![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 20 | ← | Archive 22 | Archive 23 | Archive 24 | Archive 25 | Archive 26 | Archive 27 |
I posted a merge notice a few weeks ago. Received no opposition nor support so as suggested assumed consensus and went ahead with the merge. See reasoning here: Talk:Zoosexuality#Merge_with_Zoophilia_attempt_2. Help channel suggested I change the zoosexuality article into a redirect though I'm unsure what I'll do with the talk pages, will sort that out soon.
As for the integration... the terminology aspect was mostly integrated here. "Professional views of zoosexuality as a sexual orientation" is largely covered here with the word 'zoosexual' replaced with 'zoophilia'. The "Further discussion Forms of zoosexual activity" didn't seem to be needed to be integrated as it discussed it throughout the article in parts. "Miscellaneous comparisons with other orientations" was trivial and most content was quote. "Emotion in zoosexuality" covered already in zoophilia and Emotion in animals. "Intersubjective emotion" again mostly quote and only like one line.
So, mostly integrated in my opinion. Avalik ( talk) 02:27, 15 November 2009 (UTC)
Adds: Ah, I forgot. I'll be removing "Zoosexual" links and such tomorrow, not today just in case it gets reverted and disputed which would have me change everything back. Avalik ( talk) 02:29, 15 November 2009 (UTC)
Re: Well, that's not what 'zoophilia' actually is, during my times of sexological studies, we've treat 'zoophilia' as the romantic, sometimes even 'sexual' paraphilia that a Human can have, which attracts them to another species (usually specific). Also, 'zoophilia' is conceptual, it doesn't really exist as a singleton matter, it is a category of sexual attraction towards certain animal species, i.e. a dog lover is not a cow lover.
I understand that the DSM has caused some confusion in the last few years for doctors. This is why Hani Miletski promoted the term 'zoosexuality'. As 'zoo' (animal) + 'philia' (love) does not mean 'zoo' (animal) + 'sexuality' (sexualitas, sexual attraction). Of course, that matter is biologically disputed, besides.
Not all zoophiles are zoosexuals, and not all zoosexuals are zoophiles. The most common kind of zoophile is the standard pet lover.
Wouldn't it be better to rename this whole article as 'Zoosexuality'? Or would it be right to call love, sexuality?
Bestiality is the interspecific sexual activity between a Human and an individual of another species. Colloquially, I have seen 'zoophiles' like to be called 'zoophiles', and call any zoosexual that is not a zoophile, a 'bestialist'. The word 'bestialist' isn't exactly a real term, it is a neological adaption of accusative verbal noun 'bestiality'.
Secondary usage of 'zoophile' is 'erotic zoophilism', 'zoosexuality'. I think it is very accusative to use the secondary meaning of 'zoophile' on such an official information website like Wikipedia, for the article.
Zoophilia is usually platonic, zoosexuality may or may not feature zoophilia, and vice versa.
I hope this helps. J D Smith ( talk) 22:44, 25 November 2009 (UTC)
I dispute the neutrality of this merge. Zoosexuality was said to be the popular terminology for 'sexual zoophilia' in the last decade to avoid the confusion of the 'affinity for animals' from the 'sexual attraction towards animals', the term derived from Dr Miletski's work as cited in the article. The zoophilia article should have remained seperate from the zoosexual one.
The first line is: "Zoophilia, from the Greek ζῷον (zṓion, "animal") and φιλία (philia, "friendship" or "love") is the practice of sex between humans and animals (bestiality), or a preference or fixation on such practice. A person who practices zoophilia is known as a zoophile" - However, zoophilia is directly the sexual attraction and/or affinity towards animals. Zoosexuality being 'sexual zoophilia', referred to 'sexual zoophilia', whereas 'zoophilia' itself may or may not involve sexual relation. Also, the term, 'zoophilia' does not refer to the 'sexual activity', 'bestiality' does - this is no doubt an archaic terminology no longer used. Neutrality is thus disputed. The articles should have never merged since the terms refer to two different things, even if the categories do align somewhere.
There are two definitions for zoophilia, these also even exist on Wikipedia's side-project, Wiktionary, "1. An affinity or fondness for animals. 2. A paraphilia involving sexual attraction to animals." What valid reference states that 'zoophilia' (affinity / sexual attraction) is 'zoosexuality' (sexual orientation/identification) or 'bestiality' (sexual interaction)?
I have reasons to believe 'zoophilia' references human-animal love, not the sexuality, however, the document should also refer to the sexuality, since culturally, love is often relative to sexuality (passion). Either the article should be changed so 'zoophilia' refers to the 'affinity and/or sexual attraction', and 'bestiality' refers to the 'sexual activity', etc or seperated into the seperate articles (since, after all, this is a very broad field of research). Other terms such as 'zoosexuality', 'zooerasty', 'zoosadism' with their respective sections, etc. Since the article would be large with such a compilation, I recommend the seperation of the articles and citation to more modern research definitions (the article is getting clumsy and old). FireWolf Flux ( talk) 22:08, 3 April 2010 (UTC)
I thought it might be a good idea to add the 'zoophilia in fantasy' section. My friend's favourited new film is called 'Coming Soon', and its a mockumentary, it's commercial and very interesting - since it is so popular and is even going to have its premiere at the world famous 'Living Theatre' museum in New York City, I thought it would be worthy of mention in such a section. I can see that there's a bit of an issue about it on the talk page, so as a friend, I'd thought I'd clarify that. Unless Coming Soon has international success, I don't think it's 100% worthy of an argument, after all it has been in circulation since 2006.
