All of you are just arguing here about which god made zidane, yours or mine . Zidane knows exactly who god is .Thats why he’s a great man, who doesn’t want to join your debate.
PLEASE NOTE: All discussion about the World Cup Final Headbutt is under the "Headbutt" topic. Click the link in the contents and add to it if you wish don't create a new topic for it so it can all be kept together. SenorKristobbal 23:10, 9 July 2006 (UTC)
The article says "Although the polling continued until midnight, most votes were cast during half-time, prior to the headbutting incident" but thats not true since FIFA says it's impossible to tell howmany of votes belong to before and after the incident. In previous tournaments, the ballot has closed at halftime in the final and the winner announced soon after the match but in this case even thought the polling was open after the headbutting, Zidane won the golden ball. Which means that what zidane did had no influence on the voters. So, please clear up these nonsences and gossips and put some facts. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 64.231.193.87 ( talk • contribs) 22:03, 11 July 2006 (UTC).
Why don't you check this out.( it's from FIFA, under "IRONIC TOUCH "). (A reliable source haha!sorry, couldnt stop it) [http://sports.yahoo.com/sow/news?slug=reu-worldfifadc&prov=reuters&type=lgns]. Not to mention that the media committee for Golden ball cantake away the award if it wants to. The reason that Zidane still has the award because media wants to!
I agree with the protesting. Most of the votes ? What does this mean? 51%? 60% 99%? This is completely vague and therefore is an opinionated, unfair, but mostly journalistically unprofessional and peremptory comment directly aimed against Zidane, as this journalist has NO WAY whatsoever to check (or of he has than he should have, but he hasn;t done his job properly) how many votes were cast before the incident (other than the vague "most" which means nothing). I don't think the "reliable" (prove it!) source is so reliable, now, is it?! I rest my case. Indeed: Look at it this way: if 51% of the votes were cast before the incident, that meand that DESPITE the reprehensible headbutt, the journalists STILL think he's the best. Which really means he's amazing and judged as such. And that is exactly the same if 75% of the votes were cast before considering the margin Zidane had ahead. So appreciation is in the way you write it, and this comment is written in a mos unacceptable subjective way. This does not comply with the standrads of Wikipedia. On a separate note: I would also like to add that while headbutting is of course not acceptable, the golden ball rewards the best football player. technically. It is debatable whther a head butt shuould be part of this technicalities. One can see this has something completely separate Vs how a player is good. And Zidane was undeniably the best player, by far, of the tournament. So if he should be sanctioned, that should be with a separate type of sanction which has nothing to do with the golden Ball.
-- 81.170.73.117 11:19, 13 July 2006 (UTC)
FIFA can't take Zidane Golden ball away since it is given to him by media not FIFA so i suggest to remove that false citation and the comment from the FIFA investigation section too. you3f 18:19, 13 July 2006 (UTC)
First up in this dicussion page shall be his name. His first, middle, and last name are Arabic. The pronounciation of his names in Arabic (using English pronounciation) is Zaynadeen Yazeed Zaydan. In the Algerian accent, which corrupts the Arabic pronounciation, it becomes "Zeendeen Yazeed Zeedan". So the transliteration of the Arabic name & the transliteration of the name in Algerian accent should be seperated.
Arabic: زين الدين يزيد زيدان,
His first name is a wonderful example of a complex Arabic name with more then one part.
Zaynadeen.
Zayn = beauty http://www.behindthename.com/php/view.php?name=zayn
adeen = the path/way http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deen_(Arabic_term)
Zaynadeen means (the) Beautiful (one) of the Path. It is a descriptive name not meaning "beautiful path" rather the beautiful one of the path.
Yazeed = one who increases
Zaydan = overabundant twice (not twice overabundant)
The name Zaydan is the same as the name Zayd except the "an" ending means "two". Zayd = overabundant. Zaydan is emphasizing the overabundance of something that they possess, such as for example talent. One may say they possess an overabundance of talent. But with the word Zaydan, it is like saying overabundant twice of, for example, talent.
So his full name, like many Arabic names, could be put into one sentence. Zinedine Yazid Zidane The beautiful one of the path. One who increases. One who is overabundant, twice.
For the Arabic ear his name automatically becomes his description.
The beautiful one of football (his path). One who increases (advancing). One who is overabundant twice (in ability, talent, & genius). --by BB--
Ok the topic of being called Yaz. Yazid (Yazeed) is his second "first name" (middle name in France) and the name he went by at home with his family. Yaz is the nickname of Yazid (Yazeed). His name, Zinedine (Zaynadeen), is used in Arabic more as a title then a name. Long ago, if one was special amongst the people, they may be honored with the addition of the title "Zaynadeen". A title of honor. Sometime prior to the European renessance, Arabs started giving that title of honor at birth, along with a the real first name which became the second "first name". So you will find many who have the name Zaynadeen also have a second "first name", such as Yazid (Yazeed). It just happens that his second "first name" is used in France as a middle name. So his birth name in Arabic would be "Zaynadeen Yazeed" then his last name Zidane (Zaydan). Just as an example, lets say one is honored by the queen with the title of "Sir", then someday people felt they didn't need a queen to give their child that title...So instead of naming their child John, they named him Sir John. --by BB--
Can we get that link of because this is an English page and the article i written in German, it seems a bit irrelevant if we cannot understand it.
Well, I used Google's translation service, and here is what I got: [http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.faz.net%2Fs%2FRubEC1ACFE1EE274C81BCD3621EF555C83C%2FDoc%7EE0DB6C733FD4B4271BB2DF785640AD9EA%7EATpl%7EEcommon%7EScontent.html&langpair=de%7Cen&hl=en&safe=off&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&prev=%2Flanguage_tools]
Seems to be discussing player wages rather than disallowing Italy's win.
==
==
==
the red card of Zidane was not faire == == ==
PFFF yes it was
"FIFA investigation On July 11, 2006, FIFA declared its intent to officially investigate the incident.[29] It has been speculated in the German press, that the non-discrimination provision which FIFA adopted for its disciplinary code on 28 March 2006[30][31]. They married in 1993 and have four sons named Enzo, Luca, Théo and Elyaz. Zidane describes himself as a "non-practicing Muslim".[32] Allegations that Zidane's father was a harki, or Algerian supporter of French rule, have been denied by Zidane himself.[33]"
the part about him becoming married in 1993 has no relevance to this section of the page, can someone please clean it up? i would do it myslef but even my contribution would need cleaning up. thankyou.
"An Amendment regarding discrimination to Art. 55, Par. 4 of the FIFA Disciplinary Code [3] stipulates that if any player, association or club official or spectator publicly disparages, discriminates against or denigrates someone in a defamatory manner on account of race, colour, language, religion or ethnic origin, or perpetrates any other discriminatory and/or contemptuous act and can be attributed to a certain team, the team in question faces deduction of points in the group stage resp. disqualification in the knockout stage.
The new provisions had been adopted on 28 March 2006 and may lead to the FIFA Executive Committee imposing harsh sanctions and even disallowing Italy's team the World Cup victory if Materazzi is convicted of having insulted Zidane with racial slurs.[26]"
Seeing as the investigation was only announced today, I don't think the conclusion suggested in the above paragraphs needs to be displayed (yet). Here's the link to the ESPNsoccernet article that deals with the matter [http://soccernet.espn.go.com/news/story?id=373731&cc=5901]. Nowhere (believe it or not) does it mention that Materazzi's use of language is being investigated. It would be really hard to prove the content of any insults exchanged between the two players. We should wait until the conclusion of the investigation before posting consequences; the paragraphs should be removed and replaced with a comment like "The investigation is currently in progress". -- Nicklob 17:30, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
PLEASE NOTE: All discussion about the World Cup Final Headbutt is under the "Headbutt" topic. Click the link in the contents and add to it if you wish don't create a new topic for it so it can all be kept together. SenorKristobbal 23:10, 9 July 2006 (UTC)
Whoever made that moving .gif, why not redo it but deinterlace it first? It looks pretty bad.
Thanks for the redirect, jheimans. I should have realized that a star of such magnitude would already have an article. -- Ed Poor
Shouldn't this be under "Zinédine Zidane" rather than "Zinedane Zidane". This conforms with Wiki's policy of using proper names. Any objections? Mandel 10:09, Aug 3, 2004 (UTC)
the correct spelling in France is "Zinedine", pronounced "Zindin". The incorrect spelling comes from journalists mispronoucing this name. see [http://www.google.fr/search?q=pr%C3%A9nom+Zinedine&sourceid=mozilla-search&start=0&start=0&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official|Google search "Prénom Zinedine"]and [http://meilleursprenoms.com/Etymologie/Etymologie.php3?search=Zinedine&horiz=Go|this site on the Arab Etymology of first names] for references. Zidane himself has spoken up about the incorrect pronounciation and spelling of his name, according to the Europe1 Radio news in Paris. Musikfabrik 17:08, 28 February 2006 (UTC)
We should also add an ambiguation for the Zidane of Final Fantasy 9... :) -Aya
Just to let you all know I made a change from "Paris Saint-Germain's Enzo Francescoli" to "Olympique de Marseille's Enzo Francescoli". Francescoli never played for Paris Saint Germain but for Racing Club de Paris. After that he moved to Marseille. Since Zidane was a ballboy in Marseille, this makes more sense.I wank. Cheers! -- Teuv 22:26, 17 Dec 2004 (UTC)
---Add any additional comments on the "Requested move" below this line ---
Common ENGLISH usage. Using www.google.co.uk (which differentiates between words with and without diacritics:
At the moment because of the lack of the name without diacritics the English Wikipedia article will not show up on a Google search in many English speaking countries. If the page stays where it is this can be fixed, but if it is moved to the French spelling the page is unlikely to keep the name "Zinedine Zidane" which is the common English spelling Philip Baird Shearer 21:10, 14 Mar 2005 (UTC)
Zinédine Zidane redirects to Zinedine Zidane, so I don't suppose it matters, especially since there seems to be some debate about whether English or French should be preferred. As long as one redirects to the other, I'm neither for nor against. Seem a bit like a game of semantics to me. In fact, I didn't even know his name had a ´ until now. -- Ben davison 21:58, 14 Mar 2005 (UTC)
It was requested that this article be renamed but there was no consensus for it to be moved. violet/riga (t) 09:45, 20 Mar 2005 (UTC)
Several remarks. The accent should not be there at all, his name is Zinedine (pronounced Zin-din as previously noted. The accent is an invention of French journalists. Second, also as someone noted before, he is not English, but he is not Arab either, he is Berber. The transliteration of his name into Arabic at the beginning of the entry is not just unnecessary, it is plain wrong. There is absolutely no justification for it. Names in his parents' homeland, Algeria, are not registered in Arabic but in the Roman script and cannot change, except by presidential decree (a legacy of French colonial rule). The name therefore is Zinedine Zidane and cannot be anything else in Roman or any other script. Kusyel.
Take that nonsense off about what the Italian said. It hasnt been proven yet. First he called him a terrorista now he insulted his family...blah blah blah. Also, I love the article makes it seem like Zidane was just listening to him. It's obvious as hell that they were jarring back and forth. So your telling me that Zidane invited him for a tour of his vineyard and Matterazi said your mother is a terrorist whore???? The way it is written has obvious favoritism towards Zidane. July 11, 2006
It is inaccurate (or POV) to claim that Zidane is currently regarded as the best player in the world, as he does not hold the FIFA World Player of the Year award, nor is he being considered for the award in 2005. Obviously a three-time winner deserves his credit, thus I will change these statements to past tense if there are no objections. Karma Heretic 04:57, 6 December 2005 (UTC)
There are no accents in this name in French (do a google search on "prenom Zinedine" and you'll see....). The accent comes from journalists who mispronounce this name, which should be pronounced "Zindin". The accent should be changed in the article. Musikfabrik 16:57, 28 February 2006 (UTC)
As he is of Moroccan descent, Zidane's name is of Arabic origin (زين الدين زيدان). As such, its CORRECT pronunciation is the Arabic one which, when reflected onto the Anglo-Saxon language, is pronounced: "Zin-al'deen Zidaane" —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 70.48.14.126 ( talk • contribs) 22:36, 8 July 2006 (UTC).
Zin al- Deen means the "Ornament of Religion" Zin= Ornament (or Zein) and "Al Deen" means of the religion. Erpals 01:21, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
Can someone please put more pictures of Zidane? There's only one picture over his profile. The article will look better with more pictures. Zarif 17:15, 20 April 2006 (UTC)
Here are some-more
Wasn't Zidane also part of some club whose name began with US before joining Cannes?
Nothing says he is Muslim, and naming his children christian names is on contradiction with describing him as "devout Muslim".
When he played for Juventus I remember in a TV interview he said that he said the Ayat al-Kursi before each game.
I am not sure what you would consider a Muslim name. Not all Muslims give their children Arabic names, in North Africa many people give their children Berber names that have no connection to Islam or the Koran, and in Turkey a lot if not most people have pre-Islamic Turkic names. Furthermore he didn't give his Children "Christian" names, he named them after his favorite footballers.
Zidane describes himself as a "non-practicing Muslim", which countless Muslims would describe themselves as, including myself. Not practicing does not equate to not practicing anything, and definitely does not equate to not believing. Further, his status as a Muslim is mentioned in countless articles because it is *notable*, being a controversial minority in France. This is evidenced by Salman Rushdie's quote: "[Zidane] has done more to improve France's attitude toward its Muslim minority.. than a thousand political speeches." Finally, players of a minority are referred to in every context, including, for example, Danish Kaneria's status as a Hindu on Pakistan's national team. If a Christian/Jew played for Turkey, his religion would be cited in any biography, whether he was practicing or not. I believe this controversy boils down to personal feelings towards Islam, and these should always be left out of Wikipedia. -- Afinebalance 01:38, 3 July 2006 (UTC)
I would also like to add that naming one's children non-Muslim names is not a contradiction of their beliefs, as Islam has no laws on what names should be chosen, as long as the meaning is positive. -- Afinebalance 01:38, 3 July 2006 (UTC)
Not relevant, he does not partake in public religious activity, lobbying ,etc. Blnguyen | rant-line 03:53, 3 July 2006 (UTC)
First, what is "public religious activity" and "lobbying"?! Give me a break. He is quoted as calling himself a non-practicing MUSLIM. Once again, like I said, his position as a minority player is what is notable, not the religion itself. Religion would not be cited for any Saudi/Turkish/Tunisian players for example. -- Afinebalance 14:26, 3 July 2006 (UTC)
Wow. So Muslim athletes use their public position to promote Islam or they're not *really* Muslim? These assumptions hint at the platform some individuals are really standing on. I also still fail to see how this refutes the fact that he has *descended from a Muslim family*, which is all that is being referred to. There are countless articles across all mediums that refer to him as a Muslim, he himself is quoted as saying he is a Muslim, he has said in a TV interview that he prays a surah from the Qur'an before every match. Having said that, this is all overshadowed by the fact that it is his *STATUS* as a Muslim, not necessarily his degree of "Muslimness", that is important and notable, given the political climate of France throughout his playing career. This has been noted by several authorative articles for reasons that even illogical people would find hard to deny. -- Afinebalance 01:36, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
Why is his religion referred to in countless articles? Because it is a notable status that he carries, being a superstar in a Western country who's descended from a minority group. He does not have to do anything. I'm not sure you folks know how an encyclopedia works, but it attempts to collect as many facts as possible. Zidane descending from a Kabyle Muslim family is a fact. Zidane's quote as a "non-practicing Muslim" is a fact (referred to later in the article, which has ironically remained untouched). Why don't you take out the Kabyle part as well since he doesn't promote his ethnicity either? There are many, many arenas on the internet for you to take out your feelings towards Islam, please do not include Wikipedia in them. -- Afinebalance 02:03, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
Are Sikhism or Islam in India contentious issues? No, they're quite common. The story is quite different in France, regardless of the statistics. At the same time, Danish Kaneria's and Yousuf Youhana's (former) religions have been documented repeatedly since they are not common. I recommend you read the LA Times article on Zidane from June 4, 2006 [http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/commentary/la-op-rotella04jun04,0,7920995.story?coll=la-news-comment-opinions] (I'm sure it's discussed much more in French columns) to get an idea of why Zidane's background is important, at the very LEAST notable, in the context of Muslims in France.
At the end of the day we must ask ourselves: "Is this a fact?" Yes. "If it's a fact, is it notable enough to include relative to the amount of space it takes?" It only requires one word, so I would say yes. It does not refer to how "Muslim" he is, it simply refers to his background. Given these simple points and the passion from some to get rid of it (mainly AFTER he had his monster game against Brazil, how pathetic).. how can individuals NOT be seen (or mistaken) as Islamophobes? -- Afinebalance 02:41, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
It is ironic that you raise the point about France being secular, as this is a major reason for the controversy that currently exists in France. The sheer content on the Islam in France page gives a hint at what I'm talking about, as it is quite longer than most "Islam in.." pages. For the sake of staying on topic, the importance of Zidane's *status* as a Muslim in France has been referred to by one of the most infamous (or famous) anti-Islamic writers of our times, Salman Rushdie.. and it's almost a shame that I must use him as backup in order to make a simple point: it is notable. -- Afinebalance 02:58, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
How am I obviously wrong? Are the countless articles that refer to Zidane as a Muslim written by writers who have gone "mad"? You fail to acknowledge the basic rule of an encyclopedia, which is including any *notable facts*. I don't think you've even bothered to read my arguments for including it, or you're just unable to respond to them. I do know I'm not going to bother repeating the details. You may have a bad understanding of the english language but I'm going to repeat this once more: this refers to the background he has DESCENDED from, and a background which has unquestionably impacted the way he is looked upon by many Muslims and non-Muslims alike. It is a fact that not even you can deny. -- Afinebalance 04:44, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
I think Blnguyen's solution is sensible - I think it's interesting enough to inclusion in the article, but that's now how most people define Zidane. He is a professioinal footballer first and foremost, and he's not a Beckham-like figure with a visible off-field life. A sentence in the "Personal life" section should suffice. It should not be mentioned in the first paragraph, let alone the first sentence. Ytny 06:12, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
...If you do a Google search on "zidane muslim," you will find many articles saying Zidane is a "devout Muslim." Yet, the interview (the link of which has expired, by the way), states he is a "non-practicing Muslim"? 24.23.219.122 08:12, 8 July 2006 (UTC)
Let me tell you what I first thought of Zidane when I read the Personal Life section of Zinedine Zidane. The only description that describes about his religion is "Zidane describes himself as a 'non-practising Muslim'". And so, my first impression was that Zidane 'does not practise as a Muslim'???. How terrible I felt when I read through this Discussion Page & found out that the fact that Zidane is a Muslim was not even addressed. So, who's actually causing this misleading statement that gave a huge misperception about Zidane's religion? This must be corrected & not to be ignored as it is a clear FACT that Zidane is a Muslim, regardless of how is his level of practising it. Once a Muslim, you die as a Muslim for as long as you did not 'desert from being a Muslim'. The way that the Personal Life section was written is just too short (with no elaboration whatsoever of the phrase 'non-practising Muslim') to give an overall information of Zidane's life as a Muslim. Someone who can edit this section hopefully can quote Zidane himself as quoted as saying he is a Muslim, where he has said in a TV interview that he prays a surah from the Qur'an before every match. And not to forget to quote all that he ever said when being asked about his religion or his practises as a Muslim. Once quoted all these statement from Zidane himself, it would be self explanatory for people to know the whole truth about Zidane's religion. I'm begging for the whole truth to be revealed. I trust wikipedia as a credible source of information & I feel that I need to contribute & do my part to correct anything which was not rightly written or addressed. Regards. 60.49.37.146 13:36, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
The level of practice that Zidane "appears" to be at has nothing to do with anything. Many people don’t know that David Chappelle is a Muslim. And if they do then they think he is “un-practicing”. These people have their reasons for not being very public about their faith, weather they are good or bad ones. I mean I saw Dave Chappele with my own eyes, he was on the same flight as me from new york JFK to JEDDA – Saudi arabia. I later saw him in medina too. I can give dozens of witnesses and articles too. And the issue of naming is blasphemous. During the times of the prophet Muhammad s, when people converted, they didn’t change their names to so called “islamic names”. Chineese muslims name their kids chineese names ect. Back to Zidane, It is a very important fact that he is muslim, it breaks stereotypes, improves muslims status in the eyes of lay-people (although I dunno after overtime...) and shows diversity. In the grand scheme of things, something that represents a competition of the whole world , the world cup is embodied by Zidane, a Muslim. A billion Muslims, other then the crazy ones, can feel connected. “That guy is a muslim” and can be proud rather than ashamed of their faith. That is huge.--
Xe8 3061
19:17, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
JH: The intro to this article should describe Zidane as a "French Muslim football player." I think it's ridiculous his religion is being purposely left out... and I'd also like to state that I think it's unsatisfactory if it's noted anywhere other than the top of the article. One needs only compare him to the great Hank Greenberg who is described in his article as a "Jewish American" baseball player. Greenberg wasn't particularly religious either but was extremely popular with the Jewish American community during his time (see The Life and Times of Hank Greenberg, VHS '99). -- 69.110.231.237 09:03, 12 July 2006 (UTC)JH
Thank you, JH. Most articles in any encyclopedia offer comments like "african american baseball player", "native american runner" "muslim scientist" "jewish director". The assumption being that if you are not of the majority, it is a worth while fact, otherwise we tend to assume you are the majority (whatever that majority be.) One does not have to advocate one's religion for it to be of note. It's not even important that the majority of the people *know* one's religion or background for it to be of note. I just learned from a Zidane link, that Edith Piaf is also berber. This is why one turns to an encyclopedia.--
Kipruss3
19:44, 12 July 2006 (UTC)
I redirected "Zidane" here and made a disamb page cos the other Zidane was nobody. Skinnyweed 00:48, 21 May 2006 (UTC)
There are now 4 Zidane's listed on the disambig page, 3 real people and the FFIX character. This page should have the usual "Zidane redirects here. For other uses, see Zidane_(disambiguation)" text at the top. M0ffx 11:41, 23 June 2006 (UTC)
In the lead section, instead of using peacock terms like 'top footballer', 'elite', 'genius', 'magician' - why not simply state that he's been tha FIFA World Player of the Year three times? The guidelines are pretty clear on this. Eixo 14:23, 28 May 2006 (UTC)
This article needs serious clean up, not only is thier a lack of references, but its make ourageous claims, such as bieng the best plyer of this genration and the of all time. The third and fourth paragraphs, are just as bad, from the claims that he was the best of the real madrid team, by reputation alone, to claims that its due to his abscence that France, exited the world cup. Another tag of weasel words will also be put up. Very misleading article. ( 212.219.97.7 11:48, 16 June 2006 (UTC))
Agree with above person. Statements like "Zidane is often considered to be the best footballer of his generation [citation needed] , and one of the greatest footballers of all time", "one of the game's finest artists", and the France 2002 losing because of him are suspect. Skinnyweed 20:54, 17 June 2006 (UTC)
I've done a basic clean-up, removing a lot of the gushing about what an amazing player etc. Some still remains, though it is generally accapted that Zidane is "one of the game's finest artists". The Arabic translation of the name remains, though perhaps it should be gone as there doesn't seem to be any justification for it.
