This article must adhere to the biographies of living persons (BLP) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or
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A fact from Zoé Clauzure appeared on Wikipedia's
Main Page in the Did you know column on 21 March 2024 (
check views). The text of the entry was as follows:
The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as
this nomination's talk page,
the article's talk page or
Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.
Note that the IPA template in the lede causes unexpected (incorrect) results from DYK check in the form of about 200 extra characters to its count; the "Cœur" article is indeed short of the 1500 prose characters required and will need to be expanded further.
BlueMoonset (
talk)
00:33, 5 February 2024 (UTC)reply
While we're waiting, I'll go ahead and review
Zoé Clauzure, which can run alone if the expansion isn't forthcoming. The nomination was a few hours late, though it was New Year's, so some leeway can of course be given. Article prose is above minimum length, but there are some referencing issues. There are a few bare URLs, including a citation to RIA Novosti, which,
reliability issues aside, isn't optimal in an English Wikipedia article about a French singer. And what is the purpose of the refn template added in
this edit? Hook is within length and verified to the Eurovision press release, though it doesn't capture interest. Maybe consider something that touches on the song's subject of bullying? --
Paul_012 (
talk)
18:25, 18 February 2024 (UTC)reply
The song article is over 1650 characters now if I counted correctly. (I'm not happy with it and I'm going to work on it some more. But I'm probably done for today and will return tomorrow.) --
Moscow Connection (
talk)
08:19, 25 February 2024 (UTC)reply
As it stands, some 540 bytes of text are shared between the two articles. I could subtract it off the longer article, which would leave both just barely above the 1,500 mark, but that's too close for comfort in my view. The lyrics quote is presented without context or analysis and doesn't quite satisfy
WP:NFC, so I'm inclined to discount its length in addition to the policy issue. Unless you have time for significant work on the song article, I'd suggest going with the Zoé Clauzure article alone, and focus on addressing the referencing issues raised above. --
Paul_012 (
talk)
09:17, 26 February 2024 (UTC)reply
Paul_012, I thought I'd have a look and see if we could push this through but really, I saw only problems. I took care of a couple of the bare URLs (shouldn't have been in there in the first place, and that's two months ago), removed a bunch of YouTube links, and tried to expand the biography, but there simply isn't much more. I looked for more sources, more recent ones, but didn't find them, and I am not sure that the article on the song can be expanded any more. If the biography is long enough, then go with that alone, I think.
Drmies (
talk)
18:42, 2 March 2024 (UTC)reply
Thanks,
Drmies, for the improvements. I did a bit more clean-up. The referencing could still be better, as it currently relies a lot on primary sources (her website, the competitions' press releases), but as it stands there's nothing contentious or potentially controversial, so I don't see any BLP issues.
Zoé Clauzure is now good enough to run alone, but it still needs a better hook. --
Paul_012 (
talk)
07:53, 3 March 2024 (UTC)reply
Moscow Connection, I don't know, and I'm not going to pull the trigger on this, but there just isn't that much material on the song and pulling everything in makes it look a bit fluff. The colors red and white are in the video? Well... And I saw you put that "no direct reference to school" back in, with a source that doesn't seem very strong to me--"no direct reference to school bullying" is better, but I don't know if the source says that, and it would be the question of why the song should be about school bullying if it makes no direct reference to it. I'll let
Paul_012 decide on this, ok? Thanks,
Drmies (
talk)
02:28, 5 March 2024 (UTC)reply
@
Drmies: Yes, I pulled everything I could find. I've added the word "bullying". The source says: "При этом в тексте песни нет прямых указаний на школьную проблематику" ([With all that said / But] the song's lyrics do not contain direct references to [any] school issues." Okay, just proceed without the song. Sorry for the inconvenience. --
Moscow Connection (
talk)
22:55, 6 March 2024 (UTC)reply
This is already the oldest nomination that is still active, so my suggestion is if the song article is too problematic, it would be better to just debold it and not include it in the nomination. At least it would be easier to get this across the finish line.
Narutolovehinata5 (
talk ·
contributions)
10:15, 5 March 2024 (UTC)reply
I'd echo Narutolovehinata5's suggestions. While improved, I'm still not quite comfortable with promoting the song article. As a reader I feel it still needs further development with information directly about the song itself, but maybe source coverage for that isn't yet available. (As it stands, Wiwibloggs is about the only source that talks about the lyrics in detail.) I'd repeat my above suggestion: Let's just stick with the Zoé Clauzure article for the bolded item; the song article can still be linked normally. A better hook is still needed. Something about her winning song being about school bullying could work. --
Paul_012 (
talk)
12:22, 5 March 2024 (UTC)reply
Okay, proceed with the Zoé Clauzure article as the only bolded item. I've already wasted too much of everybody's time with this nomination. Sorry for the inconvenience. --
Moscow Connection (
talk)
22:55, 6 March 2024 (UTC)reply
This article must adhere to the biographies of living persons (BLP) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or
poorly sourcedmust be removed immediately from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially
libellous. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to
this noticeboard.If you are a subject of this article, or acting on behalf of one, and you need help, please see this help page.
