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Similar event the year before?

Someone amended Formula One to add details of a similar Ferrari 'team orders' incident in 2001. The words added were as follows:

In the Austrian Grand Prix in 2001, Rubens Barrichello, Schumacher's teammate at Ferrari who was 2nd in the race, was ordered by Ferrari to allow Schumacher to overtake him under "team orders". Barrichello let him pass on the last lap at the finish line. But this was further uproar to come at the same track the following year when the same situation happened, only this time, it was for the lead of the race. And not only did Barrichello slow down to let Schumacher through, the world champion made his embarrased team-made stand on the top-step of the podium which caused outrage with the supporters at the circuit and around the world. As a direct consequence of this controversial race, the FIA banned any further use of team orders in the new rules and regulations and fined the Ferrari team $1million for their actions. It was Ferrari all the way

If this is accurate, we could mention here that a similar incident occured the year before. I haven't checked the accuracy of the statement, though. I've deleted it from the main F1 article as being too much detail for an article which is already over long and slightly incidental. 4u1e 18:59, 22 June 2006 (UTC) reply

YouTube links

This article is one of thousands on Wikipedia that have a link to YouTube in it. Based on the External links policy, most of these should probably be removed. I'm putting this message here, on this talk page, to request the regular editors take a look at the link and make sure it doesn't violate policy. In short: 1. 99% of the time YouTube should not be used as a source. 2. We must not link to material that violates someones copyright. If you are not sure if the link on this article should be removed, feel free to ask me on my talk page and I'll review it personally. Thanks. --- J.S ( t| c) 06:49, 7 November 2006 (UTC) reply

WikiProject class rating

This article was automatically assessed because at least one WikiProject had rated the article as start, and the rating on other projects was brought up to start class. BetacommandBot 17:00, 29 August 2007 (UTC) reply

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The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by 97198 ( talk) 03:34, 28 September 2019 (UTC) reply

(
)

5x expanded by MWright96 ( talk). Self-nominated at 13:44, 18 September 2019 (UTC). reply

  • This article is a fivefold expansion and is new enough and long enough. The hook facts are cited inline and any of the hooks could be used, the article is neutral and I detected no copyright or plagiarism issues. A QPQ has been done. I remember the race well and the controversy it caused. Cwmhiraeth ( talk) 13:05, 21 September 2019 (UTC) reply

GA Review

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Reviewing
This review is transcluded from Talk:2002 Austrian Grand Prix/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Usernameunique ( talk · contribs) 02:09, 9 April 2020 (UTC) reply


