheedy is incorrect. See the next section for explanation. Aspirex ( talk) 12:35, 4 August 2012 (UTC)
I've just removed the following two items:
An obvious inconsistency, I'm guessing the higher figure probably includes night series, or pre-season, or minor grades or state games or something like that. Even with an explanation, I don't think we should be including both comments, and I'd omit the 900th in preference of the 1000th. Aspirex ( talk) 06:01, 4 August 2012 (UTC)
All of these include the missing one as outlined above, so it's really only 999. Better left out.
For Sheedy's game totals, the 900th match in Round 15 was Premiership matches (home & away + finals). The 1000th in Round 19 was all matches (home & away, pre-season, finals, state of origin, international rules ect). If we want to keep the 900th match then put in that it was his 900th premiership match, the other as his 1000th AFL match. Regarding the issue with a missing game, this may well be correct and the AFL have jumped the gate. Regardless the AFL celebrated his 1000th game in Round 19 - players from both teams performed a guard of honour for Sheedy before the game and the Giants presented him with a shield commemorating his 1000th game in the rooms after the game. The media and players all talked about his 1000th game during the week and there are numerous news sites that have reported on this. The afl.com.au match also report gives numerous reference to his 1000th game - http://www.afl.com.au/news/newsarticle/tabid/208/newsid/143532/default.aspx. With the stats.rleague argument, it's a valid point and I myself use this site as a reference. They may well be correct, but personally I'd rather go with the official AFL references in this instance. Merlination ( talk) 12:01, 5 August 2012 (UTC)
References
I'm against the list of free agents in this article at the moment, and I think we should delete it immediately. All we have is a list of players who have stated an intention to leave their clubs, and they date they said this is the case, which is kind of irrelevant. We should wait until their destination is determined; then, if they find another club, include it in a 'Free Agency Signings' section of 2012 AFL Draft; and, if they don't find another club, list them under delistings/retirements in this page. Aspirex ( talk) 07:54, 7 September 2012 (UTC)
I'd like to propose a few changes to this section:
Firstly, that for each of the tables (player changes, free agents and coach changes), these be made collapsable hidden tables as they previously were. At the very least make the player changes table collapsable hidden. The list is incredibly long and takes up a lot of space. I don't suggest removing it entirely or removing players from the list, that's for another discussion, but if the best and fairest winners and club leadership tables are collapsable hidden then I would argue that this should be too.
Secondly, that the format for the player free agents be changed so that it only includes players who have actually signed to a new club via free agency. I would suggest using a similar table to that on the 2012 AFL Draft#Trades page, except without having the status column. For this season page I would argue that we only need to include players who have actually moved clubs via free agency and not those that have declared themselves free agents or are seeking offers from other clubs. Merlination ( talk) 05:04, 1 October 2012 (UTC)
How about this then:
Move/copy - all player changes, player free agents and coach changes to 2012 AFL season#Retirements, sackings and delistings. Currently this page is a redirect to the section on the season page. I don't believe that this list should be removed entirely as only 6 of 18 teams have their own 2012 season page. It's not worth listing every single player that got delisted on the 2012 AFL season page, so move them all to this new page. Maybe remove the free agents from this new page and have main article links on both to the 2012 AFL draft page.
Keep - player changes, but only list player retirements that meet any of the following criteria:
I would argue that 200 games is too high of a criteria. A lot of retirements are due to long term injury and some players never get the chance to play that many games. Have the table with the following columns - Player, club, previous clubs, games, years, notes (reference and possibly reason of retirement). May want to still include players with certain circumstances i.e. sacked midway through season, died, anything unusual ect.
Keep - coach changes. They are notable enough to keep on the main page. Merlination ( talk) 02:56, 2 October 2012 (UTC)
There is ongoing disagreement about what individual player milestones should be included in gamenotes on AFL season pages.
The current guideline, as given in Talk:2011 AFL season#Gamenotes - notability, is that only the 200th, 300th, 400th and a club-record breaking milestone is noted. This was based on a set of guidelines which I drew up in 2011 – and, let's face it, it was a long list, and nobody really had the energy to debate any of the finer points before. I'm not here to win this argument; let's get a consensus and update the guidelines accordingly. Aspirex ( talk) 06:57, 24 January 2013 (UTC)
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...to use the commercial names when listing the venues for the 2012 season. For example, Bellerive Oval → Blundstone Arena, Sydney Showgrounds → Skoda Stadium, Kardinia Park → Simonds Stadium. Unless anything has changed since this discussion... Ignorant Armies 03:00, 28 October 2011 (UTC)
...and also, to keep Game Notes both notable and referenced. I intend to stick fairly closely to the guidelines that we tacitly agreed upon last year in this discussion. Aspirex ( talk) 06:44, 9 March 2012 (UTC)
This topic is obviously broader than this article, but I'm not sure where to take it.
Rupert Murdoch is promising a paywall for his newspaper websites. User Trex21 added a "Note" to Round 4 telling us that today's game was the 2,500th VFL/AFL match at the MCG. It's a good "fact", but I wondered how far back this went, and did it include the VFA days? I went to the source, Murdoch's Herald Sun, and bumped into a demand that I log in before I could see past the first two sentences. I won't log in, so I cannot check the source.
