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If you're going to speculate in the etymology of a Scandinavian word it's pretty stupid to base that speculation on how the word is used in English related languages. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.213.91.104 ( talk) 16:08, 30 December 2007 (UTC)
Neopagan Yule: Isn't it backwards on the page? The page states that Oak dies and Yule and Holly ascends at Yule. I believe this is reversed (at least based on Farrar material). Holly is Waning year, which means from Midsummer to Yule, and Oak is Waxing - from Yule to Midsummer - so Yule is actually where Oak ascends and Holly dies. Double check me on this before changing please.
71.252.181.249 ( talk) 05:51, 20 December 2007 (UTC)₵It is indeed backwards, at least according to Farrar. I have just consulted The Witch's God which states on page 35 that the Oak King rules from Midwinter to Midsummer, whilst the Holly King rules from Midsummer to Midwinter.
Below I have pasted a section I came across in the Project Gutenberg edition of HEIMSKRINGLA on early celebrations of Yule. I put it here because of the controversy over "primary sources" and because I am not a Norse expert, but I do think it has some interesting fact which could be in part or in whole posted on the primary page.-- trimalchio
Describe the new page here.Yule in Ancient Norway
from HEIMSKRINGLA
King Hakon was a good Christian when he came to Norway; but as the whole country was heathen, with much heathenish sacrifice, and as many great people, as well as the favour of the common people, were to be conciliated, he resolved to practice his Christianity in private. But he kept Sundays, and the Friday fasts, and some token of the greatest holy-days. He made a law that the festival of Yule should begin at the same time as Christian people held it, and that every man, under penalty, should brew a meal of malt into ale, and therewith keep the Yule holy as long as it lasted. Before him, the beginning of Yule, or the slaughter night, was the night of mid-winter (Dec. 14), and Yule was kept for three days thereafter. It was his intent, as soon as he had set himself fast in the land, and had subjected the whole to his power, to introduce Christianity. He went to work first by enticing to Christianity the men who were dearest to him; and many, out of friendship to him, allowed themselves to be baptized, and some laid aside sacrifices. He dwelt long in the Throndhjem district, for the strength of the country lay there; and when he thought that, by the support of some powerful people there, he could set up Christianity he sent a message to England for a bishop and other teachers; and when they arrived in Norway, Hakon made it known that he would proclaim Christianity over all the land. The people of More and Raumsdal referred the matter to the people of Throndhjem. King Hakon then had several churches consecrated, and put priests into them; and when he came to Throndhjem he summoned the bondes to a Thing, and invited them to accept Christianity. They gave an answer to the effect that they would defer the matter until the Frosta-thing, at which there would be men from every district of the Throndhjem country, and then they would give their determination upon this difficult matter.
Sigurd, earl of Hlader, was one of the greatest men for sacrifices, and so had Hakon his father been; and Sigurd always presided on account of the king at all the festivals of sacrifice in the Throndhjem country. It was an old custom, that when there was to be sacrifice all the bondes should come to the spot where the temple stood and bring with them all that they required while the festival of the sacrifice lasted. To this festival all the men brought ale with them; and all kinds of cattle, as well as horses, were slaughtered, and all the blood that came from them was called “hlaut”, and the vessels in which it was collected were called hlaut-vessels. Hlaut-staves were made, like sprinkling brushes, with which the whole of the altars and the temple walls, both outside and inside, were sprinkled over, and also the people were sprinkled with the blood; but the flesh was boiled into savoury meat for those present. The fire was in the middle of the floor of the temple, and over it hung the kettles, and the full goblets were handed across the fire; and he who made the feast, and was a chief, blessed the full goblets, and all the meat of the sacrifice. And first Odin’s goblet was emptied for victory and power to his king; thereafter, Niord’s and Freyja’s goblets for peace and a good season. Then it was the custom of many to empty the brage-goblet (1); and then the guests emptied a goblet to the memory of departed friends, called the remembrance goblet. Sigurd the earl was an open-handed man, who did what was very much celebrated; namely, he made a great sacrifice festival at Hlader of which he paid all the expenses. Kormak Ogmundson sings of it in his ballad of Sigurd: —
“Of cup or platter need has none
The guest who seeks the generous one, —
Sigurd the Generous, who can trace
His lineage from the giant race;
For Sigurd’s hand is bounteous, free, —
The guardian of the temples he.
He loves the gods, his liberal hand
Scatters his sword’s gains o’er the land-”
ENDNOTES:
(1) The brage-goblet, over which vows were made. — L.
The writer of this article states: "Yule was the winter solstice celebration of the Germanic pagans. In Germanic Neopaganism it is one of the eight solar holidays, or sabbats, where Yule is celebrated on the winter solstice: in the northern hemisphere, circa December 21, and in the southern hemisphere, circa June 21." I would like to point out that our Heathen ancestors did not have 'sabbats.' The sabbat is an invention of modern Wicca, thus associated with late medieval ritual and modern 'paganism,' as opposed to Heathenism.
In this article the writer suggests that the Old English word "géol" is related to geol, the word for yellow. I have read that the word "géol" means "wheel" and referes to the beginning of the wheel of the year.
Nan Hawthorne Dec. 8 noog —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Merriehearted ( talk • contribs) 00:10, 9 December 2006 (UTC).
In rural Ireland, a tradition "lost in the mists of Antiquity" is that of the "wren boys." On December 26, obviously "christianized" as Saint Stephen's Day, young men and boys would capture a wren, and then go from house to house singing various traditional songs. The most popular is that beginning:
The occupants of the houses visited would offer food and sometimes drink and might even join in the general hilarity, some of the younger members going onward with the "wren boys."
This might tie in with the pre-Christian role of the wren as part of Yuletide celebrations in Northern European cultures.-- PeadarMaguidhir 07:23, 22 December 2006 (UTC)
I disagree with the description of Yule as "celebration of the Scandinavian Norse mythology and Germanic pagans. In Germanic Neopaganism" neopaganism is not limited to Scandinavian & Germanic Understanding that Yule Etymology, and its good description of having its roots in "the Scandinavian Norse mythology and Germanic pagans". But this statement is saying Yule is only for Germanic Neopaganism. Its being specific in a way that is excluding of other pagan peoples who also celebrate Yule-time. Recommend making it more general, acknowledge the source, and acknowledge its spread beyond the Norse/Germanic boundaries. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 167.1.120.20 ( talk) 16:11, 22 December 2006 (UTC).
