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To say that Yiddish was merely tolerated in the Soviet Union is certainly misleading. In fact, during the 1920s and 1930s, Yiddish flourished like never before. More books and theater appeared in Yiddish than in any other time in history, and Yiddish was granted the status of an official language in the Byelorussian SSR, as well as in Birobidzhan. That is hardly just "tolerated." Danny 08:47, 24 Jan 2004 (UTC)
Anyway, before 1937, Soviet Union was the multi-cultural country, that gradually slided into Russian communist chauvinism. Yet, Jews that served for Stalin, were always welcomed especially during WW2, untill 1953, when Stalin decided, that he should eliminate them in exactly the same way, as he eliminated all others his comrades. Cautious 16:01, 3 Feb 2004 (UTC)
It is nonsense to describe Jews as "non-Jewish" or anti-Semitic - Jewish Communists strongly opposed anti-Semitism. what you mean is that they were atheists and anti-Zionists Adam Carr
A History of the Jews by Paul Johnson, 1st ed. p.450: "they hated their Jewishness... such non-Jewish Jews were prominent in every revolutionary party... Rosa Luxemburg... Bela Kun... Kurt Eisner... Trotsky" I don't see him mentioning Kaganovich. Unfortunately, the history is full of non-Jewish and anti-Jewish Jews who comply with every definintion of A-S. The fact that their origin is Jewish, doesn't absolve them. Just as an American can be an anti-american, nobody can prevent a Jew to be an A-S. It doesn't make much sense to me either, but let's not deny their existence. Humus sapiens 11:47, 24 Jan 2004 (UTC)
I am very familiar with Paul Johnson, and also with the people he describes as "non-Jewish Jews." What he means is that they were atheists, anti-Zionists and anti traditional Jewish culture. That doesn't make them not Jews, either in their own estimation or according to Jewish law. The Jewish Bolsheviks (along with Bolsheviks in general) opposed anti-Semitism and indeed banned it. You can accuse them of a lot of things but it is silly and unjust to call them anti-Semites. It is like calling Lenin anti-Russian because he was opposed to Czarism and Russian Orthodoxy. The term "non-Jewish Jew" is a contradiction in terms and only serves to confuse people. You have to remember that Johnson is writing a conservative polemic and is trying to posit a "genuine" (ie traditional) Jewishness against a "false" (secular/radical) Jewishness as part of his general political agenda. (And I dispute that an American can be anti-American, as opposed to anti-American-government or anti-imperialist or anti-capitalist.) Adam 12:00, 24 Jan 2004 (UTC)
Did I say anti-semitism didn't exist? Do you think I am completely stupid? Native Americans can of course be anti-American, provided they define themselves as not being American, which they are entitled to do. Adam 11:04, 26 Jan 2004 (UTC)
I removed the following piece I moved previously here from other place in wikipedia.
This is hardly relevant, since the goal of Yevsektsiya was not struggle with anti-Semitism, but struggle with Jewish "borgeois nationalism" and Judaism Mikkalai 21:06, 3 Feb 2004 (UTC)
I am not sure that the sentence about "spies and enemies" should be there "as is". It doesn't pertain specifically to Jews. That was the whole idea of "proletary internationalism": there is no such thing as "home nation" for proletariat. By spying against their own country a proletary brings the world revolution closer. So I'd suggest you to add something along this line, otherwise singling out Jews in this respect can be perceived as anti-Semitic. Mikkalai 17:40, 4 Feb 2004 (UTC)
It was easier to appeal to Jews, since they were minorities and therefore were easily influenced by empty promise of equality. Yevsektsia was speciafically for Jews. Polish section of Komintern had a task of overthrow Polish governement, for example. Cautious 09:17, 5 Feb 2004 (UTC)
I agree with what Mikkalai wrote and move this to talk: Many Jews shared the believe, that there are 2 promise lands for them: USA and Soviet Union. This manipulation further alienated them from the people of their origins, by encouraging them to become spies and enemies of their homelands.