I don't know what to do with this paragraph: "Zidane is one of the football icons of his generation and is known to be modest, quiet and self-admittedly shy. As a Guardian feature article says, however, Zidane also has occasional flashes of aggression on the pitch. One such display of aggression occurred when Zidane was red carded for headbutting Jochen Kientz in a 2000/2001 Champions League match for Juventus against Hamburger SV. He also stamped on a player in the 1998 World Cup and received a straight red card." It is currently under "legacy", which does not seem right, and the mention of the stamping incident is a repetition. Beev 23:06, 1 July 2006 (GMT)
I've cleaned up some of the article; also moving the final game section to the club career section; seems to fit better there. -- Dococ23 18:11, 3 July 2006 (UTC)
Let's agree to remove the disambig info, just because somebody has the same last name as somebody doesn't mean they deserve a redirect on that person's page, especially not for a minor fictor character. Should an article on Alan Jones have a disambig for all people sharing the name Jones? Mackan 03:45, 18 June 2006 (UTC)
The vast majority of people typing Zidane into a wikipedia search will be looking for Zinedine, thus it is sensible for Zidane to redirect here. However since a few may looking for others, the {{ redirect}} tag, that Muchness has just added, is sensible. M0ffx 11:59, 23 June 2006 (UTC)
I was wondering if someone could put his place of birth at the very beginning at the aritcle, so people wanting to quickly check his place of birth don't have to look hard.
68.78.137.203 ( talk • contribs) added He is ALGERIAN to the bottom of the first paragraph, which I reverted. I have no knowledge of the player, so I am moving the comment here for further discussion. -- TeaDrinker 21:12, 23 June 2006 (UTC) He is a dual national French and Algerian. As a French born person of Algerian parentage he is entitled to both nationalities and under Algerian law, he cannot lose his Algerian nationality. Kusyel.
i read earlier that he was of kurdish decent...........his middle name is an anchient kurdish religion what happen to that phrase why was it takin out? just wondering?
It was claimed that Platini is "the best French player of all time" in Platini's page.. Ofcourse, Platini is a great player, but the claim seems abit dated. Shouldn't this goes to Zidane, since if some recent basis exits, his 3 trophies of best player of the year, many of his peers testomonies, UEFA Golden Jubilee Poll are just few sources .. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UEFA_Golden_Jubilee_Poll -- 86.16.113.121
ZXCZXC
There is no point talking about who is "the best" as this will always be strictly POV. Platini's page says he is "arguably the best French player of all time", which is probably quite a fair statement, though it might be more accurate to say "he is considered to be one of the best French players of all time". Of course, the same could be said about Zidane, and it would be accurate to say the same thing about both players.
"Zidane is often considered to be the best footballer of his generation" -- I think this statement in the opening paragraph of Zidane's article is seriously pushing the boundaries of impartiality. It's based an article which is full of praise for Zidane, in the same way that such articles always praise their subject. The author has clearly gathered together a small amount of evidence to support his view, and does not present any other possible alternative views. Not entirely convincing. Beev
Should we add anything in the trivia about Zidane's trademark move? Did he even invent it himself?
hmm. yes and no. didnt Maradona do a similar thing..? im not too sure maybe someone can look into it. Or he has his own style of Maradona's move. im really not sure so dont flame me for being confused :P
^yea good point. he does it so smoothly. i would support it if it was added.
If the time says 26:32 for example, they're in the 27th minute, not the 26th. That's was the case with the goal against Portugal, it was the 33rd minute, not the 32nd Soxrock 19:54, 5 July 2006 (UTC)
This has two possible problems so I removed the description of the player's birth place: Firstly, it seems to be conjecture if no link is provided with decent evidence to demonstrate the point (specifically about the area La Castellane). Secondly, and (academically unless it is re-inserted by someone)I am prepared to take the flak on this - 'hardscrabble' is not, in my opinion, a well recognised adjective to non US English speakers. I'm British and I had to guess the meaning from the context so I would imagine non-native English speakers would have more trouble. He is a joy to watch though as I am sure all the contributors will agree. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 84.92.214.41 ( talk • contribs) 00:31, 9 July 2006 (UTC).
I'm in the US and I have never heard anything like "hardscrabble" before either. For the sake of curiousity, could someone please define it?
RSimione
03:13, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
That was my edit (always forgetting password). Sorry, I assumed it was a US word as it appears in answers.com as: hard·scrab·ble (härd'skrăb'əl) adj. Earning a bare subsistence, as on the land; marginal: the sharecropper's hardscrabble life.
Stop all of this illiterate comments, no need to keep stressing on this event. Zinedine Zidane is a wonderful player and I believe there is no one, absolutely no one who can play as close to how he does. He is a very gentle, calm and kind person. He was *provoked* and that's all; that is why that incident happened.
Put yourselves in his place, what would you have done if someone tried to insult your mother (the one who gave birth and raised you from the day you were born)? What would you have done if you hear such torrid and dirty talking about your elders? For me, I would have killed that bastard!! I am very proud of Zinedine Zidane. He deserves much much more than a world cup.
"Nothing is more valuable than a mother, not even a world cup"...
So, I feel proud of you Zinedine. You remain and will always remain the best ever player I have ever seen on this planet throughout my entire life! God bless you.
I think this need to be locked. I can see that there is alot of people that likes Zidane career, but this is getting too anoying to see that people thinks that what Zidane did in reaction to cursing words. Its wrong to protect Zidane for his action and bash on Materazzi. Both are wrong, but words are said on every game, and violence is not accepted. What does mean for your "FAIR PLAY" campaign that FIFA wanted for this cup? What Zidane done was worst than anything that Materazzi said, lets accept this, its a fact. Fungos Bauux 14:05, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
Sure, some might think that Zinedine Zidane's reaction to Materazzi's insult was not handled the right way? As far as I am concerned, I have followed Zidane's career through the years, and in my opinion, he was a really calm and quiet person. Not only that, but there was an extreme amount of pressure on Zidane. First, he was injured in the shoulder, and that caused him to suffer a lot in the game. second, he was becoming frustrated because of their teams' playing. He attempted to score on the Italians a few times but failed. All of this built a lot of pressure on him. Finally, when Materazzi, and his insultive manners got to Zidane, he was just frustrated, mad, and confused. He could not take any more and he just let Materazzi have it. As far as I am concerned, this is the only physical attack that Zidane attempted in his career. Personally, I am proud of Zidane for doing what he thought was suitable. After all of this, the French people were still proud of what he did. I really don't care if you don't like what I wrote but this is my opinion and this is what a lot of people around the world think as well. By the way, the GIF image does not work on Imageshack and stuff. Put it on a real sharing website such as rapidshare.de . After that, include the GIF image link to rapidshare so we can download it. if you don't wanna do that, then just host it on a website of one of yours.
I don't dispute the red card, it's standard procedure for violent play. But I want to know what Materazzi said that would have provoked Zizou to do what he did. Nobody's really seen something like that from Zizou since the Saudi incident. It's like Zizou in 1989, fresh off the streets of Marseille. Doesn't verbal assault warrant a yellow card? I would have been happy if Materazzi got some off-field sanction for playing dirty. I also agree with Domenech. Although I was fully in support of Italy during their match versus Germany, I was ashamed at the fragility they showed by rolling on the ground without having been touched by any Germans. Seriously, stop shaming football like that. Trtskh 04:20, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
Someone replace the animated gif with a static image... it's utterly annoying to see the same loop repeated over and over again, and links to videos are at the bottom. -mrbartjens 00:29, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
I think this needs to be included in Zidane's page eventually. I saw someone added it before but it was considered vandalizing. That's some of the worst I've ever seen in a world cup and coming from Zidane of all players! The only worse I've ever seen in soccer is the compilation of soccer fights they have at Youtube, just search soccer fights and you'll know what I mean. It's notable fights over the past few years done to "Fight Music" by D-12
Including the headbutt is fine but the stuff in the "Legacy" section is a little over the top.
i agree that we should add the headbutt incident, people need to be informed. -- Zaid Ibrahim 21:52, 9 July 2006 (UTC)
The above statement is just plain wrong. Zidane is known to the world as a footballer. His football career is the reason this article exists. How that career ended should be in the summary opening paragraphs, as those paragraphs should outline his career.
I'm a zidane fan myself. But we can't let loyalty to him overcome good editing! The ending of his career was a shoking, notable event. It deserves to be put into the end of the opening paragraphs. -- Wikipediastar 21:18, 9 July 2006 (UTC)
Just my opinion: Zidane won´t be most remembered for his actions at the World Cup 98 but for this disgraceful end of his career. I think it should be included at the beginning of the article.
Don't you think that video showing the headbutt is a little extreme and ridiculous? I think it should be removed.
Zidanes headbutt did nothing but to cement how much of a badass he was. Not only did he just headbutt Materazzi (remember he scored the equaliser) he didn't come back to collect his medal. Comradeash 21:23, 9 July 2006 (UTC)
Nah, I strongly disagree, just take Eric Cantona for instance, he has done far worse and nothing is mentioned in the first paragraph. This is just one match on hundreds Zidane has played.
Apparantly he is also the first person to be thrown out of the game during overtime during a world cup final. Just thought it might be significant.
to be fair for years to come if u mention his name people will think of the headbutt. Millions worldwide will have seen it. He was representing his country in the world cup final. A football fan will remember him as an awesome footballer who let himslef down in that game. A non-fan will purely remember the headbutt. It looks fine as is now and edits in reference to the headbutt should be added when there is more information. If they investigated the Rooney stamp they will certainly investigate this.
SenorKristobbal
22:33, 9 July 2006 (UTC)
This man is a legend.... I just saw him destroy his legend by headbutting an Italian clean in the chest. This is Incredible! (incredibly bad)-- 81.152.13.190 20:22, 9 July 2006 (UTC)
i dont understand why he of all people would do that... 71.254.210.160 20:26, 9 July 2006 (UTC)
Absolutely horrible.-- 156.34.30.141 20:27, 9 July 2006 (UTC)
What the hell did Materazzi say to him!?!?
Apparently that idiot Materazzi twisted his left nipple and it irked Zidane.
oh my god...i am so disappointed.
SUCKER HEADBUTT FOR THE FUCKING WIN!!!! Zidane>ALL.
video of the headbutting: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NBV52GPhNjw&feature=Recent&page=6&t=t&f=b
video of materazzi doing all sorts of nasty stuff: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EpG4AHlZrL4&search=Materazzi
I don't think Zidan's headbutt was that big a deal. It wasn't as bad as Rooney's stomp. And if Zidane was trying to hurt the guy, he would have hit him in the face. [He totally deserved the red card though]
-Rooney's stomp hardly looked intentional. Zidane was PISSED, straight headbutted him in the CHEST.
~If Zidane didn't want to hurt him, then headbutting him in the chest was a pretty odd thing to do.
the french president gave him a "presidential rebuke" for that. he said, "i regret that the most "beautiful" sportsman in our country doesn't have the most beautiful moral quality". i think it is still important to highlight this. however, the french people still support him, in the champs élysées in paris, the ppl are chanting "merci zizou zizou zizou" and "merci les bleus". it seems that he is still highly regarded by the french people. watch TF1 for more information -- Zaid Ibrahim 21:49, 9 July 2006 (UTC)
the corrupt french president talkng about morals..LOL!!...Materazzi is a disgrace and I hope this incident brings some attention to name calling on the pitch...It must have been something very personal to make zidane react in this way....and after his great career , I would hardly think that this incident (headbutting a big-mouth Italian) will be the most famous lasting memory of him..
ZIDANE'S DESERVED RED CARD ALLOW ITALY TO WIN IN PKs. If Zidane was there then they wouldn't have missed one!
this needs to be removed: Ultimately, Zidane will be remembered for the numerous disgraceful antics throughout his career. The world cup sendings off and general disgrace to football. The French player will be remembered for having fantastic skill and poise but, more often than not, a lack of end product and ultimate disappointment. Overrated by many of his contemporaries, history will see this cheat sidelined as no more than an accessory to his relatively few achievements. -- 74.65.173.130 21:24, 9 July 2006 (UTC)
It does not explain his actions, but Materazzi was at fault as well. He provoked Zidane verbally and this bone head move was retaliation.
Norum 09.07.2006
Materazzi got WTFPWNED by Zidane. Then Zidane got WTFPWNED by the referee, possibly costing his team the game. Seems fair to me :-D Cyde↔Weys 21:30, 9 July 2006 (UTC)
It may have been due to the fact that player was holding him back. Some have said - This should be an encyclopedia and then we read this!!! I think it should be removed as long as there no objectif source. -- Jangli 21:46, 9 July 2006 (UTC)
The itallian player instigated the whole thing by pinching zidane's nipple. Of course a badass like Zidane is going to headbutt you in the chest, it really should come as no suprise to anyone. In fact,Zidane's personal motto is "A pinch of the nipple deserves a headbutt to the chest, unless you're a chick, then its cool." That player was most certainly NOT a chick.
someone needs to explain why zidane headbutted that italian guy -- Zaid Ibrahim 21:55, 9 July 2006 (UTC)
I think someone should consider removing or at least editing the sentence at the end of the introduction that suggests that Zidane's legacy "might be tarnished" as a result of the headbutt. This is an encyclopedia, and we are not prognosticators. Let's leave time for a little perspective to sink in and let history, not a bunch of overzealous football fans with way too much emotional involvement right now, decide. fyfh99 22:43, 9 July 2006 (UTC)
Personally I think link to images and/or videos of the headbutt are relevant. It might be a low point in his career but that does not mean it did not happen. It is also especially relevant since there was a lot of talk about this match being his final international appearance and for him to be thrown out of the match IS a notable event. sikander 21:57, 9 July 2006 (UTC)
I think it should stay for a couple of weeks at least, and then removed when the story dies down. -- Burgas00 22:11, 9 July 2006 (UTC)
Perhaps the Rooney stamping incident should be included. Either way, in such an important game, especially as it was his last, it should be included. Only by watching the clip can one understand how malicious the incident was.
A simple image is fine in this case. An image of an event can be used in this article since it is impossible to go back in time and get a free one. I know you all love this guy but the image has to stay.-- God Ω War 22:52, 9 July 2006 (UTC) Headbutt Image
Seeing that link to the image of the headbutt incident, I think someone should include a link to this video http://www.youtube.com/w/Zidane-(El-Placer-De-Mira)?v=H9sL_mfrFcw&search=zidane , just to be fair to the guy, who is undoubtedly one of the best football players who have ever lived -- 82.126.244.242 23:15, 9 July 2006 (UTC)vug
No, to be fair to the guy we would need to see the whole sequence of events along with what was said. Zidane and the guy are talking, Zidane starts to walk away, and then something happens to make Zidane turn around and head butt the guy. Is this anymore shaming that his other displays of anger? Punched a guy with AS Cannes, head butted Jochen Kientz in champions league match, stomped on a Saudian Arabian player in 1998 world cups. http://www.kabyles.com/article.php3?id_article=2271 My respect for him has not lessened. He is a very passionate player and is intensely loyal to his roots and his people. You can see after the heat of the moment that he regretted his actions. Sometimes these things happen. -- Barnetto 00:35, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
There are a lot of wikipedians who aren't frequent editors who decided to take part in this article purely due to the headbutt. I think the best thing to do is keep it as it is with small bits about the headbutt and in a couple of weeks a new discussion with the wikipedians who are still around to decide how the article should address the headbutt in the long term. SenorKristobbal 23:20, 9 July 2006 (UTC)
I would like to change a word in the last sentence of the first paragraph, from "controversy" to "ignominy". Is that OK? Mwinog2777 23:43, 9 July 2006 (UTC)
Lol,why vandelism,I don't see anything wrong. And yet some wiki-idiot screwed it up,Oh,well.
Oh wait,there is. There's the phrase FORZA AZUR written like that in all caps....anyone loves to have fun here.
Please someone remove the FORZA AZZURRI!!!!!!!!!! It's really awfull that we can keep this site serious.
An animated gif is really necesary? I think you guys are acting like a newspaper. I dont see any gif with he's champions league goal to win the cup or with any of the two 1998 goals against brazil in the final. This play is not representative of his career, i dont see this as an enciclopedia entry but a tabloid one. I hope in two weaks that gif is gone.
ATTENTION: Do you have the RIGHTS on the television snapshot to post it here?
What's going on? Somebody comes here asking PLEASE PLEASE and you guys put the gif back up? Seriously?
if anyone is interested, i have placed a video of this incident on youtube -- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yOGL9y-ggVU
feel free to use if you feel it is revalant.
He's been sent off 14 times, e.g. stamping on a Saudi player in the 1998 World Cup; headbutting Jochen Kientz of Hamburg SV in the Champions League. Great player but sadly the end was fairly typical of the career.
There's no need for an animation or a picture of the headbutt. I think that it's irrelevant, especially considering the length of this article. Zidane is mostly known from his excellent playing skills, not from his sometimes quick temper. Of course the incident should be mentioned in the article but a gif would be exaggeration. Or if there would be a gif of the headbutt, then there should be at least five gifs of some of his best moments on the field. Windtalker 18:45, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
Why would you remove that animation? I loved it... at least post it here or on the article... I thought the whole thing was awesome... I think it is a great way to end his career fighting against racist pigs. Nice. Erpals 4:47, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
Stop changeing the info about why he did it. Why does it matter why he headbutted the Italian player. If he's so sensitive to cost his team a world cup, maybe he's not the great player his fans tout him as. Mental stability is part of being a great athlete. Do you see Lance Armstrong get off his bike after being SPIT on by German fans to headbutt them? No, he continues on to victory. Sticks and stones and all that.