I completely disagree - The Norse/Noreg people are Not Germans! Odin in Old Norse Odhinn, and in German he was called Old High German Wodan or Woutan. Norway is the birthplace of the Yule log. The ancient Norse used the Yule log in their celebration of the return of the sun at winter solstice. "Yule" came from the Norse word hweol, meaning wheel. The Norse believed that the sun was a great wheel of fire that rolled towards and then away from the earth. Ever wonder why the family fireplace is such a central part of the typical Christmas scene? This tradition dates back to the Norse Yule log. It is probably also responsible for the popularity of log-shaped cheese, cakes, and desserts during the holidays. Please change it back to: "celebration of the Scandinavian Norse mythology and Germanic pagans. In Germanic Neopaganism" — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.142.121.55 ( talk) 00:19, 15 December 2013 (UTC)
Check out the Persian Yalda ceremony. Persians celebrate Yalda as longest night of the year on December 21th. It is an ancient ceremony with family gathering, eating food, singing and staying awake until next morning. Yalda relates to Persian Mithraism which goes back to second millennium BC. I guess there is an Indo-European link right there. Even the names have some similarity. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2602:306:37DF:9A60:90B5:4D71:FA7C:1339 ( talk) 00:09, 4 November 2012 (UTC)
"Scandinavian humanist societies" celebrating yuletide are mentioned in the infobox and in the last section. I never heard of such celebrations, other than among a few eccentrics. It is true that most families celebrate "jul", whether they are Christian or un-religious. (Even some muslim families have started celebrating "jul", i.e. to mimic the celebrations of the majority population - food, presents etc. - of course avoiding specific Christian references, and probably avoiding pork too.) But what "humanist societies" are celebrating yuletide? Is it in one of the references? - PS. I'm a Dane.-- Niels Ø (noe) 20:15, 22 December 2006 (UTC)
It looks like we could conclude that humanists do celebrate Yule - individually. -- Profero 18:06, 27 December 2006 (UTC)
The reason I removed
this link to the amateur argument is that its conclusion is based on the assumption that the word "Jol" cannot be related to "Wheel" because "Jol" existed long before the introduction of the wheel to Europe. This conclusion overlooks the fact that a wheel, or any circular object or concept, does not necessarily have to be a practical wheel in that particular sense, and therefore not a good reason to exclude the possibility that people in the ancient tradition of "Yol" couldn't have used the word for a cyclic event. But, on the other hand, this does not disprove (the) other etymological possibilities.
I have also added the {{disputed}} tag and rephrased a few sentences as a consequence.
I suggest there is even a possibility that the bright yellow sun-disc (wheel), could be the origin of all the subsequent different branches: Géol, Jolly, Gold, Guld, Gul, Yéol, Yellow, Yule, Jul, Hjul, Helios!
--
Profero 01:12, 23 December 2006 (UTC)
Did you check OED? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.17.194.130 ( talk) 14:19, 5 January 2007 (UTC)
in the old
manx language, the festival of Geul translates as the festival of
mistletoe. on top of that geul is root to geuley which in manx means shackle, link or chain ring. mistletoe being a parasite, shackles itself to various trees. in pagan tree worship, mistletoe is also considered the link between the trees that rule different times of year. has any one found anything on the manx etymology? it may be the only surviving language to still have a literal meaning for the word.
Some thing 21:50, 6 May 2007 (UTC)
Well, Svenska Akademiens ordbok outright dismisses the connection with "hjul" [3]. The current source in this article is from 1909, so unless someone has something more modern, the section should be rewritten.
Andejons ( talk) 17:57, 26 December 2008 (UTC)
This midwinter I was asked by a friend what my "Jule brag" would be... Old Norse form of a New Year's resolution... Made before the gods... A little more umph than a simple resolution. I can't find anything about this reputed custom on the internet. Might fellow wikipedians help me out? Thanks... Emyth 13:26, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
Is there any source for the date of Yule as Dec. 24 to Jan. 6? This is fourteen days and Yule is usually given as twelve days. The box gives Yule as the Dec. 21 or Dec. 22. This is appearently based on the assumption that Yule is the day of the winter solstice. But what is the basis for claiming this? The article should not be arguing with itself and is therefore in need of a rewrite. The traditional date of Yule was determined by a lunar calendar, so in general none of days of Yule would correspond to the date of the solstice. It is likely that the first day of Yule was the day that the crescent of first new moon of the year became visible. Bede gives the date of Yule as Dec. 25. This is persumably the date Yule was assigned when it was transferred to the Julian calendar, perhaps in order to Christianize the festival. [4] Kauffner 06:46, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
i recant, after reading "pagen history of europe". despite the appropriated traditions, pre-christianianization solstice celebrations didnt seem to be called jul/yule. this however; doesn't negate the currently existing application by many groups, of yule directly to the solstice. Some thing 18:44, 24 April 2007 (UTC)
I would definitely support this from personal experience. It seems like looking for a citation that states that hamsters are a common pet. Glennh70 14:38, 10 April 2007 (UTC)
user:209.214.104.112 has deleted the Norway section several times in protest of the section's bad writing and inaccuracies. All information correlates with the Jul (Norway) article. I doubt this information was made up, but it could be out of date or even misplaced. Citations would be appreciated. The article currently only cites the Norwegian ministries cite. Can any one lend to this issue? 209.214.104.112 13:53, 4 September 2007 (UTC)
The introductory paragrpaph made claim that Christmas was superimposed ideologies over Yule practices. While many neo-pagans make such speculation, Christains would disagree with such notion. This sentence was pure speculation. 69.246.224.100 ( talk) 22:32, 28 December 2007 (UTC)
--The second paragraph: "In pre-Christain times" is too vague... Which centuries?, What Source for Verifiability? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.246.224.100 ( talk) 22:37, 28 December 2007 (UTC)
--The following paragraph needs reworked: In pre-Christian times,[vague] Germanic tribes celebrated Yule from late December to early January on a date determined by a lunar calendar.[1] ((According to...?) When Christianity was just beginning, Christmas was set on the dates of Yule. ((The theory s/he holds is that...)during Christianization, Yule was suppressed by the Christian Church. ((Certain [historians], (authors) (anthropologists) such as, ?, ?, and ? believe that)) many of the Yule traditions were eventually incorporated into Christmas celebrations.[2] (Coloquially) the terms "Yule" and "Christmas" are often used interchangeably[3], ((especially in Christmas carols--delete because context is irrelevent.)) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.246.224.100 ( talk) 18:00, 29 December 2007 (UTC)
Pretty much any reference book you consult will equate Yule with Christmas, thus implying a date of December 25. It was obviously celebrated on a different date in pre-Christian times, but there is no way of knowing what that date was. The claims made to the effect that was celebrated on December 24, June 21, or whatever are unsourced and bogus. Kauffner ( talk) 03:27, 15 November 2008 (UTC)
The impression from intro and "A pagan history of europe" that yule was placed on the 25th but before this yule had only been celebrated by a lunar calendar. However now i read in the King Hakon "hemskringla" above that "Before him, the beginning of Yule, or the slaughter night, was the night of mid-winter (Dec. 14), and Yule was kept for three days thereafter." was there a solar calendar in use in norway before the julian? because otherwise this source doesnt make since. is this source simply using the word yule to describe midvinterblot... 99.140.188.137 ( talk) 17:56, 10 December 2008 (UTC)
I came here looking for what Yule means in the lunar calendar or germanic calendar, as in moon after-yule, or yule-moon since it seems to be the starting place for the lunar calendar. What is the system that keeps the lunar calendars syncronized with the solar calendars? Was yule the first of the moon that included the winter solstice or ( Midvinterblot_(disambiguation)), or the first moon that fell after the solstice, or is the beginning of Yule identical to winter solstice as implied on this article's "Also called" sidebar? Drf5n ( talk) 22:28, 23 February 2009 (UTC)
The quote regarding the attempted suppression of Yule celebration among pagan artisans who swore mutual aid and protection to each other has a familiar ring to anyone who is a Freemason. More books have been written trying to establish a coherent theory of the origin of Freemasonry than one can shake a stick at. The conventional theory is that Freemasonry arose from Medieval Guilds, of which the quote suggests these "confraternities" were the precursor. Can you tell me more about the original source for that quote? Guy of Auvergne ( talk) 19:30, 21 November 2008 (UTC)
Why was the quote and reference removed with no explanation and no answer to my initial question? Guy of Auvergne ( talk) 19:27, 14 December 2008 (UTC)
Why is there no mention in the article about the last day of Yule? Or is it only an Icelandic tradition to have gatherings and bonfires on the 6th of January? Please, any Scandinavians here that can comment. mvh. Anna -- 83.183.0.117 ( talk) 13:09, 30 November 2008 (UTC)
The Iranian world celebrates a winter feast called "yalda", which takes place at the time of winter solstice, (approx. Christmas) and is the traditional mid-winter celebration. The roots of this feast goes back to Mithraist (i.e. paganist) times, when the sun-god Mithra's birthday was thought to be on the day when the days would start to increase in length i.e. when the sun - Mithra's home - would start to increase.
