![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | Archive 2 |
i agree with bsnowball that rabbi weiss is a rabbi please have someone in authority to make a ruling and stop vandalizing rabbi weiss entry thanks Lurgis 07:57, 24 December 2006 (UTC)
On what basis do you disagree? I have yet to discover if Weiss serves as a Rav, maggid shiur, Rebbi or was even ordained as a Rabbi. I am not here to start a fight, only to ask on what basis you are making the above assertion. I would also ask, and I mean this in sincerity, if Weiss is a homosexual. There is a very strong rumor circulating the New york-New jersey area that he is even a cross-dresser. Is this true?
um, i'll leave
this here for now, took me a while to notice we'd gotten the wrong rabbi:
<ref>[http://www.nkusa.org/activities/Speeches/2006Iran-ACohen.cfm Orthodox Jewish Attitude to the 'Holocaust'] by Rabbi Aharon Cohen (Neturei Karta Internation Website) Accesed December 15, 2006</ref>
⇒
bsnowball
16:50, 14 December 2006 (UTC)
Even if I had the burden to prove that he is not a rabbi, it is something that is virtually impossible to prove. How does one go about proving that one isn't something. There are no sources as to what a person is not, there are only sources as to what a person IS.
Having said that, there is no legitimate (or even non-legitimate)source that he got Rabbinic ordination or serves in any capicity in a synagouge as a Rabbi.-- Yeshivish 05:45, 3 January 2007 (UTC)
By the way, we do have a source for these guys not being mainstream NK:
"“I think it’s a fatal error,” said Rabbi Norman Lamm, the former president of Yeshiva University and author of a monograph on the group. “They went so far out that any rational Neturei Karta member or anti-Zionist would be repulsed”"
[1]
I'm sure we could use that somehow, in the NK article also. --
Chussid 14:17, 29 December 2006 (UTC)
The problem is that's a quote from a Yehsivah University guy on his opwn speculation. I'm getting tired of having to be the person to defend people when others are piling on, but "self appointed," is not accurate. He is appointed by Rabbi Moshe Ber Beck, who, like it or not, is respected even among Aggudist poskim as a Talmuf Chocham. Is there anyway we can all calm down, post only sourced material from reliable sources, and remove ourselves from the article when we find the need to bring up cross dressing, homosexual, child molesting, bestiality rumors about people. If these rumors seem plausible to you in their entirety, you are probably blinded by bias.
Shia1
04:13, 7 February 2007 (UTC)
He is not a Rav. He is not a maggi shiur. He is not a rebbie in a Cheder. He does not have semicha.
HE IS NOT A RABBI!!!
Stop being dishonest. A "Mr." can have views, too. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 66.93.254.200 ( talk) 17:14, 29 December 2006 (UTC).
You are showing your emotionalism. There are a million news outlets that can be sited with his name Rabbi Weiss. SO that is what his name is here. Evidently you do not like him, but all the evidence is that he is a rabbi. Do you have reason to believe those news outlets are being misleading. If you do you should post it. 88.153.142.83 06:16, 28 January 2007 (UTC)
reverted yet another FrummerThanThou] copy & paste vandalism back to: "01:51, 31 December 2006 Yeshivish (Talk | contribs) (i believe its more factually correct)" Lurgis 00:20, 1 January 2007 (UTC)
ADL Letter to Fox News Channel, 28 july 2006 Lurgis 16:41, 1 January 2007 (UTC)
please note that in their letter to fox news that the anti-defamation league acknowledges that rabbi weiss is a rabbi. Lurgis 22:36, 2 January 2007 (UTC)
Provide a source for this. But even if this is true, who is the ADL to know that? Becaus Mr. Weiss said so? What is their criterion? Mr. Weiss himself said to a Rabbi (its on youtube) that a Rabbi who desecrates the Torah is like a dead dog on the street. He is completely against daas torah. Let the dead dog lie in the street. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.93.254.200 ( talk • contribs) 00:22, 4 January 2007
Again you show you emotionalism. Every news outlet and even his enemies admit he's a rabbi. What would satisfy you, him holding a smicha certificate with the Rabbonim who gave it to him presenting two forms of government ID in the photo as well? 82.81.19.174 09:19, 31 January 2007 (UTC)
I cannot understand how thoughtful factbased additions to this article are deleted without just cause. He is not a rabbi. That is a fact. And if he claims he is one, this ought to be added in the controversies section. Stop weaseling out of it. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 66.93.254.200 ( talk) 15:16, 2 January 2007 (UTC).