Why does everbody discuss here why Zidane did this headbutt? This is an encyclopedia, not a forum. I think a reference to this headbutt is part of it... but not the allegations that are done to it... except if anyone can proove something serious. I found sources citing he said "terrorist", insulted his family, insulting his relgion... and so on. So if nobody knows, why put it in an encyclopedia? Just lets leave it there. --
Jangli
22:44, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
Zidane was one of the best soccer players alive, he can do magic with his feet. Anyone who watches soccer can appreciate his skills and abilities. On the other hand, Materazzi is not a football player, he is a scumbag or at best a gangster off the street of Rome in my opinion. He does not play soccer, he was hired by the Italian team to injure and disable the opponents' players so that the team had an advantage to win. Without the dirty tactics, the Italian team wouldn't even make it to the final. If you don't trust me see for yourself in this video [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ImAjXdTKfjg&mode=related&search=Materazzi] & [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7HblsV-urHg] it is a compilation of how this guy plays. Notice how he aims his kicks at other players' knees, back, chest, and face. He is malicious and evil. I could not believe he wasn't banned from playing soccer at all. I believe the racial slur was just the last straw that broke Zidane's camel back. The World Cup final was shown around the world to a billion TV viewers. The truth will come out whether you believe the proof or not. I feel sorry for Zidane that such a top rank world class champion would sacraficed his chance to win the trophy just because of this scumbag. It was a mistake he may regret, but that headbutt was well done. I am not French nor Italian, I just gave me opinion as an observer. Italy won the trophy without honor. Shame on Italy. Kowloonese 04:58, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
People keep demonizing Materazzi and claiming he "provoked" Zidane. Yet, this could simply have been a mutual exchange of obscenities or what Materazzi said could have been provoked by something Zidane said or did. There is no proof to substanitate anything at this point and any opinion or theory is baseless and most likely based on biases in favour of one team or one player over another. However, Zidane is not the calm, cool, and collected player his fans claim him to be. He has often exploded into spontaneous acts of violence including headbutts and stomping on players with a clear attempt to injure. While Zidane may have been a great player, albeit perhaps a bit overrated, his legacy as a violent offender will probably be remembered alongside his accomplishments. His headbutt to Materazzi was just one in a long list of Zidane offences. To suggest Zidane cost France the World Cup, however, is ridiculous. He was inneffective all game except for the PK and a header that Buffon stopped. Had Zidane taken a PK he may have missed. Certainly, Trezeguet still would have taken a PK and missed. Italy are deserving of their win and it should have actually come in regular time as France's PK came as a result of a clear dive by the French player and Italy did score a second goal which was called offside even though the player who scored was onside and the offside player was passive/inactive; numerous goals have been allowed to stand when this has been the case.
I know by this I sound completely ignorant, selfish, childish, etc., but that's the least of my concern right now. I love Zidane and by him getting sent off with a red card has just put Materazzi as my personal sworn enemy. I cried when I sat there on the floor, watching Zidane walking out of the field. That's just so sad! Is it true that the Italian guy did that to Zidane's nipple?? Disgusting! And what about that lip-reading translation? Is it correct? Why, France could have won!!! 202.73.122.227 10:01, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
The head-butt incident is, as expected, receiving quite a bit of attention globally. But I wonder why Zidane's page needs to have all the up-to-the-minute information? Why don't we wait a few days to see what is concluded from the episode and then put some a short description of the incident. I strongly disagree in having such a large section (in comparison to the rest of the article) for the 2006 world cup and this incident. syim 18:14, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
There's been made a game out of the headbutting incident: http://www.hyggestedet.dk/index.asp?game=zidane Have fun ;)
hey, man that Zidane headbutting incident was ridiculous even if the italian guy (matzioni or something) said something to him all ya gotta do is ignore it, not headbutt him like a child
will of vacnouver
Oh yes... the headbutt incident is now an apparent YTMND fad. It is appropriate to add this in the article?
KnucklesEchidna
11:41, 12 July 2006 (UTC)
I think this headbutt thing might be overused in this article, last I checked there were three pictures, two of the headbutt incident. One of the images I can see why it should be there, but should it really be used as the main pic?
I'm suggesting that the headbutt issue with regards to Zinedine Zidane be moved to a seperate section, where entire transcripts of interviews with Zidane and Materazzi, as well as attempts by lip readers to decipher what was said on the pitch could be documented in full. At least we know that a few lip readers got it right, with their transcriptions tallying with Zidane's latest interview. r4ge 11:27, 13 July 2006 (UTC)
Head butted for the win, france fails yet again
The Daily Mail and several other sources have stated that the remarks were a racial slur based on some lip reader that they apparently hired. I have seen it slightly differently in different sources, but if we can find what the original was, I think its worthy of inclusion. As this is a current event and details can change rapidly, we should be careful to attribute this specifically. Here's the link: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=395046&in_page_id=1770 savidan (talk) (e@) 04:17, 12 July 2006 (UTC)
> On August 12, 2004, after France's performance in the Euro 2004, losing to eventual winners Greece, Zidane retired from international football.
This should say "losing to eventual winner Greece" or something like that. Unless football is really special and single teams are treated in the plural, which really makes no sense -- but hey, sports are strange.
> On July 9th, 2006, Zidane became one of only four footballers to achieved the feat of scoring in two different World Cup final matches
"to" is supposed to operate with infinitive form words (achieve), not conjugated ones (achieved).
that said, a lot of the "prose" in this article leaves an editor to be desired.
21:07, 9 July 2006 (UTC)
-- Sports teams and similar can be spoken about both in plurar and singular.
Take that nonsense off about what the Italian said. It hasnt been proven yet. First he called him a terrorista now he insulted his family...blah blah blah. Also, I love the article makes it seem like Zidane was just listening to him. It's obvious as hell that they were jarring back and forth. So your telling me that Zidane invited him for a tour of his vineyard and Matterazi said your mother is a terrorist whore???? The way it is written has obvious favoritism towards Zidane.
---
-Anyways ya sry that was me that was vandilizing, thought i think some of my info should stay up there, but i totaly agree if you want to remove the whole pwned chest plate thing.-
There seem to be various "new members" or IPs coming in here confusing this talk page with a forum. Wikipedia talk pages are not forums and they shouldn't be. Please leave your feelings about the match at the door and only talk about content relevant to improving the article. If this continues I'll ask an administrator to semi-protect this page.-- Jersey Devil 00:25, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
That's entirely correct. There are plenty of chatboards where any man can go and say whatever he pleases. This page is only for discussion about the article. I am an old man, and an American; I know nothing and care less about soccer. I can and will act with complete impartiality to remove any off-topic commentary unrelated to the editing of this page. Tom Harrison Talk 01:27, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
Hah.. funny. thanks for keeping it on the Talk page, too. Kether83 02:31, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
Who removed all of the external links? Zeeg 06:22, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
Currently, the text is as follows:
"Despite this [The Headbutt], on July 10, 2006, Zidane was awarded the Golden Ball"
This is intentionally misleading. It should be added that - though the Golden Ball was announced on the 10th - it was voted for *BEFORE* the Headbutt (ie, during Halftime) and, as such, it was not awarded _despite_ the offense, but rather _before_ the offense. 83.132.98.175 13:19, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
Actually, the voting schedule for the Golden Ball was changed. In 2002, voting was done up to half-time of the final match; this was changed so that voting reflected all 64 games played this year. [http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2006/soccer/specials/world_cup/2006/07/06/bc.eu.spt.soc.wcup.fifa.ap/index.html] -- Madchester 14:34, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
This is a minor point, but an editor has been rewording the article to say that voting for the Golden Ball was close. Per WP:OR, an edit counts as original research if "it introduces an analysis or synthesis of established facts, ideas, opinions, or arguments in a way that builds a particular case favored by the editor, without attributing that analysis or synthesis to a reputable source"
That is the case here, because the editor is interpreting the facts without citing a reference to support the interpretation. If a reliable source cannot be found that characterizes the voting as close, we should simply state the result of the ballot as reported in the referenced article. -- Muchness 08:27, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
There were rumors of a slur causing Zidane to lose his cool in '98.[http://football.guardian.co.uk/worldcup2006/comment/story/0,,1816900,00.html] However, as noted here, there has been no suggestion of that for the 2006 incident yet.[http://football.guardian.co.uk/worldcup2006/story/0,,1816934,00.html] I changed this in the Trivia section. If anyone has something that says otherwise, please reference it. Vickser 14:32, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
I also noticed that the slur was mentioned in the final game section. There's no article cited that says that, so I've removed it. Vickser 15:13, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
I do not understand how a Saudi Arab can "racially" abuse an Algerian Berber, please enlighten me. Is it not like a German "racially" abusing an Englishman?
I don't understand how Sunni Muslims can go out and round up Shiite Muslims and slaughter them, with the only way of distinguishing targets being looking at the last name on the national ID card (and picking out traditional Shiite last names), but there it is. -- Cyde↔Weys 18:30, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
The slur used by the Saudi player was "harki" which means Algerian who fought for France against Algeria. Some are alleging that this was the one used yesterday. Makgraf 19:32, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
APPARENTLY ZIDANE WAS CALLED AN "ARAB TERRORIST" BY MATERAZZI... AND THEN HE HEADBUTTED THE FASCIST ITALIAN IN THE CHEST PLATE! Erpals 19:32, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
There is no proof that Materazzi is a fascist.
ITV News has just reported that the slur was "I slept with your mother last night" Zindane then walked away at which point Matterazzi then said "Your mother is an Algerian whore" this is when Zidane turned and headbutted him. What upset Zidane was that his mother was taken into hospital yesterday and he was extremely worried about her. This was on the ITV News program at 10:30pm but I can't find an oline reference. (
AurgornN
22:11, 10 July 2006 (UTC))
At this point it;'s all speculation as to what was said and done. Get a bunch of "professional" lip readers and you'll get numerous different interpretations. Already, we have lip readers suggesting it was racist slur and others saying it was something to do with Zidane's mother, sister, and/or wife. Regardless, from reading the news stories stated or referenced above it seems both players are at fault for what happened asthey were insulting each other back and forth. Why blame only Materazzi?
Why so many informations about 2006 world cup and so few about that of 1998 when Zidane won the tournament?-- Pokipsy76 15:30, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
I agree with this comment. This page is supposed to be an encyclopedia entry of Zinedine Zidane, with emphasis on both the highlights and lowlights of his career. Breaking out the 2006 World Cup because of its timeliness but neglecting to include the 1998 World Cup, which arguably is what made him a "legend," presents a distorted view of Zidane's career. So does including a picture of the headbutt but not including a picture of Zidane scoring one of his headers in 1998 or performing his spin-o-rama move.
Another possibility would be to condense the 2006 World Cup entry to a couple of paragraphs. The Maradona and Pele entries, for instance, do not break out detail for any particular World Cup. If we use the Zidane article as a precedent, it means that we will need to add a "1986 World Cup" entry to Maradona and a "1990 World Cup" entry for Lothar Matthaus.
Please do not mistake this comment for a defense of The Headbutt. This only goes to improve the balance of this entry. — Aviado 21:37, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
"Zidane is the first and only player to be sent off in two separate non-consecutive World Cup finals (1998 against Saudi Arabia, and 2006 against Italy)." The 1998 final was between France and Brazil. This is incorrect. Smitty Mcgee 16:17, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
It is not incorrect, I think 'finals' means the whole tournament, as opposed to the 'final', which is the last game.
ZZ would be the greatest footballer of all times but one thing is lacking patient.
A cameroon player was the first to be sent off in two world cups. I dont have the link. But that info , saying zz is the first, is definitely incorrect.
Wikipedia is an encyclopedia, not a blog or an AP feed. As such, an image of Zidane receiving a red card is not notable enough to be inserted in the article, especially when there is only one other image of him (which is isolated in the infobox). One cannot reasonably expect to see an image of Zidane's headbutt when one does not see images of him at award's banquets when he is receiving FIFA Player of the Year honours or UEFA's Best Footballer of the Past 50 Years. One must put things in perspective. If any picture is inserted in regards to the 2006 FIFA World Cup, it should be of the most notable event, which is obviously him winning the Golden Ball award, not receiving a red card. I'm going to remove the picture and I propose not replacing it without acheiving consensus here on the talk page hoopydink Conas tá tú? 16:33, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
Not notable? Surely you're joking. This has been talked about around the world. It might not be very flattering to him, but it is certainly extremely notable. -- Asbl 17:46, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
Not the defining moment? It is regretably a big stain on his career. He will forever be remembered by that incident. -- Asbl 18:15, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
The fact of the matter is that Mr. Zidane physically attacked anouther player in front of an audiance of at least 1 Billion people. To say that this event, particularly as it just happened does not warrant coverage, especially on the grounds that it would unfairly tarnish his reputation, is silly. What ever happened to letting people see the incident for themselves and allowing them to make up their own mind? Because right now the section on the incident is focused on why he did it, which is very purely speculation. why on earth is that more notable than coverage of the event itself?
As the event just happened, I think we need to keep speculation to a minimum, allow people to see the event for themselves (provide a link), and refrain from adding or taking anything from the section on his legacy for a few weeks untill the situation has settled and become more cleer. -- Brandon Warzybok 19:19, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
Just because it makes him look bad it doesn't mean it shouldn't be provided. The picture is quite small and is near the bottom of the article. Just because there isn't pictures showing how sucessful he is doesn't mean it prevents his failures being put up does it? I just get the feeling you are defending him and removing a very notable image from the article. Remember, this wasn't just the world cup final this was his final international match.-- Andeh 19:22, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
Putting a picture of him headbutting the player in the main box is a little too much. I agree it would lead people who don't watch the game to think it is all he is famous for. I do support putting the links and picture next to the paragraph about the incident so others can see it. Defining moment of his career: No, you would be ignorant to think that. Important issue: Yes and that is why it should be shown in the article User:K-Flow
I believe that we should review this matter after a few weeks. It seems that people are still very emotional about this incident, afterall the game was played only 24 hours ago.
--
Windtalker
19:52, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
On July 9, 2006, Zidane became one of only four footballers to achieve the feat of scoring in two different World Cup final matches (he scored twice in the 1998 FIFA World Cup final), sharing the honour with Pelé, Paul Breitner, and Vavá. He scored in the seventh minute from the penalty spot. He nearly headed in the ball during the first period of extra time but it was saved by Gianluigi Buffon. His career ended in disgrace when he was sent off for violent conduct after headbutting Italy's goalscorer, Marco Materazzi, in the chest in the 110th minute. The game ended in a 1-1 draw and Italy won the championship after a penalty kick shootout. His agent, Alain Migliaccio has claimed that a "very serious" comment by Matterazzi provoked the attack.<ref>{{cite news |url=http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/world_cup_2006/teams/france/5164094.stm |title=Zidane blamed Materazzi comment |publisher=BBC Sport |date=[[2006-07-10]] |accessdate=2006-07-10}}</ref> He was the fourth person to have been sent off in a World Cup final and the first to be sent off during extra time.
Its also only fair to include that Matterazzi denied the claims if we want to include the claims of Zidane's agent at all. -- Brandon Warzybok 19:37, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
Looks like someone has put the image back up already, I'll leave it on as I really don't see any reason not to have it up.-- Andeh 20:51, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
The section has too much speculation and unsubstanciated claims again. If we dont know things for sure at this point i think we really need to leave it out. -- Brandon Warzybok 21:01, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
Not notable enough? Not notable!??! Are you kidding? It's reckoned that a billion people saw that match. And guess what they're still talking about. It's still in the news in England - several front page stories of national newspapers today, both "heavies" and tabloids. Not notable? Do me a lemon. It's one of the biggest football stories ever. "What did Materazzi say" has become the "Who shot JR Ewing" of football. -- Dweller 14:44, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
A minor note but it mentions Zidane was sent off in the 2006 World Cup final in over time. There is no such thing as over time in football, it is called Extra Time.
What languages does he speak- bbc news used a lipreader to see what the Italian defender said to him that meade him headbut the guy- but unless Zidane speaks Italian how could that be- maybe the defender speaks French?
Again, why I want all speculation not confirmed by Zidane or Materazzi not included in this article. -- Brandon Warzybok 21:49, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
It is stated on the page under the 2006 World Cup Finals header that he heard his family was involved in 9/11. This is obviously vandalism and ought to be deleted.
Yes, ive removed that section in my last edit. It was blatant vandalism. I also removed the two claims of what Materazzi said. in a few weeks when people and the sports writers begin to calm down and stop speculating we will better be able to piece together what happened, but seeing as we dont even know what language the players were argueing in to include what one media group is claiming is just not warranted at this point. -- Brandon Warzybok 22:00, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
A few moments ago some large black letters were displayed lower on the page. They were mixed up so I wasn't able to understand what wass written, but based on the previous comments, it was probably something by some rightwing-extremist. But it looks like somebody removed it now. Thanks.
Because whenever something bad is said it must be from some dirty right winger...
Yes you american fascist go awaty
Being accused of being a terrorist might be an insult in the US or UK that have recently suffered from bombings, but would not be used between a French and an Italian. Krouic 10:56, 13 July 2006 (UTC)
since many media outlets are "translating" different comments that are in some cases totaly different from one anouther, i think we really need to remove all speculative comments untill one is confirmed or substanciated in a better way. -- Brandon Warzybok 00:42, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
I agree. Then again, can we PLEASE give more prottection to this page and leave editing till there is some common sense here? It is ridicolous to have that video put and removed several times. That is NOT representative of zidane carrer's. This is NOT a newspaper, not a link dump, not a tabloid, but a enciclopedia. Our respect for the guy (or hate for what matteers) has nothing to do with his wikipedia entry. -- phantom
Under the picture of Zidane's headbutt that were recently added, includes a link to a video clip of the incident on youtube. The creators comments for the video clip on youtube are: "See the stupidity of Zidane as he headbutt's an Italian player for Unknown reasons.". There are dozens of versions of this same clip on youtube, most of which have neutral comments. Is this vandalism and should the link be changed to a version of the clip with netural comments in regards to the incident? - User:pallfy 21:37, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
"for Unknown reasons" the unbeatable stupidity is to claim that Zidane headbutted Materazzi without any reason which the "unknown" implies. it was obvious that Materazzi cheated he was holding Zidane (as seen on the video) and he told him things, which can be assumed as cursing. BTW the FIFA has removed the videos from youtube on July 11th 2006.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/world_cup_2006/teams/france/5164094.stm
This link is listed double under the header 'notes'; how does one fix this?
Kevin Hughes
01:51, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
Apparaently the headbutt are becoming a meme. What are we going to do with this. SYSS Mouse 03:09, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
Materazzi, meanwhile, has absolutely denied the terrorist comment. "It is absolutely not true, I didn't call him a terrorist, I don't know anything about that," Materazzi said when he arrived back at an Italian military airfield. "What happened is what all the world saw live on TV," he said, referring to the head-butting. Sjc 06:21, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
This article has some serious NPOV issues. There is no mention of the red card in the legacy section, although this is clearly part of his legacy now.
Has the world gone mad?
Has everyone found their chance to come up with their own conclusions with no adequate and true theories? Why is it that individuals thrive for their needs and rights through lies, hatred, and racism? Why do people conclude that the insults shared by both parties were racial? There are two issues applied here and these are their roots !
Stereotyping Muslims: Many argues that Zidane proved himself to be a true Muslim through his aggressiveness. It is funny how once a star, Zidane was never referred to as a Muslim, and now that he had shown a little of his bitter side, he has become a Muslim. This is how far our world has been victim of hypocrisy and deception. It makes me sick to hear and see that people believe that "Once an Angel he's all yours, and once a devil he becomes Muslim".
A Window to Vengence: On the other side, people lack to understand that there is enough tension toward Muslims. It irritates me to see that the rumors were said to be "He called him a terrorist" or even better "He insulted Islam and Muslims". If that argument was to happen between Toni and Henry I am sure such accusation would not apply. As a Muslim myself, it is sad to see that with all the struggles encountered by Muslims, they still thrive for more, and that with all the struggle caused by the others, they too crave for more. The part that cracks me up the most is having the media as well as all these noisy people trying to translate by reading lips. Are people going mad? You can't come up with conclusions like that.
My suggestion to this issue is to get an explaination from both Zinedine Zidane, and Marco Materazzi before making up our own conclusions and provoking the world ! Lebanese in USA 17:05, 11 July 2006 (UTC)Nøŗma
THE SECTION REPORTING THE LIP-READING TRANSCRIPT IS TOTALLY MISLEADING: IT GIVES THE IMPRESSION THAT THE TRANSCRIPTS AGREE OR COMPLEMENT EACH OTHER. HOWEVER, THERE ARE AT LEAST 3 DIFFERENT VERSIONS THAT HAVE BEEN PRODUCED BY NON-ITALIAN LIP-READERS (two reported by BBC http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/world_cup_2006/5169342.stm and one from a brazilian TV channel) - AND THEY ARE COMPLETELY DIFFERENT: one is wishing the death of Zidane's family, another one is an insult to Zidane's sister.
