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Archive 1 |
Just reverted some edits that removed non-YD references. Editors should keep in mind that third party references are preferred, as self-published sources have limited use. Also claims made should have references. Autarch ( talk) 02:47, 13 December 2012 (UTC)
Just fixed a link - it was described as the official website, but was to a discussion on boards.ie. Autarch ( talk) 22:01, 13 December 2012 (UTC)
Looking at this page, it looks like krank.ie uses user-submitted content, making it more likely to fall under WP:SPS rather than WP:RS. Any thoughts? Autarch ( talk) 23:40, 13 December 2012 (UTC)
This source is totally biased against Youth Defence, I don't think it's a reliable source. 85.240.22.108 ( talk) 21:33, 27 December 2012 (UTC)
Anyone can look at their Facebook page that the claims that they use to "censorship" people who aren't pro-life is untrue. I myself already entered in several debates there with people who aren't pro-life. Its impossible to change people minds through censorship. The removal of "trolling" its not the same and its usual standard in Facebook. Take a look at their Facebook page: [1]. 85.240.22.108 ( talk) 21:33, 27 December 2012 (UTC)
What about RS who don`t tell lies? By Wikipedia standards Krank.ie isn`t a reliable source. The site founder says that: "Founder and admin at Krank.ie. A news and current events nerd who likes cats and fighting with politicians on the internet. I’m a mean ol’ man. QRG has called me a “maverick Irish blogger” but I’m mostly just being an opinionated jerk. You can find me mouthing off on the Twitter-machine @Nerin_". Is this for real? Blogs aren`t reliable sources. Where are the news from the Irish press. This article needs an expert. 81.193.189.44 ( talk) 15:15, 28 December 2012 (UTC)
The article needs to follow Wikipedia guidelines: "Explanation of the neutral point of view// Policy shortcut: WP:YESPOV Achieving what the Wikipedia community understands as neutrality means carefully and critically analyzing a variety of reliable sources and then attempting to convey to the reader the information contained in them fairly, proportionately, and as far as possible without bias. Wikipedia aims to describe disputes, but not engage in them. Editors, while naturally having their own points of view, should strive in good faith to provide complete information, and not to promote one particular point of view over another. As such, the neutral point of view does not mean exclusion of certain points of view, but including all notable and verifiable points of view. Observe the following principles to achieve the level of neutrality that is appropriate for an encyclopedia. Avoid stating opinions as facts. Usually, articles will contain information about the significant opinions that have been expressed about their subjects. However, these opinions should not be stated in Wikipedia's voice. Rather, they should be attributed in the text to particular sources, or where justified, described as widespread views, etc. For example, an article should not state that "genocide is an evil action", but it may state that "genocide has been described by John X as the epitome of human evil." Avoid stating seriously contested assertions as facts. If different reliable sources make conflicting assertions about a matter, treat these assertions as opinions rather than facts, and do not present them as direct statements. Avoid presenting uncontested factual assertions as mere opinion. Uncontested and uncontroversial factual assertions made by reliable sources should normally be directly stated in Wikipedia's voice. Unless a topic specifically deals with a disagreement over otherwise uncontested information, there is no need for specific attribution for the assertion, although it is helpful to add a reference link to the source in support of verifiability. Further, the passage should not be worded in any way that makes it appear to be contested. Prefer nonjudgmental language. A neutral point of view neither sympathizes with nor disparages its subject (or what reliable sources say about the subject), although this must sometimes be balanced against clarity. Present opinions and conflicting findings in a disinterested tone. Indicate the relative prominence of opposing views. Ensure that the reporting of different views on a subject adequately reflects the relative levels of support for those views, and that it does not give a false impression of parity, or give undue weight to a particular view. For example, to state that "According to Simon Wiesenthal, the Holocaust was a program of extermination of the Jewish people in Germany, but David Irving disputes this analysis" would be to give apparent parity between the supermajority view and a tiny minority view by assigning each to a single activist in the field." 81.193.189.44 ( talk) 15:18, 28 December 2012 (UTC)
Here is a reference that can be used for the entry: [2]. From the RTÉ News: "Thousands attend "vigil for life" at Leinster House, 6 December 2012". 81.193.189.44 ( talk) 15:33, 28 December 2012 (UTC)
The entry tried to show a bias from Desmond Connell, but he is 100% pro-life and to claim that "Archbishop Desmond Connell made veiled comments" is like meaningless. Does anyone can provide if he has any particular opposition to Youth Defence tactics and agenda? He has criticized harshly abortionism several times. 82.154.209.113 ( talk) 17:19, 24 January 2013 (UTC)
Even the Catholic church maintains a distance. Archbishop Desmond Connell made veiled comments about his dislike for the "American-style tactics" some Irish pro-lifers practise. "I'd like to meet the archbishop. I don't think he would have said those things if he knew us," maintains Barrett
Things NOT in the source:
Needs to be fixed. -- Errant ( chat!) 22:05, 15 April 2013 (UTC)
According to the CRO, "Youth Defence" and "Friends of Youth Defence" are registered business names, which means the organisation does not need to file annual accounts. It is affiliated with the group, Precious Life, which is registered with an address in Kanturk, County Cork.
