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Hello
I have a group of 15 adults intending to visit the Chinese Patriotic Catholic Association (CPCA) churches and visiting the nature and scenic attractions in and around Zhangjiajie and Jiuzhaigou sometime in May 2007.
Where can I get information about the locations of all the CPCAs, the nature and scenic spots in these places?
Can a package be arranged to suit our above requirements? Where and whom can I approach to arrange for such tailored tour?
Thank you and regards.
Noel isabnoel@gmail.com
I disagree with the interpretation of the name Zhangjiajie as given. Do you have any verifiable sources for the one that has been entered? The most straightforward meaning for it is got by directly translating the characters, as I was told repeatedly when I stayed there with my wife, a native of Zhangijiajie City (the last time was about 6 months ago.) Zhang is a fairly common Chinese surname, directly translated as "Stretch" in English, but having a slightly different meaning to the English surname Stretch, which has a now archaic meaning. "jia" can be directly translated as "Family" and "jie" can be directly translated as "Homeland". Put these together, as I was told repeatedly to do, and you get "Zhang family homeland." I think it is as simple as that. The area of Zhangjiajie National Forest Park was always known as Zhangjiajie, and it is from this area that the city got its new name, to tie it more closely in with the UNESCO-recognised site. It may well be that the city authorities intend Zhangjiajie to have the associations provided, but the meaning of the city name need not, and is not, I contend, directly be translated as that. DDS talk 02:31, 12 December 2006 (UTC)
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Let me respectfully reply to this discussion. Both discussions are rational and reasonable, particlarly the explanation of the three words from its original chinese meanings. That would be what I would immediately conclude too. However, if one studies the available historical information from 'official' ZJJ websites, http://www.xyzjj.com/csyx/lsyg.htm and http://www.xyzjj.com/csyx/csgk.htm, one can induce (not really deduce):
1. While the existance of the city is old, dating back to 221 BC, the current name of the city is new. Zhangjiajie the city was named Dayong until April, 1994 when a name change was approved by 国务院, the Chinese State Council, from Dayong to Zhangjiajie. 2. While there was no mention of where the name Zhangjiajie actually came from, consulting a Chinese language atlas (Zhonghua Renmin Gongheguo Fen Sheng Dituji) that dates back to the 1980s, before 1994, there was indeed a village named Zhangjiajie, near the city of Dayong, but it is not the current ZJJ city.
The interpretation in the last sentence of the wiki article was told to me by a local tour guide who may or may not be a reliable source. However, while it is entirely plausible that the original small Zhangjiajie village indeed belongs to a certain Zhang family, it is equally plausible that the new city was named for a totally different reason, to provide an advertising slogan to attract tourism. It is also not unusual for Chinese government leaders to attach new-fangled interpretations to current place names and phrases, this is a Chinese practice that has gone on for ages.
In conclusion, we just don't know which is the correct version. We really need the knowledge of someone who was in Dayong in 1994, at the time when the name change was announced. 1994 was not so long ago that I certainly hope Stretch can find some one from the current ZJJ city to verify.
Respectfully Xgchen 03:49, 21 December 2006 (UTC) Xgchen
I speak Chinese, and I've got the dictionary you cited. To say that Zhang should be translated as "Stretch" is, well, a bit of a stretch, I think. Regardless, that's a debate best taken to the Zhang surname page on Wikipedia. The exact translation of Zhang isn't relevant to the Zhangjiajie article. Best, Terence7 ( talk) 05:28, 7 April 2008 (UTC)
This seems understandable in view of Zhangjiajie’s remote geographical position, its undeveloped land and river transportation, its mountainous terrain making cultivation difficult, and its overall backwardness. For these reasons, Zhangjiajie has been labeled “ the Land of the Savage Southern Minority” since the dawn of recorded history. Also, the people here have borne the names of “Wuling Rude People” and “Tujia Rude People” for generations.
This paragraph does not meet any known academic standard. overall backwardness is not an acceptable term because it's undefinable. If anything 'overall backwardness' would be a result of its lack of development NOT the cause of it, as is suggested by this paragraph. As it stands, the comment is simply offensive while providing absolutely no objective information.