Whatever the decision, just my idea ;). Does anybody know of any other good fictional arts over zoophilia? J D Smith ( talk) 22:28, 25 November 2009 (UTC)
This is an old excerpt of the 'Coming Soon' on Wikipedia... "# Coming Soon (2006, Sir Tijn Po, released by Devilhead Films):: Won a special award for "Originality and Support for Suppressed Minorities" at the Festivalu Finále Plzeň. [27] The film takes the form of a documentary about E.F.A., the world's first zoophile-rights organization,[28] thereby exploring "civilization's eternal quest for the perfect balance between love, tolerance, morality, censorship, tradition, experimentation, etc." The film is currently released in the Czech Republic and an English version is being prepared for international distribution. Official website, imdb entry" - it doesn't look like spam to me and has good references - it just needs cleaning up. [27] http://www.filmfestfinale.cz/cz/ [28] http://www.equalityforall.net/. Since this is a popular film in the zoosexual community, I ask why it was removed. I cannot edit the article as it is locked, per se. J D Smith ( talk) 19:31, 29 November 2009 (UTC)
I heard about the multiple accounts, my friend got banned for being called a sock puppet even though he wasn't one. EFA is a popular offline/online secret organization - so it's likely that it was many members trying to publicise to same issue, respectively. It shouldn't be advertised, it just requires little mention seen as it takes up 10% of Google for the keyword 'zoophilia', enter "zoophilia" in the Google search engine, for what videos/sites are excerpted first? Coming Soon trailers. The EFA webmaster is a female as I have just contacted her, she was apparently nothing to do with it. Judging from the many users there you can see it was simply an article request or one of their members pushing it too far. Living Theatre is hosting the pre-releasing film currently, they haven't hosted a moving picture in a while as they are museum. The website also says so: http://www.livingtheatre.org/ It has been in the major news papers in Czech on second pages. May be the Czech Wikipedia would be more suffice? Only it's an English art with several languages, that's all, so it's hard to make the decision as to where is most appropriate. The film is apparently non-profit, with all proceeds going to fund the EFA project and animal charities - whether that is true or not is another case. But if it is so, the promotion is neutral. I can see a lot more unknown films than this one on Wikipedia, though, which adds to the confusion to them, I suppose, respectively. J D Smith ( talk) 03:53, 10 December 2009 (UTC)
I believe the neutrality here may be disputable, for Coming Soon may have been advertising (despite the fact it was clear that EFA's members and film viewers were adding promotions), but there are many sources on the internet that cite the film. I suggest a removal of the other minor documentaries, since there may be media competence between these documentaries, and the prevention of them being added that of it's media rivals. Neutrality disputed in both directions. FireWolf Flux ( talk) 20:35, 2 April 2010 (UTC)
EFA and Coming Soon is very popular in the zoophile and sexological community, if you Google 'zoophile rights' or 'bestiality rights', you would see them in at least the top ten of the results. Zoophiles and sexologists researching the topic of zoophile rights who may be seeking the docu-mockumentary may like to look at other resources, it's simple that Coming Soon is worth a single line of mention due it's impact on news, (hoax or not). People come to Wikipedia seeking such information. Consider 'EFA' a prototype, it is very much alive and its members are pretty much kicking about, especially online. Of course, activism is controversial on sites like this, which is why it should not mentioned sinced that'd make the information possibly biased. imdb pro also reviews the film. For example on what an example is, you just need to read Wikipedia's article, alone "Mockumentary (also known as a mock documentary) is a genre of film and television in which fictitious events are presented in a non-fiction or documentary format; the term can also refer to an individual work within the genre. Such works are often used to analyze or comment on current events and issues by using a fictitious setting." - 'Coming Soon' depicts the future, the future does not exist yet, thus is fictious. —Preceding unsigned comment added by FireWolf Flux ( talk • contribs) 18:03, 16 April 2010 (UTC)
Coming Soon also went to the historic Living Theatre in New York City, as presented here. Nobody has spammed on Wikipedia, IMDB, Amazon, etc, amongst artists, the film has had a lot of popularity and controversy in Czechoslovakia. I have looked at the sock puppet page and examined that there are only a few users, all of which I know for a fact are different people. May be it is the EFA members that are keen, I understand that those members have been digging a hole in this issue since they tried promoting it, no doubt they are eager due to their fanatic activism in zoophile rights, knowing that Coming Soon would be an easy icon to push. —Preceding unsigned comment added by FireWolf Flux ( talk • contribs) 20:28, 16 April 2010 (UTC)
There seems to be two problems with this article in it's current form, although the latter is dependent on the former.
First, the terms used. As mentioned in the article's own terms section, there has been, more frequently as of lately, a line drawn between zoophilia and bestiality. The former is generally defined as a paraphilia or orientation towards animals, whereas the latter is defined as either simply the act, with no regard to the emotion present, or, on occasion, the act when there is specifically no emotion present. Generally it is the former.
However, the article itself ignores it's own term section and tends to regard the terms as interchangeable, where, those familiar with the terms (as those who are unfamiliar with the terms should be discounted: Misuse of a term does not change it's definition) do draw such a distinction between the two phenomona.
As such, without the distinction being drawn properly, I believe the terms are not properly communicating information in the article. I propose an edit to the article that makes a distinction between the two terms. When speaking of the act itself, the term bestiality would be used. when speaking of the orientation or paraphilia, the term Zoophilia would be used.
Second, with the difference in terms in mind, I believe many of the images are out of place on an article about zoophilia, since they depict what would generally be accepted as nothing more than bestiality, rather than the orientation or paraphilia behind the act.