Any proof of this "theory", as well as international efforts of Yevsektsia? (I left that phrase in the article for now). There is only one promised land for Jewish people. Humus sapiens 22:52, 12 Feb 2004 (UTC)
90% of the material in the article doesn't discuss Yeksektsiya, but a general discussion on Soviet-Zionist relations and on the situation of Jews in the Soviet Union (which has separate articles). The text needs to be streamlined, and focus should be on the organization in question, not the Soviet Jewish community in general. Also there a distinct POV-pushing, in interpreting the intentions of the organization. -- Soman 12:27, 12 January 2007 (UTC)
Is there a particular reason there is an uncollapsed navbox at the very top of the page? Is it there for a particular reason? If not, it should be moved to the appropriate place at the bottom of the page.
RedSoxFan274
(leave a message
~contribs)
08:54, 16 February 2012 (UTC)
Hi all. I've come from the article Antisemitism in the Soviet Union. That article also uses Levin as a source. The original text from The Jews in the Soviet Union since 1917 is very different from what is stated in this article. Here's what Levin wrote:
3.1 First Conference of the Evsektsiya, Moscow, October 1918. YIVO.
The Sections were intended to be part of the Communist Party, but generally party members did not recognize their special legitimacy or that of Evkom. They were simply a cog in the party apparatus. Some Sections were even attacked for their "nationalistic deviations" 35 at a time when the party was liquidating the autonomous nationality Sections in the areas liberated from German rule (Belorussia, Lithuania, and Latvia) and transforming them into territorial Communist parties. Since Soviet Jews lacked a territorial base and since there was no territory with a Jewish majority, no Jewish territorial party was formed. To many ardent party members, the existence of Jewish Sections seemed anomalous a needless problem and a nuisance.
While the Jewish Sections were struggling to define themselves, recruit new personnel, and bring the Communist message to "the Jewish street," the Bund and socialist Zionists were undergoing severe internal crises and external pressures which eventually destroyed their unity and independence.36 Their breakdown gave the Evsektsiya control over Jewish communities and cleared the way for the destruction of traditional Jewish life, the Zionist movement, and Hebrew culture.
This current text is so bad that I'm going to be bold and just remove it. Stix1776 ( talk) 14:31, 27 October 2023 (UTC)
This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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To say that Yiddish was merely tolerated in the Soviet Union is certainly misleading. In fact, during the 1920s and 1930s, Yiddish flourished like never before. More books and theater appeared in Yiddish than in any other time in history, and Yiddish was granted the status of an official language in the Byelorussian SSR, as well as in Birobidzhan. That is hardly just "tolerated." Danny 08:47, 24 Jan 2004 (UTC)
Anyway, before 1937, Soviet Union was the multi-cultural country, that gradually slided into Russian communist chauvinism. Yet, Jews that served for Stalin, were always welcomed especially during WW2, untill 1953, when Stalin decided, that he should eliminate them in exactly the same way, as he eliminated all others his comrades. Cautious 16:01, 3 Feb 2004 (UTC)
It is nonsense to describe Jews as "non-Jewish" or anti-Semitic - Jewish Communists strongly opposed anti-Semitism. what you mean is that they were atheists and anti-Zionists Adam Carr
A History of the Jews by Paul Johnson, 1st ed. p.450: "they hated their Jewishness... such non-Jewish Jews were prominent in every revolutionary party... Rosa Luxemburg... Bela Kun... Kurt Eisner... Trotsky" I don't see him mentioning Kaganovich. Unfortunately, the history is full of non-Jewish and anti-Jewish Jews who comply with every definintion of A-S. The fact that their origin is Jewish, doesn't absolve them. Just as an American can be an anti-american, nobody can prevent a Jew to be an A-S. It doesn't make much sense to me either, but let's not deny their existence. Humus sapiens 11:47, 24 Jan 2004 (UTC)
I am very familiar with Paul Johnson, and also with the people he describes as "non-Jewish Jews." What he means is that they were atheists, anti-Zionists and anti traditional Jewish culture. That doesn't make them not Jews, either in their own estimation or according to Jewish law. The Jewish Bolsheviks (along with Bolsheviks in general) opposed anti-Semitism and indeed banned it. You can accuse them of a lot of things but it is silly and unjust to call them anti-Semites. It is like calling Lenin anti-Russian because he was opposed to Czarism and Russian Orthodoxy. The term "non-Jewish Jew" is a contradiction in terms and only serves to confuse people. You have to remember that Johnson is writing a conservative polemic and is trying to posit a "genuine" (ie traditional) Jewishness against a "false" (secular/radical) Jewishness as part of his general political agenda. (And I dispute that an American can be anti-American, as opposed to anti-American-government or anti-imperialist or anti-capitalist.) Adam 12:00, 24 Jan 2004 (UTC)
Did I say anti-semitism didn't exist? Do you think I am completely stupid? Native Americans can of course be anti-American, provided they define themselves as not being American, which they are entitled to do. Adam 11:04, 26 Jan 2004 (UTC)
I removed the following piece I moved previously here from other place in wikipedia.