Yalda has definitely at least Iranian and possibly even Indo-European origins, and I'd suggest the same thing for Yule; it was introduced to Europe during the time of Roman rule, when Roman soldiers imported what we call "the Mithra cult" to Europe. I'd recommend double ckecking that and adding that info. Cheers!
Charles
Besides here, one can find many instances of how the Nazis resurrected the Germanic holiday Julfest (the word redirects here to the Yule page, it is the German word for Yule) to replace Christmas. It was spearheaded within the SS by Heinrich Himmler, gifts were no longer to be given (this was replaced to on a summer holiday) and different pagan perceived traditions replaced them like large bonfires and the use of the Julleuchter. This should be mentioned in the modern traditions part of the article. That the Third Reich re-used the holiday is quite the notable event in modern times and the modern history of the holiday as distinct from other holidays. 4.255.53.2 ( talk) 02:29, 19 December 2008 (UTC)
This article is a really strange jumble of ancient germanic yule-rites and modern scandinavian Christmas. For example, the infobox says it's a pagan holiday and illustrates it with a modern christmas tree, the earliest record of which is from the 16th century! This article needs to be cleaned up so that it's clear what of it refers to the pagan festivity, and what refer to the Christian holiday that happens to share it's name in a few languages. Andejons ( talk) 11:02, 27 December 2008 (UTC)
This might be of interest to someone working on this article.
*jexwlan sb.n.: ON pl. jól 'feast of Yule (later — Christmas)', OE ʒeóhhol, ʒeól id. Of unknown origin. Grimm DM II 664 (to *xweʒw(u)lan ~ *xwexwlan); Bugge ANF IV 135 (to Lat iocus 'game' and *jexanan); Grienberger SBAW Wien CXLII/8 137 (to Lith jenkù, jèkti 'to become blind'); Meringer WuS V 184 (to Av yācñā 'to ask'); Loewnethal PBB XLV 265 (compound with elements related to Skt īṣā 'pole, shaft of a carriage' and IE *kͧel- 'wheel') [...]
That's from:
It goes on, too. If anyone would like to add some of this, or if you'd like to see some other entries (e.g. *xwexwlan) or the rest of this one, drop me a note. -- Aryaman (talk) 22:53, 11 December 2009 (UTC)
I decided to be WP:BOLD and make adjustments accordingly. Seeing as it really boils down to a bunch of speculation, I simply noted that various etymologies have been proposed for the term. Though I doubt the article would benefit from it at this point, if someone would like to dig deeper into the various works listed in Orel's entry, I'd be willing to help. -- Aryaman (talk) 23:23, 12 December 2009 (UTC)
I feel the article ought to mention that according to http://www.etymonline.com 'jul' is probably the origin for Franch 'joli', and through Franch also English 'jolly'. -- Sparviere ( talk) 15:39, 18 December 2009 (UTC)
I just read this article to find out about the Yule, and was quite suprised to see the mention of to the book Harry Potter at the end. I question whether this is relevant or notable. There would surely be many other works that reference Yule, along with countless songs and other traditions that deserve more note than a minor detail from a contemporary children's book. 86.156.245.248 ( talk) 13:20, 26 December 2009 (UTC)
I added "then Christian" to the part that says "cultural, Pagan" because chances are Yule wouldn't even be known in contemporary times if it weren't for preservation of records of Yuletide traditions by Christian monks and more importantly its deep association with Christmas in later times. The Neopagans wouldn't even know what to celebrate if it hadn't been for Christian monks and the blending of Yuletide into Christmas and yet the two and a half billion Xtians in the world can't even get a sentence? Not even after the glowing paragaphs about the inspiring worship of 95 Wiccans and 82 Neopagans all over the world (read Greenwich Village and West Hollywood) who celebrate the purely neopagan celebration of Yule? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.109.159.228 ( talk) 04:45, 3 January 2010 (UTC)
I certainly hope we can put a reference to Saturnalia back in. The statement was well-sourced. IMO, this is the obvious explanation for the origin of this holiday. Saturnalia was banned with the coming of Christianity, but celebration transferred to various Christian winter feast days, including Advent (in Italy) and Epiphany (in England). Yule was adopted as Scandinavia was Christianizing, so it must have been derived from some Christian holiday. The Vikings had a lot of contract with England, so Epiphany would be logical. The fact that scholars cite this theory is reason enough to put it in the article, whether you think it is in "left field" or not. As for the theory that Yule was originally a solstice or mid-winter festival, I suppose that has to be included in the article as well. But I must say that I find this theory much less plausible. The pre-Christian Scandinavian calendar was apparently lunar, so using it to determine the solstice date would have been complex. In any case, Mid-Winter and Yule have always been separate Germanic holidays. Kauffner ( talk) 19:06, 5 December 2011 (UTC)
The article says:
In chapter 55 of the Prose Edda book Skáldskaparmál, different names for the gods are given. One of the names provided is "Yule-beings." A work by the skald Eyvindr skáldaspillir that uses the term is then quoted, which reads:
- Again we have produced Yule-being's feast [mead of poetry], our rulers' eulogy, like a bridge of masonry.
Citing "Faulkes (1995:133)". I'm unable to find this source.
