This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Zenith article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
![]() | This ![]() It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||
|
Is the article correct in saying that it's 90 degrees " altitude"? From the Wikipedia entry, altitude is a measure of length. Perhaps attitude is the right term? -- Cluster 02:14, May 9, 2004 (UTC)
Yes, it is correct. See Celestial_coordinate_system, specifically Horizontal_coordinate_system. Baltam314 ( talk)
IMHO the use of latitude in this article is incorrect. Altitude or elevation are the usual terms used to refer to the angle between an object and the horizon. For example, the article Horizontal coordinate system uses altitude. Sometimes the qualifier above the horizon is used when there is a possibility of confusion between the height above the horizon and above sea level.
This article is incorrect when read in the southern hemisphere. Htaccess 12:04, 9 May 2006 (UTC)
Re-wrote the entire page to correct inaccuracies and provide a more solid scientific basis. Here is a discussion of the problems with the earlier contents and how this has been changed:
- Although the reference to a point is very common, it is much more appropriate to refer to the zenith as a direction. The latter can be defined and measured, the former is an immaterial concept hard to pin down when the celestial sphere has an infinite radius.
- The sky is a vague concept, inappropriate in this context, and the zenith direction at a point exists irrespective of whether there is an observer at that point. Avoid anthropocentric definitions. Similarly, the words above (and below) are unnecessarily vague in the context.
- The local horizontal coordinate system uses the zenith as one of its references axes. Using this fact as part of the definition of the zenith is a circular argument.
- Note that the definition of local meridian should be updated to be in line with the current definition of the zenith.
- The zenith-nadir line usually does not pass exactly by the center of the Earth: See vertical direction and vertical deflection for more information on this point.
- The Sun is not at the observer's zenith at the stated dates. On any particular day and time, the Sun is at the zenith of some location on Earth. I have removed this erroneous section entirely.
- Similarly, analytic geometry is not typically using the expression zenith angle, so I have not kept that paragraph. However, I have included information on the zenith angle (without the notation, which is purely arbitrary).
- Moved the statement about zenith being the highest point to the disambiguation page.
- Replaced the reference to Desktop Planetarium with references to published scientific glossaries, as well as an etymological dictionary.
Hope this helps. -- Michel M Verstraete 23:14, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
There is some precedent for using zenith to mean the event of culmination. It's sometimes found in the term "lunar zenith," meaning the time or event when (or point where) the Moon is at its highest for the day; Wikipedia's own Tide article uses this phrase. This usage of "zenith" is permitted by Webster's NCD, sense 2, but a Google search using the query
finds no more than 80 distinct matches. As I did not find much evidence that this sense of the word is in wide use, I'll just mention it here and not on the main Zenith page.
(Notice it was necessary to filter out "lunar zenith angle" and "lunar zenith distance" because these phrases refer to a zenith which is directly overhead, and so are not evidence of a concept of a non-overhead zenith). -- JEBrown87544 02:59, 4 January 2007 (UTC)
I believe that a explanatory picture, both for this article and the Nadir article would be really nice! —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 200.185.233.207 ( talk) 01:45, 21 February 2007 (UTC).
A request was made at the Graphic Lab for such an Image: your comments would be welcome. -- Dave the Rave (DTR) talk 09:39, 16 August 2007 (UTC)
I have read in some article that the zenith is different for official, civil, nautical etc. Is it that the different departments look at it in different way?
Zenith Type | Angle |
---|---|
official | 90° 50' |
civil | 96° |
nautical | 102° |
astronomical | 108° |
—Preceding unsigned comment added by Ap aravind ( talk • contribs) 11:26, 11 November 2009 (UTC)
The Origin of the word Zenith in the wikipedia page does not correspond with the wiktionary page Is it from سمت الرآس 'samt ar-ra's' itself (meaning direction of the head) or زينات السّمت 'zeenaat as-samt' which would mean 'decorations of the direction', which i don't even understand what it would be referring to. Even if it is that, if I understand it correctly then it is incorrectly written Zeenath as-samt If we can get help please on which is the correct and standardize both please Approsemite ( talk) 19:22, 21 November 2009 (UTC)
Thanks Thesevenseas, that does help. I saw that the definition from 'samt ar-ra's' to be true, however I couldn't find anywhere online that speaks of this "Zeenath as samt" origin, nor it's apparent correct transliteration "zeenaat as-samt". The two etymologies can not be simultaneously correct. There is a big difference between the two because one explination is saying that the origin of the word is 'zeenat', which would mean 'beauties', and the other is saying that it originates from the word 'as-samt', which means 'path'. I'm going to have to delete the former until someone can put a citation for this etymology. Approsemite ( talk) 19:22, 23 November 2009 (UTC)
I don't understand why the speculative — i.e. as likely to be factually wrong as correct — paragraph on pre-arabic "history" of the word is here? TheChrisCarroll ( talk) 08:58, 13 August 2015 (UTC)
"but to an astronomer, the Sun does not have its own zenith" contradicts "the Sun reaches not only its zenith..." 2A00:23CC:2D02:2A01:7900:2EFD:7B7:2B39 ( talk) 17:21, 25 May 2023 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Zenith article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
![]() | This ![]() It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||
|
Is the article correct in saying that it's 90 degrees " altitude"? From the Wikipedia entry, altitude is a measure of length. Perhaps attitude is the right term? -- Cluster 02:14, May 9, 2004 (UTC)
Yes, it is correct. See Celestial_coordinate_system, specifically Horizontal_coordinate_system. Baltam314 ( talk)
IMHO the use of latitude in this article is incorrect. Altitude or elevation are the usual terms used to refer to the angle between an object and the horizon. For example, the article Horizontal coordinate system uses altitude. Sometimes the qualifier above the horizon is used when there is a possibility of confusion between the height above the horizon and above sea level.