(Also, please forgive any errors I might have made here. It's my first time doing this) XCTI ( talk) 08:03, 16 April 2010 (UTC)
A television program (can't remember which) mentioned zoophilia as referring to people sexually attracted to people pretending to be animals (wearing dog collars, acting like a dog, etc), as distinct from bestiality. Is there such a distinction in the definition? Or what is the correct alternative term?-- Jeffro77 ( talk) 06:00, 12 December 2009 (UTC)
Under the heading "Criticisms of zoophilia or zoosexual relations" there appears the statement that cross-species sex sometimes occurs in nature, and it's supported by a citation (currently #81) identified as "Mating toads cross the species barrier".
The source describes two "species" of toad mating with each other to produce offspring.
Now I realize that the precise meaning of "species" can be debated, but if this article is about sexual activity, it's about that kind of activity between human beings and animals, i.e. creatures of different taxonomic families or groups who are incapable of reproduction with each other. By definition, that puts the subject beyond the taxonomic group of "species". The reference in question would only be relevant if, for example, it described toads who mated with fish. Of course it does not do that; it doesn't even go far enough to describe toads of genus Spea mating with toads of genus Bufonidae.
This article is concerned with activities between human beings and animals, i.e. between creatures of different taxonomic families or even groups, who are incapable of sexual reproduction with each other. Therefore, a mention of different species who are entirely able to mate and produce viable offspring fails to provide any support or enlightenment to the subject. It's not relevant. I've therefore removed the sentence entirely rather than try to hunt down an example that is more relevant to this article.
JH49S (
talk)
00:45, 18 March 2010 (UTC)
Bestiality usually refers to the cross-species sexual interaction between a human and a non-human animal (as coined, archaically, a 'beast'). 'Zoo' also refers to a non-human animal, so thus a human sexually attracted to non-human animals is a 'zoosexual', however, since both non-human animal parties in a cross-species (without a human party) are already non-human, the term is contradictory. That would mean all non-human animals with cross and non-cross species orientation would be 'zoosexual' - this is perhaps the case, but the terms seem odd to apply. This article should link into the correct section of the 'Animal sexual behaviour' article on the subject of cross-species sexuality where humans are not involved. Shouldn't this content be moved from this article from that one? For Wikipedia encapsulation, shouldn't the article just link to the cross-species sexuality page(s)?
I believe that zoosexuality comes under cross-species sexuality (the difference being a human is explicitly described as being involved), not the other way around. FireWolf Flux ( talk) 22:23, 3 April 2010 (UTC)
It is also spelled beastiality, despite peoples complaints. It's just that it's also, but not as commonly in relation to MODERN beastiality, called "bestiality" because the practice has been around since it was first named in Latin. Ignore those attempting to get out of it, they probably still think calling someone a "bitch" means you insulted them as a female dog. 203.59.59.226 ( talk) 08:42, 27 May 2010 (UTC) Sutter Cane
Its merely a painting and not meant to reference animal sex. Please consider removing that image as its not really relevant. JasonHockeyGuy ( talk) 04:18, 15 May 2010 (UTC)
Reference 95 goes to a dead link.... —Preceding unsigned comment added by Dontdontoperate ( talk • contribs) 21:48, 26 May 2010 (UTC)
This article appears to have an agenda - that of elevating a social paradigm previously identified as a perversion into a sexual orientation. The actual role of Zoophilia in anglophonic society today is hereby spun by this article instead of being elucidated by it. There is a refusal to faithfully depict the highly unpopular nature of zoophilia. The article omits to develop the negative side of zoophilia, there is insufficient evidence that it is quite rare, dangerous, deviant, and repugnant to large numbers in the world's population. As it stands, this article appears to advance pro-zoophilic propaganda and insidiously refers to it as a sexual orientation. What is next? Inclusion of references to Mr. Appel and his apologetic vision of sexual deviance is highly manipulative. There is no balancing counter view which would introduce more tradition, and more common opinions of sexual perversion. I suspect that some people who are quite supportive of zoophilia have manipulated the neutrality of this article to it detriment. While I perceive the temptation to do this, I must petition Wikipedia to force this article to adhere to a more unbiased standpoint. Please, alter the article to inclue the fact that many feel that this is horrific, sick behavior. ~~ —Preceding unsigned comment added by VaniNY ( talk • contribs) 03:16, 1 June 2010 (UTC)
The section including the Furry and therian communities has a considerable number of problems.
First, it is unclear why numbers for zoophilia should be selectively reported for these two communities (fandoms). Why are there not also numbers on zoophilia among Trekkies, Harry Potter, and Twilight fans? As such, the entire paragraph should be deleted because it does not bear materially upon the topic of zoophilia.
Second, while the paragraph begins by citing the Furry and therian communities, no further mention is made of the therian community. If numbers cannot be provided for the therian community, then reference to it should be deleted because the claim is not validated in any way.
Third, the statement that "zoophiles make up around a fifth of the furry fandom" is not supported by the evidence cited. Of the two sources cited (Note 28: http://www.furcenter.org/pubs/SF_2008.pdf and Note 29: http://www.visi.com/~phantos/furrysoc.html ), the first reports 17.1% either positively or extremely positively identify as zoophiles, while the second reports 2% answered "yes" to "Zoophile?".
Fourth, by citing note 28 and note 29 sequentially, this suggests that both surveys agree on the "one fifth" number.
