![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 |
This section should probably be replaced with paragraph explaining how zcash mining actually works and perhaps how it compares to bitcoin, etc.
Thoughts? – JonathanCross ( talk) 14:58, 18 January 2017 (UTC)
I have noticed that the Zcash Wikipedia page has not been updated in a long time, or still contains old information (such as some areas still referring to the Beta). I plan on slowly updating each section at a time listing plenty of references for every edit and remaining neutral in all instances.
If you have a question or issue with something I have edited please feel free to contact me any time. — Preceding unsigned comment added by GibsonA ( talk • contribs) 22:40, 11 May 2017 (UTC)
Heather-Hit is trying to place a list of exchanges that deal in Zcash into the article. In the latest there were 8 exchanges listed, two of them have articles. All of them are only sourced to the company website. One of the articles linked says it deals in Zcash, the other one does not mention Zcash. This looks like a directory, which Wikipedia is not. ~ GB fan 16:34, 15 June 2017 (UTC)
User:Verifiedaccount the source makes it clear that the "founders will end up with 10% of all coins issued; the 20% is only at the beginning and is evened out later. Why did you change it to emphasis the brief time at the beginning? Jytdog ( talk) 04:17, 11 September 2017 (UTC)
You are completely misreading the section that I wrote. It's not emphasizing anything unfairly:
Unlike Bitcoin, Zcash takes a "founders reward" of 20% for all coins generated for the first four years. When all 21 million coins have been generated, the founders will own up to 10% of coins in circulation. The founders reward is distributed to the founders, investors, employees and advisors of Zcash.
1. unlike bitcoin: used to parallel the sentence prior to it. "like bitcoin, zcash has a fixed supply of 21 million units" blah blah blah -- "unlike bitcoin, zcash takes a cut" blah blah blah
2. zcash takes a "founders reward" of 20% for all coins generated for the first four years: do you not understand that? they take 20% of all coins generated for the first four years. it is later explained that by the end of the 21 million supply generation, their stake will be 10%.
3. when all 21 million coins have been generated, the founders will own up to 10% of coins in circulation: this is to say that after those first four years are up, they will not take a cut any longer. down the line, years later, when all 21 million coins are generated, they will own up to 10% of the supply.
4. the founders reward is distributed to the founders, investors, employees and advisors of Zcash: this is to explain who the founders are
Long story short -- they take a 20% cut FOR THE FIRST FOUR YEARS. THEN, WHEN ALL 21 MILLION COINS HAVE BEEN GENERATED (AFTER THE FIRST FOUR YEARS, THEY DO NOT GET A CUT ANYMORE), their stake will be 10% of all coins in circulation.
You are reverting changes for absolutely no reason. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Verifiedaccount ( talk • contribs) 09:07, 12 September 2017 (UTC)
CredaCash Jackzhp ( talk) 03:24, 13 November 2017 (UTC)
![]() | The following Wikipedia contributor has declared a personal or professional connection to the subject of this article. Relevant policies and guidelines may include
conflict of interest,
autobiography, and
neutral point of view. Their edits to this article were last checked for neutrality on 2017-12-20 by Jytdog. |
Regarding edits made today (2017-12-20) by Jytdog:
I believe these edits should be undone or revised accordingly. Lukedmor ( talk) 20:25, 20 December 2017 (UTC)
ZClassic & ZenCash Jackzhp ( talk) 03:24, 13 November 2017 (UTC)
Ycash Elysianfields ( talk) 06:05, 11 August 2019 (UTC)
@ Elena ECC: you left a message on my talk page here asking about sources. It is more difficult to add content to cryptocurrency articles due to sourcing guidelines consensus that is in place. Thus we are not using sources like coindesk, cointelegraph, etc as they are deemed as not WP:RS. I know this might be frustrating, but at wikipedia we aim to err on the side of reliability rather than completeness. Thank you! Jtbobwaysf ( talk) 19:29, 4 May 2020 (UTC)
@ Jtbobwaysf: thanks for the quick response. I'll update the proposed revisions based on that feedback.