I can't find anything to back this up in Skáldskaparmál:
gumol ( talk) 03:49, 11 December 2011 (UTC)
Simek says, "The temporal coincidence [of Yule] with the mid-winter festival is rather problematic." (p. 379). The solstice was called mid-winter and celebrated on Dec. 25. We know Yule was moved to Dec. 25 with Christianization. We may therefore conclude that it was held on some other date earlier. Kauffner ( talk) 01:11, 24 December 2011 (UTC)
There have been mentions about related holidays in Finland and Estonia for years. How did they got removed ? Obviously some Nazi decided that non-Germanic peoples cannot be mentioned in an article about a Germanic holiday, which is absurd. Finnish Joulu even redirects to this page and there is no doubt whatsover that it is the same holiday as Yule Warbola ( talk) 06:38, 24 December 2011 (UTC)
I agree Pennick & Jones are fringe, I should have researched them more, though I recognised Nigel Pennick but I clearly didn't. I'm still curious about the idea of a two month 'Yule Tide', 2 30 day months, which was popular a century ago. Dougweller ( talk) 19:51, 25 December 2011 (UTC)
"December 25" is a date. It is a date that can be supported by numerous references. [8] [9] A favorite theory regarding the origin of the holiday is...not a date. [10] Kauffner ( talk) 03:34, 12 June 2012 (UTC)
It is completely unclear what the article means by "originally". If you are going to discuss things, at least establish roughly what century you are talking about. Not surprisingly with such a difficult topic, the article makes a complete hodge-podge of things.
this is exactly the sort of half-informed semi-accuracy you would expect to be written by people who compile the article by spending half an hour on google. Wikipedia can do better than that.
Fwiiw, what we do know is that Yule was moved to coincide with Christmas in Norway by Hakon the Good (10th century), and that before that (in the late 9th to early 10th century), Scandinavian jol (not "yule" in general) was held at "Midwinter Night". Saga Hákonar góða 15:
But in Scandinavia, jol was only introduced in the 9th century in the first place, taken from whatever geol was among the Christian Anglo-Saxons. Has it occurred to anyone that jol is not an "indigenous" Old Norse word? It would have to be ol, not jol. It is jol because it is a loanword from Old English. What or when geohol was among the Anglo-Saxons before the 7th century is literally anyone's guess, and it is completely futile to go on about "original Yule" without establishing this sort of chronological context.
If you want to talk about the "original Norse yule", the article is correct, but the "origin" in question dates to the 9th century. If you want to discuss the "original yule", you are well off the mark. In the opinion of David Landau (2010), which I do not necessarily agree with, the origin of the term is biblical yobel. In this recent scholarly opinion, "original yule" is indeed Christmas, more precisely Christmas in ancient Germanic (Gothic) Christianity. The term would then have survived into the (re-)Christianisation of the continental Germanic sphere, much like other terms such as God itself, possibly heathen, and perhaps heliand, all "ancient Germanic Christian" terms. -- dab (𒁳) 10:09, 31 December 2012 (UTC)
@ Greenshootuk: I reverted your recent removal, as your edit summary appears to have claims at odds with the Pope_Julius_I article. Do you think that article in error? — xaosflux Talk 05:07, 3 December 2014 (UTC)
Turkish word "yıl" (IPA: /jəl/) means "year" and it was first recorded in 8th century Orkhon inscriptions. [1] The inscription reads "men tokuz yigirmi yıl şad olurtım" (I ruled for 29 years as the prince). The word "yıl" has similar forms in other Turkic languages and Mongolian (cıl). I wonder if there is an etymological relationship between the words "yıl" and "yule".-- Abuk SABUK ( talk) 18:18, 25 December 2014 (UTC)
I haven't read about a proposed Common Germanic word like *jeχʷla-
But if this is the true, it should be mentioned that modern Finnish juhla is pronounced the same way (except for the first vowel). Finnish has a lot of Germanic loan words.
juhla means "feast, celebration" which is mentioned further down in the section as possible meaning.
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What's more correct? Old Norse, Icelandic, and Faroese jól; Danish, Swedish, and Norwegian jul, jol and ýlir. or Old Norse, Icelandic, Faroese and New Norse jól; Danish, Swedish, and Norwegian jul and ýlir.
I'm wondering because in New Norse it's written "jol" but in Old Norse, Icelandic and Faroese it's written "jól". I think it should be with Old Norse, Icelandic and Faroese because both "jól" and "jol" is written with an o. The only differnce is the apostrophe.
Is it possible to change the list to this?: Old Norse, Icelandic, Faroese and New Norse jól and jol; Danish, Swedish, and Norwegian jul and ýlir. -- EilivUH ( talk) 17:32, 11 March 2017 (UTC)
in my family, we celebrate Yule from December 11th and until January 6th — Preceding unsigned comment added by 118.171.218.9 ( talk) 15:53, 14 December 2021 (UTC)
An issue I think that remains on the page is we need to better explain the blurred line between Christmas and Yule in Northern Europe and the continuity between heathen and Christian practice. Yule isn't exclusively a heathen celebration now, being also a word commonly used in parts of the world for the Christian celebration. I'll have a think about how best to present this but I'm keen to hear the thoughts of others too :) Ingwina ( talk) 15:02, 26 March 2023 (UTC)
The lead section states "Yule was incorporated into Christmas during the Christianisation of the Germanic peoples". This claim is debated, see this article. Therefore I added the "Citation needed" tag. Unfortunately this was reverted by @ Bloodofox with the message "The word "Yule" is used in contemporary English language discussions of Christmas, which is alone is enough for this claim, as discussed in the body". I think he refers to the section "Significance and connection to other events" (first paragraph). Here however is only stated that some Christmas traditions "possibly have connections to pre-Christian Yule customs". These 'possible connections' do not support the 'incorporation during Christianisation' claim in the lead section in my opinion. The claim should be removed completely. Do you agree? Johan van der Slikke ( talk) 22:13, 18 December 2023 (UTC)
Hello, The date today, is 7 Jan 2024. My name is Sharon. I am a 70 year old Pagan. Not a Neo-pagan, or any other such metamorphosis. I am a Fornnordisk Hedniskhet. It is a Scandinavian term, which means Old Norse Pagan. And, I am here to tell you that this wiki-page is an insult to Pagans around the world, and an insult to the true meaning and heart of the Yule celebration.
Throughout my lifetime, I have watched as christians have repeatedly attempted to incorporate our Pagan celebrations into their own beliefs. They can NOT be incorporated, as christians would mislead you to believe. Our Pagan Festivals, predate christianity by several thousand years, and have nothing to do with christianity, at all. They never have, and never will. If any person tells you otherwise, then they are either christian, or it was related to them by some other means of christianity. No self-respecting Pagan would ever say/ do such a disgraceful thing.
Yule predates christianity by thousands of years. And, contrary to what christianity would have you believe, it did NOT originate in Germany, or any Germanic country. Yule originate in Scandinavia in several thousand BCE. Yule is NOT a celebration of christmas, or any other christian holiday. "Yule" is, and always has been, the celebration of the "Winter Solstice". That, will never change. And it is still celebrated today throughout the Scandinavian countries. It cannot be incorporated (stolen) by any non-pagan entity.