Fifth, unlike he author of the survey in note 28, the paragraph does not contextualize the 17.1% finding against numbers for zoophilia in the general population, which may run from 10-15% or "much higher in rural areas" ( http://www.furcenter.org/pubs/SF_2008.pdf, p. 26, note 11).
Taking items three through five into account, for the reasons noted above, I suggest that the sentence “The exact size of this group is not known, but zoophiles make up around a fifth of the furry fandom[28][29]” be rewritten as, “Surveys of the Furry community estimate that from 2[29] to17.1[28] percent of people polled identified as zoophiles, though neither poll clarifies if this identification indicates they are practicing zoophiles. In any case, these percentages are generally in the range of zoophiles in the population at large.[30]” [Note 30: http://www.furcenter.org/pubs/SF_2008.pdf, note 11, p. 26]."
At this point, it would be premature to offer edits for the remainder of the paragraph if it is going to be deleted entirely. But if a decision is reached for it to remain, then I will have further edits to propose.
Talastra ( talk) 05:21, 4 June 2010 (UTC)
In a paragraph almost at the end of this article is a description of various "meanings" of animal sexuality, such as the "pragmatic" belief that animal sexuality exists only for procreation. The discussion describes animal masturbation, sexual pleasure in animals without procreation, and other behaviors.
I suggest that a reference be made in this paragraph to the Wikipedia entry for Bruce Bagemihl, which states that his book Biological Exuberance "proposes a theory of sexual behavior in which reproduction is only one of its principal biological functions." — Preceding unsigned comment added by Alexlange ( talk • contribs) 14:58, 12 February 2011 (UTC)
Right now, the end of the article has the sections "Criticism of zoophilia" and the subsection "animal advocacy concerns", which include arguments for and against zoophilia. It might be more helpful to the reader if these arguments were sorted, with arguments in favor of zoophilia put into one section and arguments against it put into another. Instead of "Criticism of zoophilia", there would be an "arguments for zoophilia" section and an "arguments against zoophilia" section. Plateau99 ( talk) 16:31, 4 March 2011 (UTC)
I have tried and tried to get rid of a "cite error" message, but every time I try to fix the reference a "spam filter notice" message appears and because of this I cannot get rid of the "cite error" message. Does anybody know how to fix this problem? Perhaps there is someone who has the ability to override the "spam filter notice" in this case since the problem is clearly caused by a bug and not by a spam-related link. Plateau99 ( talk) 11:37, 25 March 2011 (UTC)
![]() | This
edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
usually non-abusive - this is incorrect! Since an animal cannot speak how can it defend itself fro such an ACT? This is not what wikipedia wants to turn into to, this editor did not provide an objective assesment of the definition - but instead found some dorky and i might add gross article praising animal abusers.
98.237.179.132 ( talk) 07:20, 2 May 2011 (UTC)
The japanese bestiality restaurant referred to in this article is an urban myth.
See: http://aki-akiaki.blogspot.com/2008/07/how-beastiality-restaurant-was-made.html
For details. Someone should remove that reference. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 109.123.99.48 ( talk) 19:42, 3 May 2011 (UTC)
Bestiality is illegal in Belgium since 2007. See http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zo%C3%B6filie#Belgi.C3.AB (Dutch site). —Preceding unsigned comment added by Dbuvens ( talk • contribs) 10:53, 7 May 2011 (UTC)
The japanese bestiality restaurant referred to in this article is an urban myth.
See: http://aki-akiaki.blogspot.com/2008/07/how-beastiality-restaurant-was-made.html
For details. Someone should remove that reference. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 109.123.99.48 ( talk) 19:42, 3 May 2011 (UTC)
Bestiality is illegal in Belgium since 2007. See http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zo%C3%B6filie#Belgi.C3.AB (Dutch site). —Preceding unsigned comment added by Dbuvens ( talk • contribs) 10:53, 7 May 2011 (UTC)
This article is full of non-truths, as an academic professor in sexology I was very well surprised and shocked at how much this article had warped figures largely, and how many users who "made" the article are actually zoophiles, perhaps even zoosadists themselves. Dr Miletski for one person is not a reliable person, considering their many fake aliases such as Dr Smith and association with the zoophile/pornographic industry. Indeed it could be argued that the article can be respected as neutral - but about 8 in 10 of the article is cramped with bias that is enough to confuse any student that I or anyone else is teaching. Please can some neutral review these errors since it is unhealthy considering how many curious teenagers and adults have access to this content, with the affirmation of non-truths promoting that there is nothing to worry about in the sexual activity with animals. Another note is that zoophilia has never been used in the higher studies to refer to bestiality. The article speaks of bestiality, and while in translation, the term is somewhat in correct usage, it is not English. I am pleased "coming soon" was kept from the article, it is a mockumentary and not to be referenced as it is not a genuine documentary, despite some "twisted facts. —Preceding unsigned comment added by NigelForsyth ( talk • contribs) 22:30, 18 May 2011 (UTC)
The Psychological, psychiatric, and research perspectives section states "The established view in the field of psychology is that zoophilia is a mental disorder." and then goes on to claim that the DSM-IV-TR does not consider zoophilia a mental disorder unless "it is accompanied by distress or interference with normal functioning on the part of the individual". No references are provided to support the claim that most specialists consider zoophilia (as defined by the article — "the practice of sex between humans and non-human animals (bestiality), or a preference or fixation on such practice" — i.e. not necessarily causing distress/impairment) a mental disorder per se and it is contradicted by the DSM. Should we remove the "established view" statement? Valaggar ( talk) 16:35, 26 May 2011 (UTC)
![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 20 | ← | Archive 22 | Archive 23 | Archive 24 | Archive 25 | Archive 26 | Archive 27 |
I posted a merge notice a few weeks ago. Received no opposition nor support so as suggested assumed consensus and went ahead with the merge. See reasoning here: Talk:Zoosexuality#Merge_with_Zoophilia_attempt_2. Help channel suggested I change the zoosexuality article into a redirect though I'm unsure what I'll do with the talk pages, will sort that out soon.