In what ways can this article reference the Zcash Protocol Specification ( web-friendly URL that supports linking into the PDF, source file) or individual Zcash Improvement Proposals (ZIPs) ( source files)? These are technical documents that precisely define the current Zcash consensus rules and protocols (or in the case of draft ZIPs, proposed changes to the consensus rules or protocols), and thus are reliable by design. However, my reading of Wikipedia:Reliable_sources (specifically this section) indicates that these would be treated as primary sources, and thus not generally usable as references outside of specific facts. It would be great to have some clarity here, so that future article modifications can use these resources appropriately.
I ask because I noticed that there are numerous technical mistakes in the current article, many of which could be rectified with appropriate references to the protocol specification. For example, the summary box currently states that the "hash function" used by Zcash is "zk-SNARKs". Putting aside the fact that a zk-SNARK is not a hash function, I assume that what the summary box means by "hash function" is "Proof-of-work algorithm". If so, this should be "Equihash", with a reference to "Section 7.6: Proof of Work. Zcash Protocol Specification, Version 2019.0.4 or later ( https://zips.z.cash/protocol/protocol.pdf#pow)".
Disclosure: I am a cryptographic engineer at the Electric Coin Company (the primary maintainer of the zcashd reference implementation), and one of the designers of the Zcash protocol.
Str4d ( talk) 00:08, 11 August 2019 (UTC)
I think Zcash, Zcash Foundation and Electric Coin Company should be clearly discussed as distinct entities. Currently there is little to no distinction and Zcash Foundation and Electric Coin Company are kind of muddled together.
Zcash is the cryptocurrency. Zcash Foundation and Electric Coin Company (ECC) are two distinct entities. Zcash Foundation and Electric Coin Company are not the same company or different sides of the same coin. Zcash Foundation is a non-profit, while ECC is a for-profit business. In fact, they were in a small trademark dispute that spilled over into public because one of them holds the Zcash logo, and would not sign an agreement to let the other use it. Also see these blog posts from the ZCash Foundation:
To summarize, there are three things going on here:
Jeffrey Walton ( talk) 04:51, 5 June 2021 (UTC)
![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 |
This section should probably be replaced with paragraph explaining how zcash mining actually works and perhaps how it compares to bitcoin, etc.
Thoughts? – JonathanCross ( talk) 14:58, 18 January 2017 (UTC)
I have noticed that the Zcash Wikipedia page has not been updated in a long time, or still contains old information (such as some areas still referring to the Beta). I plan on slowly updating each section at a time listing plenty of references for every edit and remaining neutral in all instances.
If you have a question or issue with something I have edited please feel free to contact me any time. — Preceding unsigned comment added by GibsonA ( talk • contribs) 22:40, 11 May 2017 (UTC)
Heather-Hit is trying to place a list of exchanges that deal in Zcash into the article. In the latest there were 8 exchanges listed, two of them have articles. All of them are only sourced to the company website. One of the articles linked says it deals in Zcash, the other one does not mention Zcash. This looks like a directory, which Wikipedia is not. ~ GB fan 16:34, 15 June 2017 (UTC)
User:Verifiedaccount the source makes it clear that the "founders will end up with 10% of all coins issued; the 20% is only at the beginning and is evened out later. Why did you change it to emphasis the brief time at the beginning? Jytdog ( talk) 04:17, 11 September 2017 (UTC)
You are completely misreading the section that I wrote. It's not emphasizing anything unfairly:
Unlike Bitcoin, Zcash takes a "founders reward" of 20% for all coins generated for the first four years. When all 21 million coins have been generated, the founders will own up to 10% of coins in circulation. The founders reward is distributed to the founders, investors, employees and advisors of Zcash.
1. unlike bitcoin: used to parallel the sentence prior to it. "like bitcoin, zcash has a fixed supply of 21 million units" blah blah blah -- "unlike bitcoin, zcash takes a cut" blah blah blah
2. zcash takes a "founders reward" of 20% for all coins generated for the first four years: do you not understand that? they take 20% of all coins generated for the first four years. it is later explained that by the end of the 21 million supply generation, their stake will be 10%.
