This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | Archive 2 |
Yeon-mi Park recognizes that as a defector living under capitalism, this has utility, can be monetized, which she is exploiting, obviously and disturbingly, for self-benefit. She redirected her lies and commentary towards domestic concerns of the United States in apparent service to her paymasters. Yeon-mi Park cannot, in any sense, calling her a "human rights activist" when she can call herself a conservative political commentator. https://www.foxnews.com/us/north-korean-defector-ivy-league-nuts
Is there any evidence Yeon-mi Park's father was not arrested and imprisoned not simply for illegal trading but embezzlement? How did the elder Park acquire the copper, silver, and nickel he sold, the trade of which was the apparent cause of his arrest? https://unchainedpodcast.com/yeonmi-park-on-why-doing-business-with-north-korea-is-like-buying-a-ticket-to-a-concentration-camp/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by 100.36.1.58 ( talk) 22:33, 14 June 2021 (UTC)
Online, I see e.g.,
Some of that is very recent, some of it is older; at first glance, it seems to come from generally reliable sources, and I don't see much of it covered in the article. Wtmitchell (talk) (earlier Boracay Bill) 11:17, 16 June 2021 (UTC)
Park having a
right-leaning political opinion is not a reason for removing her human rights activism. She has worked with
Liberty in North Korea and advocating for human rights in places such as North Korea, China, and
North Koreans in South Korea. Furthermore, she has made a video addressing the lies she had been accused of in January this year. Some details, such as her father's death, might be different in the book from her speech at her One Young World speech in 2014. It is something she addresses in her Let's Talk about the Lies Livestream. Another simple explanation is that phycological trauma, e.g., rape, famine, public executions, etc., can affect you and make you make those kinds of mistakes and details such as her father's burial.--
Los Perros pueden Cocinar (
talk) 19:05, 16 June 2021 (UTC)
I agree; I’ve also read that the person trying to empathize with the narrative of her being a political commentator also compared her to people like Ben Shapiro and Candace Owens and justified the political commentator narrative by that means. I believe the person wanting to make this page political is just trying to portray her as a liar and discredit her claims because of an article made in The Diplomat. I don’t think that this intention is primarily to smear her reputation because she said something political. Los Perros pueden Cocinar ( talk) 12:35, 18 June 2021 (UTC)
The idea that you can't be right-wing and an "activist" is simply Marxist dribble. She opposes human rights abuses in a left-wing dictatorship for one, campaigns for freedom of expression in the west (another human right) and so on. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.142.22.86 ( talk) 13:27, 27 June 2021 (UTC)
Park has been attacked and robbed by three black women, and the white bystanders prevented her from calling the police yesterday. The question is did the black women attack her for her podcasts that put them in somewhat the negative light, or were they Trump supporters buying into their "China/Wuhan Virus?" - talk, 07 August 2021
In the "Political Views" section, the robbery story begins with "In the summer of 2020, during the George Floyd protests in Chicago". The source link however makes no mention of the protests, and readers may potentially draw a connection between the protests, which were in regard to police treatment of African-Americans, and the three alleged African-American attackers, which would be a correlation that the source link does not support. Dogface07 ( talk) 09:32, 29 November 2021 (UTC)
I have been thinking about getting into wikipedia editing for awhile. I just finished reading Yeonmi’s book. It is very non-credible, which is unfortunately sometimes a problem among celebrity defectors due to lack of general - and particularly mainstream - knowledge outside North Korea about the country. Although this article includes, some note of her “controversy,” I believe making this more central and definitively phrased would improve the accuracy of this article. I would like to request advice on how to edit this page as I have never edited Wikipedia before. I understand any edits I will hold up on the quality of evidence provided, but I need some general pointers. My questions are as follows:
1) What is a good way to restructure the page to centralize the fact that her story lacks credibility? Should there be more mention in the intro? Separate controversy section? More commentary throughout? Etc? Is there a relevant sample someone could link for me to template around?