This page is wholly incorrect, as Wiki should know from all the many objection of it's contents. It should either be replaced with factual knowledge of the origins and meanings of Yule, or it should be deleted. Randallratzancestry ( talk) 00:12, 7 January 2024 (UTC)
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If you're going to speculate in the etymology of a Scandinavian word it's pretty stupid to base that speculation on how the word is used in English related languages. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.213.91.104 ( talk) 16:08, 30 December 2007 (UTC)
Neopagan Yule: Isn't it backwards on the page? The page states that Oak dies and Yule and Holly ascends at Yule. I believe this is reversed (at least based on Farrar material). Holly is Waning year, which means from Midsummer to Yule, and Oak is Waxing - from Yule to Midsummer - so Yule is actually where Oak ascends and Holly dies. Double check me on this before changing please.
71.252.181.249 ( talk) 05:51, 20 December 2007 (UTC)₵It is indeed backwards, at least according to Farrar. I have just consulted The Witch's God which states on page 35 that the Oak King rules from Midwinter to Midsummer, whilst the Holly King rules from Midsummer to Midwinter.
Below I have pasted a section I came across in the Project Gutenberg edition of HEIMSKRINGLA on early celebrations of Yule. I put it here because of the controversy over "primary sources" and because I am not a Norse expert, but I do think it has some interesting fact which could be in part or in whole posted on the primary page.-- trimalchio
Describe the new page here.Yule in Ancient Norway
from HEIMSKRINGLA
King Hakon was a good Christian when he came to Norway; but as the whole country was heathen, with much heathenish sacrifice, and as many great people, as well as the favour of the common people, were to be conciliated, he resolved to practice his Christianity in private. But he kept Sundays, and the Friday fasts, and some token of the greatest holy-days. He made a law that the festival of Yule should begin at the same time as Christian people held it, and that every man, under penalty, should brew a meal of malt into ale, and therewith keep the Yule holy as long as it lasted. Before him, the beginning of Yule, or the slaughter night, was the night of mid-winter (Dec. 14), and Yule was kept for three days thereafter. It was his intent, as soon as he had set himself fast in the land, and had subjected the whole to his power, to introduce Christianity. He went to work first by enticing to Christianity the men who were dearest to him; and many, out of friendship to him, allowed themselves to be baptized, and some laid aside sacrifices. He dwelt long in the Throndhjem district, for the strength of the country lay there; and when he thought that, by the support of some powerful people there, he could set up Christianity he sent a message to England for a bishop and other teachers; and when they arrived in Norway, Hakon made it known that he would proclaim Christianity over all the land. The people of More and Raumsdal referred the matter to the people of Throndhjem. King Hakon then had several churches consecrated, and put priests into them; and when he came to Throndhjem he summoned the bondes to a Thing, and invited them to accept Christianity. They gave an answer to the effect that they would defer the matter until the Frosta-thing, at which there would be men from every district of the Throndhjem country, and then they would give their determination upon this difficult matter.
Sigurd, earl of Hlader, was one of the greatest men for sacrifices, and so had Hakon his father been; and Sigurd always presided on account of the king at all the festivals of sacrifice in the Throndhjem country. It was an old custom, that when there was to be sacrifice all the bondes should come to the spot where the temple stood and bring with them all that they required while the festival of the sacrifice lasted. To this festival all the men brought ale with them; and all kinds of cattle, as well as horses, were slaughtered, and all the blood that came from them was called “hlaut”, and the vessels in which it was collected were called hlaut-vessels. Hlaut-staves were made, like sprinkling brushes, with which the whole of the altars and the temple walls, both outside and inside, were sprinkled over, and also the people were sprinkled with the blood; but the flesh was boiled into savoury meat for those present. The fire was in the middle of the floor of the temple, and over it hung the kettles, and the full goblets were handed across the fire; and he who made the feast, and was a chief, blessed the full goblets, and all the meat of the sacrifice. And first Odin’s goblet was emptied for victory and power to his king; thereafter, Niord’s and Freyja’s goblets for peace and a good season. Then it was the custom of many to empty the brage-goblet (1); and then the guests emptied a goblet to the memory of departed friends, called the remembrance goblet. Sigurd the earl was an open-handed man, who did what was very much celebrated; namely, he made a great sacrifice festival at Hlader of which he paid all the expenses. Kormak Ogmundson sings of it in his ballad of Sigurd: —
“Of cup or platter need has none
The guest who seeks the generous one, —
Sigurd the Generous, who can trace
His lineage from the giant race;
For Sigurd’s hand is bounteous, free, —
The guardian of the temples he.
He loves the gods, his liberal hand
Scatters his sword’s gains o’er the land-”
ENDNOTES:
(1) The brage-goblet, over which vows were made. — L.
The writer of this article states: "Yule was the winter solstice celebration of the Germanic pagans. In Germanic Neopaganism it is one of the eight solar holidays, or sabbats, where Yule is celebrated on the winter solstice: in the northern hemisphere, circa December 21, and in the southern hemisphere, circa June 21." I would like to point out that our Heathen ancestors did not have 'sabbats.' The sabbat is an invention of modern Wicca, thus associated with late medieval ritual and modern 'paganism,' as opposed to Heathenism.
In this article the writer suggests that the Old English word "géol" is related to geol, the word for yellow. I have read that the word "géol" means "wheel" and referes to the beginning of the wheel of the year.
Nan Hawthorne Dec. 8 noog —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Merriehearted ( talk • contribs) 00:10, 9 December 2006 (UTC).
In rural Ireland, a tradition "lost in the mists of Antiquity" is that of the "wren boys." On December 26, obviously "christianized" as Saint Stephen's Day, young men and boys would capture a wren, and then go from house to house singing various traditional songs. The most popular is that beginning:
The occupants of the houses visited would offer food and sometimes drink and might even join in the general hilarity, some of the younger members going onward with the "wren boys."
This might tie in with the pre-Christian role of the wren as part of Yuletide celebrations in Northern European cultures.-- PeadarMaguidhir 07:23, 22 December 2006 (UTC)
I disagree with the description of Yule as "celebration of the Scandinavian Norse mythology and Germanic pagans. In Germanic Neopaganism" neopaganism is not limited to Scandinavian & Germanic Understanding that Yule Etymology, and its good description of having its roots in "the Scandinavian Norse mythology and Germanic pagans". But this statement is saying Yule is only for Germanic Neopaganism. Its being specific in a way that is excluding of other pagan peoples who also celebrate Yule-time. Recommend making it more general, acknowledge the source, and acknowledge its spread beyond the Norse/Germanic boundaries. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 167.1.120.20 ( talk) 16:11, 22 December 2006 (UTC).
