The subject of this article is controversial and content may be in dispute. When updating the article, be bold, but not reckless. Feel free to try to improve the article, but don't take it personally if your changes are reversed; instead, come here to the talk page to discuss them. Content must be written from a neutral point of view. Include citations when adding content and consider tagging or removing unsourced information. |
This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||
|
This article has been
mentioned by a media organization:
|
|
||
This page has archives. Sections older than 90 days may be automatically archived by Lowercase sigmabot III when more than 5 sections are present. |
Just a quick reminder on why Wikipedia must not tolerate the proposed paragraph which MariusM has tried to introduce, which has been reverted by at least four editors, and which is the reason why this article is now locked. The following is from Wikipedia:NPOV_tutorial#Insinuation... - Mauco 14:19, 7 October 2006 (UTC)
While hinting or insinuating may feel weak, it is a powerful tool and abuse of it is a common way of introducing bias. Consider the example:
To mention the minister's left-handedness in this context is to imply that it is relevant. As a result, this juxtaposition of otherwise neutral statements has the effect of fostering prejudice, in particular the prejudice that all left-handers are wimps (i.e. also lacking backbone). Insinuations of this sort are guaranteed to prompt complaints. Do not use or tolerate them.
In that case, gladly back to the issues at hand (being mediated)...
As I mentioned, perhaps the writing style could be improved, that's a small issue. It would seem things boil down to the following:
Now, while labeled home brew original research, the question of reported personal experiences does also come into play in arriving at a judgement on balance. On the one hand, we have workers who are told to vote and how. (This is not permissible as it is hearsay and/or original research.) On the other hand, we have Viktors Alksnis presented as an accredited impartial believable observer when, based on his past conduct elsewhere, he is a criminal. (But his being quoted as the referendum was on the up-and-up is OK, just repeating what was reported in the press.) If we are to steer the middle course—indeed, if there is to even be a middle course—then the banning of opposition and the intimidation of pro-Moldovan groups is an essential counter-balance to the PMR government reporting a rapturous response of the masses overwhelmingly choosing the government's position.
It's at least a stake in the ground—let's see how the dialog develops. — Pēters J. Vecrumba 06:23, 8 October 2006 (UTC)
Mauco, we had almost a month of discussions about this article. Wikipedia is not your propriety and you should not ask veto rights for all Transnistria related articles. I don't believe further discussions in the talk page will help, it will be only a loss of time. The way the article looks now, with hiding of relevant information, is a shame for Wikipedia, but it seems you like it. If you work only in Transnistria related article, other will like to work on other topics as well, and being blocked one month for an article disturb them to bring other contributions at Wikipedia. A Request for Mediation was filed for this article, and was agreed by me, Vecrumba, int19h, Cedrins. Please accept the mediation, don't play with our time. Don't teach me Wikipedia's dispute resolution process, mediation is a normal step after almost one month of discussions, and the Mediation Comitee already accepted this case. All you have to do is to agree to mediation. All arguments should be told in the mediation process.-- MariusM 09:42, 10 October 2006 (UTC)
I'll do some more work on this, obviously, in the next couple of days. However, to the first point, the banning of pro-Moldovan parties, the reference currently cited ("The Policy of Linguistic Cleansing in Transistria") specifically deals with the banning of Radchencko's and Buceatskiy's parties because advocating Moldavian union would mean liquidation of the PMR state. The article contains appropriate references in support of its claims and findings. I would also mention that some of the more "inflamatory," shall we say, descriptions, are also in this article, appropriately attributed. (Brzezinski calls the PMR a "mafia" run (!) country.)
As to the parties, anyone who reverted, etc. and disagrees with the two statements specifically in mediation are completely welcome to comment here.