This is hardly relevant, since the goal of Yevsektsiya was not struggle with anti-Semitism, but struggle with Jewish "borgeois nationalism" and Judaism Mikkalai 21:06, 3 Feb 2004 (UTC)
I am not sure that the sentence about "spies and enemies" should be there "as is". It doesn't pertain specifically to Jews. That was the whole idea of "proletary internationalism": there is no such thing as "home nation" for proletariat. By spying against their own country a proletary brings the world revolution closer. So I'd suggest you to add something along this line, otherwise singling out Jews in this respect can be perceived as anti-Semitic. Mikkalai 17:40, 4 Feb 2004 (UTC)
It was easier to appeal to Jews, since they were minorities and therefore were easily influenced by empty promise of equality. Yevsektsia was speciafically for Jews. Polish section of Komintern had a task of overthrow Polish governement, for example. Cautious 09:17, 5 Feb 2004 (UTC)
I agree with what Mikkalai wrote and move this to talk: Many Jews shared the believe, that there are 2 promise lands for them: USA and Soviet Union. This manipulation further alienated them from the people of their origins, by encouraging them to become spies and enemies of their homelands.
Any proof of this "theory", as well as international efforts of Yevsektsia? (I left that phrase in the article for now). There is only one promised land for Jewish people. Humus sapiens 22:52, 12 Feb 2004 (UTC)
90% of the material in the article doesn't discuss Yeksektsiya, but a general discussion on Soviet-Zionist relations and on the situation of Jews in the Soviet Union (which has separate articles). The text needs to be streamlined, and focus should be on the organization in question, not the Soviet Jewish community in general. Also there a distinct POV-pushing, in interpreting the intentions of the organization. -- Soman 12:27, 12 January 2007 (UTC)
Is there a particular reason there is an uncollapsed navbox at the very top of the page? Is it there for a particular reason? If not, it should be moved to the appropriate place at the bottom of the page.
RedSoxFan274
(leave a message
~contribs)
08:54, 16 February 2012 (UTC)
Hi all. I've come from the article Antisemitism in the Soviet Union. That article also uses Levin as a source. The original text from The Jews in the Soviet Union since 1917 is very different from what is stated in this article. Here's what Levin wrote:
3.1 First Conference of the Evsektsiya, Moscow, October 1918. YIVO.
The Sections were intended to be part of the Communist Party, but generally party members did not recognize their special legitimacy or that of Evkom. They were simply a cog in the party apparatus. Some Sections were even attacked for their "nationalistic deviations" 35 at a time when the party was liquidating the autonomous nationality Sections in the areas liberated from German rule (Belorussia, Lithuania, and Latvia) and transforming them into territorial Communist parties. Since Soviet Jews lacked a territorial base and since there was no territory with a Jewish majority, no Jewish territorial party was formed. To many ardent party members, the existence of Jewish Sections seemed anomalous a needless problem and a nuisance.
While the Jewish Sections were struggling to define themselves, recruit new personnel, and bring the Communist message to "the Jewish street," the Bund and socialist Zionists were undergoing severe internal crises and external pressures which eventually destroyed their unity and independence.36 Their breakdown gave the Evsektsiya control over Jewish communities and cleared the way for the destruction of traditional Jewish life, the Zionist movement, and Hebrew culture.
This current text is so bad that I'm going to be bold and just remove it. Stix1776 ( talk) 14:31, 27 October 2023 (UTC)