THIS SECTION SHOULD BE EITHER REMOVED OR COMPLETELY REPHRASED. 131.111.225.73 18:19, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
Anyone find it odd that the papers don't agree but threw several diffrent extremely offensive remarks out, I think this is a case of the media trying to cause (even more) controversy for plubicity 24.237.198.91 21:46, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
Can someone who understand's Arabic confirm that this photo is under the GFDL Image:Zinedine Zidane-ar.jpg? Even better, could someone try and confirm that it was correctly licensed. E.g. if the person who uploaded it was the photographer. If not, try and find where it came from. It looks to me a bit like a professional photo and it's also just a thumbnail so it would be good if we could get more info on it. If you are able to confirm it is under the GFDL, consider uploading it to the wikicommons perhaps and delete the english variant? Nil Einne 15:26, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
User: Syimrvm just removed the information about what was currently happening with the note that it was unnecessary and that in time a more succint paragraph would suffice. While I agree fully that the paragraph as it was needs to be pared down and fully believe that it will become smaller over time, I think we should discuss this on the talk page and try to get some consensus about what's worth having up now. Vickser 16:00, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
I propose the following: Vickser 19:34, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
"Regarding the substance of the argument, Zidane's agent Alain Migliaccio said, "[Zidane] told me Materazzi said something very serious to him but he wouldn't tell me what."<ref name="zidane_blame">{{cite news |url=http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/world_cup_2006/teams/france/5164094.stm |title=Zidane blamed Materazzi comment |publisher=BBC Sport |date=[[2006-07-10]] |accessdate=2006-07-10}}</ref> Several papers have had lipreaders try to interpret what Materazzi said and come up with different results. No one transcript has emerged as widely agreed upon.<ref>{{cite news |url=http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,28783-2263995,00.html |last = Hughes |first = Matt |title=Read my lips: the taunt that made Zidane snap |publisher=The Times |date=[[2006-07-10]] |accessdate=2006-07-11}}</ref><ref>{{cite news |url=http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=395046&in_page_id=1770 |last = Hale |first = Beth |title=Revealed: The disgusting abuse that sparked Zidane's fury |publisher=Daily Mail |date=[[2006-07-10]] |accessdate=2006-07-11}}</ref><ref>{{cite news |url=http://www.thesun.co.uk/article/1,,2006310771,00.html |last = Peake |first = Alex |title=Sick taunt that riled ZZ |publisher=The Sun |date=[[2006-07-11]] |accessdate=2006-07-11}}</ref><ref>{{cite news |url=http://www.spiegel.de/sport/fussball/0,1518,426118,00.html |title=Materazzi räumt Beleidigung ein |language=German |publisher=SPIEGEL online |date=[[2006-07-11]] |accessdate=2006-07-11}}</ref>
Materazzi recounted the incident as follows: "I held his shirt for a few seconds only, then he turned to me and talked to me, jeering. He looked at me with a huge arrogance and said: 'If you really want my shirt, I'll give it to you afterwards'. I replied with an insult, that's true." He denied that the accusation that the comment was racist in nature or that he had called Zidane a terrorist. He also rejected claims that he had insulted Zidane's mother, saying: "I certainly didn't talk about Zidane's mother" because to him "the mother is sacred". Zidane's mother had been taken ill to hospital hours before the World Cup final.<ref>{{cite news |url=http://foxsports.news.com.au/story/0,8659,19757414-23215,00.html |first=Paul |last=Kent |title=Insult was to Zidane's wife |publisher=[[Fox Sports (Australia)]] |date=[[2006-07-12]] |accessdate=2006-07-11}}</ref> According to Materazzi, it was "the type of insults that we've heard before so many times on the pitch, and sometimes we don't even notice it".<ref name="materazzi_ESPN">{{cite news |url=http://soccernet.espn.go.com/news/story?id=373706&cc=5901 |title=Materazzi admits to insulting Zidane |publisher=ESPN |date=[[2006-07-11]] |accessdate=2006-07-11}}</ref> Zidane's agent has told reporters that Zidane himself will speak on the incident in a few days.<ref>{{cite news |url=http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/world_cup_2006/5169342.stm |title=Fifa Investigates Zidane Red |publisher=[[BBC Sport]] |date=[[2006-07-11]] |accessdate=2006-07-11}}</ref>"
Hi, I am not sure if this article should be included here:
http://ansa.it/main/notizie/awnplus/english/news/2006-07-11_1114278.html Since I am not a Wiki-nerd so some professional may decide it :)
I think there should be a new archive on this talk page.. getting really long..
The paragraph on the possiblity of Italy being disqualified from the cup due to Materazzi's insult, strikes me as extreme wishful-thinking on someone's part, even if a German publisher got in on the act. Were FIFA to disqualify a side, based on an insult hurled on the pitch, it would be a significant scandal. Were FIFA to take back the Cup from the winning side based on such an occurrence, would be an event which would shake the sport of football to its foundations. I think stronger sources should be found for this sort of speculation before it goes into Wikipedia. -- EngineerScotty 20:24, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
Yeah, I noticed this too. I don't think the paragraph should be in there. Nobody that I've seen (ESPN, Guardian, BBC Sport) has picked up on this, and those are all papers that would mention this if it were at all feasible that Italy would lose the world cup. I think we should remove the paragraph, or just say there is the possibility of harsh sanctions. Vickser 20:49, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
I commented out the section, pending stronger sources. (Note that sanctions against Materazzi are a far different matter than sanctions against Italy). -- EngineerScotty 20:59, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
There's a problem... the article 55 has only 3 paragraphs (where's the 4th paragraph?):
It is outregeous how people speculate on issues without any documentation. The allegation on the possiblity of Italy being disqualified from the cup due to Materazzi's insult does not have any logic. Are there any link to articles or news about that??? NO. So PLEASE REMOVE THAT ABSURD personal opinion! --- zip
The amended FIFA article states that if the contemptuous actions of a player, spectator, or official "can be attributed to a certain team" then the sanctions can be imposed. But, the chances of Italy actually getting disqualified are nil for several reasons. First of all, the scandal created would be enormous, especially in light of FIFAs "say no to racism" campaign. Second of all, how do you attribute Materazzi's action to the whole team? And finally, there is absolutely no conclusive evidence that any racial slur was ever used (not to mention that Zidane has denied that Materazzi's comments were racist). The only two people who know what was said were Materazzi and Zidane, and naturally both of them are going to try and save face: Zidane by making it seem that what was said was much worse that it really was and Materazzi by trying to downplay his comments. There is no chance that such drastic measures would be taken with a total lack of conclusive evidence. The Der Spiegel article, makes it seem as though it is a fact that a racial slur was used. In fact, all available evidence suggests that isn't the case. It think the article on Zidane should be edited to remove the comment about disqualification until there is conclusive evidence that such an action is a distinct possibility. I have to agree with many of the comments above: as reputable of a publication as Der Spiegel is, it seems as though it is just sour grapes and overly wishful thinking on their part to even suggest that such action be taken.
Are there any high quality photographs of the incident, or even a website that has quality photos of Zidane/ the final? Thanks.
Try browsing football forums and asking this question. This is not a football forum. (
AurgornN
17:54, 12 July 2006 (UTC))
The inclusion of "aftermath" reactions seems a little biased. It suggests to the reader that nobody is upset about it and everything's hunky-dory for Zidane, when several people have spoken out against it, including the Brazilian coach calling him a 'monster.'
Moreover, there's been no mention of the FRENCH reaction - and by that I mean more than just the president. The newspapers have soundly condemned the act: http://www.utvlive.com/newsroom/indepth.asp?id=32550&pt=s Dead men's bells 02:38, 12 July 2006 (UTC)
(A) Why didn't he go back on the pitch? Because a red-carded player must leave the pitch and not return.
(B) neither Ali, nor Jesse Owens or Pele "broke the rules the way you did." Anyone remember when Ali called Joe Frazier an "Uncle Tom?"
When one is red-carded one has to leave the arena of play and an automatic one-game suspension is in force (except in England, whose rules differ from those of Fifa on the matter - in other words, in England the suspension can be appealed). As the awards ceremony, etc. is still part of the match he couldn't attend it. Also, I am pretty sure that he commiserated with his fellows the day after when they were feted by Chirac.
Pointing out Ali's statement was a way of deflating the hype about this a bit.
Sorry to be a pain in the ass, here, but the provocation speculation is just that - speculation. I don't have a problem with including supposed translations as long as which are reported isn't subjective. "Son of a terrorist whore" is what's there now and it's by far the most offensive of the purported insults, with no mention of the far more benign "I'd rather take the shirt off your wife." Either don't give possible insults at all until more information comes out or include more than the worst one.-- Dead men's bells 02:44, 12 July 2006 (UTC)
You're right, they have been, but if you look through the news articles added in the last few hours, there's a drastic increase in articles purporting it was an insult toward his wife. I understand that it's the most widely reported at-the-moment, but it's far from unheard of from earlier reports to be inaccurate in any given circumstance. There just isn't enough information about the lip-reading to warrant a single overriding explanation; there are thousands of "experts" who testify in trials in all countries whose credentials are far less than their title of "forensic expert" would suggest. Also, lip-reading is controversial in itself because of the variety of different phrases that can result in the same lip movement - a point that Wikipedia made on their lip reading page. Will it come out that he called him the son of a terrorist whore? Maybe, but it's just conjecture at this point and including it and only it because the newspapers seized on the most shocking interpretations is giving too much credit to sensationalism. It's possible, but it's not the only thing that is, and anyone in the field of lip-reading would tell you that relying on non-Italian interpreters brings up a whole lot of new problems.
I made an edit in the lipreading section saying that the interpretations "ranged from racist remarks about Zidane and his family to an inappropriate comment about his wife." That doesn't delete the "terrorist whore" comment further down on the page, but I think it's supremely fair to make it clear that not all of the purported interpretations are racist in nature. (As for the comment on Materazzi's not knowing what a terrorist is, I think that's subjective and that the version posted is misleading. The one I'd originally posted says he doesn't understand the full meaning of being an Islamic terrorist because he isn't very cultured. Questionable, certainly, but hardly what I'd call "stupid.") -- Dead men's bells 06:26, 12 July 2006 (UTC)
I appreciate we are just accurately reporting the Brazilian coach's comments but could someone perhaps find some reference or other that points out that Zidane was technically not allowed back onto the field due to the red card? I have seen other people who are apparently unaware of this fact and the fact that even the Brazilian coach is either unaware or considered it okay for Zidane to further break the rules by coming back on to the field suggests we should at least make it clear that Zidane was not allowed back onto the field, whether to console his teammates, collect his medal or collect the World Cup if France had won. Nil Einne 06:23, 12 July 2006 (UTC)
The whole issue regarding Zidane being called a "Monster", has been taken out of context. Carlos Alberto Parreira (Brazilian Coach) did call him a "Monster" but that only after the game against Brazil. Referring to his soccer abilities and not to the whole headbutting episode. Refer to the link below (in the part titled "WHAT THEY SAY ABOUT ZIDANE"): [http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/world_cup_2006/teams/france/5147908.stm]
I removed the part which stated the Brazilian coach called zidane a monster after the headbutiing incident.True, he was called a monster by Alberto Carlos, but only after Brazil's loss to France and definitely not after the final and most definitely not in a negative context.-- Sagacious 20:17, 12 July 2006 (UTC)
this is forbidden by the FIFA and it's yet unclear if the 4th referee did use the giant screen or not. witnesses have seen the 4th referee watching the screen, while the concerned person claims he didn't.—Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.228.0.86 ( talk • contribs)
since "this is not a message board" this is not yahoonews neither! the section about Zidane's headbutt is way too important on the article! his whole carrer is near as long as the headbutt, this is nonsense and unlegitimate. a single event doesn't need a such close up and must be reduced. 213.228.0.86 10:08, 12 July 2006 (UTC)
answer below because he is good because he loves me
It might be pertinent to include a mention of the possibility of Zidane being stripped of his award. It's all over CNN because of Blatter's statement. -- Dead men's bells 14:06, 12 July 2006 (UTC)
Zidane's carreer as one of the greatests footballers of all time spanned much farther than the 2006 World Cup. It seems to me as if there is much too much focus on the headbutt incidident in this article. It doesn't make any sense that the section on the 2006 World Cup is one-third of the entire article. In a few months people will remember Zidane for his footballing genius, not the head-butt. Too much focus on it in this article. Should there not be a more organized way to balance the article? Xioyux 15:55, 12 July 2006 (UTC)
There's a lot of speculation because no one's spoken out yet. It's a current event. Of course it'll be pared down to a smaller section when everything comes out. Sheesh, it IS a big deal. 67.169.111.72 18:16, 12 July 2006 (UTC)
Is anyone watching? What did he say? I bet he didn't get into details of Materazzi's insult.-- 216.75.93.110 18:18, 12 July 2006 (UTC)
Could not watch the interview. Internet news are very imprecise on Zidane's words. Some say insults to "mother and sister", others to "family" others to his "women". It would be useful to have on Wikipedia the exact transcript of Zidane's words, to match with Matreazzi's statements that he did not mention Zidane's mother. Apparently Zidane did not say what insults he received.
He said he repeatedly insulted his mother and sister, that he is a man and does not regret his actions but that he regrets it for the millions watching and especially for the teachers etc...
Good for Zidane! -- 83.45.170.143 18:27, 12 July 2006 (UTC)
I watched the interview. Zidane did not want to say what insults he received, even pressed by the interviewer. The racist hypothesis is apparently out. It is true that Zidane mentions his mother and sister, but he does not really clarify. I guess we won't know nuch more from the two contendants. Normally plenty of insults are heard during a football match. Zidane does not suggest why Materazzi's words were so unusual.
Later Zidane told TF1 that Materazzi did not make racist statements. I guess this makes the whole story less interesting than the media expected ...
Unfortunately I got the news from an internet newspaper, claiming that Zidane did tell TF1 that there was no racist statement. I cannot quote TF1 directly right now. As soon as I get a sound quotation it is mandatory to insert it in the article (but I cannot, because access is restricted). I will put it here and somebody else will insert it. My indirect quotation is from Corriere della Sera http://www.corriere.it/Primo_Piano/Sport/2006/07_Luglio/12/Zidane.shtml Orbifold 20:01, 12 July 2006 (UTC)
Has there been any mention of criminal charges for Zidane's assault on Materazzi? Or does law not apply to athletes on the field?
Re: The law always applies. There was a case a few years back where a hockey player in the USA attacked another player on the ice and was charged with assault. However, I have not yet heard about possible charges against Zidane. Manus Celer Dei 19:34, 12 July 2006 (UTC)
Normally sport players are committed not to go to ordinary courts to decide about episodes of a match, because the agonistic tension can provoke behaviors that the same persons would never show in ordinary life. This both for Materazzi's words and Zidane's reaction. More serious are the words or acts that follow the match or are not directly related with a match. Those should also be dealt with by the FIFA and other sport authorities, without involvment by ordinary courts, but it is less unfrequent to hear of footbal teams going to court. Normally a team excluded from some competition because of his budget goes to court to be admitted. Orbifold 19:57, 12 July 2006 (UTC)
Regarding the request for a citation (see end of section Canal+ interview), I couldn't find something written to quote, but if you watch the interview on the TF1 website (http://www.eurosport.fr/football/coupedumonde/2006/sport_sto924766.shtml) at about 2 mins. 30 secs. you'll hear this (sorry for not writing accents, but my keybord doesn't have them):
INTERVIEWER: "... et quand vous dites 'des paroles tres graves', est-ce que vous pouvez dire si elles sont d'ordre raciste, ..."
ZIDANE: "non..."
INTERVIEWER: "... si elles sont d'ordre familiale... "
ZIDANE: "... oui c'est familiale... "
Which translates into (god, how hard!):
INTERVIEWER: "... and when you say 'very serious words', could you say if they are of racist nature, ..."
ZIDANE: "no..."
INTERVIEWER: "... if they are of domestic nature... "
ZIDANE: "... yes, domestic... "
131.111.225.73 21:22, 12 July 2006 (UTC)
Other sources confirming Zidane's denial of racist insults:
from Le Parisien:
http://www.leparisien.com/home/sports/mondial2006/article.htm?articleid=261030842
from Il Corriere:
http://www.corriere.it/Primo_Piano/Sport/2006/07_Luglio/12/Zidane.shtml
F4810 11:03, 13 July 2006 (UTC)
My statements are confirmed also by a French user on the French Wikipedia Talk page about Zinedine Zidane [http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Discuter:Zinedine_Zidane], who writes "L'article du Monde (dont le lien figure sur l'article de Zidane) semble dire que Zidane confirme la version des propos racistes soutenue par de nombreux Tabloids anglais. Or hier Zidane a nié les insultes racistes (en particulier durant l'interview de TF1 ou Claire Chazal lui a directement posé la question). Je pense donc qu'il faudrait supprimer cet article du Monde et le remplacer par un autre qui ne déforme pas la réalité." Therefore I suggest that a statement on this important fact be inserted. I think it is not fair to ignore this important interview in the English page. Orbifold 12:40, 13 July 2006 (UTC)
This:
has been removed from the article appearing on Le Monde, which was probably also the source for the Swiss newspaper. I think there is little doubt left that Materazzi's insult was a racist one. 193.62.198.107 15:49, 13 July 2006 (UTC)
Alright, now that Zidane and Materazzi have publically spoken about the incident, I think it does need to be edited down. Aside from a passing mention that there was initially some rumor about racist remarks, I don't think there needs to be anything else on that front (i.e. the word 'terrorist' anywhere) because Zidane's categorically denied it. Can someone reduce it to reflect Zidane and Materazzi's current positions and get rid of all the speculation? Dead men's bells 22:11, 12 July 2006 (UTC)
Does anyone know if anyone's ever been stripped of the Golden Ball award before? Dead men's bells 23:09, 12 July 2006 (UTC)
The link under the headbutt photo entitled "Alternate video" needs fixing or removing. The You Tube message reads:
"This video has been removed at the request of copyright owner FIFA 2006 because its content was used without permission".
I removed this from the article:
The reasons are:
1) A source is not provided. The primary source would be Le Monde, but (as someone noticed at the end of section "Zidane says insults were not of racist nature") they have removed this sentence from their article (still accessible)... All the other newspapers were citing Le Monde.
2) This contradicts Zidane's denial of racist insults, which is reported by Le Parisien (http://www.leparisien.com/home/sports/mondial2006/article.htm?articleid=261030842), by several italian newspapers, and can be heard clearly in his interview with TF1.
F4810 19:59, 13 July 2006 (UTC)
3) Ok, now I understand where that sentence was coming from. For those who can understand French, watch the Canal + interview at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PSA_I-nFXOU at 5:10. The sentence from Le Monde (then fortunately removed) was a big distorsion of what has been said here. The interviewer says that the sentences reported on the English and Italian tabloids somehow agree with what Zidane just hinted at, insults regarding Zidane's mother and sister. Zidane comments this twice with "ben, oui", once even before 'agrees with' ("recoupe" in french) is said.
I personally think Zidane's denial of having received insults of racist nature should also be included. Alternatively all the story about who said what should be deleted... F4810 20:29, 13 July 2006 (UTC)
Comments allegedly attributed to her prove to be a mere tabloid fabrication.
The Daily Mirror was silent in revealing their sources, yet those closest to the Zidane family have stated that his mother did not say that she wanted Materazzi's testicles (cut off) on a platter. If someone stated it, it was not his mother. The Daily Mirror only backed their reporting by reiterating that Zidane's mother told *her friends* "I have nothing but contempt for Materazzi and, if what he said is true, then I want his balls on a platter," This purposeful response by The Daily Mirror reveals only that their news came as an indirect quote, rather then an interview.
It seems The Daily Mirror will have to join the Materazzi apology band wagon.
You don't know if you would walk away. You can only speculate on what you might or would like to do. Then again, this incident really isn't about you, so I'm not quite sure why what you would or would not do is of any importance.
I removed the claim that Zidane responded "no" when asked if the remarks were racist in nature. There were four references after this sentence. Some in English, some not. The English sources most certainly do not support this! Having put the others through Babelfish, I am fairly certain they don't say this. Given that most accounts of that interview omit this detail (which would be extremely notable, given the Fifa investigation) and explicitly say that he was extremely vague about Materazzi's comments, it seems improbable. I found no account of the TF1 interview which states this. Please don't readd without a better source. savidan (talk) (e@) 06:52, 14 July 2006 (UTC)
The comment(s) below were originally left at Talk:Zinedine Zidane/Comments, and are posted here for posterity. Following several discussions in past years, these subpages are now deprecated. The comments may be irrelevant or outdated; if so, please feel free to remove this section.
Well done with references in most places, however, there are some sections that still need inline citations. Also, try working the trivia items into the prose of the article. plange 23:54, 8 August 2006 (UTC) |
Last edited at 23:54, 8 August 2006 (UTC). Substituted at 21:04, 4 May 2016 (UTC)
All of you are just arguing here about which god made zidane, yours or mine . Zidane knows exactly who god is .Thats why he’s a great man, who doesn’t want to join your debate.
