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Is there any evidence this inspired the Campbeltown raid? Trekphiler 10:38, 20 October 2006 (UTC)
The picture of the wreck of the Vindictive has no business here. Vindictive was sunk in the Second Ostend Raid and the picture should be transferred to that article. The only portion of the picture which applies to Zeebrugge is the small shot of the memorial in the upper left-hand corner. The caption is specific that the memorial is at Zeebrugge and the Vindictive wreck at Ostend. Cenedi ( talk) 11:50, 12 May 2009 (UTC)
The Times of 20 February 1919 carried the Admiralty report into the raid. Would be an excellent source to expand this article with. Available online but a susbscription is required. Possibly accessible to any UK editor with a library card (definitely available with Kent library card via link on my user page). Mjroots ( talk) 06:57, 11 March 2011 (UTC)
HMS North Star, an Admiralty M class destroyer, was sunk by shell fire. — Preceding unsigned comment added by URTh de ( talk • contribs) 20:40, 2 April 2013 (UTC)
Did most but couldn't find one for the 1964 commemoration or the nominal rolls for the submarines. Keith-264 ( talk) 00:54, 26 June 2013 (UTC)
Can't find any details of these reports in the interweb for the citations and bibliography, can anyone help? Keith-264 ( talk) 11:23, 23 February 2015 (UTC)
This is a German victory not indecisive. The Allies had losses, Germans not really, and the plan failed in its objectives. So it was a successful defense, though partly not because of German prowess 162.213.136.97 ( talk) 02:27, 23 April 2016 (UTC)
Excellent addition, Template:HMS useful for anyone not aware. Regards Keith-264 ( talk) 16:15, 21 August 2016 (UTC)
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@ Keith-264: (as I see from the edit history that you have been working on the article).
I noticed that a couple of the Zeebrugge memorials and burials/unknown graves are not covered in the article yet. I added two photos here, but leaving this talk page note as I am not sure how many graves in Zeebrugge Churchyard are casualties from the Raid (from either side). If there are sources out there about this, then that can be added to the article text.
There is a major memorial not mentioned in the article yet. This is the large memorial that was unveiled in 1925 on the mole in Zeebrugge (the memorial was a stone column topped by a bronze sculpture of St George slaying the dragon). This memorial was destroyed by the Germans in WW2 (in 1942) due to it being a potential range marker for navy bombardment. Hopefully that is all covered in reliable sources somewhere. Carcharoth ( talk) 02:25, 18 January 2018 (UTC)
There are a number of graves and features in Zeebrugge Churchyard commemorating casualties of this raid:
Carcharoth ( talk) 04:20, 20 January 2018 (UTC)
A number of the above questions are answered here. Translating that gives a good idea of the history, though most of the material could go at and article on Zeebrugge Churchyard which has enough of a history to sustain an article, IMO. Carcharoth ( talk) 11:44, 20 January 2018 (UTC)
Of the 185 named casualty records named on gravestones in Zeebrugge Churchyard, 10 died on 23 April 1918. These are likely (but not definitely) casualties of the Raid. Some casualties that died at a later date but were still buried here may also have been casualties of the Raid. The 10 recorded as having died the day of the Raid are 7 Germans and 3 British:
Carcharoth ( talk) 04:27, 20 January 2018 (UTC)
The Victoria Crosses:
Carcharoth ( talk) 04:41, 20 January 2018 (UTC)
The article currently says the raid was originally intended for 2 April, but was called off. Is this correct? Some sources I am looking at say 12 April. Is 2 April a typo? One of the sources is the deaths on 12 April, again listed here. Also look under 12 April here. FWIW, the 4 graves (and two memorial to the missing entries) of the six casualties from CMB.33A, coastal motor boat are:
This sort of cross-referencing is tedious, but relatively easy to do. Three of the burials ended up in Dunkirk Town Cemetery, one in Coxyde Military Cemetery and one each on the Plymouth and Portsmouth Naval Memorials. It would be possible to go through the longer list of casualties for the actual raid of 23 April (and the died of wounds casualties) and see where they are buried (most presumably in Dover), but that would take a while. Someone might have done it already. Maybe not. Not really something that has much use for the Wikipedia article, as this sort of cross-referencing borders on original research. One of the reasons it gets done sometimes (as well as aiding those researching their family history) is to help narrow down the identity of the unknowns. Some of those listed as unknowns will be actual unknown burials in CWGC graveyards (rather than lost at sea). Carcharoth ( talk) 10:51, 20 January 2018 (UTC)
Zeeraider,, those additions go under External links. Regards Keith-264 ( talk) 16:48, 31 May 2018 (UTC)
IWM collection items seem to be sufficient to note some of the memorials. Eg the plaque that Iris II carried after returning to civilian service GraemeLeggett ( talk) 16:01, 21 March 2021 (UTC)
@ Keith H99: Thanks for the attention to the article but you oughtn't alter a source to a later edition because it might be different - the text may have been revised and the page numbers might not correspond. Regards Keith-264 ( talk) 16:19, 27 February 2022 (UTC)
Recognising some traffic on the battle result portion of the infobox, without prejudice to any one result, I'd like to hear the source argument for an 'Indicisve' conclusion.-- Labattblueboy ( talk) 21:31, 30 May 2022 (UTC)
@ DuncanHill:: the in-to-out order of the three cruisers is different in the map and in the caption of the photo. 151.29.133.9 ( talk) 18:09, 9 April 2023 (UTC)
Added detail from Coleman to the pic caption. Keith-264 ( talk) 09:02, 11 April 2023 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Zeebrugge Raid article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
A fact from this article was featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the On this day section on April 23, 2015, April 23, 2016, April 23, 2018, and April 23, 2021. |