2) I gather from a previous thread that this topic is politicized due to her conservatism in America. I don’t really care and want to edit due to being interested in and well read about North Korea. However, reading up on her briefly online, I came across her saying bystanders stopped her from calling the cops on black thieves, since that would be racist. Admittedly I have not read deeply into this, and am more using this as an example, but this story seems suspect, particularly given her seeming propensity to lie. A bit like if an MSNBC host claimed a Trump supporter shouting “Sieg Hiel” jumped out of the bushes and attacked them. I will do more research, as this may be an improbable story that actually happened, but my question is whether adding comments about this or other events in America I may come across will call my future edits about her pre-America autobiographical claims into doubt in the eyes of people who can reverse my edits? Because in that case, I would rather just only talk about her claims about her time in North Korea/China and avoid any American.
3) Better to focus on a few key things in-depth or sort of laundry list a bunch of things? Also, how much should I aim to write to add to a story of this size? Quite a long essay I believe could be added on her falsehoods, but I recognize wikipedia is for summary and I am worried about sections being unbalanced in length. How much should I aim to add to an article of this length/importance?
Sorry if this is extra? I have no idea how any of this works. All help appreciated. Ax94d$ ( talk) 05:27, 20 November 2021 (UTC)
Regarding this revert I made, there is no reason to readd the paragraph because the point it is making is already covered in the article with reliable sources, and the existing coverage does not contain weasel words. Under the "Activism and critical reception" section:
CentreLeftRight ✉ 19:36, 27 January 2022 (UTC)
This article is a completely one-sided fluff-piece for an individual who's only source of notability seems to be that she's being propped up by right wing media outlets with questionable reliability. I removed a section on her "political beliefs" which was just repeating Fox News talking points, but this entire article needs to be half this long and less one sided, provided the subject warrants an article at all.
Pinging @ JzG: and @ Snooganssnoogans: I believe this topic calls for your input. 46.97.170.225 ( talk) 13:19, 20 January 2022 (UTC)
This article is deeply disappointing. A quick Google search will reveal that she has been caught lying about her past on many occasions from credible news sources. https://thediplomat.com/2014/12/the-strange-tale-of-yeonmi-park/
As the article says, "But can the world rely on the memory of a 21 year old who left North Korea when she was thirteen? And what are the consequences if her memory has failed her and the picture she’s presenting of her life in North Korea and her escape to South Korea is not accurate?"
One of the problems with Wikipedia is when you get an enthusiastic minority to vote they can down-vote the truth and undo criticism. Please get some neutral moderators to fix the article and add some criticism of her, and stop undoing criticism. This Encylopedia deserves better than to just publish a liar's tall-tales without addressing a decade of criticism. 47.145.115.178 ( talk) 18:36, 16 February 2022 (UTC)
This article at times honestly feels as if it was written by Yeonmi Park herself, and there definitely seems to have somewhat of a more biased tone in favor of her. I feel like the "Criticism" category could be expanded upon and her political stances are not revealed until you read a small quote deep into the article where she criticizes "woke culture", just by doing a little bit of research it's obvious that she's a right-wing grifter, which, obviously wouldn't fit the standard for neutrality just by mentioning such, but there are sources which can be used to make it clearer on her beliefs. I feel like being more clear about the tone and uncertainty of her stories can be done or expanded upon. I'm going to link a few general sources that could be used to expand the article incase I feel like using them in the future, but anybody else is free to use them if they wish.
http://jooparkblog.blogspot.com/2014/12/yeonmi-park-defector-who-fooled-world.html
B3251 ( talk) 23:50, 20 April 2023 (UTC)
@ Jfsimon1981 I'm glad you're trying to contribute to the page but by changing so many details in the Veracity of claims without checking to see if they were backed by the sources cited, you have ruined hours of work.