This article is incorrect when read in the southern hemisphere. Htaccess 12:04, 9 May 2006 (UTC)
Re-wrote the entire page to correct inaccuracies and provide a more solid scientific basis. Here is a discussion of the problems with the earlier contents and how this has been changed:
- Although the reference to a point is very common, it is much more appropriate to refer to the zenith as a direction. The latter can be defined and measured, the former is an immaterial concept hard to pin down when the celestial sphere has an infinite radius.
- The sky is a vague concept, inappropriate in this context, and the zenith direction at a point exists irrespective of whether there is an observer at that point. Avoid anthropocentric definitions. Similarly, the words above (and below) are unnecessarily vague in the context.
- The local horizontal coordinate system uses the zenith as one of its references axes. Using this fact as part of the definition of the zenith is a circular argument.
- Note that the definition of local meridian should be updated to be in line with the current definition of the zenith.
- The zenith-nadir line usually does not pass exactly by the center of the Earth: See vertical direction and vertical deflection for more information on this point.
- The Sun is not at the observer's zenith at the stated dates. On any particular day and time, the Sun is at the zenith of some location on Earth. I have removed this erroneous section entirely.
- Similarly, analytic geometry is not typically using the expression zenith angle, so I have not kept that paragraph. However, I have included information on the zenith angle (without the notation, which is purely arbitrary).
- Moved the statement about zenith being the highest point to the disambiguation page.
- Replaced the reference to Desktop Planetarium with references to published scientific glossaries, as well as an etymological dictionary.
Hope this helps. -- Michel M Verstraete 23:14, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
There is some precedent for using zenith to mean the event of culmination. It's sometimes found in the term "lunar zenith," meaning the time or event when (or point where) the Moon is at its highest for the day; Wikipedia's own Tide article uses this phrase. This usage of "zenith" is permitted by Webster's NCD, sense 2, but a Google search using the query
finds no more than 80 distinct matches. As I did not find much evidence that this sense of the word is in wide use, I'll just mention it here and not on the main Zenith page.
(Notice it was necessary to filter out "lunar zenith angle" and "lunar zenith distance" because these phrases refer to a zenith which is directly overhead, and so are not evidence of a concept of a non-overhead zenith). -- JEBrown87544 02:59, 4 January 2007 (UTC)
I believe that a explanatory picture, both for this article and the Nadir article would be really nice! —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 200.185.233.207 ( talk) 01:45, 21 February 2007 (UTC).
A request was made at the Graphic Lab for such an Image: your comments would be welcome. -- Dave the Rave (DTR) talk 09:39, 16 August 2007 (UTC)
I have read in some article that the zenith is different for official, civil, nautical etc. Is it that the different departments look at it in different way?
Zenith Type | Angle |
---|---|
official | 90° 50' |
civil | 96° |
nautical | 102° |
astronomical | 108° |
—Preceding unsigned comment added by Ap aravind ( talk • contribs) 11:26, 11 November 2009 (UTC)
The Origin of the word Zenith in the wikipedia page does not correspond with the wiktionary page Is it from سمت الرآس 'samt ar-ra's' itself (meaning direction of the head) or زينات السّمت 'zeenaat as-samt' which would mean 'decorations of the direction', which i don't even understand what it would be referring to. Even if it is that, if I understand it correctly then it is incorrectly written Zeenath as-samt If we can get help please on which is the correct and standardize both please Approsemite ( talk) 19:22, 21 November 2009 (UTC)
Thanks Thesevenseas, that does help. I saw that the definition from 'samt ar-ra's' to be true, however I couldn't find anywhere online that speaks of this "Zeenath as samt" origin, nor it's apparent correct transliteration "zeenaat as-samt". The two etymologies can not be simultaneously correct. There is a big difference between the two because one explination is saying that the origin of the word is 'zeenat', which would mean 'beauties', and the other is saying that it originates from the word 'as-samt', which means 'path'. I'm going to have to delete the former until someone can put a citation for this etymology. Approsemite ( talk) 19:22, 23 November 2009 (UTC)
I don't understand why the speculative — i.e. as likely to be factually wrong as correct — paragraph on pre-arabic "history" of the word is here? TheChrisCarroll ( talk) 08:58, 13 August 2015 (UTC)
"but to an astronomer, the Sun does not have its own zenith" contradicts "the Sun reaches not only its zenith..." 2A00:23CC:2D02:2A01:7900:2EFD:7B7:2B39 ( talk) 17:21, 25 May 2023 (UTC)