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4 girls died in the bombing. It was a horrible tragedy.
On 1963-11-18 John Coltrane recorded "Alabama," a composition made in response to the bombing.
Given that double jeopardy assures you can't be tried for a crime of which you've already been acquitted, how did they manage to convict Chambliss of the murders in 1977 when he had already been acquitted? Angr/ talk 16:33, 16 February 2006 (UTC)
I don't know if this is the case, but it would not be double jeopardy if one set of charges was in State court, and the other in Federal court. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2602:30A:C08C:A6F0:219:E3FF:FE04:C392 ( talk) 14:45, 16 February 2013 (UTC)
why do the names of each the four girls need a link if the link redirects to the same page you link from? Im taking the links out. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Tyler Thibeaux ( talk • contribs).
Did the kkk release any sort of statement after the attacks or did they just lay low and try to stay away from the aftermath of the incident? Dermo69
66.118.236.226 15:38, 15 February 2007 (UTC)
We really need some footnoting here WP:CITE. Some of these comments, although quite believable really need to be sourced through a note. The Bull Conner quotes especially. JodyB 16:40, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
This section has grown into a WP:TRIVIA section, which doesn't really add anything to the article. Some of the works mentioned, such as Joan Baez' and John Coltrane's pieces could be considered more important than others, like the mention in a Drive-By Truckers' song. But still, per the suggestion of the guideline on trivia sections, I'd like to move the important ones into the article text and drop the others. Not sure when I'll get to it, so here's a chance to chime in before I get too bold. -- Dystopos 22:11, 9 May 2007 (UTC)
I made an infobox out of information in the text. - Flubeca Talk 16:29, 15 September 2007 (UTC)
Hate
This just proves that hate can eat people away until they are stupid and cluelessly cruel. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Dilan linh ( talk • contribs) 22:50, 7 January 2008 (UTC)
I did a project on these girls. One of these girls(denise) is my age. I can't imagine the pain and greif these parents went through. These girls died because of their skin color. That is not a good reason for someone to kill another being. Especially children. They were just begining to become younge ladies. These girls had bright futures ahead of them.can you imagine what they would be doing to do if they didn't die? I just can't get over this tragedy. Especialy because im related to one of the girls(denise). I wish I could have had the chance to meet her........... —Preceding unsigned comment added by MzELMO ( talk • contribs) 16:27, 10 July 2008 (UTC)
"More than 8,000 mourners, including 3 clergymen of all races, attended the service. No city officials attended."
Only 3 of the more than 8,000 mourners were clergy? Hmmm... something about that sentence doesn't sound right. I was going to check, but the reference just leads to a website listing a bunch of other websites. Can someone checks this out and perhaps find a direct source? Thanks. Tad Lincoln ( talk) 03:25, 5 February 2009 (UTC)
The link to "Naverly Church Bombing" should be taken out, what does a bombing of a church in sri lanka have to do with the African American civil rights movement? should we just include every article about a church bombing in the "see also" section as well, and heck why not every attack on a mosque or synagogue or hindu temple? 99.231.211.103 ( talk) 05:35, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
Was his name ever in the article along with Cagle? They were arrested in connection to the bombing. One was a paid informant who got involved with the crime. One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest had a recreated news report in it about Hall's arrest and I was trying to verify the dates and details. I found this:
Alatari ( talk) 13:54, 26 April 2010 (UTC)
looking through previous revisions reveals this article is a target for vandals. i restored the lead paragraph from a previous revision, but it seems the list of victims has been removed. does anyone know if there is a reason for this? imo, the section should be restored, along with the "findagrave" templates (
[1]).