Lead
  • That this was a 71-lap race isn't mentioned in the body of the article.
Background
  • 70 percent of the lap could be driven at full racing speed — Could, or can? The preceding sentence is in the present tense.
  • What about low altitude reduced engine performance?
    • Edited MWright96 (talk) 07:40, 9 April 2020 (UTC) reply
      • Looking at the source, this is incorrect. The altitude was considered high, not low, and so there was less oxygen to power the combustion engines. I've edited accordingly.
  • Ferrari led with 50 points, seven ahead of Williams in second place. McLaren were another 30 points behind in third. — A bit more math than I'd like to do while perusing. Can you just state how many McLaren had?
Practice
  • Heidfeld's on-track running — Heidfeld's track time?
  • the overall track lap record — Meaning the track's all-time record? What's the time he beat, and who set it/when?
    • Reworded MWright96 (talk) 07:40, 9 April 2020 (UTC) reply
      • The rewording only affects prose. It still does not explain whether "overall track lap record" indeed means the track's all-time record. It also does not state what time he beat, who set the previous time, and when that time was set.
        • Have rewritten since I can't find that information MWright96 (talk) 05:36, 11 April 2020 (UTC) reply
  • Bernoldi missed 25 minutes due to a malfunctioning gearbox. He lost control of the rear of his car at Remus corner and beached in a gravel trap before the session ended. — So they repaired the gearbox, he got back on the track, and then he decided to take a closer look at the gravel?
Qualifying
  • After running wide on oil and an unsighted Mika Salo's Toyota putting him in a gravel trap at Remus Kurve turn on his final timed lap, Barrichello took his second pole position of the season and the fifth of his career with a lap of 1 minute and 8.082 seconds. — I'm pretty confused by this sentence. What does "running wide on oil mean"? What's "an unsighted Mika Salo's Toyota"? Surely "Kurve turn" is redundant? And the sentence starts with Barrichello's bad last lap, then surprises the reader by saying he actually did quite well. Perhaps start with his fast lap, then talk about his last lap.
  • did not earn a front-row start for the first time since the 2001 Italian Grand Prix. — How many races ago was that? And just to confirm, a front-row start is being one of the top two?
  • A1 Kurve corner — Redundant?
  • on the leaked oil. — From the engine failure?
  • Remus Kurve turn — Redundant?
  • Webber optimised his PS02's balance on its qualifying tyre — What does this mean?
Warm-up
  • Remus Kurve corner — Redundant?
  • Castrol Kurve turn — Ditto
  • Castrol Kurve corner — Same
  • Ron Dennis ... argued Ferrari should permit their drivers to race each other without the imposition of team orders — Was there any more discussion about this before the race? What made him say it here? Is it a common thing for someone to say before a race, but team orders are only invoked rarely?
    • There was no such discussions as far as it known and it was added since the team orders became an issue later on in the day MWright96 (talk) 07:40, 9 April 2020 (UTC) reply
  • extended from turn one to the first portion of the straight driving towards turn one — And now there's this problem. -- Usernameunique ( talk) 06:55, 11 April 2020 (UTC) reply
Race
  • Castrol Kurve turn — Redundant? Why linked here but not earlier?
  • At Remus Kurve corner — Redundant?
  • he slowed en route to retire in the pit lane — Did he retire at the end of that lap?
  • after Castrol Kurve turn — Redundant?
  • lost it ethrough a driver error. — What was the error?
  • failed in Remus Kurve turn — Redundant?
  • at the A1 Kurve corner — Ditto
  • Villeneuve had incurred a drive-through penalty — What's this?
  • Track marshals worked to extricate Panis' car — Worked to extricate it from what? If the track, I'd suggest "worked to remove".
  • entered Remus Kurve corner — Redundant?
  • from the apex — Link apex?
  • He veered right through 180 degrees to the inside backwards — What does this mean?
  • at Remus Kurve corner — Redundant?
  • avoided grazing his right thigh — Then what caused the soft-tissue damage?
  • What does it mean for a head restraint to be deformable?
    • It meant it could withstand accidents and be reshaped MWright96 (talk) 07:40, 9 April 2020 (UTC) reply
  • several teams except for Ferrari and Williams — Meaning every team except for Ferrari and Williams?
  • Coulthard at Remus Kurve corner — Redundant?
  • This improved Schumacher's position in the World Drivers' Championship with a win earning him ten points. — Feels like we're getting ahead of ourselves here, since he still had 8 laps to go.
  • Ferrari advised Barrichello they would terminate his contract if he failed to do so. Barrichello reminded Todt of a promise he made not to relinquish a victory to a driver. This prompted Todt to reply to Barrichello that he was required to obey his instruction to preserve Ferrari's "best interests". — Ouch. This conversation actually played out over the radio? They didn't think to have the conversation ahead of time?
  • Todt then wrote a small paper note, which he gave to the technical director Ross Brawn, with the instruction for Barrichello to cede the win to Michael Schumacher. — Why was the note required? Hadn't he already told Barrichello to stand down?
  • entered A1 Kurve turn — Redundant?
  • Michael Schumacher slowed more than his teammate — Why?
  • Montoya completed the podium in third — I'd add how far behind he was; in reading about the Barrichello and Schumacher hitting the brakes, my first thought was to wonder how far back the third-place driver was.
  • It was the second year in succession that Barrichello had been asked to relinquish a position to his teammate Michael Schumacher — I would move this note up to the previous paragraph.
  • The photographs do a good job of breaking up the text. You might think about choosing some places to add subsections, although they would of course be somewhat arbitrary. No harm if you keep it as is.
Post-race
  • the package of his car — What's this?
  • The FIA summoned Ferrari and its drivers — When did they summon them (i.e., the date on which they told them to show up on 26 June)?
  • divided into equal amounts between the trio — So Barrichello had to pay $166,666 for losing? Double ouch.
    • Well for standing on the wrong step of the podium because Schumacher implored him to do so as a way of demonstrating to all that Barrichello was the moral winner of the race MWright96 (talk) 07:40, 9 April 2020 (UTC) reply
  • The FIA accepted feedback from 5 July to 1 September, which the working group accepted. — I'm not sure if the second clause is redundant, or if you're trying to say that the FIA accepted feedback and then passed it onto the working group.
  • The parallels between how Michael Schumacher and Alonso won those races proved to be the catalyst — The parallels proved to be the catalyst, or just the realization that it probably happened frequently without overt evidence?
  • we'd had the discussion before the race about how we would manage that situation if it occurred — Then what about the back-and-forth between Barrichello and Todt?
Race classification
  • Is ten retirements particularly high?
    • In that time period yes because cars were less reliable than they are now MWright96 (talk) 07:40, 9 April 2020 (UTC) reply