The above content is not appropriate content; you'd need a source that explained "which means the organisation does not need to file annual accounts". The business directory is a primary resource which is not usable in this context. Same with the Precious life content - I saw nothing in the listing that notes the affiliation. Writing sentences with two pieces of information in; one of which is cited from a source, one of which is not, is disingenuous and against our policies. -- Errant ( chat!) 14:05, 18 April 2013 (UTC)
I moved this from references, because it doesn't meet the criteria for WP:RS. It's now in External links. I've also restored mention of complaints about YD protest outside Rósín Shortalls' home. Autarch ( talk) 21:04, 9 July 2013 (UTC)
RTÉ (maybe in a space saving effort) deletes articles regularly. Should we start using google cached copies of the articles? e.g. The article "Thousands rally over abortion law in Dublin, RTÉ News, 7 July 2012" 404s and maybe should be replaced with http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:9r5azPn4kBIJ:www.rte.ie/news/2013/0706/460921-dublin-rally-life/&client=opera&hl=en&gl=ie&strip=1 Avitus27 ( talk) 21:25, 29 September 2013 (UTC)
The section which Ebeluler has added "neo-nazi links" reads like political propaganda against this group and cherry picked to smear the group in a guilt by association. You could easily pick a broad range of say, Catholic religious or general conservative figures this group has spoken to. But, Ebeluler has chose these European groups, for what reason? Claíomh Solais ( talk) 01:31, 22 November 2016 (UTC)
@ Bastun: and other have objected to changing it to "Far right links". I claim that not all of the links are Nazi parties. Here is an example Forza Nuova. It is fascist but denies Nazism. Apollo The Logician ( talk) 11:19, 20 February 2017 (UTC) Apollo The Logician ( talk) 11:19, 20 February 2017 (UTC)
There are at least two citations for the founding date of 1986. It may well be the case that the organisation went on hiatus between '86 and '92, but there's nothing to indicate that there were/are two separate organisations called Youth Defence. Bastun Ėġáḍβáś₮ŭŃ! 21:30, 11 December 2017 (UTC)
The article doesn't detail much about what the organisation actually does, who its current and founding members actually were. It's just a series of attacks. I'm not a fan of theirs but this article is particularly bad. It needs a full revision so that the sources actually match the content they refer to, the article explains who YD are, and what they do, and accurately reflects their position, as well as those of its' critics Berrocca Addict ( talk) 22:35, 11 December 2017 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on Youth Defence. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
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![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 |
Just reverted some edits that removed non-YD references. Editors should keep in mind that third party references are preferred, as self-published sources have limited use. Also claims made should have references. Autarch ( talk) 02:47, 13 December 2012 (UTC)
Just fixed a link - it was described as the official website, but was to a discussion on boards.ie. Autarch ( talk) 22:01, 13 December 2012 (UTC)
Looking at this page, it looks like krank.ie uses user-submitted content, making it more likely to fall under WP:SPS rather than WP:RS. Any thoughts? Autarch ( talk) 23:40, 13 December 2012 (UTC)
This source is totally biased against Youth Defence, I don't think it's a reliable source. 85.240.22.108 ( talk) 21:33, 27 December 2012 (UTC)
Anyone can look at their Facebook page that the claims that they use to "censorship" people who aren't pro-life is untrue. I myself already entered in several debates there with people who aren't pro-life. Its impossible to change people minds through censorship. The removal of "trolling" its not the same and its usual standard in Facebook. Take a look at their Facebook page: [1]. 85.240.22.108 ( talk) 21:33, 27 December 2012 (UTC)
What about RS who don`t tell lies? By Wikipedia standards Krank.ie isn`t a reliable source. The site founder says that: "Founder and admin at Krank.ie. A news and current events nerd who likes cats and fighting with politicians on the internet. I’m a mean ol’ man. QRG has called me a “maverick Irish blogger” but I’m mostly just being an opinionated jerk. You can find me mouthing off on the Twitter-machine @Nerin_". Is this for real? Blogs aren`t reliable sources. Where are the news from the Irish press. This article needs an expert. 81.193.189.44 ( talk) 15:15, 28 December 2012 (UTC)
The article needs to follow Wikipedia guidelines: "Explanation of the neutral point of view// Policy shortcut: WP:YESPOV Achieving what the Wikipedia community understands as neutrality means carefully and critically analyzing a variety of reliable sources and then attempting to convey to the reader the information contained in them fairly, proportionately, and as far as possible without bias. Wikipedia aims to describe disputes, but not engage in them. Editors, while naturally having their own points of view, should strive in good faith to provide complete information, and not to promote one particular point of view over another. As such, the neutral point of view does not mean exclusion of certain points of view, but including all notable and verifiable points of view. Observe the following principles to achieve the level of neutrality that is appropriate for an encyclopedia. Avoid stating opinions as facts. Usually, articles will contain information about the significant opinions that have been expressed about their subjects. However, these opinions should not be stated in Wikipedia's voice. Rather, they should be attributed in the text to particular sources, or where justified, described as widespread views, etc. For example, an article should not state that "genocide is an