The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
This subject is of great interest to me; I am very pleased to have the chance to review it. For a start, I would like to congratulate the contributor(s) on their general effort. I want them to be certain that no corrective comment made by myself is meant to offend them personally or diminish the importance of their contribution to the Wikipedia project. Having made that clear, we can now proceed to my comments and/or suggestions, formulated on the basis of
the GA promotion criteria:
Lead Section, Zeno's arguments are divided into... required to cross any distance.
It would be nicer if repetition of the words and phrases "arguments" and "invoke the idea" was eradicated. I suggest rephrasing the repetitions to aid the flow of narration.
L'OrfeoSon io12:00, 26 October 2023 (UTC)reply
Lead Section, His ideas have influenced philosophy and mathematics, both in ancient and modern times. Many of his ideas.
Here again, the repetition of "his ideas" is problematic. May I suggest "His ideas have influenced philosophy and mathematics, both in ancient and modern times. Many of the notions he introduced".
L'OrfeoSon io12:00, 26 October 2023 (UTC)reply
Since this is the main body we are dealing with, the use c. is not so suitable; usually, in the main body all the details pertaining to a person's biography are given in full form. I think "Zeno was born at around 490 BC."
L'OrfeoSon io12:07, 26 October 2023 (UTC)reply
Life, Zeno is portrayed in the dialogue Parmenides by Plato, which takes place when Zeno is about 40 years old.
Again, to avoid repetition of the philosopher's name, I'd suggest " Zeno is portrayed... which takes place when he is about 40 years old." or "when the Eleatic is", or something of the sort.
L'OrfeoSon io12:07, 26 October 2023 (UTC)reply
Life, In Parmenides, Zeno is described as having once been a zealous defender of his instructor Parmenides. This younger Zeno wished to prove that belief in the physical world as it appears is more absurd than belief in the Eleatic idea of a single entity of existence.
May I suggest using a semicolon to link these two sentences? They are closely related in terms of meaning. ("In Parmenides, Zeno is ... Parmenides; this younger Zeno wished to prove... existence.)
L'OrfeoSon io12:16, 26 October 2023 (UTC)reply
Life, This younger Zeno wished to prove that belief in the physical world as it appears is more absurd than belief in the Eleatic idea of a single entity of existence.
Life, Socrates also hints at a previous romantic or sexual relationship between Parmenides and Zeno.
Here we have a serious issue of context: this sentence is much too potent to be given without a few more details. I would suggest adding at which work —not Socrates', he wrote none— and by whom it was written that Socrates insinuated such a relationship; it would also be nice if some small description of the relationship's nature was given, without aiming at sensationalism.
L'OrfeoSon io12:16, 26 October 2023 (UTC)reply
Philosophy, While Melissus sought to build on them, Zeno instead confronted other ideas and argued against them..
The sentence doesn't really make sense in its present form. I suspect what is meant is that "Zeno instead confronted ideas which were contrary to monism, and argued against them."
L'OrfeoSon io15:49, 26 October 2023 (UTC)reply
Philosophy, He may be accused of comparing similarities between concepts, such as attributes that physical space shared with physical objects, and then assuming that they be identical in other ways.
Philosophy, Plurality and space, In another argument, Zeno proposed that multiple objects... He held that in order... dividing them.
Second sentence closely related to the first, I would suggest using a semicolon to link them, i.e. "In another argument, Zeno... ovjects; He...".
L'OrfeoSon io20:01, 26 October 2023 (UTC)reply
Philosophy, Plurality and space, He argued from the assumption that for all things that exist, they must exist in a certain point in physical space
Although I personally understand the meaning of this sentence, I sense it will bewilder most readers... Could the contributor(s) make it a bit more clear?
L'OrfeoSon io20:01, 26 October 2023 (UTC)reply
Legacy, Ancient philosophy, Aristotle disagreed, believing them to be worthy of consideration. Aristotle challenged... Aristotle contented... Aristotle also challenged... to pass. The paradox of Achilles and the tortoise may have influenced Aristotle's...Zeno's arguments.