3. when all 21 million coins have been generated, the founders will own up to 10% of coins in circulation: this is to say that after those first four years are up, they will not take a cut any longer. down the line, years later, when all 21 million coins are generated, they will own up to 10% of the supply.
4. the founders reward is distributed to the founders, investors, employees and advisors of Zcash: this is to explain who the founders are
Long story short -- they take a 20% cut FOR THE FIRST FOUR YEARS. THEN, WHEN ALL 21 MILLION COINS HAVE BEEN GENERATED (AFTER THE FIRST FOUR YEARS, THEY DO NOT GET A CUT ANYMORE), their stake will be 10% of all coins in circulation.
You are reverting changes for absolutely no reason. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Verifiedaccount ( talk • contribs) 09:07, 12 September 2017 (UTC)
CredaCash Jackzhp ( talk) 03:24, 13 November 2017 (UTC)
![]() | The following Wikipedia contributor has declared a personal or professional connection to the subject of this article. Relevant policies and guidelines may include
conflict of interest,
autobiography, and
neutral point of view. Their edits to this article were last checked for neutrality on 2017-12-20 by Jytdog. |
Regarding edits made today (2017-12-20) by Jytdog:
I believe these edits should be undone or revised accordingly. Lukedmor ( talk) 20:25, 20 December 2017 (UTC)
ZClassic & ZenCash Jackzhp ( talk) 03:24, 13 November 2017 (UTC)
Ycash Elysianfields ( talk) 06:05, 11 August 2019 (UTC)
@ Elena ECC: you left a message on my talk page here asking about sources. It is more difficult to add content to cryptocurrency articles due to sourcing guidelines consensus that is in place. Thus we are not using sources like coindesk, cointelegraph, etc as they are deemed as not WP:RS. I know this might be frustrating, but at wikipedia we aim to err on the side of reliability rather than completeness. Thank you! Jtbobwaysf ( talk) 19:29, 4 May 2020 (UTC)
@ Jtbobwaysf: thanks for the quick response. I'll update the proposed revisions based on that feedback.
In what ways can this article reference the Zcash Protocol Specification ( web-friendly URL that supports linking into the PDF, source file) or individual Zcash Improvement Proposals (ZIPs) ( source files)? These are technical documents that precisely define the current Zcash consensus rules and protocols (or in the case of draft ZIPs, proposed changes to the consensus rules or protocols), and thus are reliable by design. However, my reading of Wikipedia:Reliable_sources (specifically this section) indicates that these would be treated as primary sources, and thus not generally usable as references outside of specific facts. It would be great to have some clarity here, so that future article modifications can use these resources appropriately.
I ask because I noticed that there are numerous technical mistakes in the current article, many of which could be rectified with appropriate references to the protocol specification. For example, the summary box currently states that the "hash function" used by Zcash is "zk-SNARKs". Putting aside the fact that a zk-SNARK is not a hash function, I assume that what the summary box means by "hash function" is "Proof-of-work algorithm". If so, this should be "Equihash", with a reference to "Section 7.6: Proof of Work. Zcash Protocol Specification, Version 2019.0.4 or later ( https://zips.z.cash/protocol/protocol.pdf#pow)".
Disclosure: I am a cryptographic engineer at the Electric Coin Company (the primary maintainer of the zcashd reference implementation), and one of the designers of the Zcash protocol.
Str4d ( talk) 00:08, 11 August 2019 (UTC)
I think Zcash, Zcash Foundation and Electric Coin Company should be clearly discussed as distinct entities. Currently there is little to no distinction and Zcash Foundation and Electric Coin Company are kind of muddled together.
Zcash is the cryptocurrency. Zcash Foundation and Electric Coin Company (ECC) are two distinct entities. Zcash Foundation and Electric Coin Company are not the same company or different sides of the same coin. Zcash Foundation is a non-profit, while ECC is a for-profit business. In fact, they were in a small trademark dispute that spilled over into public because one of them holds the Zcash logo, and would not sign an agreement to let the other use it. Also see these blog posts from the ZCash Foundation:
To summarize, there are three things going on here:
Jeffrey Walton ( talk) 04:51, 5 June 2021 (UTC)