This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following
WikiProjects:
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Wikipedia's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to
join the project and
contribute to the discussion. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the
documentation.BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Biographybiography articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Eurovision, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
Eurovision-related topics on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
the discussion and see a list of open tasks.EurovisionWikipedia:WikiProject EurovisionTemplate:WikiProject EurovisionEurovision articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Pop music, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of articles related to
pop music on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Pop musicWikipedia:WikiProject Pop musicTemplate:WikiProject Pop musicPop music articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject France, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
France on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
the discussion and see a list of open tasks.FranceWikipedia:WikiProject FranceTemplate:WikiProject FranceFrance articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Women in Music, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
Women in music on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Women in MusicWikipedia:WikiProject Women in MusicTemplate:WikiProject Women in MusicWomen in music articles
A fact from Zoé Clauzure appeared on Wikipedia's
Main Page in the Did you know column on 21 March 2024 (
check views). The text of the entry was as follows:
The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as
this nomination's talk page,
the article's talk page or
Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.
Note that the IPA template in the lede causes unexpected (incorrect) results from DYK check in the form of about 200 extra characters to its count; the "Cœur" article is indeed short of the 1500 prose characters required and will need to be expanded further.
BlueMoonset (
talk)
00:33, 5 February 2024 (UTC)reply
While we're waiting, I'll go ahead and review
Zoé Clauzure, which can run alone if the expansion isn't forthcoming. The nomination was a few hours late, though it was New Year's, so some leeway can of course be given. Article prose is above minimum length, but there are some referencing issues. There are a few bare URLs, including a citation to RIA Novosti, which,
reliability issues aside, isn't optimal in an English Wikipedia article about a French singer. And what is the purpose of the refn template added in
this edit? Hook is within length and verified to the Eurovision press release, though it doesn't capture interest. Maybe consider something that touches on the song's subject of bullying? --
Paul_012 (
talk)
18:25, 18 February 2024 (UTC)reply
The song article is over 1650 characters now if I counted correctly. (I'm not happy with it and I'm going to work on it some more. But I'm probably done for today and will return tomorrow.) --
Moscow Connection (
talk)
08:19, 25 February 2024 (UTC)reply
As it stands, some 540 bytes of text are shared between the two articles. I could subtract it off the longer article, which would leave both just barely above the 1,500 mark, but that's too close for comfort in my view. The lyrics quote is presented without context or analysis and doesn't quite satisfy
WP:NFC, so I'm inclined to discount its length in addition to the policy issue. Unless you have time for significant work on the song article, I'd suggest going with the Zoé Clauzure article alone, and focus on addressing the referencing issues raised above. --
Paul_012 (
talk)
09:17, 26 February 2024 (UTC)reply
Paul_012, I thought I'd have a look and see if we could push this through but really, I saw only problems. I took care of a couple of the bare URLs (shouldn't have been in there in the first place, and that's two months ago), removed a bunch of YouTube links, and tried to expand the biography, but there simply isn't much more. I looked for more sources, more recent ones, but didn't find them, and I am not sure that the article on the song can be expanded any more. If the biography is long enough, then go with that alone, I think.
Drmies (
talk)
18:42, 2 March 2024 (UTC)reply
Thanks,
Drmies, for the improvements. I did a bit more clean-up. The referencing could still be better, as it currently relies a lot on primary sources (her website, the competitions' press releases), but as it stands there's nothing contentious or potentially controversial, so I don't see any BLP issues.
Zoé Clauzure is now good enough to run alone, but it still needs a better hook. --
Paul_012 (
talk)
07:53, 3 March 2024 (UTC)reply
Moscow Connection, I don't know, and I'm not going to pull the trigger on this, but there just isn't that much material on the song and pulling everything in makes it look a bit fluff. The colors red and white are in the video? Well... And I saw you put that "no direct reference to school" back in, with a source that doesn't seem very strong to me--"no direct reference to school bullying" is better, but I don't know if the source says that, and it would be the question of why the song should be about school bullying if it makes no direct reference to it. I'll let
Paul_012 decide on this, ok? Thanks,
Drmies (
talk)
02:28, 5 March 2024 (UTC)reply
@
Drmies: Yes, I pulled everything I could find. I've added the word "bullying". The source says: "При этом в тексте песни нет прямых указаний на школьную проблематику" ([With all that said / But] the song's lyrics do not contain direct references to [any] school issues." Okay, just proceed without the song. Sorry for the inconvenience. --
Moscow Connection (
talk)
22:55, 6 March 2024 (UTC)reply
This is already the oldest nomination that is still active, so my suggestion is if the song article is too problematic, it would be better to just debold it and not include it in the nomination. At least it would be easier to get this across the finish line.
Narutolovehinata5 (
talk ·
contributions)
10:15, 5 March 2024 (UTC)reply
I'd echo Narutolovehinata5's suggestions. While improved, I'm still not quite comfortable with promoting the song article. As a reader I feel it still needs further development with information directly about the song itself, but maybe source coverage for that isn't yet available. (As it stands, Wiwibloggs is about the only source that talks about the lyrics in detail.) I'd repeat my above suggestion: Let's just stick with the Zoé Clauzure article for the bolded item; the song article can still be linked normally. A better hook is still needed. Something about her winning song being about school bullying could work. --
Paul_012 (
talk)
12:22, 5 March 2024 (UTC)reply
Okay, proceed with the Zoé Clauzure article as the only bolded item. I've already wasted too much of everybody's time with this nomination. Sorry for the inconvenience. --
Moscow Connection (
talk)
22:55, 6 March 2024 (UTC)reply