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Does anyone out there speak Yiddish and can verify something? This article says some verbs form the past tense by using "hobn," while others form it by using "zayn," and that there is no way to know which ones use which, it is arbitrary. This seems odd, if Yiddish is a dialect of German, it would be very predictable: In German (as in old English) the past tense of transitive verbs uses "habben" while that of intransitive verbs uses "sein." This is very predictable and regular. If the verb can take an object, it is transitive "eat," because you eat and apple, the apple is the direct object. But "sleep" has no direct object, you don't do sleep to anything. Other examples would be "hit," you hit a ball, but "wake up" has no object, same for "go," etc. I imagine that Yiddish must be the same. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Nealmcgrath ( talk • contribs) 01:37, 6 March 2010 (UTC)
how do you form the future tense?
Certain verbs will take האָבן 'hobn', while others will take זײַן 'zayn'. There is no way to tell which verbs take which auxiliary.
I would tend to disagree, and instead say that the choice of auxiliary is based on unaccusativity, as it is in German. If no conversation is started on the topic after several weeks, I'll just write up a small explanation on it; I'm interested to hear any thoughts on this though.
— Firespeaker 08:57, 2 January 2006 (UTC)
I would suggest (and make myself if I had the time presently) changes to this article based on current spoken Yiddish in the Charedi sector, which is much less inflected (as detailed in Jacobs 2006, Yiddish: A Linguistic Introduction). Der/dos/di are not distinguished in many cases. That is, if this article is meant to be descriptive and not prescriptive, which I think is a fair goal for an encyclopedia article. Zackary Sholem Berger 17:04, 25 August 2006 (UTC)
It says that "It differs from German in not having a genitive case, and in the dative plural, where German uses den.".
But according to the table, it also differs in the accusative masculine definite article, because the accusative masculine definite article in German is "den" while in Yiddish it is "dem".
Is it like that? Can you fix it? Is the table correct?
Is it true that this article only covers the grammar of Eastern Yiddish (or actually a particular Eastern Yiddish dialect)? I don't know very much about Yiddish dialectology, but I find it hard to believe that there should be so few dialect differences, especially between Eastern and Western Yiddish dialects. There is indeed a short section mentioning dialectal differences, but it doesn't even make clear what the dialect described here is. -- Florian Blaschke ( talk) 02:52, 26 March 2015 (UTC)
I just want to clarify that עטס/ענק (ets/eynk) is *not* formal and is just the second person plural informal, not formal. Also, not sure how to add it to the imperative, but basically in the imperative, עטס conjugation is the same as in the regular form, so עטס קויפטס ווײַן - you (all) buy wine, קויפטס ווײַן! - buy wine! — Preceding
unsigned comment added by
69.119.212.211 (
talk)
16:09, 4 August 2020 (UTC)
The section on plural nouns says "Nouns built on the diminutive suffixes -l and -ele form the plural in -ekh". It classifies this as an irregular plural. Why is this fully determinable rule less regular than the -s ending for nouns ending in an unstressed vowel? Largoplazo ( talk) 15:25, 29 May 2022 (UTC)
This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 22 August 2022 and 1 December 2022. Further details are available
on the course page. Student editor(s):
SPLL,
Bguti2,
Llill2,
Wsehwail (
article contribs). Peer reviewers:
Dquin3,
Zohaib Alvi,
Ivanatheslayer,
Liannp,
Iur444.
— Assignment last updated by UICLing ( talk) 10:56, 20 October 2022 (UTC)
Students: Respond to your peer feedback by posting what changes you will make and what should be made to the article based on your peers' suggestions. Click "reply" below to respond. @ SPLL, @ Bguti2, @ Llill2, @ Wsehwail UICLing ( talk) 16:32, 1 November 2022 (UTC)
BS"D
While the use of YIVO orthography and pronunciation is standard, it is a bit flawed on two parts:
1) It spells Hebrew loans as pronounced, which can be confusing. Native speakers (and many non-ones) normally approach the language with some knowledge of Hebrew, and when hearing a word like Shabbs Kawydesh, understand it to mean Shabbos Kodesh, for example, and might also prefer writing it like that to avoid the next problem.
2) It conveys Northern Yiddish pronunciation, which is 1) far less popular today than Southern Yiddish - albeit still spoken and used; 2) has markedly different pronunciations of the vowels than Southern Yiddish. These two reasons make the article's use of YIVO orthography confusing for someone trying to understand Southern Yiddish.
While using the YIVO standard is necessary (on the converse, for someone trying to read older secular Yiddish works, the YIVO orthography is great), maybe the other pronunciations should be noted alongside it.
That being the case, how would we transcribe Southern Yiddish? The vowels that appear are not easily conveyed in Latin script, especially if one wants to note the allophony found in the dialect.
As an aside, maybe we should add a section explaining the vowels in both Northern and Southern Yiddish, because they can be confusing also.