As for the integration... the terminology aspect was mostly integrated here. "Professional views of zoosexuality as a sexual orientation" is largely covered here with the word 'zoosexual' replaced with 'zoophilia'. The "Further discussion Forms of zoosexual activity" didn't seem to be needed to be integrated as it discussed it throughout the article in parts. "Miscellaneous comparisons with other orientations" was trivial and most content was quote. "Emotion in zoosexuality" covered already in zoophilia and Emotion in animals. "Intersubjective emotion" again mostly quote and only like one line.
So, mostly integrated in my opinion. Avalik ( talk) 02:27, 15 November 2009 (UTC)
Adds: Ah, I forgot. I'll be removing "Zoosexual" links and such tomorrow, not today just in case it gets reverted and disputed which would have me change everything back. Avalik ( talk) 02:29, 15 November 2009 (UTC)
Re: Well, that's not what 'zoophilia' actually is, during my times of sexological studies, we've treat 'zoophilia' as the romantic, sometimes even 'sexual' paraphilia that a Human can have, which attracts them to another species (usually specific). Also, 'zoophilia' is conceptual, it doesn't really exist as a singleton matter, it is a category of sexual attraction towards certain animal species, i.e. a dog lover is not a cow lover.
I understand that the DSM has caused some confusion in the last few years for doctors. This is why Hani Miletski promoted the term 'zoosexuality'. As 'zoo' (animal) + 'philia' (love) does not mean 'zoo' (animal) + 'sexuality' (sexualitas, sexual attraction). Of course, that matter is biologically disputed, besides.
Not all zoophiles are zoosexuals, and not all zoosexuals are zoophiles. The most common kind of zoophile is the standard pet lover.
Wouldn't it be better to rename this whole article as 'Zoosexuality'? Or would it be right to call love, sexuality?
Bestiality is the interspecific sexual activity between a Human and an individual of another species. Colloquially, I have seen 'zoophiles' like to be called 'zoophiles', and call any zoosexual that is not a zoophile, a 'bestialist'. The word 'bestialist' isn't exactly a real term, it is a neological adaption of accusative verbal noun 'bestiality'.
Secondary usage of 'zoophile' is 'erotic zoophilism', 'zoosexuality'. I think it is very accusative to use the secondary meaning of 'zoophile' on such an official information website like Wikipedia, for the article.
Zoophilia is usually platonic, zoosexuality may or may not feature zoophilia, and vice versa.
I hope this helps. J D Smith ( talk) 22:44, 25 November 2009 (UTC)
I dispute the neutrality of this merge. Zoosexuality was said to be the popular terminology for 'sexual zoophilia' in the last decade to avoid the confusion of the 'affinity for animals' from the 'sexual attraction towards animals', the term derived from Dr Miletski's work as cited in the article. The zoophilia article should have remained seperate from the zoosexual one.
The first line is: "Zoophilia, from the Greek ζῷον (zṓion, "animal") and φιλία (philia, "friendship" or "love") is the practice of sex between humans and animals (bestiality), or a preference or fixation on such practice. A person who practices zoophilia is known as a zoophile" - However, zoophilia is directly the sexual attraction and/or affinity towards animals. Zoosexuality being 'sexual zoophilia', referred to 'sexual zoophilia', whereas 'zoophilia' itself may or may not involve sexual relation. Also, the term, 'zoophilia' does not refer to the 'sexual activity', 'bestiality' does - this is no doubt an archaic terminology no longer used. Neutrality is thus disputed. The articles should have never merged since the terms refer to two different things, even if the categories do align somewhere.
There are two definitions for zoophilia, these also even exist on Wikipedia's side-project, Wiktionary, "1. An affinity or fondness for animals. 2. A paraphilia involving sexual attraction to animals." What valid reference states that 'zoophilia' (affinity / sexual attraction) is 'zoosexuality' (sexual orientation/identification) or 'bestiality' (sexual interaction)?
I have reasons to believe 'zoophilia' references human-animal love, not the sexuality, however, the document should also refer to the sexuality, since culturally, love is often relative to sexuality (passion). Either the article should be changed so 'zoophilia' refers to the 'affinity and/or sexual attraction', and 'bestiality' refers to the 'sexual activity', etc or seperated into the seperate articles (since, after all, this is a very broad field of research). Other terms such as 'zoosexuality', 'zooerasty', 'zoosadism' with their respective sections, etc. Since the article would be large with such a compilation, I recommend the seperation of the articles and citation to more modern research definitions (the article is getting clumsy and old). FireWolf Flux ( talk) 22:08, 3 April 2010 (UTC)
I thought it might be a good idea to add the 'zoophilia in fantasy' section. My friend's favourited new film is called 'Coming Soon', and its a mockumentary, it's commercial and very interesting - since it is so popular and is even going to have its premiere at the world famous 'Living Theatre' museum in New York City, I thought it would be worthy of mention in such a section. I can see that there's a bit of an issue about it on the talk page, so as a friend, I'd thought I'd clarify that. Unless Coming Soon has international success, I don't think it's 100% worthy of an argument, after all it has been in circulation since 2006.