This paragraph, in particular wuling rude people, and 'tujia rude people are uncited, they are unsubstantiated by sources, and I believe the claims will turn out to be unverifiable. What is reported by these comments is one sided hearsay, which I find offensive and racist, and more importantly they have no basis in fact.
My comment on helping to improve this article, delete this whole paragraph, or mark it as unsubstantiated, uncited or controversial. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 106.120.118.241 ( talk) 04:38, 20 February 2013 (UTC)
I will try my best to get some better sources and better captions than we have already for this article. In particular, the caption for the women in ethnic minority traditional clothes was capable of being improved greatly: they are in Tujia National Dress: my wife wore clothes like this when we got married, and she is a Tujia person. Also, the "Traditional Boat" picture can be improved upon: the photo is of a boat used for tourist trips and the photo is taken from just above the landing (or leaving) stage for tourist to go on a boat trip around the lake. I know because I have been on this trip more than once with various other friends and relatives. The problem is, we need much better sources than this for most of the claims given in this article. I now live in Beijing, but I will see if I can get some better sources over the next few months (even if I must use relatives to translate text I cannot into English). DDStretch (talk) 13:54, 30 July 2013 (UTC)
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To add to the article: what it borders. 76.189.141.37 ( talk) 23:02, 16 August 2018 (UTC)
Stoneware term refer to a type of clay-based fire hardened material used mainly for pottery. (Merriam-Webster Definition of stoneware: a strong opaque ceramic ware that is high-fired, well vitrified, and nonporous) In this article reference to “stoneware” found in Palaeolithic sites can not obviously refer to this kind of material since clay fired material (ceramic) development is more recent and belong to Neolithic period and stoneware itself is even more recent. I assume that the reference is actually to stone implements and tools, however I see no reference to original source and I can not check. Definitely I would suggest to revise the “stoneware” term to something different (stone tools?) to avoid misunderstanding and having people understand that “stoneware” was produced in Palaeolithic period. Thanks RITUKALOS ( talk) 17:21, 25 June 2020 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Zhangjiajie article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
This
level-5 vital article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||
|
It is requested that a photograph be
included in this article to
improve its quality.
Wikipedians in China may be able to help! The external tool WordPress Openverse may be able to locate suitable images on Flickr and other web sites. |
Hello
I have a group of 15 adults intending to visit the Chinese Patriotic Catholic Association (CPCA) churches and visiting the nature and scenic attractions in and around Zhangjiajie and Jiuzhaigou sometime in May 2007.
Where can I get information about the locations of all the CPCAs, the nature and scenic spots in these places?
Can a package be arranged to suit our above requirements? Where and whom can I approach to arrange for such tailored tour?
Thank you and regards.
Noel isabnoel@gmail.com
I disagree with the interpretation of the name Zhangjiajie as given. Do you have any verifiable sources for the one that has been entered? The most straightforward meaning for it is got by directly translating the characters, as I was told repeatedly when I stayed there with my wife, a native of Zhangijiajie City (the last time was about 6 months ago.) Zhang is a fairly common Chinese surname, directly translated as "Stretch" in English, but having a slightly different meaning to the English surname Stretch, which has a now archaic meaning. "jia" can be directly translated as "Family" and "jie" can be directly translated as "Homeland". Put these together, as I was told repeatedly to do, and you get "Zhang family homeland." I think it is as simple as that. The area of Zhangjiajie National Forest Park was always known as Zhangjiajie, and it is from this area that the city got its new name, to tie it more closely in with the UNESCO-recognised site. It may well be that the city authorities intend Zhangjiajie to have the associations provided, but the meaning of the city name need not, and is not, I contend, directly be translated as that. DDS talk 02:31, 12 December 2006 (UTC)
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Let me respectfully reply to this discussion. Both discussions are rational and reasonable, particlarly the explanation of the three words from its original chinese meanings. That would be what I would immediately conclude too. However, if one studies the available historical information from 'official' ZJJ websites, http://www.xyzjj.com/csyx/lsyg.htm and http://www.xyzjj.com/csyx/csgk.htm, one can induce (not really deduce):
1. While the existance of the city is old, dating back to 221 BC, the current name of the city is new. Zhangjiajie the city was named Dayong until April, 1994 when a name change was approved by 国务院, the Chinese State Council, from Dayong to Zhangjiajie. 2. While there was no mention of where the name Zhangjiajie actually came from, consulting a Chinese language atlas (Zhonghua Renmin Gongheguo Fen Sheng Dituji) that dates back to the 1980s, before 1994, there was indeed a village named Zhangjiajie, near the city of Dayong, but it is not the current ZJJ city.