Extensive repetition of "Aristotle". Try "Aristotle disagreed...consideration.He challenged... He contended... Aristotle also challenged Zeno's...to pass. The paradox... may have influenced the Stagirite philosopher's belief that... Zeno's arguments".
L'OrfeoSon io20:33, 26 October 2023 (UTC)reply
Legacy, Modern era, His philosophy shows a contrast between
Here, "his" should become "Zeno's", since the previous sentences refer not to the subject itself, but to an object the subject produced (the paradoxes).
L'OrfeoSon io09:49, 27 October 2023 (UTC)reply
Legacy, Modern era, Mathematics and philosophy continued studying infinitesimals
"Mathematicians and philosophers continued studying..." is more proper, since, logically speaking, people can "study", while sciences cannot.
L'OrfeoSon io09:49, 27 October 2023 (UTC)reply
Legacy, Modern era, There is no definitive agreement...
Since this is the final sentence, indeed contrasting the previous statements, a "However", or a "To this day" or something of the sort should be placed before it.
L'OrfeoSon io09:49, 27 October 2023 (UTC)reply
The paragraph includes various references to mathematics, mathematical thought and practice, and thus the section's title "Ancient philosophy" is not exactly suitable. It would be more fit to name the section "Antiquity", for it to also match the section named "Modern era", a title that includes no reference to philosophy or mathematics, but rather to a time period.
L'OrfeoSon io20:22, 26 October 2023 (UTC)reply
General comment: "Behaviour" is British English, but other than that, I could not find clear signs of British or American English. If a decision is made, the respective signs should be placed above the article's first sentence and at the talk page.
L'OrfeoSon io09:49, 27 October 2023 (UTC)reply
True. I'd like to note that in the "References section", writers like "Vlastos, Gregory" that have a respective Wikipedia article should be linked to it.
L'OrfeoSon io14:17, 27 October 2023 (UTC)reply
Hi - sorry to butt in as an outsider; it looks like tbua's been away since the end of the WikiCup (a few weeks now), leaving several GANs open - one has already failed because of this, which is a dreadful shame. I've added links to the References and Further Reading sections - there's a few authors which have decent pages on WikiData, so I can link those too if you want. Frzzltalk;contribs11:29, 4 December 2023 (UTC)reply
Thank you for your timely intervention fellow Wikipedian, you are most welcome.
Since our initial cooperation had been just fine, and bearing in mind that TBUA is an excellent GA-nominator and contributor, I soon came to realise that something wasn't quite alright. I hope all is well with the user —in terms of personal health, at least.
I'll just finish the spot-checking and pass the article; I wouldn't fail it, because this particular user had expressed interest in the procedure early on.
L'OrfeoSon io 12:47 4 December 2023 (UTC)
[32]: In the source, the Quantum Zeno effect is indeed described, but I found no direct linkage of the arrow paradox to the QZ effect. For this reason, I found a reliable (
Cambridge University Press and recent (published in 2023) source in which the arrow paradox and the QZE are directly linked (the source is "Quantum Theory, A Foundational Approach" by Charis Anastopoulos). I citated the source following the style used by the main contributor, i.e. that for sources cited only once and for very specific subjects, such as quantum mechanics, Harvard style referencing is not preferred.
The philosopher's surviving arguments, their influence and acceptance are presented. (At least some of) those who opposed them are also included.
L'OrfeoSon io20:39, 26 October 2023 (UTC)reply
not found link at the "External links"; I suggest that the link is given with a reference to the source (here it is the "Internet Encyclopedia of Philosophy"), like Palmer, John. "Zeno of Elea". In Zalta, Edward N. (ed.). Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy. The same should be done with the external links "Plato's Parmenides", "Aristotle's Physics" and "Fragments of Zeno", to ensure style uniformity.