its amazing how some so called editors such as DavidCharlesII continue to insert wild unsubstantiated claims, vandalism and POV pushing into this entry yet have the unmitigated gall to accuse me (and others) of doing what they are doing. Lurgis 18:57, 2 January 2007 (UTC)
What is so wild? That he has no semicha? He doesn't. That he is not a Rosh Yeshiva? He is not a Rosh Yeshiva. That is he is not a Rav in a Shul. He is not a Rav in a Shul. I know this. Everyone in Monsey knows this. If you insist with these claims, at least PROVE them. The only other thing Rabbi David Charles keeps adding is the FACT that Eida charedis put him on cherem, too. How is THAT wild? ITS A FACT!!! 66.93.254.200 14:26, 3 January 2007 (UTC)
In regard to your personal attack: I think I have been reasonable with you, I don't know why you had to lower the level of argument here and call my actions "childish". I also have no idea what you are refering to with "links to edah ha charedis etc." I don't recall editing links of that nature, nor do I recall editing any links on this site.-- Yeshivish 20:46, 4 January 2007 (UTC)
i agree that there is NO CONSENSUS here. what is apparent to any reasonable minded jew or goy that comes here and views this entrys history and talk pages is that there is a contingent of pro-zionist agents masquerading as wikipedia editors bound and determined to make every entry they disagree with to reflect the zionist view. sadly wikipedia admins arent doing their job and enforcing wikipedia rules etc., thus giving credibility to judicial inc's wikipedia caveat. Lurgis 16:46, 4 January 2007 (UTC)
It's funny because to me it seems apparent that there is a contingent of anti-zionist agents masquerading as wikipedia editors bound and determined to make every entry they disagree with to reflect the anti-zionist view. So how about we call a truce, make the article NPV, and only put in facts with LEGIT sources.-- Yeshivish 20:46, 4 January 2007 (UTC)
Lurgis is way off. Mr. Weiss has lied about how many support him, and his qualifications as a Rabbi are, at best, dubious. You are an agent for Mr. Weiss or Mr. Weiss himself, as he has perhaps only five other followers in the world.—Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.93.254.200 ( talk • contribs) 04:04, 5 January 2007
please yeshivish, on the score of 'personalising' debate, you had already accused me of vandalism for removing unsourced material. if you are prepared to discuss this, then while the title rabbi is not there, surely the sentence "Although he purports to be a rabbi..." is uneccessary? (also per yr argument above, the claims in that sentence are impossible to verify.) otherwise there are 7 sources for 'rabbi weiss' (none of them tv shows, i have made no mention of any tv show) & any number more can be provided. & as i said, surely with all the controversy, why can you you not find a single reliable source disputing his claim? also please stop pretending there is consensus, & that something is nn because you disagree with it. ps re my claim about your last rv of my edit, have a look at what you reverted ⇒ bsnowball 14:55, 5 January 2007 (UTC)
Snowball,I find it ironic that you are sensitive to the "vandalism" accusation. In the edit history of this article you seem to throw around the "vandalism" accusation at every edit. Indeed, the only reason why I used "vandalism" was because you used the "vandalism" charge when an editor removed the unsourced "Rabbi" from the article. You can look at my edit history, besides for this one time, I have never used the "V" word.
In regard to the removed link: My apoligies, you are right, I did edit the Edah Hacheridis link. What happened was, I just reverted it to the previous version, not noticing the additional change you made which should not have been reverted. There is no reason why it should not be linked.-- Yeshivish 01:01, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
repeated reverting of unsourced opinion is contrary to policy & arguably vandalism with the effect of unfairly denigrating subject of article. you said you were prepared to discuss the article so could you respond to points i raised. that is the now unecessary sentence "Although he purports.." can go while we discuss these issues & how do you justify your uncited opinions (as already stated, if true it shld be possible to source criticism of such a controversial person). regarding the 'burden of proof' arguments offered above, there are multiple cited r s (obviously these are the ones in the references, not your rhetorical 'tv' source). i have requested such justification from you multiple times, i do not think it is unreasonable to expect answers. ⇒ bsnowball 10:53, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
"Although he purports" seems to be a compromise between the pro-rabbi "group" and the anti-rabbi group. The anti-rabbi group does not consider him a rabbi because the sources are unsatisfactory and/or because it is common knowledge within the Orthodox Jewish community ( WP:CN)that he is not considered a rabbi.Personally, I have no problem with the removal of "Although he purports", but it seems to have been accepted as a compromise by the editors.-- Yeshivish 19:47, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
What about tthe rumor that he's gay?—Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.93.254.200 ( talk • contribs) 9 January 2007
To Yeshivish (who might prefer calling himself Kahanist) and DavidCharles I will not respond too much. Just this I would like to respond to (from earlier):
No, 66.93, it is not a fact. In fact it is a lie. There has never been a cherem on them from anybody. Not from the Edah, not from Satmar, not from the 'Chief Rabbinate' even. There have been condemnations, denunciations - Daas Torah against them. But no cherem. Please don't come with plain lies. -- Chussid 21:41, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
You are one delusional fool. I am sorry, they were ONLY condemned. They are MERELY going against daas Torah. You have to be as unlearned as a Neturei Karta (from Monsey) to think that is somehow better. There are charomim against them in Monsey, by the way. And it is not a lie if you thought it true. Few think there is a functional difference between the charomim and denunciations urging Jews to stay away from Non-Jews (do we even KNOW he is Jewish?) like Weiss. You, possibly Weiss himself, are in no position to talk about plain lies if you allow words like "Rabbi" to be used with somsone who is not a Rav, Rosh yeshiva, or Talmid chochom. And thank you David Charles, for confirming the extent of the rumors. I have heard from many who knew him while he lived in New Jersey that Weiss is a cross dresser. 66.93.254.200 13:38, 9 January 2007 (UTC)
Rabbi 66, You are correct about the cross dressing rumors, as well. I heard them, too. Sincerely, Rabbi DavidCharlesII 20:41, 9 January 2007 (UTC)
Uhhh...The B'datz didn't put them in Cherem. They merely told the Jerusalem community to distance themselves from the 7, or 4, depending which sign your reading. I'm not sure if you are knowledgeable in the laws of such a thing, but the B'datz of Jerusalem does not have the power to put anyone outside of Jerusalem in Cherem. Anyone with a news article from a reputable agency saying Weiss is an unindicted cross dressing, child molesting, homosexual bestiality enthusiast should for certain print that here as it is encyclopedia worthy for the reasons of it pertaining very strongly to this particular article, as well as to other articles dealing with sexual pathology. I would be certain this would make him the most sexually pathological individual never arrested for any sexual crime. Shia1 04:00, 7 February 2007 (UTC)
ok regardless of ones ability to decide who is/n't a rabbi, of my latest rv, the fox vid links (i think) have to stay out as we're not allowed to even link to copyvio material. more importantly...
