 | This page was proposed for deletion by Onel5969 ( talk · contribs) on 29 January 2022. |
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 | On 29 January 2022, it was proposed that this article be moved from Enough! The Word Belongs To The People! to Yeter! Söz Milletindir!. The result of the discussion was moved. |
- The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
The result of the move request was: No consensus to move after relist. ( non-admin closure) ( t · c) buidhe 10:14, 30 November 2021 (UTC)
Enough! The Word Belongs To The People! →
Yeter! Söz Milletindir! – Recently created article on a slogan in Turkish politics. I find half a dozen English-language sources talking about it on Google Books, and they all have slightly-different English translations. There is no common name in English and we should use the actual (Turkish-language) slogan as the article title.
User:力 (powera,
π,
ν) 21:36, 13 November 2021 (UTC) — Relisting.
Extraordinary Writ (
talk) 01:04, 21 November 2021 (UTC)
- Some translations: "Enough! People have the word", "Enough, the nation has the word", "Enough, the people have the say", "Enough! It's the people's turn to speak". User:力 (powera, π, ν) 21:36, 13 November 2021 (UTC)
- Oppose per WP:UE: "If there is no established English-language treatment for a name, translate it if this can be done without loss of accuracy and with greater understanding for the English-speaking reader." 162 etc. ( talk) 17:50, 14 November 2021 (UTC)
- I have posted at Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Turkey#Enough!_The_Word_Belongs_To_The_People! about this RM, primarily in hopes that someone will comment on the English translation. User:力 (powera, π, ν) 01:07, 21 November 2021 (UTC)
- Support. Not commonly translated and doesn't need to be. A foreign-language slogan. UE does not mandate slavish translation of absolutely everything. For instance, we could very easily translate Liberté, égalité, fraternité "without loss of accuracy and with greater understanding for the English-speaking reader", but we don't, because to do so would be unnecessary and, dare I say it, showing ignorance. -- Necrothesp ( talk) 14:57, 24 November 2021 (UTC)
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
- The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
The result of the move request was: moved. ( closed by non-admin page mover) Jack Frost ( talk) 00:49, 6 February 2022 (UTC)
Enough! The Word Belongs To The People! → Yeter! Söz Milletindir! – I was about to perform what I saw as an obvious bold move to the Turkish title when I saw the discussion above. I have had the same frustrating experience as User:力, finding a different translation into English in each source, and I imagine that the recent deletion proposer searched for this title in English and found very little. The title is a proper name, and translating it into English has been shown to cause confusion, so it should not be done. Phil Bridger ( talk) 16:05, 29 January 2022 (UTC)
- Pinging 162 etc. and Necrothesp, as my ping of the original proposer above could be misconstrued as canvassing. Phil Bridger ( talk) 16:09, 29 January 2022 (UTC)
- Oppose as per above.
WP:THREEOUTCOMES usually advises to wait at least three months to re-open discussions.
162 etc. (
talk) 16:45, 29 January 2022 (UTC)
- I do not believe that this translation provides greater understanding for the English-speaking reader, and have explained why above. Also WP:THREEOUTCOMES says, "successful move re-requests generally, though certainly not always, take place at least three months after the previous one." I have also explained why this falls into the "certainly not always" category. Phil Bridger ( talk) 17:27, 29 January 2022 (UTC)
- Support as in the RM above. WP:UE does not mandate slavish translation of titles that are not generally seen in translation. Given only three editors contributed to the previous discussion, I don't think there's a problem with relisting. It was hardly a comprehensive and wide-ranging discussion. -- Necrothesp ( talk) 08:14, 31 January 2022 (UTC)
- Support. WP:UE favors titles that are both accurate and clear, and the proliferation of translations shows that there's no real way to strike that balance in English. The more literal possibilities (e.g. "Enough! The Word Belongs To The Nation!) are very difficult to understand, while the looser renderings (e.g. "Enough Is Enough! It's The People's Turn To Speak!) require a "loss of accuracy". In such cases, I think presenting the reader with the original Turkish name (accompanied by appropriate translations in the body) is the best option. Extraordinary Writ ( talk) 04:27, 3 February 2022 (UTC)
- Support. There seems no justification for any one translated title, so best to have have redirects from all of the various English translations. And obviously agree that this relisting was constructive. (And also within guidelines. It happens and it is so much help to admins when others read them too and respect them.) Andrewa ( talk) 17:14, 5 February 2022 (UTC)
- Support per above. User:力 (powera, π, ν) 23:42, 5 February 2022 (UTC)
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
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| This page was proposed for deletion by Onel5969 ( talk · contribs) on 29 January 2022. |
|
| This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||
| |||||||||||||||||||||
| On 29 January 2022, it was proposed that this article be moved from Enough! The Word Belongs To The People! to Yeter! Söz Milletindir!. The result of the discussion was moved. |
- The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
The result of the move request was: No consensus to move after relist. ( non-admin closure) ( t · c) buidhe 10:14, 30 November 2021 (UTC)
Enough! The Word Belongs To The People! →
Yeter! Söz Milletindir! – Recently created article on a slogan in Turkish politics. I find half a dozen English-language sources talking about it on Google Books, and they all have slightly-different English translations. There is no common name in English and we should use the actual (Turkish-language) slogan as the article title.