PLEASE NOTE: All discussion about the World Cup Final Headbutt is under the "Headbutt" topic. Click the link in the contents and add to it if you wish don't create a new topic for it so it can all be kept together. SenorKristobbal 23:10, 9 July 2006 (UTC)
The article says "Although the polling continued until midnight, most votes were cast during half-time, prior to the headbutting incident" but thats not true since FIFA says it's impossible to tell howmany of votes belong to before and after the incident. In previous tournaments, the ballot has closed at halftime in the final and the winner announced soon after the match but in this case even thought the polling was open after the headbutting, Zidane won the golden ball. Which means that what zidane did had no influence on the voters. So, please clear up these nonsences and gossips and put some facts. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 64.231.193.87 ( talk • contribs) 22:03, 11 July 2006 (UTC).
Why don't you check this out.( it's from FIFA, under "IRONIC TOUCH "). (A reliable source haha!sorry, couldnt stop it) [http://sports.yahoo.com/sow/news?slug=reu-worldfifadc&prov=reuters&type=lgns]. Not to mention that the media committee for Golden ball cantake away the award if it wants to. The reason that Zidane still has the award because media wants to!
I agree with the protesting. Most of the votes ? What does this mean? 51%? 60% 99%? This is completely vague and therefore is an opinionated, unfair, but mostly journalistically unprofessional and peremptory comment directly aimed against Zidane, as this journalist has NO WAY whatsoever to check (or of he has than he should have, but he hasn;t done his job properly) how many votes were cast before the incident (other than the vague "most" which means nothing). I don't think the "reliable" (prove it!) source is so reliable, now, is it?! I rest my case. Indeed: Look at it this way: if 51% of the votes were cast before the incident, that meand that DESPITE the reprehensible headbutt, the journalists STILL think he's the best. Which really means he's amazing and judged as such. And that is exactly the same if 75% of the votes were cast before considering the margin Zidane had ahead. So appreciation is in the way you write it, and this comment is written in a mos unacceptable subjective way. This does not comply with the standrads of Wikipedia. On a separate note: I would also like to add that while headbutting is of course not acceptable, the golden ball rewards the best football player. technically. It is debatable whther a head butt shuould be part of this technicalities. One can see this has something completely separate Vs how a player is good. And Zidane was undeniably the best player, by far, of the tournament. So if he should be sanctioned, that should be with a separate type of sanction which has nothing to do with the golden Ball.
-- 81.170.73.117 11:19, 13 July 2006 (UTC)
FIFA can't take Zidane Golden ball away since it is given to him by media not FIFA so i suggest to remove that false citation and the comment from the FIFA investigation section too. you3f 18:19, 13 July 2006 (UTC)
First up in this dicussion page shall be his name. His first, middle, and last name are Arabic. The pronounciation of his names in Arabic (using English pronounciation) is Zaynadeen Yazeed Zaydan. In the Algerian accent, which corrupts the Arabic pronounciation, it becomes "Zeendeen Yazeed Zeedan". So the transliteration of the Arabic name & the transliteration of the name in Algerian accent should be seperated.
Arabic: زين الدين يزيد زيدان,
His first name is a wonderful example of a complex Arabic name with more then one part.
Zaynadeen.
Zayn = beauty http://www.behindthename.com/php/view.php?name=zayn
adeen = the path/way http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deen_(Arabic_term)
Zaynadeen means (the) Beautiful (one) of the Path. It is a descriptive name not meaning "beautiful path" rather the beautiful one of the path.
Yazeed = one who increases
Zaydan = overabundant twice (not twice overabundant)
The name Zaydan is the same as the name Zayd except the "an" ending means "two". Zayd = overabundant. Zaydan is emphasizing the overabundance of something that they possess, such as for example talent. One may say they possess an overabundance of talent. But with the word Zaydan, it is like saying overabundant twice of, for example, talent.
So his full name, like many Arabic names, could be put into one sentence. Zinedine Yazid Zidane The beautiful one of the path. One who increases. One who is overabundant, twice.
For the Arabic ear his name automatically becomes his description.
The beautiful one of football (his path). One who increases (advancing). One who is overabundant twice (in ability, talent, & genius). --by BB--
Ok the topic of being called Yaz. Yazid (Yazeed) is his second "first name" (middle name in France) and the name he went by at home with his family. Yaz is the nickname of Yazid (Yazeed). His name, Zinedine (Zaynadeen), is used in Arabic more as a title then a name. Long ago, if one was special amongst the people, they may be honored with the addition of the title "Zaynadeen". A title of honor. Sometime prior to the European renessance, Arabs started giving that title of honor at birth, along with a the real first name which became the second "first name". So you will find many who have the name Zaynadeen also have a second "first name", such as Yazid (Yazeed). It just happens that his second "first name" is used in France as a middle name. So his birth name in Arabic would be "Zaynadeen Yazeed" then his last name Zidane (Zaydan). Just as an example, lets say one is honored by the queen with the title of "Sir", then someday people felt they didn't need a queen to give their child that title...So instead of naming their child John, they named him Sir John. --by BB--
Can we get that link of because this is an English page and the article i written in German, it seems a bit irrelevant if we cannot understand it.
Well, I used Google's translation service, and here is what I got: [http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.faz.net%2Fs%2FRubEC1ACFE1EE274C81BCD3621EF555C83C%2FDoc%7EE0DB6C733FD4B4271BB2DF785640AD9EA%7EATpl%7EEcommon%7EScontent.html&langpair=de%7Cen&hl=en&safe=off&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&prev=%2Flanguage_tools]
Seems to be discussing player wages rather than disallowing Italy's win.
==
==
==
the red card of Zidane was not faire == == ==
PFFF yes it was
"FIFA investigation On July 11, 2006, FIFA declared its intent to officially investigate the incident.[29] It has been speculated in the German press, that the non-discrimination provision which FIFA adopted for its disciplinary code on 28 March 2006[30][31]. They married in 1993 and have four sons named Enzo, Luca, Théo and Elyaz. Zidane describes himself as a "non-practicing Muslim".[32] Allegations that Zidane's father was a harki, or Algerian supporter of French rule, have been denied by Zidane himself.[33]"
the part about him becoming married in 1993 has no relevance to this section of the page, can someone please clean it up? i would do it myslef but even my contribution would need cleaning up. thankyou.
"An Amendment regarding discrimination to Art. 55, Par. 4 of the FIFA Disciplinary Code [3] stipulates that if any player, association or club official or spectator publicly disparages, discriminates against or denigrates someone in a defamatory manner on account of race, colour, language, religion or ethnic origin, or perpetrates any other discriminatory and/or contemptuous act and can be attributed to a certain team, the team in question faces deduction of points in the group stage resp. disqualification in the knockout stage.
The new provisions had been adopted on 28 March 2006 and may lead to the FIFA Executive Committee imposing harsh sanctions and even disallowing Italy's team the World Cup victory if Materazzi is convicted of having insulted Zidane with racial slurs.[26]"
Seeing as the investigation was only announced today, I don't think the conclusion suggested in the above paragraphs needs to be displayed (yet). Here's the link to the ESPNsoccernet article that deals with the matter [http://soccernet.espn.go.com/news/story?id=373731&cc=5901]. Nowhere (believe it or not) does it mention that Materazzi's use of language is being investigated. It would be really hard to prove the content of any insults exchanged between the two players. We should wait until the conclusion of the investigation before posting consequences; the paragraphs should be removed and replaced with a comment like "The investigation is currently in progress". -- Nicklob 17:30, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
PLEASE NOTE: All discussion about the World Cup Final Headbutt is under the "Headbutt" topic. Click the link in the contents and add to it if you wish don't create a new topic for it so it can all be kept together. SenorKristobbal 23:10, 9 July 2006 (UTC)
Whoever made that moving .gif, why not redo it but deinterlace it first? It looks pretty bad.
Thanks for the redirect, jheimans. I should have realized that a star of such magnitude would already have an article. -- Ed Poor
Shouldn't this be under "Zinédine Zidane" rather than "Zinedane Zidane". This conforms with Wiki's policy of using proper names. Any objections? Mandel 10:09, Aug 3, 2004 (UTC)
the correct spelling in France is "Zinedine", pronounced "Zindin". The incorrect spelling comes from journalists mispronoucing this name. see [http://www.google.fr/search?q=pr%C3%A9nom+Zinedine&sourceid=mozilla-search&start=0&start=0&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official|Google search "Prénom Zinedine"]and [http://meilleursprenoms.com/Etymologie/Etymologie.php3?search=Zinedine&horiz=Go|this site on the Arab Etymology of first names] for references. Zidane himself has spoken up about the incorrect pronounciation and spelling of his name, according to the Europe1 Radio news in Paris. Musikfabrik 17:08, 28 February 2006 (UTC)
We should also add an ambiguation for the Zidane of Final Fantasy 9... :) -Aya
Just to let you all know I made a change from "Paris Saint-Germain's Enzo Francescoli" to "Olympique de Marseille's Enzo Francescoli". Francescoli never played for Paris Saint Germain but for Racing Club de Paris. After that he moved to Marseille. Since Zidane was a ballboy in Marseille, this makes more sense.I wank. Cheers! -- Teuv 22:26, 17 Dec 2004 (UTC)
---Add any additional comments on the "Requested move" below this line ---
Common ENGLISH usage. Using www.google.co.uk (which differentiates between words with and without diacritics:
At the moment because of the lack of the name without diacritics the English Wikipedia article will not show up on a Google search in many English speaking countries. If the page stays where it is this can be fixed, but if it is moved to the French spelling the page is unlikely to keep the name "Zinedine Zidane" which is the common English spelling Philip Baird Shearer 21:10, 14 Mar 2005 (UTC)
Zinédine Zidane redirects to Zinedine Zidane, so I don't suppose it matters, especially since there seems to be some debate about whether English or French should be preferred. As long as one redirects to the other, I'm neither for nor against. Seem a bit like a game of semantics to me. In fact, I didn't even know his name had a ´ until now. -- Ben davison 21:58, 14 Mar 2005 (UTC)
It was requested that this article be renamed but there was no consensus for it to be moved. violet/riga (t) 09:45, 20 Mar 2005 (UTC)
Several remarks. The accent should not be there at all, his name is Zinedine (pronounced Zin-din as previously noted. The accent is an invention of French journalists. Second, also as someone noted before, he is not English, but he is not Arab either, he is Berber. The transliteration of his name into Arabic at the beginning of the entry is not just unnecessary, it is plain wrong. There is absolutely no justification for it. Names in his parents' homeland, Algeria, are not registered in Arabic but in the Roman script and cannot change, except by presidential decree (a legacy of French colonial rule). The name therefore is Zinedine Zidane and cannot be anything else in Roman or any other script. Kusyel.
Take that nonsense off about what the Italian said. It hasnt been proven yet. First he called him a terrorista now he insulted his family...blah blah blah. Also, I love the article makes it seem like Zidane was just listening to him. It's obvious as hell that they were jarring back and forth. So your telling me that Zidane invited him for a tour of his vineyard and Matterazi said your mother is a terrorist whore???? The way it is written has obvious favoritism towards Zidane. July 11, 2006
It is inaccurate (or POV) to claim that Zidane is currently regarded as the best player in the world, as he does not hold the FIFA World Player of the Year award, nor is he being considered for the award in 2005. Obviously a three-time winner deserves his credit, thus I will change these statements to past tense if there are no objections. Karma Heretic 04:57, 6 December 2005 (UTC)
There are no accents in this name in French (do a google search on "prenom Zinedine" and you'll see....). The accent comes from journalists who mispronounce this name, which should be pronounced "Zindin". The accent should be changed in the article. Musikfabrik 16:57, 28 February 2006 (UTC)
As he is of Moroccan descent, Zidane's name is of Arabic origin (زين الدين زيدان). As such, its CORRECT pronunciation is the Arabic one which, when reflected onto the Anglo-Saxon language, is pronounced: "Zin-al'deen Zidaane" —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 70.48.14.126 ( talk • contribs) 22:36, 8 July 2006 (UTC).
Zin al- Deen means the "Ornament of Religion" Zin= Ornament (or Zein) and "Al Deen" means of the religion. Erpals 01:21, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
Can someone please put more pictures of Zidane? There's only one picture over his profile. The article will look better with more pictures. Zarif 17:15, 20 April 2006 (UTC)
Here are some-more
Wasn't Zidane also part of some club whose name began with US before joining Cannes?
Nothing says he is Muslim, and naming his children christian names is on contradiction with describing him as "devout Muslim".
When he played for Juventus I remember in a TV interview he said that he said the Ayat al-Kursi before each game.
I am not sure what you would consider a Muslim name. Not all Muslims give their children Arabic names, in North Africa many people give their children Berber names that have no connection to Islam or the Koran, and in Turkey a lot if not most people have pre-Islamic Turkic names. Furthermore he didn't give his Children "Christian" names, he named them after his favorite footballers.
Zidane describes himself as a "non-practicing Muslim", which countless Muslims would describe themselves as, including myself. Not practicing does not equate to not practicing anything, and definitely does not equate to not believing. Further, his status as a Muslim is mentioned in countless articles because it is *notable*, being a controversial minority in France. This is evidenced by Salman Rushdie's quote: "[Zidane] has done more to improve France's attitude toward its Muslim minority.. than a thousand political speeches." Finally, players of a minority are referred to in every context, including, for example, Danish Kaneria's status as a Hindu on Pakistan's national team. If a Christian/Jew played for Turkey, his religion would be cited in any biography, whether he was practicing or not. I believe this controversy boils down to personal feelings towards Islam, and these should always be left out of Wikipedia. -- Afinebalance 01:38, 3 July 2006 (UTC)
I would also like to add that naming one's children non-Muslim names is not a contradiction of their beliefs, as Islam has no laws on what names should be chosen, as long as the meaning is positive. -- Afinebalance 01:38, 3 July 2006 (UTC)
Not relevant, he does not partake in public religious activity, lobbying ,etc. Blnguyen | rant-line 03:53, 3 July 2006 (UTC)
First, what is "public religious activity" and "lobbying"?! Give me a break. He is quoted as calling himself a non-practicing MUSLIM. Once again, like I said, his position as a minority player is what is notable, not the religion itself. Religion would not be cited for any Saudi/Turkish/Tunisian players for example. -- Afinebalance 14:26, 3 July 2006 (UTC)
Wow. So Muslim athletes use their public position to promote Islam or they're not *really* Muslim? These assumptions hint at the platform some individuals are really standing on. I also still fail to see how this refutes the fact that he has *descended from a Muslim family*, which is all that is being referred to. There are countless articles across all mediums that refer to him as a Muslim, he himself is quoted as saying he is a Muslim, he has said in a TV interview that he prays a surah from the Qur'an before every match. Having said that, this is all overshadowed by the fact that it is his *STATUS* as a Muslim, not necessarily his degree of "Muslimness", that is important and notable, given the political climate of France throughout his playing career. This has been noted by several authorative articles for reasons that even illogical people would find hard to deny. -- Afinebalance 01:36, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
Why is his religion referred to in countless articles? Because it is a notable status that he carries, being a superstar in a Western country who's descended from a minority group. He does not have to do anything. I'm not sure you folks know how an encyclopedia works, but it attempts to collect as many facts as possible. Zidane descending from a Kabyle Muslim family is a fact. Zidane's quote as a "non-practicing Muslim" is a fact (referred to later in the article, which has ironically remained untouched). Why don't you take out the Kabyle part as well since he doesn't promote his ethnicity either? There are many, many arenas on the internet for you to take out your feelings towards Islam, please do not include Wikipedia in them. -- Afinebalance 02:03, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
Are Sikhism or Islam in India contentious issues? No, they're quite common. The story is quite different in France, regardless of the statistics. At the same time, Danish Kaneria's and Yousuf Youhana's (former) religions have been documented repeatedly since they are not common. I recommend you read the LA Times article on Zidane from June 4, 2006 [http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/commentary/la-op-rotella04jun04,0,7920995.story?coll=la-news-comment-opinions] (I'm sure it's discussed much more in French columns) to get an idea of why Zidane's background is important, at the very LEAST notable, in the context of Muslims in France.
At the end of the day we must ask ourselves: "Is this a fact?" Yes. "If it's a fact, is it notable enough to include relative to the amount of space it takes?" It only requires one word, so I would say yes. It does not refer to how "Muslim" he is, it simply refers to his background. Given these simple points and the passion from some to get rid of it (mainly AFTER he had his monster game against Brazil, how pathetic).. how can individuals NOT be seen (or mistaken) as Islamophobes? -- Afinebalance 02:41, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
It is ironic that you raise the point about France being secular, as this is a major reason for the controversy that currently exists in France. The sheer content on the Islam in France page gives a hint at what I'm talking about, as it is quite longer than most "Islam in.." pages. For the sake of staying on topic, the importance of Zidane's *status* as a Muslim in France has been referred to by one of the most infamous (or famous) anti-Islamic writers of our times, Salman Rushdie.. and it's almost a shame that I must use him as backup in order to make a simple point: it is notable. -- Afinebalance 02:58, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
How am I obviously wrong? Are the countless articles that refer to Zidane as a Muslim written by writers who have gone "mad"? You fail to acknowledge the basic rule of an encyclopedia, which is including any *notable facts*. I don't think you've even bothered to read my arguments for including it, or you're just unable to respond to them. I do know I'm not going to bother repeating the details. You may have a bad understanding of the english language but I'm going to repeat this once more: this refers to the background he has DESCENDED from, and a background which has unquestionably impacted the way he is looked upon by many Muslims and non-Muslims alike. It is a fact that not even you can deny. -- Afinebalance 04:44, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
I think Blnguyen's solution is sensible - I think it's interesting enough to inclusion in the article, but that's now how most people define Zidane. He is a professioinal footballer first and foremost, and he's not a Beckham-like figure with a visible off-field life. A sentence in the "Personal life" section should suffice. It should not be mentioned in the first paragraph, let alone the first sentence. Ytny 06:12, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
...If you do a Google search on "zidane muslim," you will find many articles saying Zidane is a "devout Muslim." Yet, the interview (the link of which has expired, by the way), states he is a "non-practicing Muslim"? 24.23.219.122 08:12, 8 July 2006 (UTC)
Let me tell you what I first thought of Zidane when I read the Personal Life section of Zinedine Zidane. The only description that describes about his religion is "Zidane describes himself as a 'non-practising Muslim'". And so, my first impression was that Zidane 'does not practise as a Muslim'???. How terrible I felt when I read through this Discussion Page & found out that the fact that Zidane is a Muslim was not even addressed. So, who's actually causing this misleading statement that gave a huge misperception about Zidane's religion? This must be corrected & not to be ignored as it is a clear FACT that Zidane is a Muslim, regardless of how is his level of practising it. Once a Muslim, you die as a Muslim for as long as you did not 'desert from being a Muslim'. The way that the Personal Life section was written is just too short (with no elaboration whatsoever of the phrase 'non-practising Muslim') to give an overall information of Zidane's life as a Muslim. Someone who can edit this section hopefully can quote Zidane himself as quoted as saying he is a Muslim, where he has said in a TV interview that he prays a surah from the Qur'an before every match. And not to forget to quote all that he ever said when being asked about his religion or his practises as a Muslim. Once quoted all these statement from Zidane himself, it would be self explanatory for people to know the whole truth about Zidane's religion. I'm begging for the whole truth to be revealed. I trust wikipedia as a credible source of information & I feel that I need to contribute & do my part to correct anything which was not rightly written or addressed. Regards. 60.49.37.146 13:36, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
The level of practice that Zidane "appears" to be at has nothing to do with anything. Many people don’t know that David Chappelle is a Muslim. And if they do then they think he is “un-practicing”. These people have their reasons for not being very public about their faith, weather they are good or bad ones. I mean I saw Dave Chappele with my own eyes, he was on the same flight as me from new york JFK to JEDDA – Saudi arabia. I later saw him in medina too. I can give dozens of witnesses and articles too. And the issue of naming is blasphemous. During the times of the prophet Muhammad s, when people converted, they didn’t change their names to so called “islamic names”. Chineese muslims name their kids chineese names ect. Back to Zidane, It is a very important fact that he is muslim, it breaks stereotypes, improves muslims status in the eyes of lay-people (although I dunno after overtime...) and shows diversity. In the grand scheme of things, something that represents a competition of the whole world , the world cup is embodied by Zidane, a Muslim. A billion Muslims, other then the crazy ones, can feel connected. “That guy is a muslim” and can be proud rather than ashamed of their faith. That is huge.--
Xe8 3061
19:17, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
JH: The intro to this article should describe Zidane as a "French Muslim football player." I think it's ridiculous his religion is being purposely left out... and I'd also like to state that I think it's unsatisfactory if it's noted anywhere other than the top of the article. One needs only compare him to the great Hank Greenberg who is described in his article as a "Jewish American" baseball player. Greenberg wasn't particularly religious either but was extremely popular with the Jewish American community during his time (see The Life and Times of Hank Greenberg, VHS '99). -- 69.110.231.237 09:03, 12 July 2006 (UTC)JH
Thank you, JH. Most articles in any encyclopedia offer comments like "african american baseball player", "native american runner" "muslim scientist" "jewish director". The assumption being that if you are not of the majority, it is a worth while fact, otherwise we tend to assume you are the majority (whatever that majority be.) One does not have to advocate one's religion for it to be of note. It's not even important that the majority of the people *know* one's religion or background for it to be of note. I just learned from a Zidane link, that Edith Piaf is also berber. This is why one turns to an encyclopedia.--
Kipruss3
19:44, 12 July 2006 (UTC)
I redirected "Zidane" here and made a disamb page cos the other Zidane was nobody. Skinnyweed 00:48, 21 May 2006 (UTC)
There are now 4 Zidane's listed on the disambig page, 3 real people and the FFIX character. This page should have the usual "Zidane redirects here. For other uses, see Zidane_(disambiguation)" text at the top. M0ffx 11:41, 23 June 2006 (UTC)
In the lead section, instead of using peacock terms like 'top footballer', 'elite', 'genius', 'magician' - why not simply state that he's been tha FIFA World Player of the Year three times? The guidelines are pretty clear on this. Eixo 14:23, 28 May 2006 (UTC)
This article needs serious clean up, not only is thier a lack of references, but its make ourageous claims, such as bieng the best plyer of this genration and the of all time. The third and fourth paragraphs, are just as bad, from the claims that he was the best of the real madrid team, by reputation alone, to claims that its due to his abscence that France, exited the world cup. Another tag of weasel words will also be put up. Very misleading article. ( 212.219.97.7 11:48, 16 June 2006 (UTC))
Agree with above person. Statements like "Zidane is often considered to be the best footballer of his generation [citation needed] , and one of the greatest footballers of all time", "one of the game's finest artists", and the France 2002 losing because of him are suspect. Skinnyweed 20:54, 17 June 2006 (UTC)
I've done a basic clean-up, removing a lot of the gushing about what an amazing player etc. Some still remains, though it is generally accapted that Zidane is "one of the game's finest artists". The Arabic translation of the name remains, though perhaps it should be gone as there doesn't seem to be any justification for it.