L'OrfeoSon io10:16, 27 October 2023 (UTC)reply
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
This subject is of great interest to me; I am very pleased to have the chance to review it. For a start, I would like to congratulate the contributor(s) on their general effort. I want them to be certain that no corrective comment made by myself is meant to offend them personally or diminish the importance of their contribution to the Wikipedia project. Having made that clear, we can now proceed to my comments and/or suggestions, formulated on the basis of
the GA promotion criteria:
Lead Section, Zeno's arguments are divided into... required to cross any distance.
It would be nicer if repetition of the words and phrases "arguments" and "invoke the idea" was eradicated. I suggest rephrasing the repetitions to aid the flow of narration.
L'OrfeoSon io12:00, 26 October 2023 (UTC)reply
Lead Section, His ideas have influenced philosophy and mathematics, both in ancient and modern times. Many of his ideas.
Here again, the repetition of "his ideas" is problematic. May I suggest "His ideas have influenced philosophy and mathematics, both in ancient and modern times. Many of the notions he introduced".
L'OrfeoSon io12:00, 26 October 2023 (UTC)reply
Since this is the main body we are dealing with, the use c. is not so suitable; usually, in the main body all the details pertaining to a person's biography are given in full form. I think "Zeno was born at around 490 BC."
L'OrfeoSon io12:07, 26 October 2023 (UTC)reply
Life, Zeno is portrayed in the dialogue Parmenides by Plato, which takes place when Zeno is about 40 years old.
Again, to avoid repetition of the philosopher's name, I'd suggest " Zeno is portrayed... which takes place when he is about 40 years old." or "when the Eleatic is", or something of the sort.
L'OrfeoSon io12:07, 26 October 2023 (UTC)reply
Life, In Parmenides, Zeno is described as having once been a zealous defender of his instructor Parmenides. This younger Zeno wished to prove that belief in the physical world as it appears is more absurd than belief in the Eleatic idea of a single entity of existence.
May I suggest using a semicolon to link these two sentences? They are closely related in terms of meaning. ("In Parmenides, Zeno is ... Parmenides; this younger Zeno wished to prove... existence.)
L'OrfeoSon io12:16, 26 October 2023 (UTC)reply
Life, This younger Zeno wished to prove that belief in the physical world as it appears is more absurd than belief in the Eleatic idea of a single entity of existence.
Life, Socrates also hints at a previous romantic or sexual relationship between Parmenides and Zeno.
Here we have a serious issue of context: this sentence is much too potent to be given without a few more details. I would suggest adding at which work —not Socrates', he wrote none— and by whom it was written that Socrates insinuated such a relationship; it would also be nice if some small description of the relationship's nature was given, without aiming at sensationalism.
L'OrfeoSon io12:16, 26 October 2023 (UTC)reply
Philosophy, While Melissus sought to build on them, Zeno instead confronted other ideas and argued against them..
The sentence doesn't really make sense in its present form. I suspect what is meant is that "Zeno instead confronted ideas which were contrary to monism, and argued against them."
L'OrfeoSon io15:49, 26 October 2023 (UTC)reply
Philosophy, He may be accused of comparing similarities between concepts, such as attributes that physical space shared with physical objects, and then assuming that they be identical in other ways.
Philosophy, Plurality and space, In another argument, Zeno proposed that multiple objects... He held that in order... dividing them.
Second sentence closely related to the first, I would suggest using a semicolon to link them, i.e. "In another argument, Zeno... ovjects; He...".
L'OrfeoSon io20:01, 26 October 2023 (UTC)reply
Philosophy, Plurality and space, He argued from the assumption that for all things that exist, they must exist in a certain point in physical space
Although I personally understand the meaning of this sentence, I sense it will bewilder most readers... Could the contributor(s) make it a bit more clear?
L'OrfeoSon io20:01, 26 October 2023 (UTC)reply
Legacy, Ancient philosophy, Aristotle disagreed, believing them to be worthy of consideration. Aristotle challenged... Aristotle contented... Aristotle also challenged... to pass. The paradox of Achilles and the tortoise may have influenced Aristotle's...Zeno's arguments.