I completely disagree - The Norse/Noreg people are Not Germans! Odin in Old Norse Odhinn, and in German he was called Old High German Wodan or Woutan. Norway is the birthplace of the Yule log. The ancient Norse used the Yule log in their celebration of the return of the sun at winter solstice. "Yule" came from the Norse word hweol, meaning wheel. The Norse believed that the sun was a great wheel of fire that rolled towards and then away from the earth. Ever wonder why the family fireplace is such a central part of the typical Christmas scene? This tradition dates back to the Norse Yule log. It is probably also responsible for the popularity of log-shaped cheese, cakes, and desserts during the holidays. Please change it back to: "celebration of the Scandinavian Norse mythology and Germanic pagans. In Germanic Neopaganism" — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.142.121.55 ( talk) 00:19, 15 December 2013 (UTC)
Check out the Persian Yalda ceremony. Persians celebrate Yalda as longest night of the year on December 21th. It is an ancient ceremony with family gathering, eating food, singing and staying awake until next morning. Yalda relates to Persian Mithraism which goes back to second millennium BC. I guess there is an Indo-European link right there. Even the names have some similarity. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2602:306:37DF:9A60:90B5:4D71:FA7C:1339 ( talk) 00:09, 4 November 2012 (UTC)
"Scandinavian humanist societies" celebrating yuletide are mentioned in the infobox and in the last section. I never heard of such celebrations, other than among a few eccentrics. It is true that most families celebrate "jul", whether they are Christian or un-religious. (Even some muslim families have started celebrating "jul", i.e. to mimic the celebrations of the majority population - food, presents etc. - of course avoiding specific Christian references, and probably avoiding pork too.) But what "humanist societies" are celebrating yuletide? Is it in one of the references? - PS. I'm a Dane.-- Niels Ø (noe) 20:15, 22 December 2006 (UTC)
It looks like we could conclude that humanists do celebrate Yule - individually. -- Profero 18:06, 27 December 2006 (UTC)
The reason I removed
this link to the amateur argument is that its conclusion is based on the assumption that the word "Jol" cannot be related to "Wheel" because "Jol" existed long before the introduction of the wheel to Europe. This conclusion overlooks the fact that a wheel, or any circular object or concept, does not necessarily have to be a practical wheel in that particular sense, and therefore not a good reason to exclude the possibility that people in the ancient tradition of "Yol" couldn't have used the word for a cyclic event. But, on the other hand, this does not disprove (the) other etymological possibilities.
I have also added the {{disputed}} tag and rephrased a few sentences as a consequence.
I suggest there is even a possibility that the bright yellow sun-disc (wheel), could be the origin of all the subsequent different branches: Géol, Jolly, Gold, Guld, Gul, Yéol, Yellow, Yule, Jul, Hjul, Helios!
--
Profero 01:12, 23 December 2006 (UTC)
Did you check OED? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.17.194.130 ( talk) 14:19, 5 January 2007 (UTC)
in the old
manx language, the festival of Geul translates as the festival of
mistletoe. on top of that geul is root to geuley which in manx means shackle, link or chain ring. mistletoe being a parasite, shackles itself to various trees. in pagan tree worship, mistletoe is also considered the link between the trees that rule different times of year. has any one found anything on the manx etymology? it may be the only surviving language to still have a literal meaning for the word.
Some thing 21:50, 6 May 2007 (UTC)
Well, Svenska Akademiens ordbok outright dismisses the connection with "hjul" [3]. The current source in this article is from 1909, so unless someone has something more modern, the section should be rewritten.
Andejons ( talk) 17:57, 26 December 2008 (UTC)
This midwinter I was asked by a friend what my "Jule brag" would be... Old Norse form of a New Year's resolution... Made before the gods... A little more umph than a simple resolution. I can't find anything about this reputed custom on the internet. Might fellow wikipedians help me out? Thanks... Emyth 13:26, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
Is there any source for the date of Yule as Dec. 24 to Jan. 6? This is fourteen days and Yule is usually given as twelve days. The box gives Yule as the Dec. 21 or Dec. 22. This is appearently based on the assumption that Yule is the day of the winter solstice. But what is the basis for claiming this? The article should not be arguing with itself and is therefore in need of a rewrite. The traditional date of Yule was determined by a lunar calendar, so in general none of days of Yule would correspond to the date of the solstice. It is likely that the first day of Yule was the day that the crescent of first new moon of the year became visible. Bede gives the date of Yule as Dec. 25. This is persumably the date Yule was assigned when it was transferred to the Julian calendar, perhaps in order to Christianize the festival. [4] Kauffner 06:46, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
i recant, after reading "pagen history of europe". despite the appropriated traditions, pre-christianianization solstice celebrations didnt seem to be called jul/yule. this however; doesn't negate the currently existing application by many groups, of yule directly to the solstice. Some thing 18:44, 24 April 2007 (UTC)
I would definitely support this from personal experience. It seems like looking for a citation that states that hamsters are a common pet. Glennh70 14:38, 10 April 2007 (UTC)
user:209.214.104.112 has deleted the Norway section several times in protest of the section's bad writing and inaccuracies. All information correlates with the Jul (Norway) article. I doubt this information was made up, but it could be out of date or even misplaced. Citations would be appreciated. The article currently only cites the Norwegian ministries cite. Can any one lend to this issue? 209.214.104.112 13:53, 4 September 2007 (UTC)
The introductory paragrpaph made claim that Christmas was superimposed ideologies over Yule practices. While many neo-pagans make such speculation, Christains would disagree with such notion. This sentence was pure speculation. 69.246.224.100 ( talk) 22:32, 28 December 2007 (UTC)
--The second paragraph: "In pre-Christain times" is too vague... Which centuries?, What Source for Verifiability? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.246.224.100 ( talk) 22:37, 28 December 2007 (UTC)
--The following paragraph needs reworked: In pre-Christian times,[vague] Germanic tribes celebrated Yule from late December to early January on a date determined by a lunar calendar.[1] ((According to...?) When Christianity was just beginning, Christmas was set on the dates of Yule. ((The theory s/he holds is that...)during Christianization, Yule was suppressed by the Christian Church. ((Certain [historians], (authors) (anthropologists) such as, ?, ?, and ? believe that)) many of the Yule traditions were eventually incorporated into Christmas celebrations.[2] (Coloquially) the terms "Yule" and "Christmas" are often used interchangeably[3], ((especially in Christmas carols--delete because context is irrelevent.)) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.246.224.100 ( talk) 18:00, 29 December 2007 (UTC)
Pretty much any reference book you consult will equate Yule with Christmas, thus implying a date of December 25. It was obviously celebrated on a different date in pre-Christian times, but there is no way of knowing what that date was. The claims made to the effect that was celebrated on December 24, June 21, or whatever are unsourced and bogus. Kauffner ( talk) 03:27, 15 November 2008 (UTC)
The impression from intro and "A pagan history of europe" that yule was placed on the 25th but before this yule had only been celebrated by a lunar calendar. However now i read in the King Hakon "hemskringla" above that "Before him, the beginning of Yule, or the slaughter night, was the night of mid-winter (Dec. 14), and Yule was kept for three days thereafter." was there a solar calendar in use in norway before the julian? because otherwise this source doesnt make since. is this source simply using the word yule to describe midvinterblot... 99.140.188.137 ( talk) 17:56, 10 December 2008 (UTC)
I came here looking for what Yule means in the lunar calendar or germanic calendar, as in moon after-yule, or yule-moon since it seems to be the starting place for the lunar calendar. What is the system that keeps the lunar calendars syncronized with the solar calendars? Was yule the first of the moon that included the winter solstice or ( Midvinterblot_(disambiguation)), or the first moon that fell after the solstice, or is the beginning of Yule identical to winter solstice as implied on this article's "Also called" sidebar? Drf5n ( talk) 22:28, 23 February 2009 (UTC)
The quote regarding the attempted suppression of Yule celebration among pagan artisans who swore mutual aid and protection to each other has a familiar ring to anyone who is a Freemason. More books have been written trying to establish a coherent theory of the origin of Freemasonry than one can shake a stick at. The conventional theory is that Freemasonry arose from Medieval Guilds, of which the quote suggests these "confraternities" were the precursor. Can you tell me more about the original source for that quote? Guy of Auvergne ( talk) 19:30, 21 November 2008 (UTC)
Why was the quote and reference removed with no explanation and no answer to my initial question? Guy of Auvergne ( talk) 19:27, 14 December 2008 (UTC)
Why is there no mention in the article about the last day of Yule? Or is it only an Icelandic tradition to have gatherings and bonfires on the 6th of January? Please, any Scandinavians here that can comment. mvh. Anna -- 83.183.0.117 ( talk) 13:09, 30 November 2008 (UTC)
The Iranian world celebrates a winter feast called "yalda", which takes place at the time of winter solstice, (approx. Christmas) and is the traditional mid-winter celebration. The roots of this feast goes back to Mithraist (i.e. paganist) times, when the sun-god Mithra's birthday was thought to be on the day when the days would start to increase in length i.e. when the sun - Mithra's home - would start to increase.