Whatever the decision, just my idea ;). Does anybody know of any other good fictional arts over zoophilia? J D Smith ( talk) 22:28, 25 November 2009 (UTC)
This is an old excerpt of the 'Coming Soon' on Wikipedia... "# Coming Soon (2006, Sir Tijn Po, released by Devilhead Films):: Won a special award for "Originality and Support for Suppressed Minorities" at the Festivalu Finále Plzeň. [27] The film takes the form of a documentary about E.F.A., the world's first zoophile-rights organization,[28] thereby exploring "civilization's eternal quest for the perfect balance between love, tolerance, morality, censorship, tradition, experimentation, etc." The film is currently released in the Czech Republic and an English version is being prepared for international distribution. Official website, imdb entry" - it doesn't look like spam to me and has good references - it just needs cleaning up. [27] http://www.filmfestfinale.cz/cz/ [28] http://www.equalityforall.net/. Since this is a popular film in the zoosexual community, I ask why it was removed. I cannot edit the article as it is locked, per se. J D Smith ( talk) 19:31, 29 November 2009 (UTC)
I heard about the multiple accounts, my friend got banned for being called a sock puppet even though he wasn't one. EFA is a popular offline/online secret organization - so it's likely that it was many members trying to publicise to same issue, respectively. It shouldn't be advertised, it just requires little mention seen as it takes up 10% of Google for the keyword 'zoophilia', enter "zoophilia" in the Google search engine, for what videos/sites are excerpted first? Coming Soon trailers. The EFA webmaster is a female as I have just contacted her, she was apparently nothing to do with it. Judging from the many users there you can see it was simply an article request or one of their members pushing it too far. Living Theatre is hosting the pre-releasing film currently, they haven't hosted a moving picture in a while as they are museum. The website also says so: http://www.livingtheatre.org/ It has been in the major news papers in Czech on second pages. May be the Czech Wikipedia would be more suffice? Only it's an English art with several languages, that's all, so it's hard to make the decision as to where is most appropriate. The film is apparently non-profit, with all proceeds going to fund the EFA project and animal charities - whether that is true or not is another case. But if it is so, the promotion is neutral. I can see a lot more unknown films than this one on Wikipedia, though, which adds to the confusion to them, I suppose, respectively. J D Smith ( talk) 03:53, 10 December 2009 (UTC)
I believe the neutrality here may be disputable, for Coming Soon may have been advertising (despite the fact it was clear that EFA's members and film viewers were adding promotions), but there are many sources on the internet that cite the film. I suggest a removal of the other minor documentaries, since there may be media competence between these documentaries, and the prevention of them being added that of it's media rivals. Neutrality disputed in both directions. FireWolf Flux ( talk) 20:35, 2 April 2010 (UTC)
EFA and Coming Soon is very popular in the zoophile and sexological community, if you Google 'zoophile rights' or 'bestiality rights', you would see them in at least the top ten of the results. Zoophiles and sexologists researching the topic of zoophile rights who may be seeking the docu-mockumentary may like to look at other resources, it's simple that Coming Soon is worth a single line of mention due it's impact on news, (hoax or not). People come to Wikipedia seeking such information. Consider 'EFA' a prototype, it is very much alive and its members are pretty much kicking about, especially online. Of course, activism is controversial on sites like this, which is why it should not mentioned sinced that'd make the information possibly biased. imdb pro also reviews the film. For example on what an example is, you just need to read Wikipedia's article, alone "Mockumentary (also known as a mock documentary) is a genre of film and television in which fictitious events are presented in a non-fiction or documentary format; the term can also refer to an individual work within the genre. Such works are often used to analyze or comment on current events and issues by using a fictitious setting." - 'Coming Soon' depicts the future, the future does not exist yet, thus is fictious. —Preceding unsigned comment added by FireWolf Flux ( talk • contribs) 18:03, 16 April 2010 (UTC)
Coming Soon also went to the historic Living Theatre in New York City, as presented here. Nobody has spammed on Wikipedia, IMDB, Amazon, etc, amongst artists, the film has had a lot of popularity and controversy in Czechoslovakia. I have looked at the sock puppet page and examined that there are only a few users, all of which I know for a fact are different people. May be it is the EFA members that are keen, I understand that those members have been digging a hole in this issue since they tried promoting it, no doubt they are eager due to their fanatic activism in zoophile rights, knowing that Coming Soon would be an easy icon to push. —Preceding unsigned comment added by FireWolf Flux ( talk • contribs) 20:28, 16 April 2010 (UTC)
There seems to be two problems with this article in it's current form, although the latter is dependent on the former.
First, the terms used. As mentioned in the article's own terms section, there has been, more frequently as of lately, a line drawn between zoophilia and bestiality. The former is generally defined as a paraphilia or orientation towards animals, whereas the latter is defined as either simply the act, with no regard to the emotion present, or, on occasion, the act when there is specifically no emotion present. Generally it is the former.
However, the article itself ignores it's own term section and tends to regard the terms as interchangeable, where, those familiar with the terms (as those who are unfamiliar with the terms should be discounted: Misuse of a term does not change it's definition) do draw such a distinction between the two phenomona.
As such, without the distinction being drawn properly, I believe the terms are not properly communicating information in the article. I propose an edit to the article that makes a distinction between the two terms. When speaking of the act itself, the term bestiality would be used. when speaking of the orientation or paraphilia, the term Zoophilia would be used.
Second, with the difference in terms in mind, I believe many of the images are out of place on an article about zoophilia, since they depict what would generally be accepted as nothing more than bestiality, rather than the orientation or paraphilia behind the act.
