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How could they have been Buddhists before the "Shakyamuni Buddha"? Isn't that like saying "They were Christians that predated Christ?"
Among Buddhist sutras themselves there are legends of previous buddha-like figures. While the sutras are not impartial, the "legends" may have some basis in fact, adn they might be previous religious teachers similar to gautama/sakyamuni. Anyway, the Gnostics were sort of "Christians that predated Christ" -- Darthanakin 09:45, 23 October 2005 (UTC)
Ok after clicking on a few links, I came across this interview. http://www.buddhistview.com/site/epage/8958_225.htm I think the yungdrung Bön tradition was probably the result of syncretism. -- Darthanakin 09:56, 23 October 2005 (UTC)
Bon is today accepted as a form of buddhism by Dalai Lama and most tibetan schools. Besides not believing the history Bon claims for its lineage, its view is considered perfect. I think it has been accepted as such from the very beggining of the Rime movement. Theres quite a lot of texts on this encyclopedia that say that someone population practice 'Bon or Buddhism', , while enumerating religions, among other options, implying Bon isnt Buddhism... Also, Some (non-Bon) lamas, like Namkhai Norbu Rimpoche, after some research, grant Bon its claim that its tradition does have an independend origin and independent transmission of buddhism from the other tibetan schools, though of course not dating it nearly as far back, maybe just a little before Nygmapas (certanly not before Shakyamuni buddha, though some fundamental teachings of tibetan buddhism, like dzogchen, which is a part of Bon too, are not even claimed to have ever been tought by shakyamuni buddha, but by Garab Dorje), and still considering much of whats todays Bon (but not all, and not even all thats buddhism in it) as appropriated from Nygmapas later... -- Aryah 20:50, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
No its not - Bon is Bon. It has adapted intself to the political reality of buddhism, at least in terms of ritual and appearance etc., but in fact ALL of the rituals of tibetan buddhism are bon in origin. The above statement is absolutely nonsensical if one exams the origin of Bon, in Siberia. Why don't you read the article you are apparently discussing?? or maybe this one: http://www.iras.ucalgary.ca/~volk/sylvia/Magic.htm Wikiherbal 03:09, 11 January 2007 (UTC)
I changed this section to: Zhang Zhung culture's influence in India, with a discussion of the similarities and links between Lord Shenrab Miwo, the founder of the "yrungdrung" Bon (basically, all Bon). The yrungdrung section in the Bon entry is also poorly written, and totally besides the point. The "tantilizing" claim is only "tantilizing to the apparent fixation of the author. The comments have nothing to do with Bon, or really what Bonpos think. I will get to it eventually. Wikiherbal 03:34, 11 January 2007 (UTC)
"The Zhang Zhung culture was centered around sacred Mount Kailash and extended west to Sarmatians and present-day Ladakh ..." Ladakh in the West sounds logical. The Sarmatians were in Ukraine. Don't just tell some name. This claim about Sarmatians in Tibet needs explanation. Truchses 22:00, 17 November 2006 (UTC)
The result of the proposal was Move Parsecboy ( talk) 14:32, 7 February 2009 (UTC)
This is the usual (Wylie's) transliteration of the Tibetan name in English (variants include: Zhang Zhung, Zhang-zhung and Shangshung). The Pinyin version, Xangxung, is a recent Chinese transliteration of the ancient Tibetan name and is misleading to English readers who do not know the Chinese Pinyin system of romanisations - leading to confusion regarding its pronunciation. As the Tibetans have used Zhangzhung for many centuries and this has been the standard English romanisation for a long time, it should be listed as such. Thank you, John Hill ( talk) 08:11, 2 February 2009 (UTC)
Someone made an error in the description of one of the maps, which the map itself said was AD but the editor's description said it was BC. I rectified this.— Preceding unsigned comment added by 142.58.43.68 ( talk • contribs) 08:09, April 14, 2010
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Bon and Buddhism, Two Faces of the Same Coin? from about 35:00 on.
Chris Fynn ( talk) 06:16, 26 December 2017 (UTC)
The article erroneously says in the section on "Extent of the Zhangzhung kingdoms", "The capital city of Zhangzhung was called Khyunglung ( Wylie: Khyunglung Ngülkhar or Wylie: Khyung-lung dngul-mkhar),".
First of all, only the second one is an (incorrect) approximation of Wylie Transliteration. The first "Wylie" is not Wylie, but rather a system of phoneticization, and should not be referred to as Wylie. Furthermore, the hyphens in the second Wylie (the one which is actually Wylie) should be removed and replaced with spaces. The correct Wylie transliteration of ཁྱུང་ལུང་དངུལ་མཁར་ is "khyung lung dngul mkhar," with no capital letters or hyphens. Gcurtis509 ( talk) 21:12, 12 March 2023 (UTC)
The redirect Zhang-zhung has been listed at redirects for discussion to determine whether its use and function meets the redirect guidelines. Readers of this page are welcome to comment on this redirect at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2023 August 28 § Zhang-zhung until a consensus is reached. 1234qwer 1234qwer 4 15:41, 28 August 2023 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Zhangzhung article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
This
level-5 vital article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
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|
A fact from Zhangzhung appeared on Wikipedia's
Main Page in the
Did you know column on 8 April 2004. The text of the entry was as follows:
|
How could they have been Buddhists before the "Shakyamuni Buddha"? Isn't that like saying "They were Christians that predated Christ?"