The Herald Sun has historically been one of our most frequent sources for AFL articles. What is our position on this? HiLo48 ( talk) 09:30, 21 April 2012 (UTC)
Number of possessions is a very recent statistic added to the game by the media. It's not in the same class as number of goals or behinds, or even number of marks. It's arbitrary, and hardly guaranteed to be accurate. I really don't believe we should be listing it as a significant item, and certainly not as any sort of record. I heard a radio comment this morning listing several old time players who had a lot more touches. HiLo48 ( talk) 08:25, 4 June 2012 (UTC)
Sheed's 900th was actually his 899th, he missed one in 2006
http://www.essendonfc.com.au/news/a/O%27Donnell-to-steer-the-ship-in-Sheedy-absence/4796
251 games + 634 coach (Ess) + 14 (GWS)
This comment about Sheedy is incorrect. See the next section for explanation. Aspirex ( talk) 12:35, 4 August 2012 (UTC)
I've just removed the following two items:
An obvious inconsistency, I'm guessing the higher figure probably includes night series, or pre-season, or minor grades or state games or something like that. Even with an explanation, I don't think we should be including both comments, and I'd omit the 900th in preference of the 1000th. Aspirex ( talk) 06:01, 4 August 2012 (UTC)
All of these include the missing one as outlined above, so it's really only 999. Better left out.
For Sheedy's game totals, the 900th match in Round 15 was Premiership matches (home & away + finals). The 1000th in Round 19 was all matches (home & away, pre-season, finals, state of origin, international rules ect). If we want to keep the 900th match then put in that it was his 900th premiership match, the other as his 1000th AFL match. Regarding the issue with a missing game, this may well be correct and the AFL have jumped the gate. Regardless the AFL celebrated his 1000th game in Round 19 - players from both teams performed a guard of honour for Sheedy before the game and the Giants presented him with a shield commemorating his 1000th game in the rooms after the game. The media and players all talked about his 1000th game during the week and there are numerous news sites that have reported on this. The afl.com.au match also report gives numerous reference to his 1000th game - http://www.afl.com.au/news/newsarticle/tabid/208/newsid/143532/default.aspx. With the stats.rleague argument, it's a valid point and I myself use this site as a reference. They may well be correct, but personally I'd rather go with the official AFL references in this instance. Merlination ( talk) 12:01, 5 August 2012 (UTC)
References
I'm against the list of free agents in this article at the moment, and I think we should delete it immediately. All we have is a list of players who have stated an intention to leave their clubs, and they date they said this is the case, which is kind of irrelevant. We should wait until their destination is determined; then, if they find another club, include it in a 'Free Agency Signings' section of 2012 AFL Draft; and, if they don't find another club, list them under delistings/retirements in this page. Aspirex ( talk) 07:54, 7 September 2012 (UTC)
I'd like to propose a few changes to this section:
Firstly, that for each of the tables (player changes, free agents and coach changes), these be made collapsable hidden tables as they previously were. At the very least make the player changes table collapsable hidden. The list is incredibly long and takes up a lot of space. I don't suggest removing it entirely or removing players from the list, that's for another discussion, but if the best and fairest winners and club leadership tables are collapsable hidden then I would argue that this should be too.
Secondly, that the format for the player free agents be changed so that it only includes players who have actually signed to a new club via free agency. I would suggest using a similar table to that on the 2012 AFL Draft#Trades page, except without having the status column. For this season page I would argue that we only need to include players who have actually moved clubs via free agency and not those that have declared themselves free agents or are seeking offers from other clubs. Merlination ( talk) 05:04, 1 October 2012 (UTC)
How about this then:
Move/copy - all player changes, player free agents and coach changes to 2012 AFL season#Retirements, sackings and delistings. Currently this page is a redirect to the section on the season page. I don't believe that this list should be removed entirely as only 6 of 18 teams have their own 2012 season page. It's not worth listing every single player that got delisted on the 2012 AFL season page, so move them all to this new page. Maybe remove the free agents from this new page and have main article links on both to the 2012 AFL draft page.
Keep - player changes, but only list player retirements that meet any of the following criteria:
I would argue that 200 games is too high of a criteria. A lot of retirements are due to long term injury and some players never get the chance to play that many games. Have the table with the following columns - Player, club, previous clubs, games, years, notes (reference and possibly reason of retirement). May want to still include players with certain circumstances i.e. sacked midway through season, died, anything unusual ect.
Keep - coach changes. They are notable enough to keep on the main page. Merlination ( talk) 02:56, 2 October 2012 (UTC)
There is ongoing disagreement about what individual player milestones should be included in gamenotes on AFL season pages.
The current guideline, as given in Talk:2011 AFL season#Gamenotes - notability, is that only the 200th, 300th, 400th and a club-record breaking milestone is noted. This was based on a set of guidelines which I drew up in 2011 – and, let's face it, it was a long list, and nobody really had the energy to debate any of the finer points before. I'm not here to win this argument; let's get a consensus and update the guidelines accordingly. Aspirex ( talk) 06:57, 24 January 2013 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on 2012 AFL season. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
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source check}}
(last update: 18 January 2022).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 17:34, 19 June 2017 (UTC)