Overall

  • Nicely done, MWright96. Plenty of comments above but nothing major. -- Usernameunique ( talk) 04:06, 9 April 2020 (UTC) reply
    • @ Usernameunique: Have made changes were possible. In response to asking whether it is redundant to mention turn names, I have changed them to a generic meaning since their names have changed but mentioning where on the circuit an overtake or accident happened is not redundant. MWright96 (talk) 07:40, 9 April 2020 (UTC) reply
      • Thanks, MWright96. I'll go through the responses tomorrow. What I meant about the redundancy is that, taking "Remus Kurve turn" for an example, it basically means "Remus Corner turn"; "corner" and "turn" mean the same thing here. So I would think just "Remus Kurve" and similar would do. -- Usernameunique ( talk) 07:47, 9 April 2020 (UTC) reply
Retrieved from " https://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Talk:2002_Austrian_Grand_Prix&oldid=1196367040"
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Similar event the year before?

Someone amended Formula One to add details of a similar Ferrari 'team orders' incident in 2001. The words added were as follows:

In the Austrian Grand Prix in 2001, Rubens Barrichello, Schumacher's teammate at Ferrari who was 2nd in the race, was ordered by Ferrari to allow Schumacher to overtake him under "team orders". Barrichello let him pass on the last lap at the finish line. But this was further uproar to come at the same track the following year when the same situation happened, only this time, it was for the lead of the race. And not only did Barrichello slow down to let Schumacher through, the world champion made his embarrased team-made stand on the top-step of the podium which caused outrage with the supporters at the circuit and around the world. As a direct consequence of this controversial race, the FIA banned any further use of team orders in the new rules and regulations and fined the Ferrari team $1million for their actions. It was Ferrari all the way

If this is accurate, we could mention here that a similar incident occured the year before. I haven't checked the accuracy of the statement, though. I've deleted it from the main F1 article as being too much detail for an article which is already over long and slightly incidental. 4u1e 18:59, 22 June 2006 (UTC) reply

YouTube links

This article is one of thousands on Wikipedia that have a link to YouTube in it. Based on the External links policy, most of these should probably be removed. I'm putting this message here, on this talk page, to request the regular editors take a look at the link and make sure it doesn't violate policy. In short: 1. 99% of the time YouTube should not be used as a source. 2. We must not link to material that violates someones copyright. If you are not sure if the link on this article should be removed, feel free to ask me on my talk page and I'll review it personally. Thanks. --- J.S ( t| c) 06:49, 7 November 2006 (UTC) reply

WikiProject class rating

This article was automatically assessed because at least one WikiProject had rated the article as start, and the rating on other projects was brought up to start class. BetacommandBot 17:00, 29 August 2007 (UTC) reply

External links modified

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The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by 97198 ( talk) 03:34, 28 September 2019 (UTC) reply

(
)

5x expanded by MWright96 ( talk). Self-nominated at 13:44, 18 September 2019 (UTC). reply