Badmachine (
talk) 07:48, 2 August 2010 (UTC)
This article says Chambliss was found not guilty of murder for the bombing in 1968. Then he was re-tried for the same crime in 1977 (which raises questions of double jeopardy). In contrast, the page for Robert Edward Chambliss says that there was no trial in 68 (which would resolve the question). - Keith D. Tyler ¶ 19:10, 27 November 2012 (UTC)
The girls' ages were not correct and I updated them with a source. Another user then reverted my good faith edit because they feel that "history is better than reporting." That's nonsensical. Their ages and real histories matter. Documentation of the facts of the past comprises history. So does contesting them, but with other documentation--and in this case, I have never seen any suggestion that their reported birth years were wrong. 2602:306:3774:E8C0:F971:F876:BD5C:B128 ( talk) 06:44, 25 June 2014 (UTC)js
Great work lately on the article. One historical item missing concerns the fact that both James Bevel and Diane Nash said that this bombing, and the deaths of the four teens, moved them to create what became known as the Alabama Project for Voting Rights, which they then worked on (along with James Orange and others) from the day of the bombing to the final steps of the Selma to Montgomery march. Bevel said that when he heard of the bombing at the church in which he had organized, trained, and led the students in their Birmingham Children's Crusade, that he at first wanted to kill the murderers. He then took that same energy and turned it into a solution - an extended plan for voting rights for all of-age citizens so that elected officials would be responsive and responsible to and for all of their constituents. Along this timeline Bevel eventually headed up SCLC's Selma Voting Rights Movement and initiated and directed the Selma to Montgomery marches, legacies of the death and destruction involved in the murderous actions at the 16th Street Baptist Church. Randy Kryn 12:20 14 March, 2015 (UTC)
Page 104 of this online source states "as such many of these attacks are rightfully considered acts of terrorism".-- Kieronoldham ( talk) 23:42, 4 July 2015 (UTC)
First, I was supposed to check my talk page. Now this one. What's the point of all this, User:Kieronoldham? InedibleHulk (talk) 03:44, 6 July 2015 (UTC)
A report in of that nature is a compilation of findings. It is a statement of what professional individuals say are their findings. As for structure, to take one example only: Cochran said many things throughout the trial: in his profession, he states/says many things in his closing argument to the jury. In the sentence in question, there are many things outlined which he said to the jury, before he "also added" the info. in question in that closing argument.
To me, those words would be stated, given context, rather than "said".
I'm not being pedantic, and certainly hope nobody accuses me of WP:OWN. My concern - in addition to the above - emanates from the fact that you seem to be working on several articles of this nature at once and as such may not devote as much time to articles.-- Kieronoldham ( talk) 03:58, 6 July 2015 (UTC)
Indeed, "stated that" is more wordier than "said", but it is the context of the speech in which the words are spoken (before a court of law in an argument, for example) which affirms whether what an individual has said is what he/she is offering as a statement to be assessed/scrutinized etc. The report in 1965 is a statement of findings compiled (and for analysis and scrutiny). Personally, that is an example of what I feel should remain as "stated" as opposed to "said", too, as are Cantrell's words re: Chambliss, and Cobbs stating, under oath in a court of law, what Chambliss had confided to her. What an individual says in daily life situations without fear of those words being analyzed, on a casual basis, is what is "said". What he/she speaks to an official, a jury, or what in context is analyzed (the voice recordings contested and counter-contested by opposing, arguing counsels at the trial) is would better read as being a statement i.e. Blanton never "stated" he had planned the bomb. Personally I stand firm on this one. If MalikShabazz or any other editor with this page on his/her watchlist agrees with you on this issue rather than me then, as stated, that is fine as consensus governs.
Wallace's words need to be taken into context rather than expanded upon. I would have thought the example sentence keeps things to a minimum, avoiding unnecessary, extensive detail, while ensuring things were in context? Addie "had observed" the four victims maybe is a little too in depth, although she was the last person to see four historically significant individuals alive. Maybe "saw" or, better yet, "had seen", would suffice with this one? Can't fathom arguments emanating there.
As for Cross's statement of recollection, the text immediately alternates between the tragic events of the day to a survivor's recollections almost 40 years later (that is where the "chronological" statement emanated from). To me, the choice of words perfectly clarifies that he recollected ("would recollect") them before a court of law, much later, when justice was finally served. The structure of the article as a whole steers the reader through these events and how social attitudes of the era eroded and equal rights finally allowed Cross, in a different era, to finally state his recollections before the courts almost 40 years later. It reads perfectly to me, given context.
Regards, and I apologize if I sounded abrasive yesterday.-- Kieronoldham ( talk) 00:59, 7 July 2015 (UTC)
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This sentence appears under the "funeral"section: At the time of the funerals, two of those critically injured in the bombing were still hospitalized, as was a 16-year-old white teenager named Dennis Robertson, who had been hit on the head with a brick thrown by a black youth as Robertson cycled home from his job.[47][55]
It's unclear what relevance that has to the church bombing. There were undoubtedly numerous people hospitalized at the time of the funerals. What does this one have to do with the story? Emmieleigh ( talk) 01:38, 14 December 2017 (UTC)
"At the time of the funerals, two of those critically injured in the bombing were still hospitalized, as was a 16-year-old white teenager named Dennis Robertson, who had been hit on the head with a brick thrown by a black youth as Robertson cycled home from his job" - I can understand why two people are mentioned due to their relation to the bombing (even if there are no names, and it doesn't really seem to belong in the FUNERAL section), but why is another person who wasn't injured in the bombing mentioned here? Seems very whataboutism to me, and an attempt to derail the article. 69.145.67.34 ( talk) 17:22, 18 July 2018 (UTC)
I check pages listed in Category:Pages with incorrect ref formatting to try to fix reference errors. One of the things I do is look for content for orphaned references in wikilinked articles. I have found content for some of 16th Street Baptist Church bombing's orphans, the problem is that I found more than one version. I can't determine which (if any) is correct for this article, so I am asking for a sentient editor to look it over and copy the correct ref content into this article.