I don't know what to do with this paragraph: "Zidane is one of the football icons of his generation and is known to be modest, quiet and self-admittedly shy. As a Guardian feature article says, however, Zidane also has occasional flashes of aggression on the pitch. One such display of aggression occurred when Zidane was red carded for headbutting Jochen Kientz in a 2000/2001 Champions League match for Juventus against Hamburger SV. He also stamped on a player in the 1998 World Cup and received a straight red card." It is currently under "legacy", which does not seem right, and the mention of the stamping incident is a repetition. Beev 23:06, 1 July 2006 (GMT)
I've cleaned up some of the article; also moving the final game section to the club career section; seems to fit better there. -- Dococ23 18:11, 3 July 2006 (UTC)
Let's agree to remove the disambig info, just because somebody has the same last name as somebody doesn't mean they deserve a redirect on that person's page, especially not for a minor fictor character. Should an article on Alan Jones have a disambig for all people sharing the name Jones? Mackan 03:45, 18 June 2006 (UTC)
The vast majority of people typing Zidane into a wikipedia search will be looking for Zinedine, thus it is sensible for Zidane to redirect here. However since a few may looking for others, the {{ redirect}} tag, that Muchness has just added, is sensible. M0ffx 11:59, 23 June 2006 (UTC)
I was wondering if someone could put his place of birth at the very beginning at the aritcle, so people wanting to quickly check his place of birth don't have to look hard.
68.78.137.203 ( talk • contribs) added He is ALGERIAN to the bottom of the first paragraph, which I reverted. I have no knowledge of the player, so I am moving the comment here for further discussion. -- TeaDrinker 21:12, 23 June 2006 (UTC) He is a dual national French and Algerian. As a French born person of Algerian parentage he is entitled to both nationalities and under Algerian law, he cannot lose his Algerian nationality. Kusyel.
i read earlier that he was of kurdish decent...........his middle name is an anchient kurdish religion what happen to that phrase why was it takin out? just wondering?
It was claimed that Platini is "the best French player of all time" in Platini's page.. Ofcourse, Platini is a great player, but the claim seems abit dated. Shouldn't this goes to Zidane, since if some recent basis exits, his 3 trophies of best player of the year, many of his peers testomonies, UEFA Golden Jubilee Poll are just few sources .. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UEFA_Golden_Jubilee_Poll -- 86.16.113.121
ZXCZXC
There is no point talking about who is "the best" as this will always be strictly POV. Platini's page says he is "arguably the best French player of all time", which is probably quite a fair statement, though it might be more accurate to say "he is considered to be one of the best French players of all time". Of course, the same could be said about Zidane, and it would be accurate to say the same thing about both players.
"Zidane is often considered to be the best footballer of his generation" -- I think this statement in the opening paragraph of Zidane's article is seriously pushing the boundaries of impartiality. It's based an article which is full of praise for Zidane, in the same way that such articles always praise their subject. The author has clearly gathered together a small amount of evidence to support his view, and does not present any other possible alternative views. Not entirely convincing. Beev
Should we add anything in the trivia about Zidane's trademark move? Did he even invent it himself?
hmm. yes and no. didnt Maradona do a similar thing..? im not too sure maybe someone can look into it. Or he has his own style of Maradona's move. im really not sure so dont flame me for being confused :P
^yea good point. he does it so smoothly. i would support it if it was added.
If the time says 26:32 for example, they're in the 27th minute, not the 26th. That's was the case with the goal against Portugal, it was the 33rd minute, not the 32nd Soxrock 19:54, 5 July 2006 (UTC)
This has two possible problems so I removed the description of the player's birth place: Firstly, it seems to be conjecture if no link is provided with decent evidence to demonstrate the point (specifically about the area La Castellane). Secondly, and (academically unless it is re-inserted by someone)I am prepared to take the flak on this - 'hardscrabble' is not, in my opinion, a well recognised adjective to non US English speakers. I'm British and I had to guess the meaning from the context so I would imagine non-native English speakers would have more trouble. He is a joy to watch though as I am sure all the contributors will agree. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 84.92.214.41 ( talk • contribs) 00:31, 9 July 2006 (UTC).
I'm in the US and I have never heard anything like "hardscrabble" before either. For the sake of curiousity, could someone please define it?
RSimione
03:13, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
That was my edit (always forgetting password). Sorry, I assumed it was a US word as it appears in answers.com as: hard·scrab·ble (härd'skrăb'əl) adj. Earning a bare subsistence, as on the land; marginal: the sharecropper's hardscrabble life.
Stop all of this illiterate comments, no need to keep stressing on this event. Zinedine Zidane is a wonderful player and I believe there is no one, absolutely no one who can play as close to how he does. He is a very gentle, calm and kind person. He was *provoked* and that's all; that is why that incident happened.
Put yourselves in his place, what would you have done if someone tried to insult your mother (the one who gave birth and raised you from the day you were born)? What would you have done if you hear such torrid and dirty talking about your elders? For me, I would have killed that bastard!! I am very proud of Zinedine Zidane. He deserves much much more than a world cup.
"Nothing is more valuable than a mother, not even a world cup"...
So, I feel proud of you Zinedine. You remain and will always remain the best ever player I have ever seen on this planet throughout my entire life! God bless you.
I think this need to be locked. I can see that there is alot of people that likes Zidane career, but this is getting too anoying to see that people thinks that what Zidane did in reaction to cursing words. Its wrong to protect Zidane for his action and bash on Materazzi. Both are wrong, but words are said on every game, and violence is not accepted. What does mean for your "FAIR PLAY" campaign that FIFA wanted for this cup? What Zidane done was worst than anything that Materazzi said, lets accept this, its a fact. Fungos Bauux 14:05, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
Sure, some might think that Zinedine Zidane's reaction to Materazzi's insult was not handled the right way? As far as I am concerned, I have followed Zidane's career through the years, and in my opinion, he was a really calm and quiet person. Not only that, but there was an extreme amount of pressure on Zidane. First, he was injured in the shoulder, and that caused him to suffer a lot in the game. second, he was becoming frustrated because of their teams' playing. He attempted to score on the Italians a few times but failed. All of this built a lot of pressure on him. Finally, when Materazzi, and his insultive manners got to Zidane, he was just frustrated, mad, and confused. He could not take any more and he just let Materazzi have it. As far as I am concerned, this is the only physical attack that Zidane attempted in his career. Personally, I am proud of Zidane for doing what he thought was suitable. After all of this, the French people were still proud of what he did. I really don't care if you don't like what I wrote but this is my opinion and this is what a lot of people around the world think as well. By the way, the GIF image does not work on Imageshack and stuff. Put it on a real sharing website such as rapidshare.de . After that, include the GIF image link to rapidshare so we can download it. if you don't wanna do that, then just host it on a website of one of yours.
I don't dispute the red card, it's standard procedure for violent play. But I want to know what Materazzi said that would have provoked Zizou to do what he did. Nobody's really seen something like that from Zizou since the Saudi incident. It's like Zizou in 1989, fresh off the streets of Marseille. Doesn't verbal assault warrant a yellow card? I would have been happy if Materazzi got some off-field sanction for playing dirty. I also agree with Domenech. Although I was fully in support of Italy during their match versus Germany, I was ashamed at the fragility they showed by rolling on the ground without having been touched by any Germans. Seriously, stop shaming football like that. Trtskh 04:20, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
Someone replace the animated gif with a static image... it's utterly annoying to see the same loop repeated over and over again, and links to videos are at the bottom. -mrbartjens 00:29, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
I think this needs to be included in Zidane's page eventually. I saw someone added it before but it was considered vandalizing. That's some of the worst I've ever seen in a world cup and coming from Zidane of all players! The only worse I've ever seen in soccer is the compilation of soccer fights they have at Youtube, just search soccer fights and you'll know what I mean. It's notable fights over the past few years done to "Fight Music" by D-12
Including the headbutt is fine but the stuff in the "Legacy" section is a little over the top.
i agree that we should add the headbutt incident, people need to be informed. -- Zaid Ibrahim 21:52, 9 July 2006 (UTC)
The above statement is just plain wrong. Zidane is known to the world as a footballer. His football career is the reason this article exists. How that career ended should be in the summary opening paragraphs, as those paragraphs should outline his career.
I'm a zidane fan myself. But we can't let loyalty to him overcome good editing! The ending of his career was a shoking, notable event. It deserves to be put into the end of the opening paragraphs. -- Wikipediastar 21:18, 9 July 2006 (UTC)
Just my opinion: Zidane won´t be most remembered for his actions at the World Cup 98 but for this disgraceful end of his career. I think it should be included at the beginning of the article.
Don't you think that video showing the headbutt is a little extreme and ridiculous? I think it should be removed.
Zidanes headbutt did nothing but to cement how much of a badass he was. Not only did he just headbutt Materazzi (remember he scored the equaliser) he didn't come back to collect his medal. Comradeash 21:23, 9 July 2006 (UTC)
Nah, I strongly disagree, just take Eric Cantona for instance, he has done far worse and nothing is mentioned in the first paragraph. This is just one match on hundreds Zidane has played.
Apparantly he is also the first person to be thrown out of the game during overtime during a world cup final. Just thought it might be significant.
to be fair for years to come if u mention his name people will think of the headbutt. Millions worldwide will have seen it. He was representing his country in the world cup final. A football fan will remember him as an awesome footballer who let himslef down in that game. A non-fan will purely remember the headbutt. It looks fine as is now and edits in reference to the headbutt should be added when there is more information. If they investigated the Rooney stamp they will certainly investigate this.
SenorKristobbal
22:33, 9 July 2006 (UTC)
This man is a legend.... I just saw him destroy his legend by headbutting an Italian clean in the chest. This is Incredible! (incredibly bad)-- 81.152.13.190 20:22, 9 July 2006 (UTC)
i dont understand why he of all people would do that... 71.254.210.160 20:26, 9 July 2006 (UTC)
Absolutely horrible.-- 156.34.30.141 20:27, 9 July 2006 (UTC)
What the hell did Materazzi say to him!?!?
Apparently that idiot Materazzi twisted his left nipple and it irked Zidane.
oh my god...i am so disappointed.
SUCKER HEADBUTT FOR THE FUCKING WIN!!!! Zidane>ALL.
video of the headbutting: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NBV52GPhNjw&feature=Recent&page=6&t=t&f=b
video of materazzi doing all sorts of nasty stuff: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EpG4AHlZrL4&search=Materazzi
I don't think Zidan's headbutt was that big a deal. It wasn't as bad as Rooney's stomp. And if Zidane was trying to hurt the guy, he would have hit him in the face. [He totally deserved the red card though]
-Rooney's stomp hardly looked intentional. Zidane was PISSED, straight headbutted him in the CHEST.
~If Zidane didn't want to hurt him, then headbutting him in the chest was a pretty odd thing to do.
the french president gave him a "presidential rebuke" for that. he said, "i regret that the most "beautiful" sportsman in our country doesn't have the most beautiful moral quality". i think it is still important to highlight this. however, the french people still support him, in the champs élysées in paris, the ppl are chanting "merci zizou zizou zizou" and "merci les bleus". it seems that he is still highly regarded by the french people. watch TF1 for more information -- Zaid Ibrahim 21:49, 9 July 2006 (UTC)
the corrupt french president talkng about morals..LOL!!...Materazzi is a disgrace and I hope this incident brings some attention to name calling on the pitch...It must have been something very personal to make zidane react in this way....and after his great career , I would hardly think that this incident (headbutting a big-mouth Italian) will be the most famous lasting memory of him..
ZIDANE'S DESERVED RED CARD ALLOW ITALY TO WIN IN PKs. If Zidane was there then they wouldn't have missed one!
this needs to be removed: Ultimately, Zidane will be remembered for the numerous disgraceful antics throughout his career. The world cup sendings off and general disgrace to football. The French player will be remembered for having fantastic skill and poise but, more often than not, a lack of end product and ultimate disappointment. Overrated by many of his contemporaries, history will see this cheat sidelined as no more than an accessory to his relatively few achievements. -- 74.65.173.130 21:24, 9 July 2006 (UTC)
It does not explain his actions, but Materazzi was at fault as well. He provoked Zidane verbally and this bone head move was retaliation.
Norum 09.07.2006
Materazzi got WTFPWNED by Zidane. Then Zidane got WTFPWNED by the referee, possibly costing his team the game. Seems fair to me :-D Cyde↔Weys 21:30, 9 July 2006 (UTC)
It may have been due to the fact that player was holding him back. Some have said - This should be an encyclopedia and then we read this!!! I think it should be removed as long as there no objectif source. -- Jangli 21:46, 9 July 2006 (UTC)
The itallian player instigated the whole thing by pinching zidane's nipple. Of course a badass like Zidane is going to headbutt you in the chest, it really should come as no suprise to anyone. In fact,Zidane's personal motto is "A pinch of the nipple deserves a headbutt to the chest, unless you're a chick, then its cool." That player was most certainly NOT a chick.
someone needs to explain why zidane headbutted that italian guy -- Zaid Ibrahim 21:55, 9 July 2006 (UTC)
I think someone should consider removing or at least editing the sentence at the end of the introduction that suggests that Zidane's legacy "might be tarnished" as a result of the headbutt. This is an encyclopedia, and we are not prognosticators. Let's leave time for a little perspective to sink in and let history, not a bunch of overzealous football fans with way too much emotional involvement right now, decide. fyfh99 22:43, 9 July 2006 (UTC)
Personally I think link to images and/or videos of the headbutt are relevant. It might be a low point in his career but that does not mean it did not happen. It is also especially relevant since there was a lot of talk about this match being his final international appearance and for him to be thrown out of the match IS a notable event. sikander 21:57, 9 July 2006 (UTC)
I think it should stay for a couple of weeks at least, and then removed when the story dies down. -- Burgas00 22:11, 9 July 2006 (UTC)
Perhaps the Rooney stamping incident should be included. Either way, in such an important game, especially as it was his last, it should be included. Only by watching the clip can one understand how malicious the incident was.
A simple image is fine in this case. An image of an event can be used in this article since it is impossible to go back in time and get a free one. I know you all love this guy but the image has to stay.-- God Ω War 22:52, 9 July 2006 (UTC) Headbutt Image
Seeing that link to the image of the headbutt incident, I think someone should include a link to this video http://www.youtube.com/w/Zidane-(El-Placer-De-Mira)?v=H9sL_mfrFcw&search=zidane , just to be fair to the guy, who is undoubtedly one of the best football players who have ever lived -- 82.126.244.242 23:15, 9 July 2006 (UTC)vug
No, to be fair to the guy we would need to see the whole sequence of events along with what was said. Zidane and the guy are talking, Zidane starts to walk away, and then something happens to make Zidane turn around and head butt the guy. Is this anymore shaming that his other displays of anger? Punched a guy with AS Cannes, head butted Jochen Kientz in champions league match, stomped on a Saudian Arabian player in 1998 world cups. http://www.kabyles.com/article.php3?id_article=2271 My respect for him has not lessened. He is a very passionate player and is intensely loyal to his roots and his people. You can see after the heat of the moment that he regretted his actions. Sometimes these things happen. -- Barnetto 00:35, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
There are a lot of wikipedians who aren't frequent editors who decided to take part in this article purely due to the headbutt. I think the best thing to do is keep it as it is with small bits about the headbutt and in a couple of weeks a new discussion with the wikipedians who are still around to decide how the article should address the headbutt in the long term. SenorKristobbal 23:20, 9 July 2006 (UTC)
I would like to change a word in the last sentence of the first paragraph, from "controversy" to "ignominy". Is that OK? Mwinog2777 23:43, 9 July 2006 (UTC)
Lol,why vandelism,I don't see anything wrong. And yet some wiki-idiot screwed it up,Oh,well.
Oh wait,there is. There's the phrase FORZA AZUR written like that in all caps....anyone loves to have fun here.
Please someone remove the FORZA AZZURRI!!!!!!!!!! It's really awfull that we can keep this site serious.
An animated gif is really necesary? I think you guys are acting like a newspaper. I dont see any gif with he's champions league goal to win the cup or with any of the two 1998 goals against brazil in the final. This play is not representative of his career, i dont see this as an enciclopedia entry but a tabloid one. I hope in two weaks that gif is gone.
ATTENTION: Do you have the RIGHTS on the television snapshot to post it here?
What's going on? Somebody comes here asking PLEASE PLEASE and you guys put the gif back up? Seriously?
if anyone is interested, i have placed a video of this incident on youtube -- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yOGL9y-ggVU
feel free to use if you feel it is revalant.
He's been sent off 14 times, e.g. stamping on a Saudi player in the 1998 World Cup; headbutting Jochen Kientz of Hamburg SV in the Champions League. Great player but sadly the end was fairly typical of the career.
There's no need for an animation or a picture of the headbutt. I think that it's irrelevant, especially considering the length of this article. Zidane is mostly known from his excellent playing skills, not from his sometimes quick temper. Of course the incident should be mentioned in the article but a gif would be exaggeration. Or if there would be a gif of the headbutt, then there should be at least five gifs of some of his best moments on the field. Windtalker 18:45, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
Why would you remove that animation? I loved it... at least post it here or on the article... I thought the whole thing was awesome... I think it is a great way to end his career fighting against racist pigs. Nice. Erpals 4:47, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
Stop changeing the info about why he did it. Why does it matter why he headbutted the Italian player. If he's so sensitive to cost his team a world cup, maybe he's not the great player his fans tout him as. Mental stability is part of being a great athlete. Do you see Lance Armstrong get off his bike after being SPIT on by German fans to headbutt them? No, he continues on to victory. Sticks and stones and all that.
