This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Yellow journalism article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
Archives:
1Auto-archiving period: 90 days
![]() |
![]() | Yellow journalism was a good articles nominee, but did not meet the good article criteria at the time. There may be suggestions below for improving the article. Once these issues have been addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake. | |||||||||
|
![]() | This ![]() It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
This article states that historians, not mentioned by name, say in sources not listed that the newspapers at the time largely had no effect on public opinion in regards to the war. What percentage of historians exactly have this opinion? 100%? 99%? 50% 20%? It is not mentioned if there are any historians who feel otherwise. And none mentioned by name who do think so.
But let's just say for argument that 100% say so. Is it possible for a human to know whether someone living 100 years ago has his opinion influenced by what he read in a newspaper? No. But common sense says that since it is a scientific fact that today, human beings are indeed influenced by what they read and their minds do change based on what they read, that the same was true back then, even all the way back to cave paintings.
Then this article amazingly says that it was not the newspapers that swayed the opinions of the American people into war, it was the Cubans getting killed by the Spanish" that did it. How did Americans learn about the "killings?" NEWSPAPERS.
This whole article is gas lighting us to believe that media has no power to sway opinion and yellow journalism never motivated a single person to support a war, and if that is true it must be true today that no media has ever swayed the American people into war. All our wars were perfectly righteous and noble and definitely not Imperialism. Noam Chomsky's Manufacturing Consent is apparently just a lie and it's all in our heads. Classic gas lighting. Nothing to see here.
Then the most ridiculous thing of all is that this article refers to "historians" who say yellow journalism only existed within the city limits of New York City. So I guess there is a magic Wizzard that put a spiritual protective dome over New York City so that none of the yellow journalism ever got out and so much as crossed the Hudson River into Jersey City let alone the rest of the world. This is absurd and it doesn't matter if God himself says it, yellow journalism at it's core really just means "bad journalism with impure motives." They exaggerate and choose stories that may even be true, but they pick the stories to push the narrative and agenda they want. EVERY NEWSPAPER EVER HAS DONE AND DOES DO THIS. Period. It really has a lot to do with bias. And every human is biased, even me. Journalists and historians are notoriously biased and political.
Then a study is reported on 41 newspapers papers, 36 of which eventually supported the war. But the person who did the study twisted the explanation so much that it is offered as proof that yellow journalism only existed in New York and the American people had absolutely no contact or knowledge of pro war propaganda. Yet they somehow knew about the mass killings. But according to the actual numbers, 36 out of 41 newspapers eventually were pro war. This proves the opposite of what the Wiki contributors are trying to say.
Finally, just because "historians" say something doesn't mean you turn off your critical thinking skills and just numbly accept what they say.
Now queue the rabid badgers. Zengalileo ( talk) 06:27, 8 January 2023 (UTC)
I've added an explanation from the State Department's Office of the Historian to the page because it appears a much more convincing explanation than what is there. I haven't removed the paragraph about Wardman because that may well be the proximate explanation and I haven't read Campbell's somewhat older book. The Outcault story is of course repeated much further down the article. Chris55 ( talk) 18:27, 20 March 2023 (UTC)
Now both newspapers had their splash of yellow, and the new style of journalism with which both of the papers were associated became known as "yellow journalism".But that's rather indirect to claim the term was because of the comic character. Schazjmd (talk) 19:56, 21 March 2023 (UTC)
References
Hi @ DuncanHill, have you had a chance to review WP:Further Reading? It recommends keeping these sections short and recent and in reverse chronological order. Is there a reason I'm missing why maybe we should treat this article differently or maybe wait a little bit before doing the cleanup? Superb Owl ( talk) 21:31, 5 March 2024 (UTC)
Currently, the Definitions section starts with “W. Joseph Campbell described yellow press newspapers as [...]”, which reads like Campbell is commonly known. In that case, could the name become a hyperlink to a Wikipedia article about Campbell? (Looks like that article would need to be written first, or it could be a stub). However, if Campbell isn’t well-known enough to warrant an article, perhaps the paragraph should be changed. In its current form, the section is a little confusing. — Sascha ( talk) 06:44, 30 April 2024 (UTC)
I wrote a fresh lead that covers key points in the main text abou who, when, how, and why important. The old lead was pretty thin -- and had an irrelevant section of Checkbook journalism of the 21st century. That's is a different story entirely (and was not used by Pulitzer or Hearst and is not covered in the main text). Rjensen ( talk) 15:51, 30 April 2024 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Yellow journalism article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
Archives:
1Auto-archiving period: 90 days
![]() |
![]() | Yellow journalism was a good articles nominee, but did not meet the good article criteria at the time. There may be suggestions below for improving the article. Once these issues have been addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake. | |||||||||
|
![]() | This ![]() It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
This article states that historians, not mentioned by name, say in sources not listed that the newspapers at the time largely had no effect on public opinion in regards to the war. What percentage of historians exactly have this opinion? 100%? 99%? 50% 20%? It is not mentioned if there are any historians who feel otherwise. And none mentioned by name who do think so.