Reference named "FBI":
I apologize if any of the above are effectively identical; I am just a simple computer program, so I can't determine whether minor differences are significant or not. AnomieBOT ⚡ 08:00, 1 December 2019 (UTC)
This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 2 September 2022 and 21 December 2022. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): MThomas45512 ( article contribs). Peer reviewers: Ashemmasmith, KevinT99, Thealexjr100, Helyeah27, Vsaciolo, Jessmanners, Whole.lotta.vibez.
— Assignment last updated by Whole.lotta.vibez ( talk) 00:33, 30 November 2022 (UTC)
In the non-fiction books section there's an entry for "The Past on Trial: The Sixteenth Street Baptist Church Bombing, Civil Rights Memory, and the Remaking of Birmingham." After a lot of googling, I discovered that the ISBN leads nowhere, and that the title refers to a dissertation.
To cut down on confusion, maybe this entry could be rewritten or moved to make it a little more clear that it isn't a book. I'm not sure of the protocol for that. Oliananyx ( talk) 03:40, 26 February 2023 (UTC)
This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 28 August 2023 and 11 December 2023. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Folkloree, Smartcookie713, Barterworthy, SparklyDuck ( article contribs). Peer reviewers: FishLoaf, Hippie2012, Terrapin2022, Greenturtle57, Chesemucher.
— Assignment last updated by Worm Insurrection ( talk) 21:16, 24 November 2023 (UTC)
~~~~Just wondering, how come this article has a medium importance on the Civil Rights Movement Project? I'm just curious on what I can maybe do to help FridayNightravin ( talk) 21:03, 3 October 2023 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
16th Street Baptist Church bombing article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
A fact from this article was featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the On this day section on September 15, 2004, September 15, 2007, September 15, 2013, September 15, 2014, September 15, 2015, September 15, 2016, September 15, 2017, and September 15, 2020. |
This
level-5 vital article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
4 girls died in the bombing. It was a horrible tragedy.
On 1963-11-18 John Coltrane recorded "Alabama," a composition made in response to the bombing.
Given that double jeopardy assures you can't be tried for a crime of which you've already been acquitted, how did they manage to convict Chambliss of the murders in 1977 when he had already been acquitted? Angr/ talk 16:33, 16 February 2006 (UTC)
I don't know if this is the case, but it would not be double jeopardy if one set of charges was in State court, and the other in Federal court. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2602:30A:C08C:A6F0:219:E3FF:FE04:C392 ( talk) 14:45, 16 February 2013 (UTC)
why do the names of each the four girls need a link if the link redirects to the same page you link from? Im taking the links out. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Tyler Thibeaux ( talk • contribs).
Did the kkk release any sort of statement after the attacks or did they just lay low and try to stay away from the aftermath of the incident? Dermo69
66.118.236.226 15:38, 15 February 2007 (UTC)
We really need some footnoting here WP:CITE. Some of these comments, although quite believable really need to be sourced through a note. The Bull Conner quotes especially. JodyB 16:40, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
This section has grown into a WP:TRIVIA section, which doesn't really add anything to the article. Some of the works mentioned, such as Joan Baez' and John Coltrane's pieces could be considered more important than others, like the mention in a Drive-By Truckers' song. But still, per the suggestion of the guideline on trivia sections, I'd like to move the important ones into the article text and drop the others. Not sure when I'll get to it, so here's a chance to chime in before I get too bold. -- Dystopos 22:11, 9 May 2007 (UTC)
I made an infobox out of information in the text. - Flubeca Talk 16:29, 15 September 2007 (UTC)
Hate
This just proves that hate can eat people away until they are stupid and cluelessly cruel. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Dilan linh ( talk • contribs) 22:50, 7 January 2008 (UTC)
I did a project on these girls. One of these girls(denise) is my age. I can't imagine the pain and greif these parents went through. These girls died because of their skin color. That is not a good reason for someone to kill another being. Especially children. They were just begining to become younge ladies. These girls had bright futures ahead of them.can you imagine what they would be doing to do if they didn't die? I just can't get over this tragedy. Especialy because im related to one of the girls(denise). I wish I could have had the chance to meet her........... —Preceding unsigned comment added by MzELMO ( talk • contribs) 16:27, 10 July 2008 (UTC)
"More than 8,000 mourners, including 3 clergymen of all races, attended the service. No city officials attended."