In reading through the currently at 35+ page (printed) Talk section and the editing history, it is clear to me at least that Marius, the main protagonist of the one side, has in fact annotated claims; but, it appears to me that because his English is not as polished as that of other contributors, his writing has been taken at times (a) to mean not exactly what was meant and/or (b) to be his personal ventings and histrionics against the PMR when, in fact, he was practically typing verbatim what has appeared elsewhere in print. Mauco--et al. but still the principle protagonist on the other side--is not an unreasonable person--only demanding citations, but in my own limited experience, far too eager to jump immediately to the words "unsubstantiated," "original research," "irresponsible," etc., viz. Talk:Vladimir Antyufeev: "Even on this page, to jump right in and label Antyufeev as a high ranking KGB officer was a bit irresponsible, if I may say so...," comment made a couple of days after I cited my source on the Talk page. I for one don't like being talked about as being "irresponsible," however, I am probably better able to defend myself (speaking only in terms of written English) if needed—though if I responded in kind, it would only make the Talk page longer.
As for stacking the deck, this isn't a shouting match, so whatever is decided here is not going to be based on "numbers" of people on each side. My particular interest is in post-Soviet policy, primarily as manifested in Latvia and the rest of the Baltics; however, given the particular cast of characters in the PMR including Black Berets (who killed Latvian freedom demonstrators)--and working on good references for that one--the PMR needs to be revealed for what it is (yes, that would be my POV), but only through incontrovertible and substantiated fact, that is, NPOV presentation. (For example, my personal feelings about the Soviet and Russian governments don't prevent me from working on a NPOV history of Russians in Latvia.) I think we have those facts at hand to support the two statements now in mediation (which, as I indicated earlier, should be judged on their content and not grammar). No one is out to "get Mauco."— Pēters J. Vecrumba 20:09, 10 October 2006 (UTC)
http://www.vremea.net/news/2006-09-19/15:20:03.html is a Moldovan article highly critical of the refendum. Nowhere does it give any credence to any of the wild claims from the Moldovan Helsinki guys. The article has other complaints, however, which are more believable. By omission, it shows how far removed from reality that the fantastic claims by Stefan U.'s group really are... - Mauco 02:36, 22 November 2006 (UTC)
References
this is about something that Mauco and Mariusm was arguing about six month ago, I just found this policy that I want to share since its so relevant:
there are some things in the article that fall under this heading, let us move it out until someone can provide multiple reliable sources, especially politically charged issues that is the case here Pernambuco 21:54, 25 February 2007 (UTC)
Alaexis rephrased the sentence regarding the arrest of pro-moldovan activists from Dignitas with "According to Moldovan sources...". Not only Moldovan sources told about the arrest of Dignitas guys, Tiraspol Times also [3] (of course, in a propagandistic way to justify the arrests). As TT is not meeting Wiki criteria for WP:RS, I would not mention in mainspace this article, but is clear the the arrest is an undeniable fact, recorded not only by Moldovan sources. With the exception of Tiraspol Times, no other transnistrian media was allow to mention this fact, as there is no press freedom in Transnistria. TT is a website for foreigners, they didn't have a printed edition with Dignitas arrest available in Tiraspol, this is why they were allowed to mention the fact.-- MariusM 14:53, 29 April 2007 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just added archive links to 2 external links on
Transnistrian independence referendum, 2006. Please take a moment to review
my edit. If necessary, add {{
cbignore}}
after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add {{
nobots|deny=InternetArchiveBot}}
to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true to let others know.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 18 January 2022).
Cheers.— cyberbot II Talk to my owner:Online 16:15, 17 January 2016 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just added archive links to 10 external links on
Transnistrian independence referendum, 2006. Please take a moment to review
my edit. If necessary, add {{
cbignore}}
after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add {{
nobots|deny=InternetArchiveBot}}
to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true to let others know.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 18 January 2022).
Cheers.— cyberbot II Talk to my owner:Online 06:33, 19 February 2016 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just added archive links to one external link on
Transnistrian independence referendum, 2006. Please take a moment to review
my edit. If necessary, add {{
cbignore}}
after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add {{
nobots|deny=InternetArchiveBot}}
to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true or failed to let others know (documentation at {{
Sourcecheck}}
).
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 18 January 2022).