re the continued vandalism, have asked for consultation Wikipedia:Wikiquette_alerts#10-January-2007 & this, ahem, did not advance the situation. given the above 'discussion' i'm not convinced mediation is particularly worthwhile (tho will participate if anyone else proposes). next time someone removes multiply sourced material and/or adds unsourced material i think applying for arbitration would be appropriate. anyone got any better ideas?12:09, 12 January 2007 —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bsnowball ( talk • contribs)
66, please quit the slander and personal attacks. The fact that you don't like Weiss doesn't change anything. The mainstream media calls him 'rabbi', and so should we. Aside from that, the guy is a misguided fool causing a huge chillul Hashem together with his colleagues who went to Iran. Your comment about Satmar/Edah being the 'real NK' is total nonsense. Satmar and the other Edah-affiliated movements are not NK and have never operated under that name. NK is a totally different movement; the relation between them and the Edah is that most NK people only eat Edah. -- Chussid 16:59, 13 January 2007 (UTC)
Taken from http://www.islamonline.net/livedialogue/english/Guestcv.asp?hGuestID=ELk1V5
All the following are subject to confirmation:
Rabbi Yisroel Dovid Weiss
1996 - Present: Talmud Instructor, Yeshiva Beis Yehudi (Monsey, New York); Associate Rabbi, Neturei Karta International; Speaker and Lecturer on Zionism and related matters;
1989 - 1996: Rabbinic Fellow and Talmud Instructor Kollel Ayeles Hashachar (Monroe, New York);
1987 - 1988: Rabbinic Fellow and Student of Ritual Circumcision, Kollel Chofetz Chaim (London, England)
1985 - 1987: Talmud Instructor and Rabbinic Fellow Yeshiva Beis Yehudi (Monsey, New York); Received Rabbinic Certificate in Yeshivas Beis Yehudi;
1983 - 1985: Rabbinic Fellow, Kollel Bigszahd (Brooklyn, New York);
1979 - 1983: Rabbinic Fellow, Nitra Kollel (Brooklyn, New York);
1974 - 1979: Rabbinic College Chasan Sofer (Brooklyn, New York)
1970 - 1974: Yeshiva Be’er Shmuel High School (Brooklyn, New York)
1960 - 1970: Tiferes Torah Elementary School
Born October 28, 1956
-- 00:45, 17 January 2007 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.132.240.226 ( talk • contribs)
1876 50th St, Brooklyn, NY 11204
Brooklyn is full of tiny yeshivas (talmudic seminaries). There is no accrediting organization and each has their own standards (or lack of them) in handing out rabbinic ordination. 217.132.237.5 19:02, 17 January 2007 (UTC)
We certainly need to make sure that this cv is accurate. We have to find Yeshiva Beis Yehudi (never heard of it and I doubt it exists) and work from there. Notice how he does not say who give it to him; that says a lot. If he gave it to himself or had another am ha'aretz friend give it to him, it is a sham. Finally, how did YOU obtain it? Are you Mr. Weiss himself? Are you a cohort of his? Maran Hagaon 66.93.254.200 23:08, 17 January 2007 (UTC)
As noted above, I obtained the resume from the Islamonline.net website via a Google search. The address I found using Yahoo Yellow Pages. Yeshiva Beis Yehudi is in fact the Neturei Karta HQ in Monsey, NY. And I am most definitely not Weiss or a "cohort" of his. 89.138.35.176 16:04, 18 January 2007 (UTC)
John, do not be surprised if you cannot find the institutions cited in this cv. This is coming from the same man who lies about having HUNDREDS of THOUSANDS of followers when in reality he is regarded as an eccentric by the entire Jewish community, including anti-Zionists communities like Satmar. He has no legitamicy or integrity. Maran HaGaon HaGadol 66.93.254.200 23:10, 17 January 2007 (UTC)
You are being idiots. Just because you don't like somebody doesn't mean everything they say is flase, and implying smallness doesn't mean the movement is illegitimate. In the Book of Kings there were only 7000 Jews who had not worshiped Baal at one point. In any case, its quite easy to believe there are 100,000 Neturei Kartaniks. I live in Beit Shemesh, over the hill in Ramat Beit Shemesh are about 1,000 families of Neturei Kartaniks. That's the police estimate. Calm down. Your so emotional your attacking people on nonsense. You are requiring proof of his smicha to a much greater degree than you require it of anybody else. 82.81.19.174 09:24, 31 January 2007 (UTC)
Beis Yehudi is the Neturei Karta Beis Midrash in Monsey. All the others are fairly well known. I hope that helps. Shia1 04:05, 7 February 2007 (UTC)
hi -- i think that in the speech rabbi weiss variated slightly from his prepared text. although his "admonishment" to president ahmadinejad is in the audio version its not in the transcript so i dont know what to do either as far as its inclusion in the wikipedia entry. i would think the quote is acceptable since it is accurate. i guess we will have to see what other editors think etc. Lurgis 21:56, 18 January 2007 (UTC)
No group of Neturei Kartaniks think he is illigit. Stop this silly stuff. All your little Modern Orthodox friends will tell you it's true, but anyone who knows these people knows you sound really really silly. There are in Israel two groups of NKniks, both following different sons-in-laws of Amram Blau the founder. One group doesn't like that the other has a website and speaks with the Western Media. They feel these things are immitations of non-Jewish culture. They do not dissaprove of meatings, and their founder met with Khomeini in the 70s. Shia1 09:50, 31 January 2007 (UTC)
Thank you for listing in such eloquent fashion all the reasons you are not impartial and should not edit this article. The fact, apart from your opinion, as it stands right now is that every media outlet he appears on refers to him as rabbi. Those are all sources. Others have said that they should not be considered valid sources, but by Wikipedia policy CBS, and FOx are valid sources. Also, if you could present who in NK does not consider him legit, who is there leader, where are they located, you would have an arguement. Right now you have a quote from a former teacher at Yeshivah University, which to my humblest knowledge has its own problems with legitimacy in the Orthodox world. 82.81.103.16 02:50, 2 February 2007 (UTC)