  • This article is a fivefold expansion and is new enough and long enough. The hook facts are cited inline and any of the hooks could be used, the article is neutral and I detected no copyright or plagiarism issues. A QPQ has been done. I remember the race well and the controversy it caused. Cwmhiraeth ( talk) 13:05, 21 September 2019 (UTC) reply

GA Review

GA toolbox
Reviewing
This review is transcluded from Talk:2002 Austrian Grand Prix/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Usernameunique ( talk · contribs) 02:09, 9 April 2020 (UTC) reply


Lead
  • That this was a 71-lap race isn't mentioned in the body of the article.
Background
  • 70 percent of the lap could be driven at full racing speed — Could, or can? The preceding sentence is in the present tense.
  • What about low altitude reduced engine performance?
    • Edited MWright96 (talk) 07:40, 9 April 2020 (UTC) reply
      • Looking at the source, this is incorrect. The altitude was considered high, not low, and so there was less oxygen to power the combustion engines. I've edited accordingly.
  • Ferrari led with 50 points, seven ahead of Williams in second place. McLaren were another 30 points behind in third. — A bit more math than I'd like to do while perusing. Can you just state how many McLaren had?
Practice
  • Heidfeld's on-track running — Heidfeld's track time?
  • the overall track lap record — Meaning the track's all-time record? What's the time he beat, and who set it/when?
    • Reworded MWright96 (talk) 07:40, 9 April 2020 (UTC) reply
      • The rewording only affects prose. It still does not explain whether "overall track lap record" indeed means the track's all-time record. It also does not state what time he beat, who set the previous time, and when that time was set.
        • Have rewritten since I can't find that information MWright96 (talk) 05:36, 11 April 2020 (UTC) reply
  • Bernoldi missed 25 minutes due to a malfunctioning gearbox. He lost control of the rear of his car at Remus corner and beached in a gravel trap before the session ended. — So they repaired the gearbox, he got back on the track, and then he decided to take a closer look at the gravel?
Qualifying
  • After running wide on oil and an unsighted Mika Salo's Toyota putting him in a gravel trap at Remus Kurve turn on his final timed lap, Barrichello took his second pole position of the season and the fifth of his career with a lap of 1 minute and 8.082 seconds. — I'm pretty confused by this sentence. What does "running wide on oil mean"? What's "an unsighted Mika Salo's Toyota"? Surely "Kurve turn" is redundant? And the sentence starts with Barrichello's bad last lap, then surprises the reader by saying he actually did quite well. Perhaps start with his fast lap, then talk about his last lap.
  • did not earn a front-row start for the first time since the 2001 Italian Grand Prix. — How many races ago was that? And just to confirm, a front-row start is being one of the top two?
  • A1 Kurve corner — Redundant?
  • on the leaked oil. — From the engine failure?
  • Remus Kurve turn — Redundant?
  • Webber optimised his PS02's balance on its qualifying tyre — What does this mean?
Warm-up
  • Remus Kurve corner — Redundant?
  • Castrol Kurve turn — Ditto
  • Castrol Kurve corner — Same
  • Ron Dennis ... argued Ferrari should permit their drivers to race each other without the imposition of team orders — Was there any more discussion about this before the race? What made him say it here? Is it a common thing for someone to say before a race, but team orders are only invoked rarely?
    • There was no such discussions as far as it known and it was added since the team orders became an issue later on in the day MWright96 (talk) 07:40, 9 April 2020 (UTC) reply
  • extended from turn one to the first portion of the straight driving towards turn one — And now there's this problem. -- Usernameunique ( talk) 06:55, 11 April 2020 (UTC) reply
Race
  • Castrol Kurve turn — Redundant? Why linked here but not earlier?
  • At Remus Kurve corner — Redundant?
  • he slowed en route to retire in the pit lane — Did he retire at the end of that lap?
  • after Castrol Kurve turn — Redundant?
  • lost it ethrough a driver error. — What was the error?
  • failed in Remus Kurve turn — Redundant?
  • at the A1 Kurve corner — Ditto
  • Villeneuve had incurred a drive-through penalty — What's this?
  • Track marshals worked to extricate Panis' car — Worked to extricate it from what? If the track, I'd suggest "worked to remove".