Only 3 of the more than 8,000 mourners were clergy? Hmmm... something about that sentence doesn't sound right. I was going to check, but the reference just leads to a website listing a bunch of other websites. Can someone checks this out and perhaps find a direct source? Thanks. Tad Lincoln ( talk) 03:25, 5 February 2009 (UTC)
The link to "Naverly Church Bombing" should be taken out, what does a bombing of a church in sri lanka have to do with the African American civil rights movement? should we just include every article about a church bombing in the "see also" section as well, and heck why not every attack on a mosque or synagogue or hindu temple? 99.231.211.103 ( talk) 05:35, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
Was his name ever in the article along with Cagle? They were arrested in connection to the bombing. One was a paid informant who got involved with the crime. One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest had a recreated news report in it about Hall's arrest and I was trying to verify the dates and details. I found this:
Alatari ( talk) 13:54, 26 April 2010 (UTC)
looking through previous revisions reveals this article is a target for vandals. i restored the lead paragraph from a previous revision, but it seems the list of victims has been removed. does anyone know if there is a reason for this? imo, the section should be restored, along with the "findagrave" templates (
[1]).
Badmachine (
talk) 07:48, 2 August 2010 (UTC)
This article says Chambliss was found not guilty of murder for the bombing in 1968. Then he was re-tried for the same crime in 1977 (which raises questions of double jeopardy). In contrast, the page for Robert Edward Chambliss says that there was no trial in 68 (which would resolve the question). - Keith D. Tyler ¶ 19:10, 27 November 2012 (UTC)
The girls' ages were not correct and I updated them with a source. Another user then reverted my good faith edit because they feel that "history is better than reporting." That's nonsensical. Their ages and real histories matter. Documentation of the facts of the past comprises history. So does contesting them, but with other documentation--and in this case, I have never seen any suggestion that their reported birth years were wrong. 2602:306:3774:E8C0:F971:F876:BD5C:B128 ( talk) 06:44, 25 June 2014 (UTC)js
Great work lately on the article. One historical item missing concerns the fact that both James Bevel and Diane Nash said that this bombing, and the deaths of the four teens, moved them to create what became known as the Alabama Project for Voting Rights, which they then worked on (along with James Orange and others) from the day of the bombing to the final steps of the Selma to Montgomery march. Bevel said that when he heard of the bombing at the church in which he had organized, trained, and led the students in their Birmingham Children's Crusade, that he at first wanted to kill the murderers. He then took that same energy and turned it into a solution - an extended plan for voting rights for all of-age citizens so that elected officials would be responsive and responsible to and for all of their constituents. Along this timeline Bevel eventually headed up SCLC's Selma Voting Rights Movement and initiated and directed the Selma to Montgomery marches, legacies of the death and destruction involved in the murderous actions at the 16th Street Baptist Church. Randy Kryn 12:20 14 March, 2015 (UTC)
Page 104 of this online source states "as such many of these attacks are rightfully considered acts of terrorism".-- Kieronoldham ( talk) 23:42, 4 July 2015 (UTC)
First, I was supposed to check my talk page. Now this one. What's the point of all this, User:Kieronoldham? InedibleHulk (talk) 03:44, 6 July 2015 (UTC)
A report in of that nature is a compilation of findings. It is a statement of what professional individuals say are their findings. As for structure, to take one example only: Cochran said many things throughout the trial: in his profession, he states/says many things in his closing argument to the jury. In the sentence in question, there are many things outlined which he said to the jury, before he "also added" the info. in question in that closing argument.
To me, those words would be stated, given context, rather than "said".
I'm not being pedantic, and certainly hope nobody accuses me of WP:OWN. My concern - in addition to the above - emanates from the fact that you seem to be working on several articles of this nature at once and as such may not devote as much time to articles.-- Kieronoldham ( talk) 03:58, 6 July 2015 (UTC)
Indeed, "stated that" is more wordier than "said", but it is the context of the speech in which the words are spoken (before a court of law in an argument, for example) which affirms whether what an individual has said is what he/she is offering as a statement to be assessed/scrutinized etc. The report in 1965 is a statement of findings compiled (and for analysis and scrutiny). Personally, that is an example of what I feel should remain as "stated" as opposed to "said", too, as are Cantrell's words re: Chambliss, and Cobbs stating, under oath in a court of law, what Chambliss had confided to her. What an individual says in daily life situations without fear of those words being analyzed, on a casual basis, is what is "said". What he/she speaks to an official, a jury, or what in context is analyzed (the voice recordings contested and counter-contested by opposing, arguing counsels at the trial) is would better read as being a statement i.e. Blanton never "stated" he had planned the bomb. Personally I stand firm on this one. If MalikShabazz or any other editor with this page on his/her watchlist agrees with you on this issue rather than me then, as stated, that is fine as consensus governs.