==Should it be mentioned==
Should it be mentioned that the ashkenazi chief rabbi is not a posek, has no smicha in dayanus (and thus his opinion on the kashrus of a chicken is valid, his opinion on cherem is not), is an indicted child molestor, and has admitted to struggling with his own homosexuality. Just to give balance to the article so everyone knows who is calling for cherem? 88.153.98.99 11:50, 31 January 2007 (UTC)
I'm sorry, but with Mr. Weiss they are rumors; and yes he does have smicha as every news media outlet he appears on and the ADl attest to by calling him rabbi. To my humblest knowledge he is not a dayan, but then again he does not occupy a position that calls for it, wheras the Ashkenazi chief rabbi is the first chief rabbi of any nation not to be a dayan. With the Ashkenai chief rabbi it is fact that he has been INDICTED, and was forced to step down as a candidate for chief rabbi of Tel Aviv due to his sexual meanderings. If there is a source other than Ynetnews which says that Satmar or the B'datz put out anything critical, I'd be surprised as there are no signs up here. Also, if Weiss is ever indicted formally for any of the sexual proclivities you accuse him of, you should put it up. The ACR has been indicted formally and forced to step down from a candidacy because of it. That merits mention. 88.154.27.69 13:43, 1 February 200::7 (UTC)
I am not David Charles, but I will come in here to talk about how I feel about your points. First, it is apparent that you know NOTHING about WEiss, Charedim or Judaism (with a decidedly anti_Israel of Jewish bias, or that you are Weiss (or a cohort of his his) pretending to be a concerned editor. Second, Rabbi David Charles calls himself Rabbi, I also call him Rabbi--therefore YOU have to call him Rabbi.
justification for my changes
Everyone should read this before adding more unsourced material. And this is even more important. The upshot of these policies we can't add unsourced negative material to biographys of living people. Users can eventually be blocked for doing so. This bit's particularly interesting: "In cases where the information is derogatory and poorly sourced or unsourced, this kind of edit is an exception to the three-revert rule." ⇒ bsnowball 18:19, 3 February 2007 (UTC)
Her website would be considered a hate site by most individuals. She is, in this case, as reputable a source as David DUke is on othe Jewish issues. I think much of this needs to be brought before the arbitration commitee so they can ban users who have been taking liberties with wikipedia policy in order to further their own political or religious agendas. I for one am voting for arbitration. Shia1 19:13, 7 February 2007 (UTC)
Okay I'm basically neutral here. Basically because I have no feeling for ZIonism and am neutral towards Rabbi Weiss, neither hating him nor showering him with affections. Here's my neutral POv. He is a rabbi as far as the article is concerned. Why? Because that is how he is presented to the public on various news outlets., so that is how we present him unless there is evidence to the contrary. I know this upsets some, but the fact is we have equal evidence he is a rabbi, as we do that his real name is Weiss. About the handshaking, there are two major issues. First, the woman who says she saw it, says so in an op/ed, which is not a source by encyclopedic standards. I'm sorry. Secondly, to assert that he broke a Jewish law by doing so it would need proven. The problem with that is Rabbi Weiss or Mr. Weiss, or whatever you want to call him, claims to be Hungarian. Hungarian Jewry is made up of Hasidim and Uberlanders. The Uberlanders are Yekki by origin, like the Chasam Sofer. FOr thos unfamiliar with Yekkis, they have a tradition that a handshake is not "pleasurable" enough to constitute pleasurable physical contact, and will shake. My 2 cents. BTW, I added his holocaust comments because they seemed germane. Shia1 01:27, 4 February 2007 (UTC)
I am again voting for these matters to be brought before the arbitration committee so that those who are the real vandals can be banned from using or abusing wikipedia anymore. Also, anti-semite and lunatic are epithets, and you are abusing other users because you disagree with them. Please refrain from thse activities or you will be reported. You should add your Aguddah reference if it is germane. That is sourced, and a valid source. YOu may not add things from hate websites. The same website also claims Weiss is the chief rabbi of Hezbollah. To my knowledge Hezbollah does not claim a chief rabbi. Shia1 19:16, 7 February 2007 (UTC)
Unfortunately I didn't get to see the Aggudah addition. I think it probably belongs in brief as another denunciation, perhaps quoting the main idea, or the sentance that most sums it up. That seems fair if it is sourced, as well as informative and good for the article. I'm not against it being mentioned Duke was at the conference, as long as it is not implied the 7 agreed with him. I think as long as we leave Rabbi Weiss's statement up, it would be okay. It highlights why people objected to their attendance. About him being a rabbi, as he is presented as a rabbi, and is accepted as a rabbi by every news outlet, it would take a reliable source (and I'm placing religious zionist publications outside of reliable on this one) saying this is false and demonstrating how for it to be mentioned he is not. COuld you calmly explain why you believe he is not. Shia1 03:23, 8 February 2007 (UTC)
![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | Archive 2 |
i agree with bsnowball that rabbi weiss is a rabbi please have someone in authority to make a ruling and stop vandalizing rabbi weiss entry thanks Lurgis 07:57, 24 December 2006 (UTC)
On what basis do you disagree? I have yet to discover if Weiss serves as a Rav, maggid shiur, Rebbi or was even ordained as a Rabbi. I am not here to start a fight, only to ask on what basis you are making the above assertion. I would also ask, and I mean this in sincerity, if Weiss is a homosexual. There is a very strong rumor circulating the New york-New jersey area that he is even a cross-dresser. Is this true?