Yalda has definitely at least Iranian and possibly even Indo-European origins, and I'd suggest the same thing for Yule; it was introduced to Europe during the time of Roman rule, when Roman soldiers imported what we call "the Mithra cult" to Europe. I'd recommend double ckecking that and adding that info. Cheers!
Charles
Besides here, one can find many instances of how the Nazis resurrected the Germanic holiday Julfest (the word redirects here to the Yule page, it is the German word for Yule) to replace Christmas. It was spearheaded within the SS by Heinrich Himmler, gifts were no longer to be given (this was replaced to on a summer holiday) and different pagan perceived traditions replaced them like large bonfires and the use of the Julleuchter. This should be mentioned in the modern traditions part of the article. That the Third Reich re-used the holiday is quite the notable event in modern times and the modern history of the holiday as distinct from other holidays. 4.255.53.2 ( talk) 02:29, 19 December 2008 (UTC)
This article is a really strange jumble of ancient germanic yule-rites and modern scandinavian Christmas. For example, the infobox says it's a pagan holiday and illustrates it with a modern christmas tree, the earliest record of which is from the 16th century! This article needs to be cleaned up so that it's clear what of it refers to the pagan festivity, and what refer to the Christian holiday that happens to share it's name in a few languages. Andejons ( talk) 11:02, 27 December 2008 (UTC)
This might be of interest to someone working on this article.
*jexwlan sb.n.: ON pl. jól 'feast of Yule (later — Christmas)', OE ʒeóhhol, ʒeól id. Of unknown origin. Grimm DM II 664 (to *xweʒw(u)lan ~ *xwexwlan); Bugge ANF IV 135 (to Lat iocus 'game' and *jexanan); Grienberger SBAW Wien CXLII/8 137 (to Lith jenkù, jèkti 'to become blind'); Meringer WuS V 184 (to Av yācñā 'to ask'); Loewnethal PBB XLV 265 (compound with elements related to Skt īṣā 'pole, shaft of a carriage' and IE *kͧel- 'wheel') [...]
That's from:
It goes on, too. If anyone would like to add some of this, or if you'd like to see some other entries (e.g. *xwexwlan) or the rest of this one, drop me a note. -- Aryaman (talk) 22:53, 11 December 2009 (UTC)
I decided to be WP:BOLD and make adjustments accordingly. Seeing as it really boils down to a bunch of speculation, I simply noted that various etymologies have been proposed for the term. Though I doubt the article would benefit from it at this point, if someone would like to dig deeper into the various works listed in Orel's entry, I'd be willing to help. -- Aryaman (talk) 23:23, 12 December 2009 (UTC)
I feel the article ought to mention that according to http://www.etymonline.com 'jul' is probably the origin for Franch 'joli', and through Franch also English 'jolly'. -- Sparviere ( talk) 15:39, 18 December 2009 (UTC)
I just read this article to find out about the Yule, and was quite suprised to see the mention of to the book Harry Potter at the end. I question whether this is relevant or notable. There would surely be many other works that reference Yule, along with countless songs and other traditions that deserve more note than a minor detail from a contemporary children's book. 86.156.245.248 ( talk) 13:20, 26 December 2009 (UTC)
I added "then Christian" to the part that says "cultural, Pagan" because chances are Yule wouldn't even be known in contemporary times if it weren't for preservation of records of Yuletide traditions by Christian monks and more importantly its deep association with Christmas in later times. The Neopagans wouldn't even know what to celebrate if it hadn't been for Christian monks and the blending of Yuletide into Christmas and yet the two and a half billion Xtians in the world can't even get a sentence? Not even after the glowing paragaphs about the inspiring worship of 95 Wiccans and 82 Neopagans all over the world (read Greenwich Village and West Hollywood) who celebrate the purely neopagan celebration of Yule? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.109.159.228 ( talk) 04:45, 3 January 2010 (UTC)
I certainly hope we can put a reference to Saturnalia back in. The statement was well-sourced. IMO, this is the obvious explanation for the origin of this holiday. Saturnalia was banned with the coming of Christianity, but celebration transferred to various Christian winter feast days, including Advent (in Italy) and Epiphany (in England). Yule was adopted as Scandinavia was Christianizing, so it must have been derived from some Christian holiday. The Vikings had a lot of contract with England, so Epiphany would be logical. The fact that scholars cite this theory is reason enough to put it in the article, whether you think it is in "left field" or not. As for the theory that Yule was originally a solstice or mid-winter festival, I suppose that has to be included in the article as well. But I must say that I find this theory much less plausible. The pre-Christian Scandinavian calendar was apparently lunar, so using it to determine the solstice date would have been complex. In any case, Mid-Winter and Yule have always been separate Germanic holidays. Kauffner ( talk) 19:06, 5 December 2011 (UTC)
The article says:
In chapter 55 of the Prose Edda book Skáldskaparmál, different names for the gods are given. One of the names provided is "Yule-beings." A work by the skald Eyvindr skáldaspillir that uses the term is then quoted, which reads:
- Again we have produced Yule-being's feast [mead of poetry], our rulers' eulogy, like a bridge of masonry.
Citing "Faulkes (1995:133)". I'm unable to find this source.
