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The comment(s) below were originally left at Talk:...And Then There Were Three.../Comments, and are posted here for posterity. Following several discussions in past years, these subpages are now deprecated. The comments may be irrelevant or outdated; if so, please feel free to remove this section.
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Alright, Since someone doesn't feel that this album is a progressive rock album, and deletes all edits to show that it is, citing them as "unsourced and undiscussed" even though I've not seen any discussion or sources he's used to support his edits that say it isn't one, lets discuss it now. I want to know what qualities this album lacks that prevent it from being a Progressive Rock album, or what qualities it does have that disqualify it from such a genre classification.
Is it it's lack of longer songs? that can't be it, because then why is Yes's Tormato album considered Prog when it only has songs ranging from 2 to 7 minutes, or Kansas albums such as Point of Know Return, or Monolith, or even Audio-Visions which none of those albums have songs that pass 7 minutes and 20 seconds. or Gentle Giant's Octopus album, without one of the shortest prog albums, clocking in at just under 35 minutes long with songs that range between 3 and 6 minutes.
so what else could it be? Could it be the albums fair share of pop songs (and I use that term loosely, I consider them more rock than pop) and to be fair it does have a couple, "Follow You Follow Me", "Many too Many" come to mind. and I would never argue that its a purely progressive rock album. Its definitely not. But you give me "Follow You Follow Me" as a reason why ATTWT is a pop album, and I'll point to songs like "Down And Out" which, while the song does have some more commercial pop tendencies, it also has an odd time signature that is very much qualifies it as a prog song in my eyes anyway, and if you disagree, I recommend you hear the song again. On top of that, I'll also point to the song Ballad of Big, while its not my favorite song on the album, Its still definitely rooted in the Prog genre, the differences between the verse melody and the chorus, its absolutely a prog song. And there's plenty of other examples of prog on this album, " Burning Rope", " Deep in The Motherlode", " The Lady Lies", and even " Say Its Alright, Joe". They're all very much prog songs, albeit more on the poppy side of Progressive rock, but still very much on the more progressive side.
And if the reason that the album isn't classified as a progressive album is because of its more pop leanings, then why is Duke, an album that is arguably even more of a pop rock album than this one still classified as Progressive rock? (which I agree with, Duke is definitely still a progressive rock album, but that's not the point) Also, I can point out bands like Asia who are very much Pop rock/hard rock in style, but still considered progressive rock, and their music is a lot more pop driven than this album. Also Styx albums like Paradise Theater, and Kilroy Was Here. While I once again agree with them being considered Progressive rock, Much of their music is rooted in more of a pop rock sound, again, even more so than this album.
I could go on and on, but I'm going to stop there for now, and ask the question that I posed in the beginning of this post again. What about this album disqualifies it from being considered Progressive Rock?
Sovphil13 ( talk) 01:34, 21 April 2017 (UTC)
This article has seen a long string of editors trying to classify the album as progressive rock, but without sources. In the last four months, the genre warring has this history:
None of these editors cited a source for prog rock, which means the existing citations are not contradicted – the ones that say the album showed Genesis moving away from prog rock and toward pop rock. Binksternet ( talk) 17:13, 15 April 2020 (UTC)
Upon reviewing the given citation and reading page 150 (and surrounding pages) of Bowler & Dray's biography of Genesis, there is no mention of the term "pop rock," or even a reference to the album as such. There are two references to "pop," both of which I will clarify. The first is a reference to "Follow You Follow Me" as a "lovely little pop song." However, as SummerPhD has previously clarified, we are not discussing the genre of a single song, we are discussing the genre of an album, and so such a citation would be insufficient for our purposes. The second reference is a quote from Tony Banks, which describes "most of the Genesis catalog" as "Pop music done with more subtlety," which is not specific to the album in question.
Unless a reliable source can be found for the "Pop rock" tag, the genre should be removed for failing to meet our standards. Denimspoon ( talk) 15:44, 30 May 2020 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
...And Then There Were Three... article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
This article is rated B-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||
|
...And Then There Were Three... was a Music good articles nominee, but did not meet the good article criteria at the time. There may be suggestions below for improving the article. Once these issues have been addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake. | ||||||||||
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During several automated bot runs the following external link was found to be unavailable. Please check if the link is in fact down and fix or remove it in that case!
-- JeffGBot ( talk) 22:20, 20 May 2011 (UTC)
During several automated bot runs the following external link was found to be unavailable. Please check if the link is in fact down and fix or remove it in that case!
-- JeffGBot ( talk) 22:21, 20 May 2011 (UTC)
During several automated bot runs the following external link was found to be unavailable. Please check if the link is in fact down and fix or remove it in that case!