um, i'll leave
this here for now, took me a while to notice we'd gotten the wrong rabbi:
<ref>[http://www.nkusa.org/activities/Speeches/2006Iran-ACohen.cfm Orthodox Jewish Attitude to the 'Holocaust'] by Rabbi Aharon Cohen (Neturei Karta Internation Website) Accesed December 15, 2006</ref>
⇒
bsnowball
16:50, 14 December 2006 (UTC)
Even if I had the burden to prove that he is not a rabbi, it is something that is virtually impossible to prove. How does one go about proving that one isn't something. There are no sources as to what a person is not, there are only sources as to what a person IS.
Having said that, there is no legitimate (or even non-legitimate)source that he got Rabbinic ordination or serves in any capicity in a synagouge as a Rabbi.-- Yeshivish 05:45, 3 January 2007 (UTC)
By the way, we do have a source for these guys not being mainstream NK:
"“I think it’s a fatal error,” said Rabbi Norman Lamm, the former president of Yeshiva University and author of a monograph on the group. “They went so far out that any rational Neturei Karta member or anti-Zionist would be repulsed”"
[1]
I'm sure we could use that somehow, in the NK article also. --
Chussid 14:17, 29 December 2006 (UTC)
The problem is that's a quote from a Yehsivah University guy on his opwn speculation. I'm getting tired of having to be the person to defend people when others are piling on, but "self appointed," is not accurate. He is appointed by Rabbi Moshe Ber Beck, who, like it or not, is respected even among Aggudist poskim as a Talmuf Chocham. Is there anyway we can all calm down, post only sourced material from reliable sources, and remove ourselves from the article when we find the need to bring up cross dressing, homosexual, child molesting, bestiality rumors about people. If these rumors seem plausible to you in their entirety, you are probably blinded by bias.
Shia1
04:13, 7 February 2007 (UTC)
He is not a Rav. He is not a maggi shiur. He is not a rebbie in a Cheder. He does not have semicha.
HE IS NOT A RABBI!!!
Stop being dishonest. A "Mr." can have views, too. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 66.93.254.200 ( talk) 17:14, 29 December 2006 (UTC).
You are showing your emotionalism. There are a million news outlets that can be sited with his name Rabbi Weiss. SO that is what his name is here. Evidently you do not like him, but all the evidence is that he is a rabbi. Do you have reason to believe those news outlets are being misleading. If you do you should post it. 88.153.142.83 06:16, 28 January 2007 (UTC)
reverted yet another FrummerThanThou] copy & paste vandalism back to: "01:51, 31 December 2006 Yeshivish (Talk | contribs) (i believe its more factually correct)" Lurgis 00:20, 1 January 2007 (UTC)
ADL Letter to Fox News Channel, 28 july 2006 Lurgis 16:41, 1 January 2007 (UTC)
please note that in their letter to fox news that the anti-defamation league acknowledges that rabbi weiss is a rabbi. Lurgis 22:36, 2 January 2007 (UTC)
Provide a source for this. But even if this is true, who is the ADL to know that? Becaus Mr. Weiss said so? What is their criterion? Mr. Weiss himself said to a Rabbi (its on youtube) that a Rabbi who desecrates the Torah is like a dead dog on the street. He is completely against daas torah. Let the dead dog lie in the street. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.93.254.200 ( talk • contribs) 00:22, 4 January 2007
Again you show you emotionalism. Every news outlet and even his enemies admit he's a rabbi. What would satisfy you, him holding a smicha certificate with the Rabbonim who gave it to him presenting two forms of government ID in the photo as well? 82.81.19.174 09:19, 31 January 2007 (UTC)
I cannot understand how thoughtful factbased additions to this article are deleted without just cause. He is not a rabbi. That is a fact. And if he claims he is one, this ought to be added in the controversies section. Stop weaseling out of it. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 66.93.254.200 ( talk) 15:16, 2 January 2007 (UTC).