Extensive repetition of "Aristotle". Try "Aristotle disagreed...consideration.He challenged... He contended... Aristotle also challenged Zeno's...to pass. The paradox... may have influenced the Stagirite philosopher's belief that... Zeno's arguments".
L'OrfeoSon io20:33, 26 October 2023 (UTC)reply
Legacy, Modern era, His philosophy shows a contrast between
Here, "his" should become "Zeno's", since the previous sentences refer not to the subject itself, but to an object the subject produced (the paradoxes).
L'OrfeoSon io09:49, 27 October 2023 (UTC)reply
Legacy, Modern era, Mathematics and philosophy continued studying infinitesimals
"Mathematicians and philosophers continued studying..." is more proper, since, logically speaking, people can "study", while sciences cannot.
L'OrfeoSon io09:49, 27 October 2023 (UTC)reply
Legacy, Modern era, There is no definitive agreement...
Since this is the final sentence, indeed contrasting the previous statements, a "However", or a "To this day" or something of the sort should be placed before it.
L'OrfeoSon io09:49, 27 October 2023 (UTC)reply
The paragraph includes various references to mathematics, mathematical thought and practice, and thus the section's title "Ancient philosophy" is not exactly suitable. It would be more fit to name the section "Antiquity", for it to also match the section named "Modern era", a title that includes no reference to philosophy or mathematics, but rather to a time period.
L'OrfeoSon io20:22, 26 October 2023 (UTC)reply
General comment: "Behaviour" is British English, but other than that, I could not find clear signs of British or American English. If a decision is made, the respective signs should be placed above the article's first sentence and at the talk page.
L'OrfeoSon io09:49, 27 October 2023 (UTC)reply
True. I'd like to note that in the "References section", writers like "Vlastos, Gregory" that have a respective Wikipedia article should be linked to it.
L'OrfeoSon io14:17, 27 October 2023 (UTC)reply
Hi - sorry to butt in as an outsider; it looks like tbua's been away since the end of the WikiCup (a few weeks now), leaving several GANs open - one has already failed because of this, which is a dreadful shame. I've added links to the References and Further Reading sections - there's a few authors which have decent pages on WikiData, so I can link those too if you want. Frzzltalk;contribs11:29, 4 December 2023 (UTC)reply
Thank you for your timely intervention fellow Wikipedian, you are most welcome.
Since our initial cooperation had been just fine, and bearing in mind that TBUA is an excellent GA-nominator and contributor, I soon came to realise that something wasn't quite alright. I hope all is well with the user —in terms of personal health, at least.
I'll just finish the spot-checking and pass the article; I wouldn't fail it, because this particular user had expressed interest in the procedure early on.
L'OrfeoSon io 12:47 4 December 2023 (UTC)
[32]: In the source, the Quantum Zeno effect is indeed described, but I found no direct linkage of the arrow paradox to the QZ effect. For this reason, I found a reliable (
Cambridge University Press and recent (published in 2023) source in which the arrow paradox and the QZE are directly linked (the source is "Quantum Theory, A Foundational Approach" by Charis Anastopoulos). I citated the source following the style used by the main contributor, i.e. that for sources cited only once and for very specific subjects, such as quantum mechanics, Harvard style referencing is not preferred.
The philosopher's surviving arguments, their influence and acceptance are presented. (At least some of) those who opposed them are also included.
L'OrfeoSon io20:39, 26 October 2023 (UTC)reply
not found link at the "External links"; I suggest that the link is given with a reference to the source (here it is the "Internet Encyclopedia of Philosophy"), like Palmer, John. "Zeno of Elea". In Zalta, Edward N. (ed.). Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy. The same should be done with the external links "Plato's Parmenides", "Aristotle's Physics" and "Fragments of Zeno", to ensure style uniformity.
L'OrfeoSon io10:16, 27 October 2023 (UTC)reply
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.