For example, look at this version: https://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Yeonmi_Park&diff=prev&oldid=1157606638
The source cited says 17 to 18 years in prison, yet you changed it to 9 to 10 years, despite that not being reflected in the source citing that paragraph. The History Wizard of Cambridge ( talk) 03:08, 30 May 2023 (UTC)
I deleted the "Crossing the entire Goby desert" allegation from the article. The author of the allegation clearly didn't read the book. There is nothing in the book about "entire Goby desert". The book describes the distance people had to walk with enough precision to show that it would, in fact, take one night of walking to get to the border. No need to include things in the article that are clearly false. 24.193.207.32 ( talk) 19:14, 10 August 2023 (UTC)
User @ Psalm84 is deleting large sections of the wiki critical of Yeonmi Park's stories, particularly her prominence as an internet meme following her interview with Joe Rogan. I would like to ask fellow editors for their opinions. Looking at Psalm84's profile it says they are a pro-life creationist, and their username and talk page suggests they are using Wikipedia to soapbox their religious faith, so I'm inclined to remove their changes to the Park wiki. The History Wizard of Cambridge ( talk) 03:39, 9 July 2023 (UTC)
Dang fighting and arguing on Wikipedia is crazy. Y all need to touch some grass — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.158.78.94 ( talk) 22:38, 25 August 2023 (UTC)
[1] Doug Weller talk 19:41, 17 July 2023 (UTC)
I have attempted some cleanup (flow, organization, extreme redundancy and repetition, many instances of original research and source-to-text integrity issues, but stopped because there is too much close paraphrasing from the Washington Post Sommers report, and the Diplomat 2014 report; we may as well just have plopped those entire articles in here, and it's more than I can fix. The entire Veracity of claims section needs review for too-close paraphrasing, verbosity, and redundancy. SandyGeorgia ( Talk) 03:03, 26 August 2023 (UTC)
Re her father's prison sentence, Park self-corrected to 11 years, her mother said 10, but we described it as "vastly" different. [2] Puffery needs to be checked throughout, and besides the redundant and repetitive writing, there are differences in word choices when describing the recollections of a child compared to others (eg, Park always claims, but North Korean records showed ... what makes them more credible? Let the facts speak for themselves-- Park says one thing, her mother says another. SandyGeorgia ( Talk) 15:16, 26 August 2023 (UTC)
There is too-close paraphrasing and outright copy-paste WP:COPYVIO everywhere in this article; it all needs to be checked. SandyGeorgia ( Talk) 09:44, 27 August 2023 (UTC)
This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | Archive 2 |
Yeon-mi Park recognizes that as a defector living under capitalism, this has utility, can be monetized, which she is exploiting, obviously and disturbingly, for self-benefit. She redirected her lies and commentary towards domestic concerns of the United States in apparent service to her paymasters. Yeon-mi Park cannot, in any sense, calling her a "human rights activist" when she can call herself a conservative political commentator. https://www.foxnews.com/us/north-korean-defector-ivy-league-nuts
Is there any evidence Yeon-mi Park's father was not arrested and imprisoned not simply for illegal trading but embezzlement? How did the elder Park acquire the copper, silver, and nickel he sold, the trade of which was the apparent cause of his arrest? https://unchainedpodcast.com/yeonmi-park-on-why-doing-business-with-north-korea-is-like-buying-a-ticket-to-a-concentration-camp/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by 100.36.1.58 ( talk) 22:33, 14 June 2021 (UTC)
Online, I see e.g.,
Some of that is very recent, some of it is older; at first glance, it seems to come from generally reliable sources, and I don't see much of it covered in the article. Wtmitchell (talk) (earlier Boracay Bill) 11:17, 16 June 2021 (UTC)
Park having a
right-leaning political opinion is not a reason for removing her human rights activism. She has worked with
Liberty in North Korea and advocating for human rights in places such as North Korea, China, and
North Koreans in South Korea. Furthermore, she has made a video addressing the lies she had been accused of in January this year. Some details, such as her father's death, might be different in the book from her speech at her One Young World speech in 2014. It is something she addresses in her Let's Talk about the Lies Livestream. Another simple explanation is that phycological trauma, e.g., rape, famine, public executions, etc., can affect you and make you make those kinds of mistakes and details such as her father's burial.--
Los Perros pueden Cocinar (
talk) 19:05, 16 June 2021 (UTC)
I agree; I’ve also read that the person trying to empathize with the narrative of her being a political commentator also compared her to people like Ben Shapiro and Candace Owens and justified the political commentator narrative by that means. I believe the person wanting to make this page political is just trying to portray her as a liar and discredit her claims because of an article made in The Diplomat. I don’t think that this intention is primarily to smear her reputation because she said something political. Los Perros pueden Cocinar ( talk) 12:35, 18 June 2021 (UTC)