its amazing how some so called editors such as DavidCharlesII continue to insert wild unsubstantiated claims, vandalism and POV pushing into this entry yet have the unmitigated gall to accuse me (and others) of doing what they are doing. Lurgis 18:57, 2 January 2007 (UTC)
What is so wild? That he has no semicha? He doesn't. That he is not a Rosh Yeshiva? He is not a Rosh Yeshiva. That is he is not a Rav in a Shul. He is not a Rav in a Shul. I know this. Everyone in Monsey knows this. If you insist with these claims, at least PROVE them. The only other thing Rabbi David Charles keeps adding is the FACT that Eida charedis put him on cherem, too. How is THAT wild? ITS A FACT!!! 66.93.254.200 14:26, 3 January 2007 (UTC)
In regard to your personal attack: I think I have been reasonable with you, I don't know why you had to lower the level of argument here and call my actions "childish". I also have no idea what you are refering to with "links to edah ha charedis etc." I don't recall editing links of that nature, nor do I recall editing any links on this site.-- Yeshivish 20:46, 4 January 2007 (UTC)
i agree that there is NO CONSENSUS here. what is apparent to any reasonable minded jew or goy that comes here and views this entrys history and talk pages is that there is a contingent of pro-zionist agents masquerading as wikipedia editors bound and determined to make every entry they disagree with to reflect the zionist view. sadly wikipedia admins arent doing their job and enforcing wikipedia rules etc., thus giving credibility to judicial inc's wikipedia caveat. Lurgis 16:46, 4 January 2007 (UTC)
It's funny because to me it seems apparent that there is a contingent of anti-zionist agents masquerading as wikipedia editors bound and determined to make every entry they disagree with to reflect the anti-zionist view. So how about we call a truce, make the article NPV, and only put in facts with LEGIT sources.-- Yeshivish 20:46, 4 January 2007 (UTC)
Lurgis is way off. Mr. Weiss has lied about how many support him, and his qualifications as a Rabbi are, at best, dubious. You are an agent for Mr. Weiss or Mr. Weiss himself, as he has perhaps only five other followers in the world.—Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.93.254.200 ( talk • contribs) 04:04, 5 January 2007
please yeshivish, on the score of 'personalising' debate, you had already accused me of vandalism for removing unsourced material. if you are prepared to discuss this, then while the title rabbi is not there, surely the sentence "Although he purports to be a rabbi..." is uneccessary? (also per yr argument above, the claims in that sentence are impossible to verify.) otherwise there are 7 sources for 'rabbi weiss' (none of them tv shows, i have made no mention of any tv show) & any number more can be provided. & as i said, surely with all the controversy, why can you you not find a single reliable source disputing his claim? also please stop pretending there is consensus, & that something is nn because you disagree with it. ps re my claim about your last rv of my edit, have a look at what you reverted ⇒ bsnowball 14:55, 5 January 2007 (UTC)
Snowball,I find it ironic that you are sensitive to the "vandalism" accusation. In the edit history of this article you seem to throw around the "vandalism" accusation at every edit. Indeed, the only reason why I used "vandalism" was because you used the "vandalism" charge when an editor removed the unsourced "Rabbi" from the article. You can look at my edit history, besides for this one time, I have never used the "V" word.
In regard to the removed link: My apoligies, you are right, I did edit the Edah Hacheridis link. What happened was, I just reverted it to the previous version, not noticing the additional change you made which should not have been reverted. There is no reason why it should not be linked.-- Yeshivish 01:01, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
repeated reverting of unsourced opinion is contrary to policy & arguably vandalism with the effect of unfairly denigrating subject of article. you said you were prepared to discuss the article so could you respond to points i raised. that is the now unecessary sentence "Although he purports.." can go while we discuss these issues & how do you justify your uncited opinions (as already stated, if true it shld be possible to source criticism of such a controversial person). regarding the 'burden of proof' arguments offered above, there are multiple cited r s (obviously these are the ones in the references, not your rhetorical 'tv' source). i have requested such justification from you multiple times, i do not think it is unreasonable to expect answers. ⇒ bsnowball 10:53, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
"Although he purports" seems to be a compromise between the pro-rabbi "group" and the anti-rabbi group. The anti-rabbi group does not consider him a rabbi because the sources are unsatisfactory and/or because it is common knowledge within the Orthodox Jewish community ( WP:CN)that he is not considered a rabbi.Personally, I have no problem with the removal of "Although he purports", but it seems to have been accepted as a compromise by the editors.-- Yeshivish 19:47, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
What about tthe rumor that he's gay?—Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.93.254.200 ( talk • contribs) 9 January 2007
To Yeshivish (who might prefer calling himself Kahanist) and DavidCharles I will not respond too much. Just this I would like to respond to (from earlier):
No, 66.93, it is not a fact. In fact it is a lie. There has never been a cherem on them from anybody. Not from the Edah, not from Satmar, not from the 'Chief Rabbinate' even. There have been condemnations, denunciations - Daas Torah against them. But no cherem. Please don't come with plain lies. -- Chussid 21:41, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
You are one delusional fool. I am sorry, they were ONLY condemned. They are MERELY going against daas Torah. You have to be as unlearned as a Neturei Karta (from Monsey) to think that is somehow better. There are charomim against them in Monsey, by the way. And it is not a lie if you thought it true. Few think there is a functional difference between the charomim and denunciations urging Jews to stay away from Non-Jews (do we even KNOW he is Jewish?) like Weiss. You, possibly Weiss himself, are in no position to talk about plain lies if you allow words like "Rabbi" to be used with somsone who is not a Rav, Rosh yeshiva, or Talmid chochom. And thank you David Charles, for confirming the extent of the rumors. I have heard from many who knew him while he lived in New Jersey that Weiss is a cross dresser. 66.93.254.200 13:38, 9 January 2007 (UTC)
Rabbi 66, You are correct about the cross dressing rumors, as well. I heard them, too. Sincerely, Rabbi DavidCharlesII 20:41, 9 January 2007 (UTC)
Uhhh...The B'datz didn't put them in Cherem. They merely told the Jerusalem community to distance themselves from the 7, or 4, depending which sign your reading. I'm not sure if you are knowledgeable in the laws of such a thing, but the B'datz of Jerusalem does not have the power to put anyone outside of Jerusalem in Cherem. Anyone with a news article from a reputable agency saying Weiss is an unindicted cross dressing, child molesting, homosexual bestiality enthusiast should for certain print that here as it is encyclopedia worthy for the reasons of it pertaining very strongly to this particular article, as well as to other articles dealing with sexual pathology. I would be certain this would make him the most sexually pathological individual never arrested for any sexual crime. Shia1 04:00, 7 February 2007 (UTC)
ok regardless of ones ability to decide who is/n't a rabbi, of my latest rv, the fox vid links (i think) have to stay out as we're not allowed to even link to copyvio material. more importantly...
