Zuo Zhuan has been listed as one of the
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On 28 June 2021, it was proposed that this article be moved from Zuo zhuan to Zuo Zhuan. The result of the discussion was moved. |
This article was automatically assessed because at least one WikiProject had rated the article as stub, and the rating on other projects was brought up to Stub class. BetacommandBot 13:57, 9 November 2007 (UTC)
Can anyone tell me about the textual history of the Zuozhuan. What is the earliest xylograph, what are the extant manuscripts, which is the earliest, etc. etc. I would love to see some of this information incorporated into the article. Tibetologist ( talk) 13:08, 12 January 2010 (UTC)
It's not clear what a duke is in this context. Wakablogger2 ( talk) 20:09, 2 June 2010 (UTC)
This is a tricky one since, based on your comment, a trailer something like "one of the five orders of nobility in ancient China" should be added to every Duke of this period and there are an awful lot of them. My view is that people reading up in this area well soon become familiar with the titles used and we should leave things as they stand. Philg88 ( talk) 21:29, 2 June 2010 (UTC)
The presented bilingual text (as well as any other Legge translation appearing here) is actually Legge's translation to the chun qiu, not the zuo zhuan. The details from the zuo zhuan are only included in Legge's commentary together with details from other sources, his own conculsions and his own research notes. There are indeed places where he gives a full translation of the zuo zhuan's passeges, but it seems that he mostly gives the reader a digested version of what is written, and not a direct translation. The duke ( talk) 10:22, 8 July 2014 (UTC)
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Reviewing |
Reviewer: Khanate General ( talk · contribs) 16:50, 25 March 2016 (UTC)
official [and] restrained" and "
tangled affections" could be rewritten in your own words.
Unlike the Histories of Herodotus or the History of the Peloponnesian War of Thucydides—with which it is roughly contemporary—the Zuo zhuan's narration always remains in the third person perspective, and presents as a dispassionate recorder of facts.(article)
The historian-narrator in Tso chuan is largely absent. In contrast to the roughly contemporary Greek historians Herodotus and Thucydides, who repeatedly enter their histories as a first-person “I” to explain the meaning of prose events or to comment upon the validity of variant accounts, the narrator of Tso chuan presents events in an ostensibly objective fashion that puts the narrative beyond question or qualification.(source)
Several of the most notable passages in the Zuo zhuan describe succession crises, which seem to have been fairly common in China during the Spring and Autumn period(article)
Another topic that recurs in several of the most famous sections of Tso chuan is that of the succession crisis. Such crises, which seem to have been frequent in Spring and Autumn China, usually involved the tangled affections of political leaders.(source)
User:Khanate General became unresponsive and inactive on Wikipedia, so this review was closed and the article re-listed on the nominations page. White Whirlwind 咨 18:38, 2 May 2016 (UTC)
GA toolbox |
---|
Reviewing |
Reviewer: Sainsf ( talk · contribs) 02:10, 22 June 2016 (UTC)
Will review. Sainsf ( talk · contribs) 02:10, 22 June 2016 (UTC)
No copyvio/dablinks/external links issues detected. Issues raised in the previous review have been addressed. Sainsf ( talk · contribs) 13:05, 22 June 2016 (UTC)
@ White whirlwind: Please respond. Sainsf ( talk · contribs) 05:09, 26 June 2016 (UTC)
Thank you, this can now be promoted. Cheers, Sainsf ( talk · contribs) 02:14, 27 June 2016 (UTC)
Any discussion of Zuo zhuan has to take into account these three recent books:
SCHABERG, David. A Patterned Past: Form and Thought in Early Chinese Historiography. Harvard East Asian Monographs 205. Cambridge, Mass., and London, 2001.
PINES, Yuri. Foundations of Confucian Thought: Intellectual Life in the Chunqiu Period, 722-453 B.C.E. Honolulu: University of Hawaii Press, 2002.