User:力 (powera,
π,
ν) 21:36, 13 November 2021 (UTC) — Relisting.
Extraordinary Writ (
talk) 01:04, 21 November 2021 (UTC)
- Some translations: "Enough! People have the word", "Enough, the nation has the word", "Enough, the people have the say", "Enough! It's the people's turn to speak". User:力 (powera, π, ν) 21:36, 13 November 2021 (UTC)
- Oppose per WP:UE: "If there is no established English-language treatment for a name, translate it if this can be done without loss of accuracy and with greater understanding for the English-speaking reader." 162 etc. ( talk) 17:50, 14 November 2021 (UTC)
- I have posted at Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Turkey#Enough!_The_Word_Belongs_To_The_People! about this RM, primarily in hopes that someone will comment on the English translation. User:力 (powera, π, ν) 01:07, 21 November 2021 (UTC)
- Support. Not commonly translated and doesn't need to be. A foreign-language slogan. UE does not mandate slavish translation of absolutely everything. For instance, we could very easily translate Liberté, égalité, fraternité "without loss of accuracy and with greater understanding for the English-speaking reader", but we don't, because to do so would be unnecessary and, dare I say it, showing ignorance. -- Necrothesp ( talk) 14:57, 24 November 2021 (UTC)
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
- The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
The result of the move request was: moved. ( closed by non-admin page mover) Jack Frost ( talk) 00:49, 6 February 2022 (UTC)
Enough! The Word Belongs To The People! → Yeter! Söz Milletindir! – I was about to perform what I saw as an obvious bold move to the Turkish title when I saw the discussion above. I have had the same frustrating experience as User:力, finding a different translation into English in each source, and I imagine that the recent deletion proposer searched for this title in English and found very little. The title is a proper name, and translating it into English has been shown to cause confusion, so it should not be done. Phil Bridger ( talk) 16:05, 29 January 2022 (UTC)
- Pinging 162 etc. and Necrothesp, as my ping of the original proposer above could be misconstrued as canvassing. Phil Bridger ( talk) 16:09, 29 January 2022 (UTC)
- Oppose as per above.
WP:THREEOUTCOMES usually advises to wait at least three months to re-open discussions.
162 etc. (
talk) 16:45, 29 January 2022 (UTC)
- I do not believe that this translation provides greater understanding for the English-speaking reader, and have explained why above. Also WP:THREEOUTCOMES says, "successful move re-requests generally, though certainly not always, take place at least three months after the previous one." I have also explained why this falls into the "certainly not always" category. Phil Bridger ( talk) 17:27, 29 January 2022 (UTC)
- Support as in the RM above. WP:UE does not mandate slavish translation of titles that are not generally seen in translation. Given only three editors contributed to the previous discussion, I don't think there's a problem with relisting. It was hardly a comprehensive and wide-ranging discussion. -- Necrothesp ( talk) 08:14, 31 January 2022 (UTC)
- Support. WP:UE favors titles that are both accurate and clear, and the proliferation of translations shows that there's no real way to strike that balance in English. The more literal possibilities (e.g. "Enough! The Word Belongs To The Nation!) are very difficult to understand, while the looser renderings (e.g. "Enough Is Enough! It's The People's Turn To Speak!) require a "loss of accuracy". In such cases, I think presenting the reader with the original Turkish name (accompanied by appropriate translations in the body) is the best option. Extraordinary Writ ( talk) 04:27, 3 February 2022 (UTC)
- Support. There seems no justification for any one translated title, so best to have have redirects from all of the various English translations. And obviously agree that this relisting was constructive. (And also within guidelines. It happens and it is so much help to admins when others read them too and respect them.) Andrewa ( talk) 17:14, 5 February 2022 (UTC)
- Support per above. User:力 (powera, π, ν) 23:42, 5 February 2022 (UTC)
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.