re the continued vandalism, have asked for consultation Wikipedia:Wikiquette_alerts#10-January-2007 & this, ahem, did not advance the situation. given the above 'discussion' i'm not convinced mediation is particularly worthwhile (tho will participate if anyone else proposes). next time someone removes multiply sourced material and/or adds unsourced material i think applying for arbitration would be appropriate. anyone got any better ideas?12:09, 12 January 2007 —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bsnowball ( talk • contribs)
66, please quit the slander and personal attacks. The fact that you don't like Weiss doesn't change anything. The mainstream media calls him 'rabbi', and so should we. Aside from that, the guy is a misguided fool causing a huge chillul Hashem together with his colleagues who went to Iran. Your comment about Satmar/Edah being the 'real NK' is total nonsense. Satmar and the other Edah-affiliated movements are not NK and have never operated under that name. NK is a totally different movement; the relation between them and the Edah is that most NK people only eat Edah. -- Chussid 16:59, 13 January 2007 (UTC)
Taken from http://www.islamonline.net/livedialogue/english/Guestcv.asp?hGuestID=ELk1V5
All the following are subject to confirmation:
Rabbi Yisroel Dovid Weiss
1996 - Present: Talmud Instructor, Yeshiva Beis Yehudi (Monsey, New York); Associate Rabbi, Neturei Karta International; Speaker and Lecturer on Zionism and related matters;
1989 - 1996: Rabbinic Fellow and Talmud Instructor Kollel Ayeles Hashachar (Monroe, New York);
1987 - 1988: Rabbinic Fellow and Student of Ritual Circumcision, Kollel Chofetz Chaim (London, England)
1985 - 1987: Talmud Instructor and Rabbinic Fellow Yeshiva Beis Yehudi (Monsey, New York); Received Rabbinic Certificate in Yeshivas Beis Yehudi;
1983 - 1985: Rabbinic Fellow, Kollel Bigszahd (Brooklyn, New York);
1979 - 1983: Rabbinic Fellow, Nitra Kollel (Brooklyn, New York);
1974 - 1979: Rabbinic College Chasan Sofer (Brooklyn, New York)
1970 - 1974: Yeshiva Be’er Shmuel High School (Brooklyn, New York)
1960 - 1970: Tiferes Torah Elementary School
Born October 28, 1956
-- 00:45, 17 January 2007 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.132.240.226 ( talk • contribs)
1876 50th St, Brooklyn, NY 11204
Brooklyn is full of tiny yeshivas (talmudic seminaries). There is no accrediting organization and each has their own standards (or lack of them) in handing out rabbinic ordination. 217.132.237.5 19:02, 17 January 2007 (UTC)
We certainly need to make sure that this cv is accurate. We have to find Yeshiva Beis Yehudi (never heard of it and I doubt it exists) and work from there. Notice how he does not say who give it to him; that says a lot. If he gave it to himself or had another am ha'aretz friend give it to him, it is a sham. Finally, how did YOU obtain it? Are you Mr. Weiss himself? Are you a cohort of his? Maran Hagaon 66.93.254.200 23:08, 17 January 2007 (UTC)
As noted above, I obtained the resume from the Islamonline.net website via a Google search. The address I found using Yahoo Yellow Pages. Yeshiva Beis Yehudi is in fact the Neturei Karta HQ in Monsey, NY. And I am most definitely not Weiss or a "cohort" of his. 89.138.35.176 16:04, 18 January 2007 (UTC)
John, do not be surprised if you cannot find the institutions cited in this cv. This is coming from the same man who lies about having HUNDREDS of THOUSANDS of followers when in reality he is regarded as an eccentric by the entire Jewish community, including anti-Zionists communities like Satmar. He has no legitamicy or integrity. Maran HaGaon HaGadol 66.93.254.200 23:10, 17 January 2007 (UTC)
You are being idiots. Just because you don't like somebody doesn't mean everything they say is flase, and implying smallness doesn't mean the movement is illegitimate. In the Book of Kings there were only 7000 Jews who had not worshiped Baal at one point. In any case, its quite easy to believe there are 100,000 Neturei Kartaniks. I live in Beit Shemesh, over the hill in Ramat Beit Shemesh are about 1,000 families of Neturei Kartaniks. That's the police estimate. Calm down. Your so emotional your attacking people on nonsense. You are requiring proof of his smicha to a much greater degree than you require it of anybody else. 82.81.19.174 09:24, 31 January 2007 (UTC)
Beis Yehudi is the Neturei Karta Beis Midrash in Monsey. All the others are fairly well known. I hope that helps. Shia1 04:05, 7 February 2007 (UTC)
hi -- i think that in the speech rabbi weiss variated slightly from his prepared text. although his "admonishment" to president ahmadinejad is in the audio version its not in the transcript so i dont know what to do either as far as its inclusion in the wikipedia entry. i would think the quote is acceptable since it is accurate. i guess we will have to see what other editors think etc. Lurgis 21:56, 18 January 2007 (UTC)
No group of Neturei Kartaniks think he is illigit. Stop this silly stuff. All your little Modern Orthodox friends will tell you it's true, but anyone who knows these people knows you sound really really silly. There are in Israel two groups of NKniks, both following different sons-in-laws of Amram Blau the founder. One group doesn't like that the other has a website and speaks with the Western Media. They feel these things are immitations of non-Jewish culture. They do not dissaprove of meatings, and their founder met with Khomeini in the 70s. Shia1 09:50, 31 January 2007 (UTC)