LI, Wai-yee. The Readability of the Past in Early Chinese Historiography. Harvard East Asian Monographs 253. Cambridge, Mass., 2007.-- 74.103.157.38 ( talk) 00:45, 19 September 2016 (UTC)
Even if we were adopting Chinglish orthography for English-language articles (which we shouldn't since actual pinyin guidebooks capitalize each word of titles and it jars so much with standard MOS capitalization rules that it will create constant makework removing "corrections"), the proper Chinese formatting for this name would be Zuozhuan as a single word. It needs to be restored there or back to its proper English capitalization as Zuo Zhuan, in place of the current mistake. — LlywelynII 23:07, 15 April 2017 (UTC)
Hm.. or just to the English name Commentary of Zuo. This isn't a much-discussed volume in English but that seems to be the common English name by a wide margin on cursory googling. — LlywelynII 23:12, 15 April 2017 (UTC)
Making this section so LlywelynII ( talk · contribs) can describe the changes he wishes to make. It sounds like they might involve significant changes and/or additions to the current section on leads at MOS:CHINA, so maybe it would be better raised over there. White Whirlwind 咨 17:37, 6 December 2017 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: moved. ( closed by non-admin page mover) Vpab15 ( talk) 20:11, 11 August 2021 (UTC)
Zuo zhuan → Zuo Zhuan – Correct capitalisation, per Wikipedia guidelines ( Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Titles) of capitalising every word in a title (a book title in this case), and consistent with Gongyang Zhuan and Guliang Zhuan; all three are Confucian commentaries on the Spring and Autumn Annals which are usually grouped together, hence the relevance of the other two articles. Zuo Zhuan should be the main article and Zuo zhuan should redirect to it, not the other way around as is presently the situation. Scyrme ( talk) 20:27, 28 June 2021 (UTC) —Relisting. Colonestarrice ( talk) 12:05, 30 July 2021 (UTC)
Zuo Zhuan has been listed as one of the
Language and literature good articles under the
good article criteria. If you can improve it further,
please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can
reassess it. Review: June 27, 2016. ( Reviewed version). |
This article is rated GA-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Zuo Zhuan article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
Archives: 1 |
On 28 June 2021, it was proposed that this article be moved from Zuo zhuan to Zuo Zhuan. The result of the discussion was moved. |
This article was automatically assessed because at least one WikiProject had rated the article as stub, and the rating on other projects was brought up to Stub class. BetacommandBot 13:57, 9 November 2007 (UTC)
Can anyone tell me about the textual history of the Zuozhuan. What is the earliest xylograph, what are the extant manuscripts, which is the earliest, etc. etc. I would love to see some of this information incorporated into the article. Tibetologist ( talk) 13:08, 12 January 2010 (UTC)
It's not clear what a duke is in this context. Wakablogger2 ( talk) 20:09, 2 June 2010 (UTC)
This is a tricky one since, based on your comment, a trailer something like "one of the five orders of nobility in ancient China" should be added to every Duke of this period and there are an awful lot of them. My view is that people reading up in this area well soon become familiar with the titles used and we should leave things as they stand. Philg88 ( talk) 21:29, 2 June 2010 (UTC)
The presented bilingual text (as well as any other Legge translation appearing here) is actually Legge's translation to the chun qiu, not the zuo zhuan. The details from the zuo zhuan are only included in Legge's commentary together with details from other sources, his own conculsions and his own research notes. There are indeed places where he gives a full translation of the zuo zhuan's passeges, but it seems that he mostly gives the reader a digested version of what is written, and not a direct translation. The duke ( talk) 10:22, 8 July 2014 (UTC)
GA toolbox |
---|
Reviewing |
Reviewer: Khanate General ( talk · contribs) 16:50, 25 March 2016 (UTC)
official [and] restrained" and "
tangled affections" could be rewritten in your own words.