Cheers.— cyberbot II Talk to my owner:Online 06:03, 1 March 2016 (UTC)
The subject of this article is controversial and content may be in dispute. When updating the article, be bold, but not reckless. Feel free to try to improve the article, but don't take it personally if your changes are reversed; instead, come here to the talk page to discuss them. Content must be written from a neutral point of view. Include citations when adding content and consider tagging or removing unsourced information. |
This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||
|
This article has been
mentioned by a media organization:
|
|
||
This page has archives. Sections older than 90 days may be automatically archived by Lowercase sigmabot III when more than 5 sections are present. |
Just a quick reminder on why Wikipedia must not tolerate the proposed paragraph which MariusM has tried to introduce, which has been reverted by at least four editors, and which is the reason why this article is now locked. The following is from Wikipedia:NPOV_tutorial#Insinuation... - Mauco 14:19, 7 October 2006 (UTC)
While hinting or insinuating may feel weak, it is a powerful tool and abuse of it is a common way of introducing bias. Consider the example:
To mention the minister's left-handedness in this context is to imply that it is relevant. As a result, this juxtaposition of otherwise neutral statements has the effect of fostering prejudice, in particular the prejudice that all left-handers are wimps (i.e. also lacking backbone). Insinuations of this sort are guaranteed to prompt complaints. Do not use or tolerate them.
In that case, gladly back to the issues at hand (being mediated)...
As I mentioned, perhaps the writing style could be improved, that's a small issue. It would seem things boil down to the following:
Now, while labeled home brew original research, the question of reported personal experiences does also come into play in arriving at a judgement on balance. On the one hand, we have workers who are told to vote and how. (This is not permissible as it is hearsay and/or original research.) On the other hand, we have Viktors Alksnis presented as an accredited impartial believable observer when, based on his past conduct elsewhere, he is a criminal. (But his being quoted as the referendum was on the up-and-up is OK, just repeating what was reported in the press.) If we are to steer the middle course—indeed, if there is to even be a middle course—then the banning of opposition and the intimidation of pro-Moldovan groups is an essential counter-balance to the PMR government reporting a rapturous response of the masses overwhelmingly choosing the government's position.
It's at least a stake in the ground—let's see how the dialog develops. — Pēters J. Vecrumba 06:23, 8 October 2006 (UTC)
Mauco, we had almost a month of discussions about this article. Wikipedia is not your propriety and you should not ask veto rights for all Transnistria related articles. I don't believe further discussions in the talk page will help, it will be only a loss of time. The way the article looks now, with hiding of relevant information, is a shame for Wikipedia, but it seems you like it. If you work only in Transnistria related article, other will like to work on other topics as well, and being blocked one month for an article disturb them to bring other contributions at Wikipedia. A Request for Mediation was filed for this article, and was agreed by me, Vecrumba, int19h, Cedrins. Please accept the mediation, don't play with our time. Don't teach me Wikipedia's dispute resolution process, mediation is a normal step after almost one month of discussions, and the Mediation Comitee already accepted this case. All you have to do is to agree to mediation. All arguments should be told in the mediation process.-- MariusM 09:42, 10 October 2006 (UTC)
I'll do some more work on this, obviously, in the next couple of days. However, to the first point, the banning of pro-Moldovan parties, the reference currently cited ("The Policy of Linguistic Cleansing in Transistria") specifically deals with the banning of Radchencko's and Buceatskiy's parties because advocating Moldavian union would mean liquidation of the PMR state. The article contains appropriate references in support of its claims and findings. I would also mention that some of the more "inflamatory," shall we say, descriptions, are also in this article, appropriately attributed. (Brzezinski calls the PMR a "mafia" run (!) country.)
As to the parties, anyone who reverted, etc. and disagrees with the two statements specifically in mediation are completely welcome to comment here.