The idea that you can't be right-wing and an "activist" is simply Marxist dribble. She opposes human rights abuses in a left-wing dictatorship for one, campaigns for freedom of expression in the west (another human right) and so on. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.142.22.86 ( talk) 13:27, 27 June 2021 (UTC)
Park has been attacked and robbed by three black women, and the white bystanders prevented her from calling the police yesterday. The question is did the black women attack her for her podcasts that put them in somewhat the negative light, or were they Trump supporters buying into their "China/Wuhan Virus?" - talk, 07 August 2021
In the "Political Views" section, the robbery story begins with "In the summer of 2020, during the George Floyd protests in Chicago". The source link however makes no mention of the protests, and readers may potentially draw a connection between the protests, which were in regard to police treatment of African-Americans, and the three alleged African-American attackers, which would be a correlation that the source link does not support. Dogface07 ( talk) 09:32, 29 November 2021 (UTC)
I have been thinking about getting into wikipedia editing for awhile. I just finished reading Yeonmi’s book. It is very non-credible, which is unfortunately sometimes a problem among celebrity defectors due to lack of general - and particularly mainstream - knowledge outside North Korea about the country. Although this article includes, some note of her “controversy,” I believe making this more central and definitively phrased would improve the accuracy of this article. I would like to request advice on how to edit this page as I have never edited Wikipedia before. I understand any edits I will hold up on the quality of evidence provided, but I need some general pointers. My questions are as follows:
1) What is a good way to restructure the page to centralize the fact that her story lacks credibility? Should there be more mention in the intro? Separate controversy section? More commentary throughout? Etc? Is there a relevant sample someone could link for me to template around?
2) I gather from a previous thread that this topic is politicized due to her conservatism in America. I don’t really care and want to edit due to being interested in and well read about North Korea. However, reading up on her briefly online, I came across her saying bystanders stopped her from calling the cops on black thieves, since that would be racist. Admittedly I have not read deeply into this, and am more using this as an example, but this story seems suspect, particularly given her seeming propensity to lie. A bit like if an MSNBC host claimed a Trump supporter shouting “Sieg Hiel” jumped out of the bushes and attacked them. I will do more research, as this may be an improbable story that actually happened, but my question is whether adding comments about this or other events in America I may come across will call my future edits about her pre-America autobiographical claims into doubt in the eyes of people who can reverse my edits? Because in that case, I would rather just only talk about her claims about her time in North Korea/China and avoid any American.
3) Better to focus on a few key things in-depth or sort of laundry list a bunch of things? Also, how much should I aim to write to add to a story of this size? Quite a long essay I believe could be added on her falsehoods, but I recognize wikipedia is for summary and I am worried about sections being unbalanced in length. How much should I aim to add to an article of this length/importance?
Sorry if this is extra? I have no idea how any of this works. All help appreciated. Ax94d$ ( talk) 05:27, 20 November 2021 (UTC)
Regarding this revert I made, there is no reason to readd the paragraph because the point it is making is already covered in the article with reliable sources, and the existing coverage does not contain weasel words. Under the "Activism and critical reception" section:
CentreLeftRight ✉ 19:36, 27 January 2022 (UTC)
This article is a completely one-sided fluff-piece for an individual who's only source of notability seems to be that she's being propped up by right wing media outlets with questionable reliability. I removed a section on her "political beliefs" which was just repeating Fox News talking points, but this entire article needs to be half this long and less one sided, provided the subject warrants an article at all.
Pinging @ JzG: and @ Snooganssnoogans: I believe this topic calls for your input. 46.97.170.225 ( talk) 13:19, 20 January 2022 (UTC)
This article is deeply disappointing. A quick Google search will reveal that she has been caught lying about her past on many occasions from credible news sources. https://thediplomat.com/2014/12/the-strange-tale-of-yeonmi-park/
As the article says, "But can the world rely on the memory of a 21 year old who left North Korea when she was thirteen? And what are the consequences if her memory has failed her and the picture she’s presenting of her life in North Korea and her escape to South Korea is not accurate?"