(Also, please forgive any errors I might have made here. It's my first time doing this) XCTI ( talk) 08:03, 16 April 2010 (UTC)
A television program (can't remember which) mentioned zoophilia as referring to people sexually attracted to people pretending to be animals (wearing dog collars, acting like a dog, etc), as distinct from bestiality. Is there such a distinction in the definition? Or what is the correct alternative term?-- Jeffro77 ( talk) 06:00, 12 December 2009 (UTC)
Under the heading "Criticisms of zoophilia or zoosexual relations" there appears the statement that cross-species sex sometimes occurs in nature, and it's supported by a citation (currently #81) identified as "Mating toads cross the species barrier".
The source describes two "species" of toad mating with each other to produce offspring.
Now I realize that the precise meaning of "species" can be debated, but if this article is about sexual activity, it's about that kind of activity between human beings and animals, i.e. creatures of different taxonomic families or groups who are incapable of reproduction with each other. By definition, that puts the subject beyond the taxonomic group of "species". The reference in question would only be relevant if, for example, it described toads who mated with fish. Of course it does not do that; it doesn't even go far enough to describe toads of genus Spea mating with toads of genus Bufonidae.
This article is concerned with activities between human beings and animals, i.e. between creatures of different taxonomic families or even groups, who are incapable of sexual reproduction with each other. Therefore, a mention of different species who are entirely able to mate and produce viable offspring fails to provide any support or enlightenment to the subject. It's not relevant. I've therefore removed the sentence entirely rather than try to hunt down an example that is more relevant to this article.
JH49S (
talk)
00:45, 18 March 2010 (UTC)
Bestiality usually refers to the cross-species sexual interaction between a human and a non-human animal (as coined, archaically, a 'beast'). 'Zoo' also refers to a non-human animal, so thus a human sexually attracted to non-human animals is a 'zoosexual', however, since both non-human animal parties in a cross-species (without a human party) are already non-human, the term is contradictory. That would mean all non-human animals with cross and non-cross species orientation would be 'zoosexual' - this is perhaps the case, but the terms seem odd to apply. This article should link into the correct section of the 'Animal sexual behaviour' article on the subject of cross-species sexuality where humans are not involved. Shouldn't this content be moved from this article from that one? For Wikipedia encapsulation, shouldn't the article just link to the cross-species sexuality page(s)?
I believe that zoosexuality comes under cross-species sexuality (the difference being a human is explicitly described as being involved), not the other way around. FireWolf Flux ( talk) 22:23, 3 April 2010 (UTC)
It is also spelled beastiality, despite peoples complaints. It's just that it's also, but not as commonly in relation to MODERN beastiality, called "bestiality" because the practice has been around since it was first named in Latin. Ignore those attempting to get out of it, they probably still think calling someone a "bitch" means you insulted them as a female dog. 203.59.59.226 ( talk) 08:42, 27 May 2010 (UTC) Sutter Cane
Its merely a painting and not meant to reference animal sex. Please consider removing that image as its not really relevant. JasonHockeyGuy ( talk) 04:18, 15 May 2010 (UTC)
Reference 95 goes to a dead link.... —Preceding unsigned comment added by Dontdontoperate ( talk • contribs) 21:48, 26 May 2010 (UTC)
This article appears to have an agenda - that of elevating a social paradigm previously identified as a perversion into a sexual orientation. The actual role of Zoophilia in anglophonic society today is hereby spun by this article instead of being elucidated by it. There is a refusal to faithfully depict the highly unpopular nature of zoophilia. The article omits to develop the negative side of zoophilia, there is insufficient evidence that it is quite rare, dangerous, deviant, and repugnant to large numbers in the world's population. As it stands, this article appears to advance pro-zoophilic propaganda and insidiously refers to it as a sexual orientation. What is next? Inclusion of references to Mr. Appel and his apologetic vision of sexual deviance is highly manipulative. There is no balancing counter view which would introduce more tradition, and more common opinions of sexual perversion. I suspect that some people who are quite supportive of zoophilia have manipulated the neutrality of this article to it detriment. While I perceive the temptation to do this, I must petition Wikipedia to force this article to adhere to a more unbiased standpoint. Please, alter the article to inclue the fact that many feel that this is horrific, sick behavior. ~~ —Preceding unsigned comment added by VaniNY ( talk • contribs) 03:16, 1 June 2010 (UTC)
The section including the Furry and therian communities has a considerable number of problems.
First, it is unclear why numbers for zoophilia should be selectively reported for these two communities (fandoms). Why are there not also numbers on zoophilia among Trekkies, Harry Potter, and Twilight fans? As such, the entire paragraph should be deleted because it does not bear materially upon the topic of zoophilia.
Second, while the paragraph begins by citing the Furry and therian communities, no further mention is made of the therian community. If numbers cannot be provided for the therian community, then reference to it should be deleted because the claim is not validated in any way.
Third, the statement that "zoophiles make up around a fifth of the furry fandom" is not supported by the evidence cited. Of the two sources cited (Note 28: http://www.furcenter.org/pubs/SF_2008.pdf and Note 29: http://www.visi.com/~phantos/furrysoc.html ), the first reports 17.1% either positively or extremely positively identify as zoophiles, while the second reports 2% answered "yes" to "Zoophile?".
Fourth, by citing note 28 and note 29 sequentially, this suggests that both surveys agree on the "one fifth" number.