Wallace's words need to be taken into context rather than expanded upon. I would have thought the example sentence keeps things to a minimum, avoiding unnecessary, extensive detail, while ensuring things were in context? Addie "had observed" the four victims maybe is a little too in depth, although she was the last person to see four historically significant individuals alive. Maybe "saw" or, better yet, "had seen", would suffice with this one? Can't fathom arguments emanating there.
As for Cross's statement of recollection, the text immediately alternates between the tragic events of the day to a survivor's recollections almost 40 years later (that is where the "chronological" statement emanated from). To me, the choice of words perfectly clarifies that he recollected ("would recollect") them before a court of law, much later, when justice was finally served. The structure of the article as a whole steers the reader through these events and how social attitudes of the era eroded and equal rights finally allowed Cross, in a different era, to finally state his recollections before the courts almost 40 years later. It reads perfectly to me, given context.
Regards, and I apologize if I sounded abrasive yesterday.-- Kieronoldham ( talk) 00:59, 7 July 2015 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on 16th Street Baptist Church bombing. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
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Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 19:15, 10 August 2016 (UTC)
This sentence appears under the "funeral"section: At the time of the funerals, two of those critically injured in the bombing were still hospitalized, as was a 16-year-old white teenager named Dennis Robertson, who had been hit on the head with a brick thrown by a black youth as Robertson cycled home from his job.[47][55]
It's unclear what relevance that has to the church bombing. There were undoubtedly numerous people hospitalized at the time of the funerals. What does this one have to do with the story? Emmieleigh ( talk) 01:38, 14 December 2017 (UTC)
"At the time of the funerals, two of those critically injured in the bombing were still hospitalized, as was a 16-year-old white teenager named Dennis Robertson, who had been hit on the head with a brick thrown by a black youth as Robertson cycled home from his job" - I can understand why two people are mentioned due to their relation to the bombing (even if there are no names, and it doesn't really seem to belong in the FUNERAL section), but why is another person who wasn't injured in the bombing mentioned here? Seems very whataboutism to me, and an attempt to derail the article. 69.145.67.34 ( talk) 17:22, 18 July 2018 (UTC)
I check pages listed in Category:Pages with incorrect ref formatting to try to fix reference errors. One of the things I do is look for content for orphaned references in wikilinked articles. I have found content for some of 16th Street Baptist Church bombing's orphans, the problem is that I found more than one version. I can't determine which (if any) is correct for this article, so I am asking for a sentient editor to look it over and copy the correct ref content into this article.
Reference named "FBI":
I apologize if any of the above are effectively identical; I am just a simple computer program, so I can't determine whether minor differences are significant or not. AnomieBOT ⚡ 08:00, 1 December 2019 (UTC)
This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 2 September 2022 and 21 December 2022. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): MThomas45512 ( article contribs). Peer reviewers: Ashemmasmith, KevinT99, Thealexjr100, Helyeah27, Vsaciolo, Jessmanners, Whole.lotta.vibez.
— Assignment last updated by Whole.lotta.vibez ( talk) 00:33, 30 November 2022 (UTC)
In the non-fiction books section there's an entry for "The Past on Trial: The Sixteenth Street Baptist Church Bombing, Civil Rights Memory, and the Remaking of Birmingham." After a lot of googling, I discovered that the ISBN leads nowhere, and that the title refers to a dissertation.
To cut down on confusion, maybe this entry could be rewritten or moved to make it a little more clear that it isn't a book. I'm not sure of the protocol for that. Oliananyx ( talk) 03:40, 26 February 2023 (UTC)
This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 28 August 2023 and 11 December 2023. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Folkloree, Smartcookie713, Barterworthy, SparklyDuck ( article contribs). Peer reviewers: FishLoaf, Hippie2012, Terrapin2022, Greenturtle57, Chesemucher.
— Assignment last updated by Worm Insurrection ( talk) 21:16, 24 November 2023 (UTC)
~~~~Just wondering, how come this article has a medium importance on the Civil Rights Movement Project? I'm just curious on what I can maybe do to help FridayNightravin ( talk) 21:03, 3 October 2023 (UTC)