  • entered Remus Kurve corner — Redundant?
  • from the apex — Link apex?
  • He veered right through 180 degrees to the inside backwards — What does this mean?
  • at Remus Kurve corner — Redundant?
  • avoided grazing his right thigh — Then what caused the soft-tissue damage?
  • What does it mean for a head restraint to be deformable?
    • It meant it could withstand accidents and be reshaped MWright96 (talk) 07:40, 9 April 2020 (UTC) reply
  • several teams except for Ferrari and Williams — Meaning every team except for Ferrari and Williams?
  • Coulthard at Remus Kurve corner — Redundant?
  • This improved Schumacher's position in the World Drivers' Championship with a win earning him ten points. — Feels like we're getting ahead of ourselves here, since he still had 8 laps to go.
  • Ferrari advised Barrichello they would terminate his contract if he failed to do so. Barrichello reminded Todt of a promise he made not to relinquish a victory to a driver. This prompted Todt to reply to Barrichello that he was required to obey his instruction to preserve Ferrari's "best interests". — Ouch. This conversation actually played out over the radio? They didn't think to have the conversation ahead of time?
  • Todt then wrote a small paper note, which he gave to the technical director Ross Brawn, with the instruction for Barrichello to cede the win to Michael Schumacher. — Why was the note required? Hadn't he already told Barrichello to stand down?
  • entered A1 Kurve turn — Redundant?
  • Michael Schumacher slowed more than his teammate — Why?
  • Montoya completed the podium in third — I'd add how far behind he was; in reading about the Barrichello and Schumacher hitting the brakes, my first thought was to wonder how far back the third-place driver was.
  • It was the second year in succession that Barrichello had been asked to relinquish a position to his teammate Michael Schumacher — I would move this note up to the previous paragraph.
  • The photographs do a good job of breaking up the text. You might think about choosing some places to add subsections, although they would of course be somewhat arbitrary. No harm if you keep it as is.
Post-race
  • the package of his car — What's this?
  • The FIA summoned Ferrari and its drivers — When did they summon them (i.e., the date on which they told them to show up on 26 June)?
  • divided into equal amounts between the trio — So Barrichello had to pay $166,666 for losing? Double ouch.
    • Well for standing on the wrong step of the podium because Schumacher implored him to do so as a way of demonstrating to all that Barrichello was the moral winner of the race MWright96 (talk) 07:40, 9 April 2020 (UTC) reply
  • The FIA accepted feedback from 5 July to 1 September, which the working group accepted. — I'm not sure if the second clause is redundant, or if you're trying to say that the FIA accepted feedback and then passed it onto the working group.
  • The parallels between how Michael Schumacher and Alonso won those races proved to be the catalyst — The parallels proved to be the catalyst, or just the realization that it probably happened frequently without overt evidence?
  • we'd had the discussion before the race about how we would manage that situation if it occurred — Then what about the back-and-forth between Barrichello and Todt?
Race classification
  • Is ten retirements particularly high?
    • In that time period yes because cars were less reliable than they are now MWright96 (talk) 07:40, 9 April 2020 (UTC) reply

Overall

  • Nicely done, MWright96. Plenty of comments above but nothing major. -- Usernameunique ( talk) 04:06, 9 April 2020 (UTC) reply
    • @ Usernameunique: Have made changes were possible. In response to asking whether it is redundant to mention turn names, I have changed them to a generic meaning since their names have changed but mentioning where on the circuit an overtake or accident happened is not redundant. MWright96 (talk) 07:40, 9 April 2020 (UTC) reply
      • Thanks, MWright96. I'll go through the responses tomorrow. What I meant about the redundancy is that, taking "Remus Kurve turn" for an example, it basically means "Remus Corner turn"; "corner" and "turn" mean the same thing here. So I would think just "Remus Kurve" and similar would do. -- Usernameunique ( talk) 07:47, 9 April 2020 (UTC) reply
Retrieved from " https://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Talk:2002_Austrian_Grand_Prix&oldid=1196367040"

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