-- JeffGBot ( talk) 22:21, 20 May 2011 (UTC)
During several automated bot runs the following external link was found to be unavailable. Please check if the link is in fact down and fix or remove it in that case!
-- JeffGBot ( talk) 04:32, 31 May 2011 (UTC)
During several automated bot runs the following external link was found to be unavailable. Please check if the link is in fact down and fix or remove it in that case!
-- JeffGBot ( talk) 04:32, 31 May 2011 (UTC)
The comment(s) below were originally left at Talk:...And Then There Were Three.../Comments, and are posted here for posterity. Following several discussions in past years, these subpages are now deprecated. The comments may be irrelevant or outdated; if so, please feel free to remove this section.
Article requirements: All the start class criteria |
Substituted at 21:29, 26 June 2016 (UTC)
Alright, Since someone doesn't feel that this album is a progressive rock album, and deletes all edits to show that it is, citing them as "unsourced and undiscussed" even though I've not seen any discussion or sources he's used to support his edits that say it isn't one, lets discuss it now. I want to know what qualities this album lacks that prevent it from being a Progressive Rock album, or what qualities it does have that disqualify it from such a genre classification.
Is it it's lack of longer songs? that can't be it, because then why is Yes's Tormato album considered Prog when it only has songs ranging from 2 to 7 minutes, or Kansas albums such as Point of Know Return, or Monolith, or even Audio-Visions which none of those albums have songs that pass 7 minutes and 20 seconds. or Gentle Giant's Octopus album, without one of the shortest prog albums, clocking in at just under 35 minutes long with songs that range between 3 and 6 minutes.
so what else could it be? Could it be the albums fair share of pop songs (and I use that term loosely, I consider them more rock than pop) and to be fair it does have a couple, "Follow You Follow Me", "Many too Many" come to mind. and I would never argue that its a purely progressive rock album. Its definitely not. But you give me "Follow You Follow Me" as a reason why ATTWT is a pop album, and I'll point to songs like "Down And Out" which, while the song does have some more commercial pop tendencies, it also has an odd time signature that is very much qualifies it as a prog song in my eyes anyway, and if you disagree, I recommend you hear the song again. On top of that, I'll also point to the song Ballad of Big, while its not my favorite song on the album, Its still definitely rooted in the Prog genre, the differences between the verse melody and the chorus, its absolutely a prog song. And there's plenty of other examples of prog on this album, " Burning Rope", " Deep in The Motherlode", " The Lady Lies", and even " Say Its Alright, Joe". They're all very much prog songs, albeit more on the poppy side of Progressive rock, but still very much on the more progressive side.
And if the reason that the album isn't classified as a progressive album is because of its more pop leanings, then why is Duke, an album that is arguably even more of a pop rock album than this one still classified as Progressive rock? (which I agree with, Duke is definitely still a progressive rock album, but that's not the point) Also, I can point out bands like Asia who are very much Pop rock/hard rock in style, but still considered progressive rock, and their music is a lot more pop driven than this album. Also Styx albums like Paradise Theater, and Kilroy Was Here. While I once again agree with them being considered Progressive rock, Much of their music is rooted in more of a pop rock sound, again, even more so than this album.
I could go on and on, but I'm going to stop there for now, and ask the question that I posed in the beginning of this post again. What about this album disqualifies it from being considered Progressive Rock?
Sovphil13 ( talk) 01:34, 21 April 2017 (UTC)
This article has seen a long string of editors trying to classify the album as progressive rock, but without sources. In the last four months, the genre warring has this history:
None of these editors cited a source for prog rock, which means the existing citations are not contradicted – the ones that say the album showed Genesis moving away from prog rock and toward pop rock. Binksternet ( talk) 17:13, 15 April 2020 (UTC)
Upon reviewing the given citation and reading page 150 (and surrounding pages) of Bowler & Dray's biography of Genesis, there is no mention of the term "pop rock," or even a reference to the album as such. There are two references to "pop," both of which I will clarify. The first is a reference to "Follow You Follow Me" as a "lovely little pop song." However, as SummerPhD has previously clarified, we are not discussing the genre of a single song, we are discussing the genre of an album, and so such a citation would be insufficient for our purposes. The second reference is a quote from Tony Banks, which describes "most of the Genesis catalog" as "Pop music done with more subtlety," which is not specific to the album in question.
Unless a reliable source can be found for the "Pop rock" tag, the genre should be removed for failing to meet our standards. Denimspoon ( talk) 15:44, 30 May 2020 (UTC)