Why does everbody discuss here why Zidane did this headbutt? This is an encyclopedia, not a forum. I think a reference to this headbutt is part of it... but not the allegations that are done to it... except if anyone can proove something serious. I found sources citing he said "terrorist", insulted his family, insulting his relgion... and so on. So if nobody knows, why put it in an encyclopedia? Just lets leave it there. --
Jangli
22:44, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
Zidane was one of the best soccer players alive, he can do magic with his feet. Anyone who watches soccer can appreciate his skills and abilities. On the other hand, Materazzi is not a football player, he is a scumbag or at best a gangster off the street of Rome in my opinion. He does not play soccer, he was hired by the Italian team to injure and disable the opponents' players so that the team had an advantage to win. Without the dirty tactics, the Italian team wouldn't even make it to the final. If you don't trust me see for yourself in this video [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ImAjXdTKfjg&mode=related&search=Materazzi] & [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7HblsV-urHg] it is a compilation of how this guy plays. Notice how he aims his kicks at other players' knees, back, chest, and face. He is malicious and evil. I could not believe he wasn't banned from playing soccer at all. I believe the racial slur was just the last straw that broke Zidane's camel back. The World Cup final was shown around the world to a billion TV viewers. The truth will come out whether you believe the proof or not. I feel sorry for Zidane that such a top rank world class champion would sacraficed his chance to win the trophy just because of this scumbag. It was a mistake he may regret, but that headbutt was well done. I am not French nor Italian, I just gave me opinion as an observer. Italy won the trophy without honor. Shame on Italy. Kowloonese 04:58, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
People keep demonizing Materazzi and claiming he "provoked" Zidane. Yet, this could simply have been a mutual exchange of obscenities or what Materazzi said could have been provoked by something Zidane said or did. There is no proof to substanitate anything at this point and any opinion or theory is baseless and most likely based on biases in favour of one team or one player over another. However, Zidane is not the calm, cool, and collected player his fans claim him to be. He has often exploded into spontaneous acts of violence including headbutts and stomping on players with a clear attempt to injure. While Zidane may have been a great player, albeit perhaps a bit overrated, his legacy as a violent offender will probably be remembered alongside his accomplishments. His headbutt to Materazzi was just one in a long list of Zidane offences. To suggest Zidane cost France the World Cup, however, is ridiculous. He was inneffective all game except for the PK and a header that Buffon stopped. Had Zidane taken a PK he may have missed. Certainly, Trezeguet still would have taken a PK and missed. Italy are deserving of their win and it should have actually come in regular time as France's PK came as a result of a clear dive by the French player and Italy did score a second goal which was called offside even though the player who scored was onside and the offside player was passive/inactive; numerous goals have been allowed to stand when this has been the case.
I know by this I sound completely ignorant, selfish, childish, etc., but that's the least of my concern right now. I love Zidane and by him getting sent off with a red card has just put Materazzi as my personal sworn enemy. I cried when I sat there on the floor, watching Zidane walking out of the field. That's just so sad! Is it true that the Italian guy did that to Zidane's nipple?? Disgusting! And what about that lip-reading translation? Is it correct? Why, France could have won!!! 202.73.122.227 10:01, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
The head-butt incident is, as expected, receiving quite a bit of attention globally. But I wonder why Zidane's page needs to have all the up-to-the-minute information? Why don't we wait a few days to see what is concluded from the episode and then put some a short description of the incident. I strongly disagree in having such a large section (in comparison to the rest of the article) for the 2006 world cup and this incident. syim 18:14, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
There's been made a game out of the headbutting incident: http://www.hyggestedet.dk/index.asp?game=zidane Have fun ;)
hey, man that Zidane headbutting incident was ridiculous even if the italian guy (matzioni or something) said something to him all ya gotta do is ignore it, not headbutt him like a child
will of vacnouver
Oh yes... the headbutt incident is now an apparent YTMND fad. It is appropriate to add this in the article?
KnucklesEchidna
11:41, 12 July 2006 (UTC)
I think this headbutt thing might be overused in this article, last I checked there were three pictures, two of the headbutt incident. One of the images I can see why it should be there, but should it really be used as the main pic?
I'm suggesting that the headbutt issue with regards to Zinedine Zidane be moved to a seperate section, where entire transcripts of interviews with Zidane and Materazzi, as well as attempts by lip readers to decipher what was said on the pitch could be documented in full. At least we know that a few lip readers got it right, with their transcriptions tallying with Zidane's latest interview. r4ge 11:27, 13 July 2006 (UTC)
Head butted for the win, france fails yet again
The Daily Mail and several other sources have stated that the remarks were a racial slur based on some lip reader that they apparently hired. I have seen it slightly differently in different sources, but if we can find what the original was, I think its worthy of inclusion. As this is a current event and details can change rapidly, we should be careful to attribute this specifically. Here's the link: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=395046&in_page_id=1770 savidan (talk) (e@) 04:17, 12 July 2006 (UTC)
> On August 12, 2004, after France's performance in the Euro 2004, losing to eventual winners Greece, Zidane retired from international football.
This should say "losing to eventual winner Greece" or something like that. Unless football is really special and single teams are treated in the plural, which really makes no sense -- but hey, sports are strange.
> On July 9th, 2006, Zidane became one of only four footballers to achieved the feat of scoring in two different World Cup final matches
"to" is supposed to operate with infinitive form words (achieve), not conjugated ones (achieved).
that said, a lot of the "prose" in this article leaves an editor to be desired.
21:07, 9 July 2006 (UTC)
-- Sports teams and similar can be spoken about both in plurar and singular.
Take that nonsense off about what the Italian said. It hasnt been proven yet. First he called him a terrorista now he insulted his family...blah blah blah. Also, I love the article makes it seem like Zidane was just listening to him. It's obvious as hell that they were jarring back and forth. So your telling me that Zidane invited him for a tour of his vineyard and Matterazi said your mother is a terrorist whore???? The way it is written has obvious favoritism towards Zidane.
---
-Anyways ya sry that was me that was vandilizing, thought i think some of my info should stay up there, but i totaly agree if you want to remove the whole pwned chest plate thing.-
There seem to be various "new members" or IPs coming in here confusing this talk page with a forum. Wikipedia talk pages are not forums and they shouldn't be. Please leave your feelings about the match at the door and only talk about content relevant to improving the article. If this continues I'll ask an administrator to semi-protect this page.-- Jersey Devil 00:25, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
That's entirely correct. There are plenty of chatboards where any man can go and say whatever he pleases. This page is only for discussion about the article. I am an old man, and an American; I know nothing and care less about soccer. I can and will act with complete impartiality to remove any off-topic commentary unrelated to the editing of this page. Tom Harrison Talk 01:27, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
Hah.. funny. thanks for keeping it on the Talk page, too. Kether83 02:31, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
Who removed all of the external links? Zeeg 06:22, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
Currently, the text is as follows:
"Despite this [The Headbutt], on July 10, 2006, Zidane was awarded the Golden Ball"
This is intentionally misleading. It should be added that - though the Golden Ball was announced on the 10th - it was voted for *BEFORE* the Headbutt (ie, during Halftime) and, as such, it was not awarded _despite_ the offense, but rather _before_ the offense. 83.132.98.175 13:19, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
Actually, the voting schedule for the Golden Ball was changed. In 2002, voting was done up to half-time of the final match; this was changed so that voting reflected all 64 games played this year. [http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2006/soccer/specials/world_cup/2006/07/06/bc.eu.spt.soc.wcup.fifa.ap/index.html] -- Madchester 14:34, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
This is a minor point, but an editor has been rewording the article to say that voting for the Golden Ball was close. Per WP:OR, an edit counts as original research if "it introduces an analysis or synthesis of established facts, ideas, opinions, or arguments in a way that builds a particular case favored by the editor, without attributing that analysis or synthesis to a reputable source"
That is the case here, because the editor is interpreting the facts without citing a reference to support the interpretation. If a reliable source cannot be found that characterizes the voting as close, we should simply state the result of the ballot as reported in the referenced article. -- Muchness 08:27, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
There were rumors of a slur causing Zidane to lose his cool in '98.[http://football.guardian.co.uk/worldcup2006/comment/story/0,,1816900,00.html] However, as noted here, there has been no suggestion of that for the 2006 incident yet.[http://football.guardian.co.uk/worldcup2006/story/0,,1816934,00.html] I changed this in the Trivia section. If anyone has something that says otherwise, please reference it. Vickser 14:32, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
I also noticed that the slur was mentioned in the final game section. There's no article cited that says that, so I've removed it. Vickser 15:13, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
I do not understand how a Saudi Arab can "racially" abuse an Algerian Berber, please enlighten me. Is it not like a German "racially" abusing an Englishman?
I don't understand how Sunni Muslims can go out and round up Shiite Muslims and slaughter them, with the only way of distinguishing targets being looking at the last name on the national ID card (and picking out traditional Shiite last names), but there it is. -- Cyde↔Weys 18:30, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
The slur used by the Saudi player was "harki" which means Algerian who fought for France against Algeria. Some are alleging that this was the one used yesterday. Makgraf 19:32, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
APPARENTLY ZIDANE WAS CALLED AN "ARAB TERRORIST" BY MATERAZZI... AND THEN HE HEADBUTTED THE FASCIST ITALIAN IN THE CHEST PLATE! Erpals 19:32, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
There is no proof that Materazzi is a fascist.
ITV News has just reported that the slur was "I slept with your mother last night" Zindane then walked away at which point Matterazzi then said "Your mother is an Algerian whore" this is when Zidane turned and headbutted him. What upset Zidane was that his mother was taken into hospital yesterday and he was extremely worried about her. This was on the ITV News program at 10:30pm but I can't find an oline reference. (
AurgornN
22:11, 10 July 2006 (UTC))
At this point it;'s all speculation as to what was said and done. Get a bunch of "professional" lip readers and you'll get numerous different interpretations. Already, we have lip readers suggesting it was racist slur and others saying it was something to do with Zidane's mother, sister, and/or wife. Regardless, from reading the news stories stated or referenced above it seems both players are at fault for what happened asthey were insulting each other back and forth. Why blame only Materazzi?
Why so many informations about 2006 world cup and so few about that of 1998 when Zidane won the tournament?-- Pokipsy76 15:30, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
I agree with this comment. This page is supposed to be an encyclopedia entry of Zinedine Zidane, with emphasis on both the highlights and lowlights of his career. Breaking out the 2006 World Cup because of its timeliness but neglecting to include the 1998 World Cup, which arguably is what made him a "legend," presents a distorted view of Zidane's career. So does including a picture of the headbutt but not including a picture of Zidane scoring one of his headers in 1998 or performing his spin-o-rama move.
Another possibility would be to condense the 2006 World Cup entry to a couple of paragraphs. The Maradona and Pele entries, for instance, do not break out detail for any particular World Cup. If we use the Zidane article as a precedent, it means that we will need to add a "1986 World Cup" entry to Maradona and a "1990 World Cup" entry for Lothar Matthaus.
Please do not mistake this comment for a defense of The Headbutt. This only goes to improve the balance of this entry. — Aviado 21:37, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
"Zidane is the first and only player to be sent off in two separate non-consecutive World Cup finals (1998 against Saudi Arabia, and 2006 against Italy)." The 1998 final was between France and Brazil. This is incorrect. Smitty Mcgee 16:17, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
It is not incorrect, I think 'finals' means the whole tournament, as opposed to the 'final', which is the last game.
ZZ would be the greatest footballer of all times but one thing is lacking patient.
A cameroon player was the first to be sent off in two world cups. I dont have the link. But that info , saying zz is the first, is definitely incorrect.
Wikipedia is an encyclopedia, not a blog or an AP feed. As such, an image of Zidane receiving a red card is not notable enough to be inserted in the article, especially when there is only one other image of him (which is isolated in the infobox). One cannot reasonably expect to see an image of Zidane's headbutt when one does not see images of him at award's banquets when he is receiving FIFA Player of the Year honours or UEFA's Best Footballer of the Past 50 Years. One must put things in perspective. If any picture is inserted in regards to the 2006 FIFA World Cup, it should be of the most notable event, which is obviously him winning the Golden Ball award, not receiving a red card. I'm going to remove the picture and I propose not replacing it without acheiving consensus here on the talk page hoopydink Conas tá tú? 16:33, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
Not notable? Surely you're joking. This has been talked about around the world. It might not be very flattering to him, but it is certainly extremely notable. -- Asbl 17:46, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
Not the defining moment? It is regretably a big stain on his career. He will forever be remembered by that incident. -- Asbl 18:15, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
The fact of the matter is that Mr. Zidane physically attacked anouther player in front of an audiance of at least 1 Billion people. To say that this event, particularly as it just happened does not warrant coverage, especially on the grounds that it would unfairly tarnish his reputation, is silly. What ever happened to letting people see the incident for themselves and allowing them to make up their own mind? Because right now the section on the incident is focused on why he did it, which is very purely speculation. why on earth is that more notable than coverage of the event itself?
As the event just happened, I think we need to keep speculation to a minimum, allow people to see the event for themselves (provide a link), and refrain from adding or taking anything from the section on his legacy for a few weeks untill the situation has settled and become more cleer. -- Brandon Warzybok 19:19, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
Just because it makes him look bad it doesn't mean it shouldn't be provided. The picture is quite small and is near the bottom of the article. Just because there isn't pictures showing how sucessful he is doesn't mean it prevents his failures being put up does it? I just get the feeling you are defending him and removing a very notable image from the article. Remember, this wasn't just the world cup final this was his final international match.-- Andeh 19:22, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
Putting a picture of him headbutting the player in the main box is a little too much. I agree it would lead people who don't watch the game to think it is all he is famous for. I do support putting the links and picture next to the paragraph about the incident so others can see it. Defining moment of his career: No, you would be ignorant to think that. Important issue: Yes and that is why it should be shown in the article User:K-Flow
I believe that we should review this matter after a few weeks. It seems that people are still very emotional about this incident, afterall the game was played only 24 hours ago.
--
Windtalker
19:52, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
On July 9, 2006, Zidane became one of only four footballers to achieve the feat of scoring in two different World Cup final matches (he scored twice in the 1998 FIFA World Cup final), sharing the honour with Pelé, Paul Breitner, and Vavá. He scored in the seventh minute from the penalty spot. He nearly headed in the ball during the first period of extra time but it was saved by Gianluigi Buffon. His career ended in disgrace when he was sent off for violent conduct after headbutting Italy's goalscorer, Marco Materazzi, in the chest in the 110th minute. The game ended in a 1-1 draw and Italy won the championship after a penalty kick shootout. His agent, Alain Migliaccio has claimed that a "very serious" comment by Matterazzi provoked the attack.<ref>{{cite news |url=http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/world_cup_2006/teams/france/5164094.stm |title=Zidane blamed Materazzi comment |publisher=BBC Sport |date=[[2006-07-10]] |accessdate=2006-07-10}}</ref> He was the fourth person to have been sent off in a World Cup final and the first to be sent off during extra time.
Its also only fair to include that Matterazzi denied the claims if we want to include the claims of Zidane's agent at all. -- Brandon Warzybok 19:37, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
Looks like someone has put the image back up already, I'll leave it on as I really don't see any reason not to have it up.-- Andeh 20:51, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
The section has too much speculation and unsubstanciated claims again. If we dont know things for sure at this point i think we really need to leave it out. -- Brandon Warzybok 21:01, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
Not notable enough? Not notable!??! Are you kidding? It's reckoned that a billion people saw that match. And guess what they're still talking about. It's still in the news in England - several front page stories of national newspapers today, both "heavies" and tabloids. Not notable? Do me a lemon. It's one of the biggest football stories ever. "What did Materazzi say" has become the "Who shot JR Ewing" of football. -- Dweller 14:44, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
A minor note but it mentions Zidane was sent off in the 2006 World Cup final in over time. There is no such thing as over time in football, it is called Extra Time.
What languages does he speak- bbc news used a lipreader to see what the Italian defender said to him that meade him headbut the guy- but unless Zidane speaks Italian how could that be- maybe the defender speaks French?
Again, why I want all speculation not confirmed by Zidane or Materazzi not included in this article. -- Brandon Warzybok 21:49, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
It is stated on the page under the 2006 World Cup Finals header that he heard his family was involved in 9/11. This is obviously vandalism and ought to be deleted.
Yes, ive removed that section in my last edit. It was blatant vandalism. I also removed the two claims of what Materazzi said. in a few weeks when people and the sports writers begin to calm down and stop speculating we will better be able to piece together what happened, but seeing as we dont even know what language the players were argueing in to include what one media group is claiming is just not warranted at this point. -- Brandon Warzybok 22:00, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
A few moments ago some large black letters were displayed lower on the page. They were mixed up so I wasn't able to understand what wass written, but based on the previous comments, it was probably something by some rightwing-extremist. But it looks like somebody removed it now. Thanks.
Because whenever something bad is said it must be from some dirty right winger...
Yes you american fascist go awaty
Being accused of being a terrorist might be an insult in the US or UK that have recently suffered from bombings, but would not be used between a French and an Italian. Krouic 10:56, 13 July 2006 (UTC)
since many media outlets are "translating" different comments that are in some cases totaly different from one anouther, i think we really need to remove all speculative comments untill one is confirmed or substanciated in a better way. -- Brandon Warzybok 00:42, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
I agree. Then again, can we PLEASE give more prottection to this page and leave editing till there is some common sense here? It is ridicolous to have that video put and removed several times. That is NOT representative of zidane carrer's. This is NOT a newspaper, not a link dump, not a tabloid, but a enciclopedia. Our respect for the guy (or hate for what matteers) has nothing to do with his wikipedia entry. -- phantom
Under the picture of Zidane's headbutt that were recently added, includes a link to a video clip of the incident on youtube. The creators comments for the video clip on youtube are: "See the stupidity of Zidane as he headbutt's an Italian player for Unknown reasons.". There are dozens of versions of this same clip on youtube, most of which have neutral comments. Is this vandalism and should the link be changed to a version of the clip with netural comments in regards to the incident? - User:pallfy 21:37, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
"for Unknown reasons" the unbeatable stupidity is to claim that Zidane headbutted Materazzi without any reason which the "unknown" implies. it was obvious that Materazzi cheated he was holding Zidane (as seen on the video) and he told him things, which can be assumed as cursing. BTW the FIFA has removed the videos from youtube on July 11th 2006.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/world_cup_2006/teams/france/5164094.stm
This link is listed double under the header 'notes'; how does one fix this?
Kevin Hughes
01:51, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
Apparaently the headbutt are becoming a meme. What are we going to do with this. SYSS Mouse 03:09, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
Materazzi, meanwhile, has absolutely denied the terrorist comment. "It is absolutely not true, I didn't call him a terrorist, I don't know anything about that," Materazzi said when he arrived back at an Italian military airfield. "What happened is what all the world saw live on TV," he said, referring to the head-butting. Sjc 06:21, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
This article has some serious NPOV issues. There is no mention of the red card in the legacy section, although this is clearly part of his legacy now.
Has the world gone mad?
Has everyone found their chance to come up with their own conclusions with no adequate and true theories? Why is it that individuals thrive for their needs and rights through lies, hatred, and racism? Why do people conclude that the insults shared by both parties were racial? There are two issues applied here and these are their roots !
Stereotyping Muslims: Many argues that Zidane proved himself to be a true Muslim through his aggressiveness. It is funny how once a star, Zidane was never referred to as a Muslim, and now that he had shown a little of his bitter side, he has become a Muslim. This is how far our world has been victim of hypocrisy and deception. It makes me sick to hear and see that people believe that "Once an Angel he's all yours, and once a devil he becomes Muslim".
A Window to Vengence: On the other side, people lack to understand that there is enough tension toward Muslims. It irritates me to see that the rumors were said to be "He called him a terrorist" or even better "He insulted Islam and Muslims". If that argument was to happen between Toni and Henry I am sure such accusation would not apply. As a Muslim myself, it is sad to see that with all the struggles encountered by Muslims, they still thrive for more, and that with all the struggle caused by the others, they too crave for more. The part that cracks me up the most is having the media as well as all these noisy people trying to translate by reading lips. Are people going mad? You can't come up with conclusions like that.
My suggestion to this issue is to get an explaination from both Zinedine Zidane, and Marco Materazzi before making up our own conclusions and provoking the world ! Lebanese in USA 17:05, 11 July 2006 (UTC)Nøŗma
THE SECTION REPORTING THE LIP-READING TRANSCRIPT IS TOTALLY MISLEADING: IT GIVES THE IMPRESSION THAT THE TRANSCRIPTS AGREE OR COMPLEMENT EACH OTHER. HOWEVER, THERE ARE AT LEAST 3 DIFFERENT VERSIONS THAT HAVE BEEN PRODUCED BY NON-ITALIAN LIP-READERS (two reported by BBC http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/world_cup_2006/5169342.stm and one from a brazilian TV channel) - AND THEY ARE COMPLETELY DIFFERENT: one is wishing the death of Zidane's family, another one is an insult to Zidane's sister.