This article is rated B-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Is there any evidence this inspired the Campbeltown raid? Trekphiler 10:38, 20 October 2006 (UTC)
The picture of the wreck of the Vindictive has no business here. Vindictive was sunk in the Second Ostend Raid and the picture should be transferred to that article. The only portion of the picture which applies to Zeebrugge is the small shot of the memorial in the upper left-hand corner. The caption is specific that the memorial is at Zeebrugge and the Vindictive wreck at Ostend. Cenedi ( talk) 11:50, 12 May 2009 (UTC)
The Times of 20 February 1919 carried the Admiralty report into the raid. Would be an excellent source to expand this article with. Available online but a susbscription is required. Possibly accessible to any UK editor with a library card (definitely available with Kent library card via link on my user page). Mjroots ( talk) 06:57, 11 March 2011 (UTC)
HMS North Star, an Admiralty M class destroyer, was sunk by shell fire. — Preceding unsigned comment added by URTh de ( talk • contribs) 20:40, 2 April 2013 (UTC)
Did most but couldn't find one for the 1964 commemoration or the nominal rolls for the submarines. Keith-264 ( talk) 00:54, 26 June 2013 (UTC)
Can't find any details of these reports in the interweb for the citations and bibliography, can anyone help? Keith-264 ( talk) 11:23, 23 February 2015 (UTC)
This is a German victory not indecisive. The Allies had losses, Germans not really, and the plan failed in its objectives. So it was a successful defense, though partly not because of German prowess 162.213.136.97 ( talk) 02:27, 23 April 2016 (UTC)
Excellent addition, Template:HMS useful for anyone not aware. Regards Keith-264 ( talk) 16:15, 21 August 2016 (UTC)
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I have just modified one external link on Zeebrugge Raid. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
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This message was posted before February 2018.
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(last update: 18 January 2022).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 23:35, 4 December 2017 (UTC)
@ Keith-264: (as I see from the edit history that you have been working on the article).
I noticed that a couple of the Zeebrugge memorials and burials/unknown graves are not covered in the article yet. I added two photos here, but leaving this talk page note as I am not sure how many graves in Zeebrugge Churchyard are casualties from the Raid (from either side). If there are sources out there about this, then that can be added to the article text.
There is a major memorial not mentioned in the article yet. This is the large memorial that was unveiled in 1925 on the mole in Zeebrugge (the memorial was a stone column topped by a bronze sculpture of St George slaying the dragon). This memorial was destroyed by the Germans in WW2 (in 1942) due to it being a potential range marker for navy bombardment. Hopefully that is all covered in reliable sources somewhere. Carcharoth ( talk) 02:25, 18 January 2018 (UTC)
There are a number of graves and features in Zeebrugge Churchyard commemorating casualties of this raid:
Carcharoth ( talk) 04:20, 20 January 2018 (UTC)
A number of the above questions are answered here. Translating that gives a good idea of the history, though most of the material could go at and article on Zeebrugge Churchyard which has enough of a history to sustain an article, IMO. Carcharoth ( talk) 11:44, 20 January 2018 (UTC)
Of the 185 named casualty records named on gravestones in Zeebrugge Churchyard, 10 died on 23 April 1918. These are likely (but not definitely) casualties of the Raid. Some casualties that died at a later date but were still buried here may also have been casualties of the Raid. The 10 recorded as having died the day of the Raid are 7 Germans and 3 British:
Carcharoth ( talk) 04:27, 20 January 2018 (UTC)
The Victoria Crosses:
Carcharoth ( talk) 04:41, 20 January 2018 (UTC)
The article currently says the raid was originally intended for 2 April, but was called off. Is this correct? Some sources I am looking at say 12 April. Is 2 April a typo? One of the sources is the deaths on 12 April, again listed here. Also look under 12 April here. FWIW, the 4 graves (and two memorial to the missing entries) of the six casualties from CMB.33A, coastal motor boat are:
This sort of cross-referencing is tedious, but relatively easy to do. Three of the burials ended up in Dunkirk Town Cemetery, one in Coxyde Military Cemetery and one each on the Plymouth and Portsmouth Naval Memorials. It would be possible to go through the longer list of casualties for the actual raid of 23 April (and the died of wounds casualties) and see where they are buried (most presumably in Dover), but that would take a while. Someone might have done it already. Maybe not. Not really something that has much use for the Wikipedia article, as this sort of cross-referencing borders on original research. One of the reasons it gets done sometimes (as well as aiding those researching their family history) is to help narrow down the identity of the unknowns. Some of those listed as unknowns will be actual unknown burials in CWGC graveyards (rather than lost at sea). Carcharoth ( talk) 10:51, 20 January 2018 (UTC)
Zeeraider,, those additions go under External links. Regards Keith-264 ( talk) 16:48, 31 May 2018 (UTC)
IWM collection items seem to be sufficient to note some of the memorials. Eg the plaque that Iris II carried after returning to civilian service GraemeLeggett ( talk) 16:01, 21 March 2021 (UTC)
@ Keith H99: Thanks for the attention to the article but you oughtn't alter a source to a later edition because it might be different - the text may have been revised and the page numbers might not correspond. Regards Keith-264 ( talk) 16:19, 27 February 2022 (UTC)
Recognising some traffic on the battle result portion of the infobox, without prejudice to any one result, I'd like to hear the source argument for an 'Indicisve' conclusion.-- Labattblueboy ( talk) 21:31, 30 May 2022 (UTC)
@ DuncanHill:: the in-to-out order of the three cruisers is different in the map and in the caption of the photo. 151.29.133.9 ( talk) 18:09, 9 April 2023 (UTC)
Added detail from Coleman to the pic caption. Keith-264 ( talk) 09:02, 11 April 2023 (UTC)