Unlike the Histories of Herodotus or the History of the Peloponnesian War of Thucydides—with which it is roughly contemporary—the Zuo zhuan's narration always remains in the third person perspective, and presents as a dispassionate recorder of facts.(article)
The historian-narrator in Tso chuan is largely absent. In contrast to the roughly contemporary Greek historians Herodotus and Thucydides, who repeatedly enter their histories as a first-person “I” to explain the meaning of prose events or to comment upon the validity of variant accounts, the narrator of Tso chuan presents events in an ostensibly objective fashion that puts the narrative beyond question or qualification.(source)
Several of the most notable passages in the Zuo zhuan describe succession crises, which seem to have been fairly common in China during the Spring and Autumn period(article)
Another topic that recurs in several of the most famous sections of Tso chuan is that of the succession crisis. Such crises, which seem to have been frequent in Spring and Autumn China, usually involved the tangled affections of political leaders.(source)
User:Khanate General became unresponsive and inactive on Wikipedia, so this review was closed and the article re-listed on the nominations page. White Whirlwind 咨 18:38, 2 May 2016 (UTC)
GA toolbox |
---|
Reviewing |
Reviewer: Sainsf ( talk · contribs) 02:10, 22 June 2016 (UTC)
Will review. Sainsf ( talk · contribs) 02:10, 22 June 2016 (UTC)
No copyvio/dablinks/external links issues detected. Issues raised in the previous review have been addressed. Sainsf ( talk · contribs) 13:05, 22 June 2016 (UTC)
@ White whirlwind: Please respond. Sainsf ( talk · contribs) 05:09, 26 June 2016 (UTC)
Thank you, this can now be promoted. Cheers, Sainsf ( talk · contribs) 02:14, 27 June 2016 (UTC)
Any discussion of Zuo zhuan has to take into account these three recent books:
SCHABERG, David. A Patterned Past: Form and Thought in Early Chinese Historiography. Harvard East Asian Monographs 205. Cambridge, Mass., and London, 2001.
PINES, Yuri. Foundations of Confucian Thought: Intellectual Life in the Chunqiu Period, 722-453 B.C.E. Honolulu: University of Hawaii Press, 2002.
LI, Wai-yee. The Readability of the Past in Early Chinese Historiography. Harvard East Asian Monographs 253. Cambridge, Mass., 2007.-- 74.103.157.38 ( talk) 00:45, 19 September 2016 (UTC)
Even if we were adopting Chinglish orthography for English-language articles (which we shouldn't since actual pinyin guidebooks capitalize each word of titles and it jars so much with standard MOS capitalization rules that it will create constant makework removing "corrections"), the proper Chinese formatting for this name would be Zuozhuan as a single word. It needs to be restored there or back to its proper English capitalization as Zuo Zhuan, in place of the current mistake. — LlywelynII 23:07, 15 April 2017 (UTC)
Hm.. or just to the English name Commentary of Zuo. This isn't a much-discussed volume in English but that seems to be the common English name by a wide margin on cursory googling. — LlywelynII 23:12, 15 April 2017 (UTC)
Making this section so LlywelynII ( talk · contribs) can describe the changes he wishes to make. It sounds like they might involve significant changes and/or additions to the current section on leads at MOS:CHINA, so maybe it would be better raised over there. White Whirlwind 咨 17:37, 6 December 2017 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: moved. ( closed by non-admin page mover) Vpab15 ( talk) 20:11, 11 August 2021 (UTC)
Zuo zhuan → Zuo Zhuan – Correct capitalisation, per Wikipedia guidelines ( Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Titles) of capitalising every word in a title (a book title in this case), and consistent with Gongyang Zhuan and Guliang Zhuan; all three are Confucian commentaries on the Spring and Autumn Annals which are usually grouped together, hence the relevance of the other two articles. Zuo Zhuan should be the main article and Zuo zhuan should redirect to it, not the other way around as is presently the situation. Scyrme ( talk) 20:27, 28 June 2021 (UTC) —Relisting. Colonestarrice ( talk) 12:05, 30 July 2021 (UTC)