evil action", but it may state that "genocide has been described by John X as the epitome of human evil." Avoid stating seriously contested assertions as facts. If different reliable sources make conflicting assertions about a matter, treat these assertions as opinions rather than facts, and do not present them as direct statements. Avoid presenting uncontested factual assertions as mere opinion. Uncontested and uncontroversial factual assertions made by reliable sources should normally be directly stated in Wikipedia's voice. Unless a topic specifically deals with a disagreement over otherwise uncontested information, there is no need for specific attribution for the assertion, although it is helpful to add a reference link to the source in support of verifiability. Further, the passage should not be worded in any way that makes it appear to be contested. Prefer nonjudgmental language. A neutral point of view neither sympathizes with nor disparages its subject (or what reliable sources say about the subject), although this must sometimes be balanced against clarity. Present opinions and conflicting findings in a disinterested tone. Indicate the relative prominence of opposing views. Ensure that the reporting of different views on a subject adequately reflects the relative levels of support for those views, and that it does not give a false impression of parity, or give undue weight to a particular view. For example, to state that "According to Simon Wiesenthal, the Holocaust was a program of extermination of the Jewish people in Germany, but David Irving disputes this analysis" would be to give apparent parity between the supermajority view and a tiny minority view by assigning each to a single activist in the field." 81.193.189.44 ( talk) 15:18, 28 December 2012 (UTC)
Here is a reference that can be used for the entry: [2]. From the RTÉ News: "Thousands attend "vigil for life" at Leinster House, 6 December 2012". 81.193.189.44 ( talk) 15:33, 28 December 2012 (UTC)
The entry tried to show a bias from Desmond Connell, but he is 100% pro-life and to claim that "Archbishop Desmond Connell made veiled comments" is like meaningless. Does anyone can provide if he has any particular opposition to Youth Defence tactics and agenda? He has criticized harshly abortionism several times. 82.154.209.113 ( talk) 17:19, 24 January 2013 (UTC)
Even the Catholic church maintains a distance. Archbishop Desmond Connell made veiled comments about his dislike for the "American-style tactics" some Irish pro-lifers practise. "I'd like to meet the archbishop. I don't think he would have said those things if he knew us," maintains Barrett
Things NOT in the source:
Needs to be fixed. -- Errant ( chat!) 22:05, 15 April 2013 (UTC)
According to the CRO, "Youth Defence" and "Friends of Youth Defence" are registered business names, which means the organisation does not need to file annual accounts. It is affiliated with the group, Precious Life, which is registered with an address in Kanturk, County Cork.
The above content is not appropriate content; you'd need a source that explained "which means the organisation does not need to file annual accounts". The business directory is a primary resource which is not usable in this context. Same with the Precious life content - I saw nothing in the listing that notes the affiliation. Writing sentences with two pieces of information in; one of which is cited from a source, one of which is not, is disingenuous and against our policies. -- Errant ( chat!) 14:05, 18 April 2013 (UTC)
I moved this from references, because it doesn't meet the criteria for WP:RS. It's now in External links. I've also restored mention of complaints about YD protest outside Rósín Shortalls' home. Autarch ( talk) 21:04, 9 July 2013 (UTC)
RTÉ (maybe in a space saving effort) deletes articles regularly. Should we start using google cached copies of the articles? e.g. The article "Thousands rally over abortion law in Dublin, RTÉ News, 7 July 2012" 404s and maybe should be replaced with http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:9r5azPn4kBIJ:www.rte.ie/news/2013/0706/460921-dublin-rally-life/&client=opera&hl=en&gl=ie&strip=1 Avitus27 ( talk) 21:25, 29 September 2013 (UTC)
The section which Ebeluler has added "neo-nazi links" reads like political propaganda against this group and cherry picked to smear the group in a guilt by association. You could easily pick a broad range of say, Catholic religious or general conservative figures this group has spoken to. But, Ebeluler has chose these European groups, for what reason? Claíomh Solais ( talk) 01:31, 22 November 2016 (UTC)
@ Bastun: and other have objected to changing it to "Far right links". I claim that not all of the links are Nazi parties. Here is an example Forza Nuova. It is fascist but denies Nazism. Apollo The Logician ( talk) 11:19, 20 February 2017 (UTC) Apollo The Logician ( talk) 11:19, 20 February 2017 (UTC)
There are at least two citations for the founding date of 1986. It may well be the case that the organisation went on hiatus between '86 and '92, but there's nothing to indicate that there were/are two separate organisations called Youth Defence. Bastun Ėġáḍβáś₮ŭŃ! 21:30, 11 December 2017 (UTC)
The article doesn't detail much about what the organisation actually does, who its current and founding members actually were. It's just a series of attacks. I'm not a fan of theirs but this article is particularly bad. It needs a full revision so that the sources actually match the content they refer to, the article explains who YD are, and what they do, and accurately reflects their position, as well as those of its' critics Berrocca Addict ( talk) 22:35, 11 December 2017 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on Youth Defence. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
An editor has reviewed this edit and fixed any errors that were found.
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 23:15, 21 January 2018 (UTC)