THIS SECTION SHOULD BE EITHER REMOVED OR COMPLETELY REPHRASED. 131.111.225.73 18:19, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
Anyone find it odd that the papers don't agree but threw several diffrent extremely offensive remarks out, I think this is a case of the media trying to cause (even more) controversy for plubicity 24.237.198.91 21:46, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
Can someone who understand's Arabic confirm that this photo is under the GFDL Image:Zinedine Zidane-ar.jpg? Even better, could someone try and confirm that it was correctly licensed. E.g. if the person who uploaded it was the photographer. If not, try and find where it came from. It looks to me a bit like a professional photo and it's also just a thumbnail so it would be good if we could get more info on it. If you are able to confirm it is under the GFDL, consider uploading it to the wikicommons perhaps and delete the english variant? Nil Einne 15:26, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
User: Syimrvm just removed the information about what was currently happening with the note that it was unnecessary and that in time a more succint paragraph would suffice. While I agree fully that the paragraph as it was needs to be pared down and fully believe that it will become smaller over time, I think we should discuss this on the talk page and try to get some consensus about what's worth having up now. Vickser 16:00, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
I propose the following: Vickser 19:34, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
"Regarding the substance of the argument, Zidane's agent Alain Migliaccio said, "[Zidane] told me Materazzi said something very serious to him but he wouldn't tell me what."<ref name="zidane_blame">{{cite news |url=http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/world_cup_2006/teams/france/5164094.stm |title=Zidane blamed Materazzi comment |publisher=BBC Sport |date=[[2006-07-10]] |accessdate=2006-07-10}}</ref> Several papers have had lipreaders try to interpret what Materazzi said and come up with different results. No one transcript has emerged as widely agreed upon.<ref>{{cite news |url=http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,28783-2263995,00.html |last = Hughes |first = Matt |title=Read my lips: the taunt that made Zidane snap |publisher=The Times |date=[[2006-07-10]] |accessdate=2006-07-11}}</ref><ref>{{cite news |url=http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=395046&in_page_id=1770 |last = Hale |first = Beth |title=Revealed: The disgusting abuse that sparked Zidane's fury |publisher=Daily Mail |date=[[2006-07-10]] |accessdate=2006-07-11}}</ref><ref>{{cite news |url=http://www.thesun.co.uk/article/1,,2006310771,00.html |last = Peake |first = Alex |title=Sick taunt that riled ZZ |publisher=The Sun |date=[[2006-07-11]] |accessdate=2006-07-11}}</ref><ref>{{cite news |url=http://www.spiegel.de/sport/fussball/0,1518,426118,00.html |title=Materazzi räumt Beleidigung ein |language=German |publisher=SPIEGEL online |date=[[2006-07-11]] |accessdate=2006-07-11}}</ref>
Materazzi recounted the incident as follows: "I held his shirt for a few seconds only, then he turned to me and talked to me, jeering. He looked at me with a huge arrogance and said: 'If you really want my shirt, I'll give it to you afterwards'. I replied with an insult, that's true." He denied that the accusation that the comment was racist in nature or that he had called Zidane a terrorist. He also rejected claims that he had insulted Zidane's mother, saying: "I certainly didn't talk about Zidane's mother" because to him "the mother is sacred". Zidane's mother had been taken ill to hospital hours before the World Cup final.<ref>{{cite news |url=http://foxsports.news.com.au/story/0,8659,19757414-23215,00.html |first=Paul |last=Kent |title=Insult was to Zidane's wife |publisher=[[Fox Sports (Australia)]] |date=[[2006-07-12]] |accessdate=2006-07-11}}</ref> According to Materazzi, it was "the type of insults that we've heard before so many times on the pitch, and sometimes we don't even notice it".<ref name="materazzi_ESPN">{{cite news |url=http://soccernet.espn.go.com/news/story?id=373706&cc=5901 |title=Materazzi admits to insulting Zidane |publisher=ESPN |date=[[2006-07-11]] |accessdate=2006-07-11}}</ref> Zidane's agent has told reporters that Zidane himself will speak on the incident in a few days.<ref>{{cite news |url=http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/world_cup_2006/5169342.stm |title=Fifa Investigates Zidane Red |publisher=[[BBC Sport]] |date=[[2006-07-11]] |accessdate=2006-07-11}}</ref>"
Hi, I am not sure if this article should be included here:
http://ansa.it/main/notizie/awnplus/english/news/2006-07-11_1114278.html Since I am not a Wiki-nerd so some professional may decide it :)
I think there should be a new archive on this talk page.. getting really long..
The paragraph on the possiblity of Italy being disqualified from the cup due to Materazzi's insult, strikes me as extreme wishful-thinking on someone's part, even if a German publisher got in on the act. Were FIFA to disqualify a side, based on an insult hurled on the pitch, it would be a significant scandal. Were FIFA to take back the Cup from the winning side based on such an occurrence, would be an event which would shake the sport of football to its foundations. I think stronger sources should be found for this sort of speculation before it goes into Wikipedia. -- EngineerScotty 20:24, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
Yeah, I noticed this too. I don't think the paragraph should be in there. Nobody that I've seen (ESPN, Guardian, BBC Sport) has picked up on this, and those are all papers that would mention this if it were at all feasible that Italy would lose the world cup. I think we should remove the paragraph, or just say there is the possibility of harsh sanctions. Vickser 20:49, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
I commented out the section, pending stronger sources. (Note that sanctions against Materazzi are a far different matter than sanctions against Italy). -- EngineerScotty 20:59, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
There's a problem... the article 55 has only 3 paragraphs (where's the 4th paragraph?):
It is outregeous how people speculate on issues without any documentation. The allegation on the possiblity of Italy being disqualified from the cup due to Materazzi's insult does not have any logic. Are there any link to articles or news about that??? NO. So PLEASE REMOVE THAT ABSURD personal opinion! --- zip
The amended FIFA article states that if the contemptuous actions of a player, spectator, or official "can be attributed to a certain team" then the sanctions can be imposed. But, the chances of Italy actually getting disqualified are nil for several reasons. First of all, the scandal created would be enormous, especially in light of FIFAs "say no to racism" campaign. Second of all, how do you attribute Materazzi's action to the whole team? And finally, there is absolutely no conclusive evidence that any racial slur was ever used (not to mention that Zidane has denied that Materazzi's comments were racist). The only two people who know what was said were Materazzi and Zidane, and naturally both of them are going to try and save face: Zidane by making it seem that what was said was much worse that it really was and Materazzi by trying to downplay his comments. There is no chance that such drastic measures would be taken with a total lack of conclusive evidence. The Der Spiegel article, makes it seem as though it is a fact that a racial slur was used. In fact, all available evidence suggests that isn't the case. It think the article on Zidane should be edited to remove the comment about disqualification until there is conclusive evidence that such an action is a distinct possibility. I have to agree with many of the comments above: as reputable of a publication as Der Spiegel is, it seems as though it is just sour grapes and overly wishful thinking on their part to even suggest that such action be taken.
Are there any high quality photographs of the incident, or even a website that has quality photos of Zidane/ the final? Thanks.
Try browsing football forums and asking this question. This is not a football forum. (
AurgornN
17:54, 12 July 2006 (UTC))
The inclusion of "aftermath" reactions seems a little biased. It suggests to the reader that nobody is upset about it and everything's hunky-dory for Zidane, when several people have spoken out against it, including the Brazilian coach calling him a 'monster.'
Moreover, there's been no mention of the FRENCH reaction - and by that I mean more than just the president. The newspapers have soundly condemned the act: http://www.utvlive.com/newsroom/indepth.asp?id=32550&pt=s Dead men's bells 02:38, 12 July 2006 (UTC)
(A) Why didn't he go back on the pitch? Because a red-carded player must leave the pitch and not return.
(B) neither Ali, nor Jesse Owens or Pele "broke the rules the way you did." Anyone remember when Ali called Joe Frazier an "Uncle Tom?"
When one is red-carded one has to leave the arena of play and an automatic one-game suspension is in force (except in England, whose rules differ from those of Fifa on the matter - in other words, in England the suspension can be appealed). As the awards ceremony, etc. is still part of the match he couldn't attend it. Also, I am pretty sure that he commiserated with his fellows the day after when they were feted by Chirac.
Pointing out Ali's statement was a way of deflating the hype about this a bit.
Sorry to be a pain in the ass, here, but the provocation speculation is just that - speculation. I don't have a problem with including supposed translations as long as which are reported isn't subjective. "Son of a terrorist whore" is what's there now and it's by far the most offensive of the purported insults, with no mention of the far more benign "I'd rather take the shirt off your wife." Either don't give possible insults at all until more information comes out or include more than the worst one.-- Dead men's bells 02:44, 12 July 2006 (UTC)
You're right, they have been, but if you look through the news articles added in the last few hours, there's a drastic increase in articles purporting it was an insult toward his wife. I understand that it's the most widely reported at-the-moment, but it's far from unheard of from earlier reports to be inaccurate in any given circumstance. There just isn't enough information about the lip-reading to warrant a single overriding explanation; there are thousands of "experts" who testify in trials in all countries whose credentials are far less than their title of "forensic expert" would suggest. Also, lip-reading is controversial in itself because of the variety of different phrases that can result in the same lip movement - a point that Wikipedia made on their lip reading page. Will it come out that he called him the son of a terrorist whore? Maybe, but it's just conjecture at this point and including it and only it because the newspapers seized on the most shocking interpretations is giving too much credit to sensationalism. It's possible, but it's not the only thing that is, and anyone in the field of lip-reading would tell you that relying on non-Italian interpreters brings up a whole lot of new problems.
I made an edit in the lipreading section saying that the interpretations "ranged from racist remarks about Zidane and his family to an inappropriate comment about his wife." That doesn't delete the "terrorist whore" comment further down on the page, but I think it's supremely fair to make it clear that not all of the purported interpretations are racist in nature. (As for the comment on Materazzi's not knowing what a terrorist is, I think that's subjective and that the version posted is misleading. The one I'd originally posted says he doesn't understand the full meaning of being an Islamic terrorist because he isn't very cultured. Questionable, certainly, but hardly what I'd call "stupid.") -- Dead men's bells 06:26, 12 July 2006 (UTC)
I appreciate we are just accurately reporting the Brazilian coach's comments but could someone perhaps find some reference or other that points out that Zidane was technically not allowed back onto the field due to the red card? I have seen other people who are apparently unaware of this fact and the fact that even the Brazilian coach is either unaware or considered it okay for Zidane to further break the rules by coming back on to the field suggests we should at least make it clear that Zidane was not allowed back onto the field, whether to console his teammates, collect his medal or collect the World Cup if France had won. Nil Einne 06:23, 12 July 2006 (UTC)
The whole issue regarding Zidane being called a "Monster", has been taken out of context. Carlos Alberto Parreira (Brazilian Coach) did call him a "Monster" but that only after the game against Brazil. Referring to his soccer abilities and not to the whole headbutting episode. Refer to the link below (in the part titled "WHAT THEY SAY ABOUT ZIDANE"): [http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/world_cup_2006/teams/france/5147908.stm]
I removed the part which stated the Brazilian coach called zidane a monster after the headbutiing incident.True, he was called a monster by Alberto Carlos, but only after Brazil's loss to France and definitely not after the final and most definitely not in a negative context.-- Sagacious 20:17, 12 July 2006 (UTC)
this is forbidden by the FIFA and it's yet unclear if the 4th referee did use the giant screen or not. witnesses have seen the 4th referee watching the screen, while the concerned person claims he didn't.—Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.228.0.86 ( talk • contribs)
since "this is not a message board" this is not yahoonews neither! the section about Zidane's headbutt is way too important on the article! his whole carrer is near as long as the headbutt, this is nonsense and unlegitimate. a single event doesn't need a such close up and must be reduced. 213.228.0.86 10:08, 12 July 2006 (UTC)
answer below because he is good because he loves me
It might be pertinent to include a mention of the possibility of Zidane being stripped of his award. It's all over CNN because of Blatter's statement. -- Dead men's bells 14:06, 12 July 2006 (UTC)
Zidane's carreer as one of the greatests footballers of all time spanned much farther than the 2006 World Cup. It seems to me as if there is much too much focus on the headbutt incidident in this article. It doesn't make any sense that the section on the 2006 World Cup is one-third of the entire article. In a few months people will remember Zidane for his footballing genius, not the head-butt. Too much focus on it in this article. Should there not be a more organized way to balance the article? Xioyux 15:55, 12 July 2006 (UTC)
There's a lot of speculation because no one's spoken out yet. It's a current event. Of course it'll be pared down to a smaller section when everything comes out. Sheesh, it IS a big deal. 67.169.111.72 18:16, 12 July 2006 (UTC)
Is anyone watching? What did he say? I bet he didn't get into details of Materazzi's insult.-- 216.75.93.110 18:18, 12 July 2006 (UTC)
Could not watch the interview. Internet news are very imprecise on Zidane's words. Some say insults to "mother and sister", others to "family" others to his "women". It would be useful to have on Wikipedia the exact transcript of Zidane's words, to match with Matreazzi's statements that he did not mention Zidane's mother. Apparently Zidane did not say what insults he received.
He said he repeatedly insulted his mother and sister, that he is a man and does not regret his actions but that he regrets it for the millions watching and especially for the teachers etc...
Good for Zidane! -- 83.45.170.143 18:27, 12 July 2006 (UTC)
I watched the interview. Zidane did not want to say what insults he received, even pressed by the interviewer. The racist hypothesis is apparently out. It is true that Zidane mentions his mother and sister, but he does not really clarify. I guess we won't know nuch more from the two contendants. Normally plenty of insults are heard during a football match. Zidane does not suggest why Materazzi's words were so unusual.
Later Zidane told TF1 that Materazzi did not make racist statements. I guess this makes the whole story less interesting than the media expected ...
Unfortunately I got the news from an internet newspaper, claiming that Zidane did tell TF1 that there was no racist statement. I cannot quote TF1 directly right now. As soon as I get a sound quotation it is mandatory to insert it in the article (but I cannot, because access is restricted). I will put it here and somebody else will insert it. My indirect quotation is from Corriere della Sera http://www.corriere.it/Primo_Piano/Sport/2006/07_Luglio/12/Zidane.shtml Orbifold 20:01, 12 July 2006 (UTC)
Has there been any mention of criminal charges for Zidane's assault on Materazzi? Or does law not apply to athletes on the field?
Re: The law always applies. There was a case a few years back where a hockey player in the USA attacked another player on the ice and was charged with assault. However, I have not yet heard about possible charges against Zidane. Manus Celer Dei 19:34, 12 July 2006 (UTC)
Normally sport players are committed not to go to ordinary courts to decide about episodes of a match, because the agonistic tension can provoke behaviors that the same persons would never show in ordinary life. This both for Materazzi's words and Zidane's reaction. More serious are the words or acts that follow the match or are not directly related with a match. Those should also be dealt with by the FIFA and other sport authorities, without involvment by ordinary courts, but it is less unfrequent to hear of footbal teams going to court. Normally a team excluded from some competition because of his budget goes to court to be admitted. Orbifold 19:57, 12 July 2006 (UTC)
Regarding the request for a citation (see end of section Canal+ interview), I couldn't find something written to quote, but if you watch the interview on the TF1 website (http://www.eurosport.fr/football/coupedumonde/2006/sport_sto924766.shtml) at about 2 mins. 30 secs. you'll hear this (sorry for not writing accents, but my keybord doesn't have them):
INTERVIEWER: "... et quand vous dites 'des paroles tres graves', est-ce que vous pouvez dire si elles sont d'ordre raciste, ..."
ZIDANE: "non..."
INTERVIEWER: "... si elles sont d'ordre familiale... "
ZIDANE: "... oui c'est familiale... "
Which translates into (god, how hard!):
INTERVIEWER: "... and when you say 'very serious words', could you say if they are of racist nature, ..."
ZIDANE: "no..."
INTERVIEWER: "... if they are of domestic nature... "
ZIDANE: "... yes, domestic... "
131.111.225.73 21:22, 12 July 2006 (UTC)
Other sources confirming Zidane's denial of racist insults:
from Le Parisien:
http://www.leparisien.com/home/sports/mondial2006/article.htm?articleid=261030842
from Il Corriere:
http://www.corriere.it/Primo_Piano/Sport/2006/07_Luglio/12/Zidane.shtml
F4810 11:03, 13 July 2006 (UTC)
My statements are confirmed also by a French user on the French Wikipedia Talk page about Zinedine Zidane [http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Discuter:Zinedine_Zidane], who writes "L'article du Monde (dont le lien figure sur l'article de Zidane) semble dire que Zidane confirme la version des propos racistes soutenue par de nombreux Tabloids anglais. Or hier Zidane a nié les insultes racistes (en particulier durant l'interview de TF1 ou Claire Chazal lui a directement posé la question). Je pense donc qu'il faudrait supprimer cet article du Monde et le remplacer par un autre qui ne déforme pas la réalité." Therefore I suggest that a statement on this important fact be inserted. I think it is not fair to ignore this important interview in the English page. Orbifold 12:40, 13 July 2006 (UTC)
This:
has been removed from the article appearing on Le Monde, which was probably also the source for the Swiss newspaper. I think there is little doubt left that Materazzi's insult was a racist one. 193.62.198.107 15:49, 13 July 2006 (UTC)
Alright, now that Zidane and Materazzi have publically spoken about the incident, I think it does need to be edited down. Aside from a passing mention that there was initially some rumor about racist remarks, I don't think there needs to be anything else on that front (i.e. the word 'terrorist' anywhere) because Zidane's categorically denied it. Can someone reduce it to reflect Zidane and Materazzi's current positions and get rid of all the speculation? Dead men's bells 22:11, 12 July 2006 (UTC)
Does anyone know if anyone's ever been stripped of the Golden Ball award before? Dead men's bells 23:09, 12 July 2006 (UTC)
The link under the headbutt photo entitled "Alternate video" needs fixing or removing. The You Tube message reads:
"This video has been removed at the request of copyright owner FIFA 2006 because its content was used without permission".
I removed this from the article:
The reasons are:
1) A source is not provided. The primary source would be Le Monde, but (as someone noticed at the end of section "Zidane says insults were not of racist nature") they have removed this sentence from their article (still accessible)... All the other newspapers were citing Le Monde.
2) This contradicts Zidane's denial of racist insults, which is reported by Le Parisien (http://www.leparisien.com/home/sports/mondial2006/article.htm?articleid=261030842), by several italian newspapers, and can be heard clearly in his interview with TF1.
F4810 19:59, 13 July 2006 (UTC)
3) Ok, now I understand where that sentence was coming from. For those who can understand French, watch the Canal + interview at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PSA_I-nFXOU at 5:10. The sentence from Le Monde (then fortunately removed) was a big distorsion of what has been said here. The interviewer says that the sentences reported on the English and Italian tabloids somehow agree with what Zidane just hinted at, insults regarding Zidane's mother and sister. Zidane comments this twice with "ben, oui", once even before 'agrees with' ("recoupe" in french) is said.
I personally think Zidane's denial of having received insults of racist nature should also be included. Alternatively all the story about who said what should be deleted... F4810 20:29, 13 July 2006 (UTC)
Comments allegedly attributed to her prove to be a mere tabloid fabrication.
The Daily Mirror was silent in revealing their sources, yet those closest to the Zidane family have stated that his mother did not say that she wanted Materazzi's testicles (cut off) on a platter. If someone stated it, it was not his mother. The Daily Mirror only backed their reporting by reiterating that Zidane's mother told *her friends* "I have nothing but contempt for Materazzi and, if what he said is true, then I want his balls on a platter," This purposeful response by The Daily Mirror reveals only that their news came as an indirect quote, rather then an interview.
It seems The Daily Mirror will have to join the Materazzi apology band wagon.
You don't know if you would walk away. You can only speculate on what you might or would like to do. Then again, this incident really isn't about you, so I'm not quite sure why what you would or would not do is of any importance.
I removed the claim that Zidane responded "no" when asked if the remarks were racist in nature. There were four references after this sentence. Some in English, some not. The English sources most certainly do not support this! Having put the others through Babelfish, I am fairly certain they don't say this. Given that most accounts of that interview omit this detail (which would be extremely notable, given the Fifa investigation) and explicitly say that he was extremely vague about Materazzi's comments, it seems improbable. I found no account of the TF1 interview which states this. Please don't readd without a better source. savidan (talk) (e@) 06:52, 14 July 2006 (UTC)
The comment(s) below were originally left at Talk:Zinedine Zidane/Comments, and are posted here for posterity. Following several discussions in past years, these subpages are now deprecated. The comments may be irrelevant or outdated; if so, please feel free to remove this section.
Well done with references in most places, however, there are some sections that still need inline citations. Also, try working the trivia items into the prose of the article. plange 23:54, 8 August 2006 (UTC) |
Last edited at 23:54, 8 August 2006 (UTC). Substituted at 21:04, 4 May 2016 (UTC)