![]() | This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||
|
Does anyone out there speak Yiddish and can verify something? This article says some verbs form the past tense by using "hobn," while others form it by using "zayn," and that there is no way to know which ones use which, it is arbitrary. This seems odd, if Yiddish is a dialect of German, it would be very predictable: In German (as in old English) the past tense of transitive verbs uses "habben" while that of intransitive verbs uses "sein." This is very predictable and regular. If the verb can take an object, it is transitive "eat," because you eat and apple, the apple is the direct object. But "sleep" has no direct object, you don't do sleep to anything. Other examples would be "hit," you hit a ball, but "wake up" has no object, same for "go," etc. I imagine that Yiddish must be the same. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Nealmcgrath ( talk • contribs) 01:37, 6 March 2010 (UTC)
how do you form the future tense?
Certain verbs will take האָבן 'hobn', while others will take זײַן 'zayn'. There is no way to tell which verbs take which auxiliary.
I would tend to disagree, and instead say that the choice of auxiliary is based on unaccusativity, as it is in German. If no conversation is started on the topic after several weeks, I'll just write up a small explanation on it; I'm interested to hear any thoughts on this though.
— Firespeaker 08:57, 2 January 2006 (UTC)
I would suggest (and make myself if I had the time presently) changes to this article based on current spoken Yiddish in the Charedi sector, which is much less inflected (as detailed in Jacobs 2006, Yiddish: A Linguistic Introduction). Der/dos/di are not distinguished in many cases. That is, if this article is meant to be descriptive and not prescriptive, which I think is a fair goal for an encyclopedia article. Zackary Sholem Berger 17:04, 25 August 2006 (UTC)
It says that "It differs from German in not having a genitive case, and in the dative plural, where German uses den.".
But according to the table, it also differs in the accusative masculine definite article, because the accusative masculine definite article in German is "den" while in Yiddish it is "dem".
Is it like that? Can you fix it? Is the table correct?
Is it true that this article only covers the grammar of Eastern Yiddish (or actually a particular Eastern Yiddish dialect)? I don't know very much about Yiddish dialectology, but I find it hard to believe that there should be so few dialect differences, especially between Eastern and Western Yiddish dialects. There is indeed a short section mentioning dialectal differences, but it doesn't even make clear what the dialect described here is. -- Florian Blaschke ( talk) 02:52, 26 March 2015 (UTC)
I just want to clarify that עטס/ענק (ets/eynk) is *not* formal and is just the second person plural informal, not formal. Also, not sure how to add it to the imperative, but basically in the imperative, עטס conjugation is the same as in the regular form, so עטס קויפטס ווײַן - you (all) buy wine, קויפטס ווײַן! - buy wine! — Preceding
unsigned comment added by
69.119.212.211 (
talk)
16:09, 4 August 2020 (UTC)
The section on plural nouns says "Nouns built on the diminutive suffixes -l and -ele form the plural in -ekh". It classifies this as an irregular plural. Why is this fully determinable rule less regular than the -s ending for nouns ending in an unstressed vowel? Largoplazo ( talk) 15:25, 29 May 2022 (UTC)
This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 22 August 2022 and 1 December 2022. Further details are available
on the course page. Student editor(s):
SPLL,
Bguti2,
Llill2,
Wsehwail (
article contribs). Peer reviewers:
Dquin3,
Zohaib Alvi,
Ivanatheslayer,
Liannp,
Iur444.
— Assignment last updated by UICLing ( talk) 10:56, 20 October 2022 (UTC)
Students: Respond to your peer feedback by posting what changes you will make and what should be made to the article based on your peers' suggestions. Click "reply" below to respond. @ SPLL, @ Bguti2, @ Llill2, @ Wsehwail UICLing ( talk) 16:32, 1 November 2022 (UTC)
BS"D
While the use of YIVO orthography and pronunciation is standard, it is a bit flawed on two parts:
1) It spells Hebrew loans as pronounced, which can be confusing. Native speakers (and many non-ones) normally approach the language with some knowledge of Hebrew, and when hearing a word like Shabbs Kawydesh, understand it to mean Shabbos Kodesh, for example, and might also prefer writing it like that to avoid the next problem.
2) It conveys Northern Yiddish pronunciation, which is 1) far less popular today than Southern Yiddish - albeit still spoken and used; 2) has markedly different pronunciations of the vowels than Southern Yiddish. These two reasons make the article's use of YIVO orthography confusing for someone trying to understand Southern Yiddish.
While using the YIVO standard is necessary (on the converse, for someone trying to read older secular Yiddish works, the YIVO orthography is great), maybe the other pronunciations should be noted alongside it.
That being the case, how would we transcribe Southern Yiddish? The vowels that appear are not easily conveyed in Latin script, especially if one wants to note the allophony found in the dialect.
As an aside, maybe we should add a section explaining the vowels in both Northern and Southern Yiddish, because they can be confusing also.