I can't find anything to back this up in Skáldskaparmál:
gumol ( talk) 03:49, 11 December 2011 (UTC)
Simek says, "The temporal coincidence [of Yule] with the mid-winter festival is rather problematic." (p. 379). The solstice was called mid-winter and celebrated on Dec. 25. We know Yule was moved to Dec. 25 with Christianization. We may therefore conclude that it was held on some other date earlier. Kauffner ( talk) 01:11, 24 December 2011 (UTC)
There have been mentions about related holidays in Finland and Estonia for years. How did they got removed ? Obviously some Nazi decided that non-Germanic peoples cannot be mentioned in an article about a Germanic holiday, which is absurd. Finnish Joulu even redirects to this page and there is no doubt whatsover that it is the same holiday as Yule Warbola ( talk) 06:38, 24 December 2011 (UTC)
I agree Pennick & Jones are fringe, I should have researched them more, though I recognised Nigel Pennick but I clearly didn't. I'm still curious about the idea of a two month 'Yule Tide', 2 30 day months, which was popular a century ago. Dougweller ( talk) 19:51, 25 December 2011 (UTC)
"December 25" is a date. It is a date that can be supported by numerous references. [8] [9] A favorite theory regarding the origin of the holiday is...not a date. [10] Kauffner ( talk) 03:34, 12 June 2012 (UTC)
It is completely unclear what the article means by "originally". If you are going to discuss things, at least establish roughly what century you are talking about. Not surprisingly with such a difficult topic, the article makes a complete hodge-podge of things.
this is exactly the sort of half-informed semi-accuracy you would expect to be written by people who compile the article by spending half an hour on google. Wikipedia can do better than that.
Fwiiw, what we do know is that Yule was moved to coincide with Christmas in Norway by Hakon the Good (10th century), and that before that (in the late 9th to early 10th century), Scandinavian jol (not "yule" in general) was held at "Midwinter Night". Saga Hákonar góða 15:
But in Scandinavia, jol was only introduced in the 9th century in the first place, taken from whatever geol was among the Christian Anglo-Saxons. Has it occurred to anyone that jol is not an "indigenous" Old Norse word? It would have to be ol, not jol. It is jol because it is a loanword from Old English. What or when geohol was among the Anglo-Saxons before the 7th century is literally anyone's guess, and it is completely futile to go on about "original Yule" without establishing this sort of chronological context.
If you want to talk about the "original Norse yule", the article is correct, but the "origin" in question dates to the 9th century. If you want to discuss the "original yule", you are well off the mark. In the opinion of David Landau (2010), which I do not necessarily agree with, the origin of the term is biblical yobel. In this recent scholarly opinion, "original yule" is indeed Christmas, more precisely Christmas in ancient Germanic (Gothic) Christianity. The term would then have survived into the (re-)Christianisation of the continental Germanic sphere, much like other terms such as God itself, possibly heathen, and perhaps heliand, all "ancient Germanic Christian" terms. -- dab (𒁳) 10:09, 31 December 2012 (UTC)
@ Greenshootuk: I reverted your recent removal, as your edit summary appears to have claims at odds with the Pope_Julius_I article. Do you think that article in error? — xaosflux Talk 05:07, 3 December 2014 (UTC)
Turkish word "yıl" (IPA: /jəl/) means "year" and it was first recorded in 8th century Orkhon inscriptions. [1] The inscription reads "men tokuz yigirmi yıl şad olurtım" (I ruled for 29 years as the prince). The word "yıl" has similar forms in other Turkic languages and Mongolian (cıl). I wonder if there is an etymological relationship between the words "yıl" and "yule".-- Abuk SABUK ( talk) 18:18, 25 December 2014 (UTC)
I haven't read about a proposed Common Germanic word like *jeχʷla-
But if this is the true, it should be mentioned that modern Finnish juhla is pronounced the same way (except for the first vowel). Finnish has a lot of Germanic loan words.
juhla means "feast, celebration" which is mentioned further down in the section as possible meaning.
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What's more correct? Old Norse, Icelandic, and Faroese jól; Danish, Swedish, and Norwegian jul, jol and ýlir. or Old Norse, Icelandic, Faroese and New Norse jól; Danish, Swedish, and Norwegian jul and ýlir.
I'm wondering because in New Norse it's written "jol" but in Old Norse, Icelandic and Faroese it's written "jól". I think it should be with Old Norse, Icelandic and Faroese because both "jól" and "jol" is written with an o. The only differnce is the apostrophe.
Is it possible to change the list to this?: Old Norse, Icelandic, Faroese and New Norse jól and jol; Danish, Swedish, and Norwegian jul and ýlir. -- EilivUH ( talk) 17:32, 11 March 2017 (UTC)
in my family, we celebrate Yule from December 11th and until January 6th — Preceding unsigned comment added by 118.171.218.9 ( talk) 15:53, 14 December 2021 (UTC)
An issue I think that remains on the page is we need to better explain the blurred line between Christmas and Yule in Northern Europe and the continuity between heathen and Christian practice. Yule isn't exclusively a heathen celebration now, being also a word commonly used in parts of the world for the Christian celebration. I'll have a think about how best to present this but I'm keen to hear the thoughts of others too :) Ingwina ( talk) 15:02, 26 March 2023 (UTC)
The lead section states "Yule was incorporated into Christmas during the Christianisation of the Germanic peoples". This claim is debated, see this article. Therefore I added the "Citation needed" tag. Unfortunately this was reverted by @ Bloodofox with the message "The word "Yule" is used in contemporary English language discussions of Christmas, which is alone is enough for this claim, as discussed in the body". I think he refers to the section "Significance and connection to other events" (first paragraph). Here however is only stated that some Christmas traditions "possibly have connections to pre-Christian Yule customs". These 'possible connections' do not support the 'incorporation during Christianisation' claim in the lead section in my opinion. The claim should be removed completely. Do you agree? Johan van der Slikke ( talk) 22:13, 18 December 2023 (UTC)
Hello, The date today, is 7 Jan 2024. My name is Sharon. I am a 70 year old Pagan. Not a Neo-pagan, or any other such metamorphosis. I am a Fornnordisk Hedniskhet. It is a Scandinavian term, which means Old Norse Pagan. And, I am here to tell you that this wiki-page is an insult to Pagans around the world, and an insult to the true meaning and heart of the Yule celebration.
Throughout my lifetime, I have watched as christians have repeatedly attempted to incorporate our Pagan celebrations into their own beliefs. They can NOT be incorporated, as christians would mislead you to believe. Our Pagan Festivals, predate christianity by several thousand years, and have nothing to do with christianity, at all. They never have, and never will. If any person tells you otherwise, then they are either christian, or it was related to them by some other means of christianity. No self-respecting Pagan would ever say/ do such a disgraceful thing.
Yule predates christianity by thousands of years. And, contrary to what christianity would have you believe, it did NOT originate in Germany, or any Germanic country. Yule originate in Scandinavia in several thousand BCE. Yule is NOT a celebration of christmas, or any other christian holiday. "Yule" is, and always has been, the celebration of the "Winter Solstice". That, will never change. And it is still celebrated today throughout the Scandinavian countries. It cannot be incorporated (stolen) by any non-pagan entity.
This page is wholly incorrect, as Wiki should know from all the many objection of it's contents. It should either be replaced with factual knowledge of the origins and meanings of Yule, or it should be deleted. Randallratzancestry ( talk) 00:12, 7 January 2024 (UTC)