Among Buddhist sutras themselves there are legends of previous buddha-like figures. While the sutras are not impartial, the "legends" may have some basis in fact, adn they might be previous religious teachers similar to gautama/sakyamuni. Anyway, the Gnostics were sort of "Christians that predated Christ" -- Darthanakin 09:45, 23 October 2005 (UTC)
Ok after clicking on a few links, I came across this interview. http://www.buddhistview.com/site/epage/8958_225.htm I think the yungdrung Bön tradition was probably the result of syncretism. -- Darthanakin 09:56, 23 October 2005 (UTC)
Bon is today accepted as a form of buddhism by Dalai Lama and most tibetan schools. Besides not believing the history Bon claims for its lineage, its view is considered perfect. I think it has been accepted as such from the very beggining of the Rime movement. Theres quite a lot of texts on this encyclopedia that say that someone population practice 'Bon or Buddhism', , while enumerating religions, among other options, implying Bon isnt Buddhism... Also, Some (non-Bon) lamas, like Namkhai Norbu Rimpoche, after some research, grant Bon its claim that its tradition does have an independend origin and independent transmission of buddhism from the other tibetan schools, though of course not dating it nearly as far back, maybe just a little before Nygmapas (certanly not before Shakyamuni buddha, though some fundamental teachings of tibetan buddhism, like dzogchen, which is a part of Bon too, are not even claimed to have ever been tought by shakyamuni buddha, but by Garab Dorje), and still considering much of whats todays Bon (but not all, and not even all thats buddhism in it) as appropriated from Nygmapas later... -- Aryah 20:50, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
No its not - Bon is Bon. It has adapted intself to the political reality of buddhism, at least in terms of ritual and appearance etc., but in fact ALL of the rituals of tibetan buddhism are bon in origin. The above statement is absolutely nonsensical if one exams the origin of Bon, in Siberia. Why don't you read the article you are apparently discussing?? or maybe this one: http://www.iras.ucalgary.ca/~volk/sylvia/Magic.htm Wikiherbal 03:09, 11 January 2007 (UTC)
I changed this section to: Zhang Zhung culture's influence in India, with a discussion of the similarities and links between Lord Shenrab Miwo, the founder of the "yrungdrung" Bon (basically, all Bon). The yrungdrung section in the Bon entry is also poorly written, and totally besides the point. The "tantilizing" claim is only "tantilizing to the apparent fixation of the author. The comments have nothing to do with Bon, or really what Bonpos think. I will get to it eventually. Wikiherbal 03:34, 11 January 2007 (UTC)
"The Zhang Zhung culture was centered around sacred Mount Kailash and extended west to Sarmatians and present-day Ladakh ..." Ladakh in the West sounds logical. The Sarmatians were in Ukraine. Don't just tell some name. This claim about Sarmatians in Tibet needs explanation. Truchses 22:00, 17 November 2006 (UTC)
The result of the proposal was Move Parsecboy ( talk) 14:32, 7 February 2009 (UTC)
This is the usual (Wylie's) transliteration of the Tibetan name in English (variants include: Zhang Zhung, Zhang-zhung and Shangshung). The Pinyin version, Xangxung, is a recent Chinese transliteration of the ancient Tibetan name and is misleading to English readers who do not know the Chinese Pinyin system of romanisations - leading to confusion regarding its pronunciation. As the Tibetans have used Zhangzhung for many centuries and this has been the standard English romanisation for a long time, it should be listed as such. Thank you, John Hill ( talk) 08:11, 2 February 2009 (UTC)
Someone made an error in the description of one of the maps, which the map itself said was AD but the editor's description said it was BC. I rectified this.— Preceding unsigned comment added by 142.58.43.68 ( talk • contribs) 08:09, April 14, 2010
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 2 external links on Zhangzhung. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
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Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 13:59, 21 July 2016 (UTC)
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Bon and Buddhism, Two Faces of the Same Coin? from about 35:00 on.
Chris Fynn ( talk) 06:16, 26 December 2017 (UTC)
The article erroneously says in the section on "Extent of the Zhangzhung kingdoms", "The capital city of Zhangzhung was called Khyunglung ( Wylie: Khyunglung Ngülkhar or Wylie: Khyung-lung dngul-mkhar),".
First of all, only the second one is an (incorrect) approximation of Wylie Transliteration. The first "Wylie" is not Wylie, but rather a system of phoneticization, and should not be referred to as Wylie. Furthermore, the hyphens in the second Wylie (the one which is actually Wylie) should be removed and replaced with spaces. The correct Wylie transliteration of ཁྱུང་ལུང་དངུལ་མཁར་ is "khyung lung dngul mkhar," with no capital letters or hyphens. Gcurtis509 ( talk) 21:12, 12 March 2023 (UTC)
The redirect Zhang-zhung has been listed at redirects for discussion to determine whether its use and function meets the redirect guidelines. Readers of this page are welcome to comment on this redirect at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2023 August 28 § Zhang-zhung until a consensus is reached. 1234qwer 1234qwer 4 15:41, 28 August 2023 (UTC)