In reading through the currently at 35+ page (printed) Talk section and the editing history, it is clear to me at least that Marius, the main protagonist of the one side, has in fact annotated claims; but, it appears to me that because his English is not as polished as that of other contributors, his writing has been taken at times (a) to mean not exactly what was meant and/or (b) to be his personal ventings and histrionics against the PMR when, in fact, he was practically typing verbatim what has appeared elsewhere in print. Mauco--et al. but still the principle protagonist on the other side--is not an unreasonable person--only demanding citations, but in my own limited experience, far too eager to jump immediately to the words "unsubstantiated," "original research," "irresponsible," etc., viz. Talk:Vladimir Antyufeev: "Even on this page, to jump right in and label Antyufeev as a high ranking KGB officer was a bit irresponsible, if I may say so...," comment made a couple of days after I cited my source on the Talk page. I for one don't like being talked about as being "irresponsible," however, I am probably better able to defend myself (speaking only in terms of written English) if needed—though if I responded in kind, it would only make the Talk page longer.
As for stacking the deck, this isn't a shouting match, so whatever is decided here is not going to be based on "numbers" of people on each side. My particular interest is in post-Soviet policy, primarily as manifested in Latvia and the rest of the Baltics; however, given the particular cast of characters in the PMR including Black Berets (who killed Latvian freedom demonstrators)--and working on good references for that one--the PMR needs to be revealed for what it is (yes, that would be my POV), but only through incontrovertible and substantiated fact, that is, NPOV presentation. (For example, my personal feelings about the Soviet and Russian governments don't prevent me from working on a NPOV history of Russians in Latvia.) I think we have those facts at hand to support the two statements now in mediation (which, as I indicated earlier, should be judged on their content and not grammar). No one is out to "get Mauco."— Pēters J. Vecrumba 20:09, 10 October 2006 (UTC)
http://www.vremea.net/news/2006-09-19/15:20:03.html is a Moldovan article highly critical of the refendum. Nowhere does it give any credence to any of the wild claims from the Moldovan Helsinki guys. The article has other complaints, however, which are more believable. By omission, it shows how far removed from reality that the fantastic claims by Stefan U.'s group really are... - Mauco 02:36, 22 November 2006 (UTC)
References
this is about something that Mauco and Mariusm was arguing about six month ago, I just found this policy that I want to share since its so relevant:
there are some things in the article that fall under this heading, let us move it out until someone can provide multiple reliable sources, especially politically charged issues that is the case here Pernambuco 21:54, 25 February 2007 (UTC)
Alaexis rephrased the sentence regarding the arrest of pro-moldovan activists from Dignitas with "According to Moldovan sources...". Not only Moldovan sources told about the arrest of Dignitas guys, Tiraspol Times also [3] (of course, in a propagandistic way to justify the arrests). As TT is not meeting Wiki criteria for WP:RS, I would not mention in mainspace this article, but is clear the the arrest is an undeniable fact, recorded not only by Moldovan sources. With the exception of Tiraspol Times, no other transnistrian media was allow to mention this fact, as there is no press freedom in Transnistria. TT is a website for foreigners, they didn't have a printed edition with Dignitas arrest available in Tiraspol, this is why they were allowed to mention the fact.-- MariusM 14:53, 29 April 2007 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just added archive links to 2 external links on
Transnistrian independence referendum, 2006. Please take a moment to review
my edit. If necessary, add {{
cbignore}}
after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add {{
nobots|deny=InternetArchiveBot}}
to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true to let others know.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 18 January 2022).
Cheers.— cyberbot II Talk to my owner:Online 16:15, 17 January 2016 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just added archive links to 10 external links on
Transnistrian independence referendum, 2006. Please take a moment to review
my edit. If necessary, add {{
cbignore}}
after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add {{
nobots|deny=InternetArchiveBot}}
to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true to let others know.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 18 January 2022).
Cheers.— cyberbot II Talk to my owner:Online 06:33, 19 February 2016 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just added archive links to one external link on
Transnistrian independence referendum, 2006. Please take a moment to review
my edit. If necessary, add {{
cbignore}}
after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add {{
nobots|deny=InternetArchiveBot}}
to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true or failed to let others know (documentation at {{
Sourcecheck}}
).
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 18 January 2022).
Cheers.— cyberbot II Talk to my owner:Online 06:03, 1 March 2016 (UTC)