Fifth, unlike he author of the survey in note 28, the paragraph does not contextualize the 17.1% finding against numbers for zoophilia in the general population, which may run from 10-15% or "much higher in rural areas" ( http://www.furcenter.org/pubs/SF_2008.pdf, p. 26, note 11).
Taking items three through five into account, for the reasons noted above, I suggest that the sentence “The exact size of this group is not known, but zoophiles make up around a fifth of the furry fandom[28][29]” be rewritten as, “Surveys of the Furry community estimate that from 2[29] to17.1[28] percent of people polled identified as zoophiles, though neither poll clarifies if this identification indicates they are practicing zoophiles. In any case, these percentages are generally in the range of zoophiles in the population at large.[30]” [Note 30: http://www.furcenter.org/pubs/SF_2008.pdf, note 11, p. 26]."
At this point, it would be premature to offer edits for the remainder of the paragraph if it is going to be deleted entirely. But if a decision is reached for it to remain, then I will have further edits to propose.
Talastra ( talk) 05:21, 4 June 2010 (UTC)
In a paragraph almost at the end of this article is a description of various "meanings" of animal sexuality, such as the "pragmatic" belief that animal sexuality exists only for procreation. The discussion describes animal masturbation, sexual pleasure in animals without procreation, and other behaviors.
I suggest that a reference be made in this paragraph to the Wikipedia entry for Bruce Bagemihl, which states that his book Biological Exuberance "proposes a theory of sexual behavior in which reproduction is only one of its principal biological functions." — Preceding unsigned comment added by Alexlange ( talk • contribs) 14:58, 12 February 2011 (UTC)
Right now, the end of the article has the sections "Criticism of zoophilia" and the subsection "animal advocacy concerns", which include arguments for and against zoophilia. It might be more helpful to the reader if these arguments were sorted, with arguments in favor of zoophilia put into one section and arguments against it put into another. Instead of "Criticism of zoophilia", there would be an "arguments for zoophilia" section and an "arguments against zoophilia" section. Plateau99 ( talk) 16:31, 4 March 2011 (UTC)
I have tried and tried to get rid of a "cite error" message, but every time I try to fix the reference a "spam filter notice" message appears and because of this I cannot get rid of the "cite error" message. Does anybody know how to fix this problem? Perhaps there is someone who has the ability to override the "spam filter notice" in this case since the problem is clearly caused by a bug and not by a spam-related link. Plateau99 ( talk) 11:37, 25 March 2011 (UTC)
![]() | This
edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
usually non-abusive - this is incorrect! Since an animal cannot speak how can it defend itself fro such an ACT? This is not what wikipedia wants to turn into to, this editor did not provide an objective assesment of the definition - but instead found some dorky and i might add gross article praising animal abusers.
98.237.179.132 ( talk) 07:20, 2 May 2011 (UTC)
The japanese bestiality restaurant referred to in this article is an urban myth.
See: http://aki-akiaki.blogspot.com/2008/07/how-beastiality-restaurant-was-made.html
For details. Someone should remove that reference. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 109.123.99.48 ( talk) 19:42, 3 May 2011 (UTC)
Bestiality is illegal in Belgium since 2007. See http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zo%C3%B6filie#Belgi.C3.AB (Dutch site). —Preceding unsigned comment added by Dbuvens ( talk • contribs) 10:53, 7 May 2011 (UTC)
The japanese bestiality restaurant referred to in this article is an urban myth.
See: http://aki-akiaki.blogspot.com/2008/07/how-beastiality-restaurant-was-made.html
For details. Someone should remove that reference. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 109.123.99.48 ( talk) 19:42, 3 May 2011 (UTC)
Bestiality is illegal in Belgium since 2007. See http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zo%C3%B6filie#Belgi.C3.AB (Dutch site). —Preceding unsigned comment added by Dbuvens ( talk • contribs) 10:53, 7 May 2011 (UTC)
This article is full of non-truths, as an academic professor in sexology I was very well surprised and shocked at how much this article had warped figures largely, and how many users who "made" the article are actually zoophiles, perhaps even zoosadists themselves. Dr Miletski for one person is not a reliable person, considering their many fake aliases such as Dr Smith and association with the zoophile/pornographic industry. Indeed it could be argued that the article can be respected as neutral - but about 8 in 10 of the article is cramped with bias that is enough to confuse any student that I or anyone else is teaching. Please can some neutral review these errors since it is unhealthy considering how many curious teenagers and adults have access to this content, with the affirmation of non-truths promoting that there is nothing to worry about in the sexual activity with animals. Another note is that zoophilia has never been used in the higher studies to refer to bestiality. The article speaks of bestiality, and while in translation, the term is somewhat in correct usage, it is not English. I am pleased "coming soon" was kept from the article, it is a mockumentary and not to be referenced as it is not a genuine documentary, despite some "twisted facts. —Preceding unsigned comment added by NigelForsyth ( talk • contribs) 22:30, 18 May 2011 (UTC)
The Psychological, psychiatric, and research perspectives section states "The established view in the field of psychology is that zoophilia is a mental disorder." and then goes on to claim that the DSM-IV-TR does not consider zoophilia a mental disorder unless "it is accompanied by distress or interference with normal functioning on the part of the individual". No references are provided to support the claim that most specialists consider zoophilia (as defined by the article — "the practice of sex between humans and non-human animals (bestiality), or a preference or fixation on such practice" — i.e. not necessarily causing distress/impairment) a mental disorder per se and it is contradicted by the DSM. Should we remove the "established view" statement? Valaggar ( talk) 16:35, 26 May 2011 (UTC)