The interpretation in the last sentence of the wiki article was told to me by a local tour guide who may or may not be a reliable source. However, while it is entirely plausible that the original small Zhangjiajie village indeed belongs to a certain Zhang family, it is equally plausible that the new city was named for a totally different reason, to provide an advertising slogan to attract tourism. It is also not unusual for Chinese government leaders to attach new-fangled interpretations to current place names and phrases, this is a Chinese practice that has gone on for ages.
In conclusion, we just don't know which is the correct version. We really need the knowledge of someone who was in Dayong in 1994, at the time when the name change was announced. 1994 was not so long ago that I certainly hope Stretch can find some one from the current ZJJ city to verify.
Respectfully Xgchen 03:49, 21 December 2006 (UTC) Xgchen
I speak Chinese, and I've got the dictionary you cited. To say that Zhang should be translated as "Stretch" is, well, a bit of a stretch, I think. Regardless, that's a debate best taken to the Zhang surname page on Wikipedia. The exact translation of Zhang isn't relevant to the Zhangjiajie article. Best, Terence7 ( talk) 05:28, 7 April 2008 (UTC)
This seems understandable in view of Zhangjiajie’s remote geographical position, its undeveloped land and river transportation, its mountainous terrain making cultivation difficult, and its overall backwardness. For these reasons, Zhangjiajie has been labeled “ the Land of the Savage Southern Minority” since the dawn of recorded history. Also, the people here have borne the names of “Wuling Rude People” and “Tujia Rude People” for generations.
This paragraph does not meet any known academic standard. overall backwardness is not an acceptable term because it's undefinable. If anything 'overall backwardness' would be a result of its lack of development NOT the cause of it, as is suggested by this paragraph. As it stands, the comment is simply offensive while providing absolutely no objective information.
This paragraph, in particular wuling rude people, and 'tujia rude people are uncited, they are unsubstantiated by sources, and I believe the claims will turn out to be unverifiable. What is reported by these comments is one sided hearsay, which I find offensive and racist, and more importantly they have no basis in fact.
My comment on helping to improve this article, delete this whole paragraph, or mark it as unsubstantiated, uncited or controversial. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 106.120.118.241 ( talk) 04:38, 20 February 2013 (UTC)
I will try my best to get some better sources and better captions than we have already for this article. In particular, the caption for the women in ethnic minority traditional clothes was capable of being improved greatly: they are in Tujia National Dress: my wife wore clothes like this when we got married, and she is a Tujia person. Also, the "Traditional Boat" picture can be improved upon: the photo is of a boat used for tourist trips and the photo is taken from just above the landing (or leaving) stage for tourist to go on a boat trip around the lake. I know because I have been on this trip more than once with various other friends and relatives. The problem is, we need much better sources than this for most of the claims given in this article. I now live in Beijing, but I will see if I can get some better sources over the next few months (even if I must use relatives to translate text I cannot into English). DDStretch (talk) 13:54, 30 July 2013 (UTC)
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To add to the article: what it borders. 76.189.141.37 ( talk) 23:02, 16 August 2018 (UTC)
Stoneware term refer to a type of clay-based fire hardened material used mainly for pottery. (Merriam-Webster Definition of stoneware: a strong opaque ceramic ware that is high-fired, well vitrified, and nonporous) In this article reference to “stoneware” found in Palaeolithic sites can not obviously refer to this kind of material since clay fired material (ceramic) development is more recent and belong to Neolithic period and stoneware itself is even more recent. I assume that the reference is actually to stone implements and tools, however I see no reference to original source and I can not check. Definitely I would suggest to revise the “stoneware” term to something different (stone tools?) to avoid misunderstanding and having people understand that “stoneware” was produced in Palaeolithic period. Thanks RITUKALOS ( talk) 17:21, 25 June 2020 (UTC)