Thank you for listing in such eloquent fashion all the reasons you are not impartial and should not edit this article. The fact, apart from your opinion, as it stands right now is that every media outlet he appears on refers to him as rabbi. Those are all sources. Others have said that they should not be considered valid sources, but by Wikipedia policy CBS, and FOx are valid sources. Also, if you could present who in NK does not consider him legit, who is there leader, where are they located, you would have an arguement. Right now you have a quote from a former teacher at Yeshivah University, which to my humblest knowledge has its own problems with legitimacy in the Orthodox world. 82.81.103.16 02:50, 2 February 2007 (UTC)
==Should it be mentioned==
Should it be mentioned that the ashkenazi chief rabbi is not a posek, has no smicha in dayanus (and thus his opinion on the kashrus of a chicken is valid, his opinion on cherem is not), is an indicted child molestor, and has admitted to struggling with his own homosexuality. Just to give balance to the article so everyone knows who is calling for cherem? 88.153.98.99 11:50, 31 January 2007 (UTC)
I'm sorry, but with Mr. Weiss they are rumors; and yes he does have smicha as every news media outlet he appears on and the ADl attest to by calling him rabbi. To my humblest knowledge he is not a dayan, but then again he does not occupy a position that calls for it, wheras the Ashkenazi chief rabbi is the first chief rabbi of any nation not to be a dayan. With the Ashkenai chief rabbi it is fact that he has been INDICTED, and was forced to step down as a candidate for chief rabbi of Tel Aviv due to his sexual meanderings. If there is a source other than Ynetnews which says that Satmar or the B'datz put out anything critical, I'd be surprised as there are no signs up here. Also, if Weiss is ever indicted formally for any of the sexual proclivities you accuse him of, you should put it up. The ACR has been indicted formally and forced to step down from a candidacy because of it. That merits mention. 88.154.27.69 13:43, 1 February 200::7 (UTC)
I am not David Charles, but I will come in here to talk about how I feel about your points. First, it is apparent that you know NOTHING about WEiss, Charedim or Judaism (with a decidedly anti_Israel of Jewish bias, or that you are Weiss (or a cohort of his his) pretending to be a concerned editor. Second, Rabbi David Charles calls himself Rabbi, I also call him Rabbi--therefore YOU have to call him Rabbi.
justification for my changes
Everyone should read this before adding more unsourced material. And this is even more important. The upshot of these policies we can't add unsourced negative material to biographys of living people. Users can eventually be blocked for doing so. This bit's particularly interesting: "In cases where the information is derogatory and poorly sourced or unsourced, this kind of edit is an exception to the three-revert rule." ⇒ bsnowball 18:19, 3 February 2007 (UTC)
Her website would be considered a hate site by most individuals. She is, in this case, as reputable a source as David DUke is on othe Jewish issues. I think much of this needs to be brought before the arbitration commitee so they can ban users who have been taking liberties with wikipedia policy in order to further their own political or religious agendas. I for one am voting for arbitration. Shia1 19:13, 7 February 2007 (UTC)
Okay I'm basically neutral here. Basically because I have no feeling for ZIonism and am neutral towards Rabbi Weiss, neither hating him nor showering him with affections. Here's my neutral POv. He is a rabbi as far as the article is concerned. Why? Because that is how he is presented to the public on various news outlets., so that is how we present him unless there is evidence to the contrary. I know this upsets some, but the fact is we have equal evidence he is a rabbi, as we do that his real name is Weiss. About the handshaking, there are two major issues. First, the woman who says she saw it, says so in an op/ed, which is not a source by encyclopedic standards. I'm sorry. Secondly, to assert that he broke a Jewish law by doing so it would need proven. The problem with that is Rabbi Weiss or Mr. Weiss, or whatever you want to call him, claims to be Hungarian. Hungarian Jewry is made up of Hasidim and Uberlanders. The Uberlanders are Yekki by origin, like the Chasam Sofer. FOr thos unfamiliar with Yekkis, they have a tradition that a handshake is not "pleasurable" enough to constitute pleasurable physical contact, and will shake. My 2 cents. BTW, I added his holocaust comments because they seemed germane. Shia1 01:27, 4 February 2007 (UTC)
I am again voting for these matters to be brought before the arbitration committee so that those who are the real vandals can be banned from using or abusing wikipedia anymore. Also, anti-semite and lunatic are epithets, and you are abusing other users because you disagree with them. Please refrain from thse activities or you will be reported. You should add your Aguddah reference if it is germane. That is sourced, and a valid source. YOu may not add things from hate websites. The same website also claims Weiss is the chief rabbi of Hezbollah. To my knowledge Hezbollah does not claim a chief rabbi. Shia1 19:16, 7 February 2007 (UTC)
Unfortunately I didn't get to see the Aggudah addition. I think it probably belongs in brief as another denunciation, perhaps quoting the main idea, or the sentance that most sums it up. That seems fair if it is sourced, as well as informative and good for the article. I'm not against it being mentioned Duke was at the conference, as long as it is not implied the 7 agreed with him. I think as long as we leave Rabbi Weiss's statement up, it would be okay. It highlights why people objected to their attendance. About him being a rabbi, as he is presented as a rabbi, and is accepted as a rabbi by every news outlet, it would take a reliable source (and I'm placing religious zionist publications outside of reliable on this one) saying this is false and demonstrating how for it to be mentioned he is not. COuld you calmly explain why you believe he is not. Shia1 03:23, 8 February 2007 (UTC)