One of the problems with Wikipedia is when you get an enthusiastic minority to vote they can down-vote the truth and undo criticism. Please get some neutral moderators to fix the article and add some criticism of her, and stop undoing criticism. This Encylopedia deserves better than to just publish a liar's tall-tales without addressing a decade of criticism. 47.145.115.178 ( talk) 18:36, 16 February 2022 (UTC)
This article at times honestly feels as if it was written by Yeonmi Park herself, and there definitely seems to have somewhat of a more biased tone in favor of her. I feel like the "Criticism" category could be expanded upon and her political stances are not revealed until you read a small quote deep into the article where she criticizes "woke culture", just by doing a little bit of research it's obvious that she's a right-wing grifter, which, obviously wouldn't fit the standard for neutrality just by mentioning such, but there are sources which can be used to make it clearer on her beliefs. I feel like being more clear about the tone and uncertainty of her stories can be done or expanded upon. I'm going to link a few general sources that could be used to expand the article incase I feel like using them in the future, but anybody else is free to use them if they wish.
http://jooparkblog.blogspot.com/2014/12/yeonmi-park-defector-who-fooled-world.html
B3251 ( talk) 23:50, 20 April 2023 (UTC)
@ Jfsimon1981 I'm glad you're trying to contribute to the page but by changing so many details in the Veracity of claims without checking to see if they were backed by the sources cited, you have ruined hours of work.
For example, look at this version: https://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Yeonmi_Park&diff=prev&oldid=1157606638
The source cited says 17 to 18 years in prison, yet you changed it to 9 to 10 years, despite that not being reflected in the source citing that paragraph. The History Wizard of Cambridge ( talk) 03:08, 30 May 2023 (UTC)
I deleted the "Crossing the entire Goby desert" allegation from the article. The author of the allegation clearly didn't read the book. There is nothing in the book about "entire Goby desert". The book describes the distance people had to walk with enough precision to show that it would, in fact, take one night of walking to get to the border. No need to include things in the article that are clearly false. 24.193.207.32 ( talk) 19:14, 10 August 2023 (UTC)
User @ Psalm84 is deleting large sections of the wiki critical of Yeonmi Park's stories, particularly her prominence as an internet meme following her interview with Joe Rogan. I would like to ask fellow editors for their opinions. Looking at Psalm84's profile it says they are a pro-life creationist, and their username and talk page suggests they are using Wikipedia to soapbox their religious faith, so I'm inclined to remove their changes to the Park wiki. The History Wizard of Cambridge ( talk) 03:39, 9 July 2023 (UTC)
Dang fighting and arguing on Wikipedia is crazy. Y all need to touch some grass — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.158.78.94 ( talk) 22:38, 25 August 2023 (UTC)
[1] Doug Weller talk 19:41, 17 July 2023 (UTC)
I have attempted some cleanup (flow, organization, extreme redundancy and repetition, many instances of original research and source-to-text integrity issues, but stopped because there is too much close paraphrasing from the Washington Post Sommers report, and the Diplomat 2014 report; we may as well just have plopped those entire articles in here, and it's more than I can fix. The entire Veracity of claims section needs review for too-close paraphrasing, verbosity, and redundancy. SandyGeorgia ( Talk) 03:03, 26 August 2023 (UTC)
Re her father's prison sentence, Park self-corrected to 11 years, her mother said 10, but we described it as "vastly" different. [2] Puffery needs to be checked throughout, and besides the redundant and repetitive writing, there are differences in word choices when describing the recollections of a child compared to others (eg, Park always claims, but North Korean records showed ... what makes them more credible? Let the facts speak for themselves-- Park says one thing, her mother says another. SandyGeorgia ( Talk) 15:16, 26 August 2023 (UTC)
There is too-close paraphrasing and outright copy-paste WP:COPYVIO everywhere in this article; it all needs to be checked. SandyGeorgia ( Talk) 09:44, 27 August 2023 (UTC)