But let's just say for argument that 100% say so. Is it possible for a human to know whether someone living 100 years ago has his opinion influenced by what he read in a newspaper? No. But common sense says that since it is a scientific fact that today, human beings are indeed influenced by what they read and their minds do change based on what they read, that the same was true back then, even all the way back to cave paintings.
Then this article amazingly says that it was not the newspapers that swayed the opinions of the American people into war, it was the Cubans getting killed by the Spanish" that did it. How did Americans learn about the "killings?" NEWSPAPERS.
This whole article is gas lighting us to believe that media has no power to sway opinion and yellow journalism never motivated a single person to support a war, and if that is true it must be true today that no media has ever swayed the American people into war. All our wars were perfectly righteous and noble and definitely not Imperialism. Noam Chomsky's Manufacturing Consent is apparently just a lie and it's all in our heads. Classic gas lighting. Nothing to see here.
Then the most ridiculous thing of all is that this article refers to "historians" who say yellow journalism only existed within the city limits of New York City. So I guess there is a magic Wizzard that put a spiritual protective dome over New York City so that none of the yellow journalism ever got out and so much as crossed the Hudson River into Jersey City let alone the rest of the world. This is absurd and it doesn't matter if God himself says it, yellow journalism at it's core really just means "bad journalism with impure motives." They exaggerate and choose stories that may even be true, but they pick the stories to push the narrative and agenda they want. EVERY NEWSPAPER EVER HAS DONE AND DOES DO THIS. Period. It really has a lot to do with bias. And every human is biased, even me. Journalists and historians are notoriously biased and political.
Then a study is reported on 41 newspapers papers, 36 of which eventually supported the war. But the person who did the study twisted the explanation so much that it is offered as proof that yellow journalism only existed in New York and the American people had absolutely no contact or knowledge of pro war propaganda. Yet they somehow knew about the mass killings. But according to the actual numbers, 36 out of 41 newspapers eventually were pro war. This proves the opposite of what the Wiki contributors are trying to say.
Finally, just because "historians" say something doesn't mean you turn off your critical thinking skills and just numbly accept what they say.
Now queue the rabid badgers. Zengalileo ( talk) 06:27, 8 January 2023 (UTC)
I've added an explanation from the State Department's Office of the Historian to the page because it appears a much more convincing explanation than what is there. I haven't removed the paragraph about Wardman because that may well be the proximate explanation and I haven't read Campbell's somewhat older book. The Outcault story is of course repeated much further down the article. Chris55 ( talk) 18:27, 20 March 2023 (UTC)
Now both newspapers had their splash of yellow, and the new style of journalism with which both of the papers were associated became known as "yellow journalism".But that's rather indirect to claim the term was because of the comic character. Schazjmd (talk) 19:56, 21 March 2023 (UTC)
References
Hi @ DuncanHill, have you had a chance to review WP:Further Reading? It recommends keeping these sections short and recent and in reverse chronological order. Is there a reason I'm missing why maybe we should treat this article differently or maybe wait a little bit before doing the cleanup? Superb Owl ( talk) 21:31, 5 March 2024 (UTC)
Currently, the Definitions section starts with “W. Joseph Campbell described yellow press newspapers as [...]”, which reads like Campbell is commonly known. In that case, could the name become a hyperlink to a Wikipedia article about Campbell? (Looks like that article would need to be written first, or it could be a stub). However, if Campbell isn’t well-known enough to warrant an article, perhaps the paragraph should be changed. In its current form, the section is a little confusing. — Sascha ( talk) 06:44, 30 April 2024 (UTC)
I wrote a fresh lead that covers key points in the main text abou who, when, how, and why important. The old lead was pretty thin -- and had an irrelevant section of Checkbook journalism of the 21st century. That's is a different story entirely (and was not used by Pulitzer or Hearst and is not covered in the main text). Rjensen ( talk) 15:51, 30 April 2024 (UTC)