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http://www.aljazeera.com/cgi-bin/news_service/middle_east_full_story.asp?service_id=7608 Making any statement like this is always branded as Anti-Semitism while at best it is Anti-ZIonist (or simply the truth !). Now PLEASE change this Anti-Semitism crap about Islam !
We would like to get in touch with professor Bauer.
Could you send us his email address?
Thanks,
Mike Ebrani
The footnote buried at the bottom concernig the Wannsee Conference is interesting enough to be explained in the body of the article ( trying to tell the truth but burying it at the same time? ). Bauer says the Wannsee Protocols are not a plan for extermination - contrary to the wiki article on the Wannsee. I don't believe any reputable scholar agrees with wiki on this one. To connect Hitler with extermination Bauer etal then fall into guesses and mysticism - at least Bauer dispute Goldhagen ( he has some pride left).
There has been a dispute about content within The Holocaust's article, particularly regarding whether or not 'slaughter' is an appropriate word to use. I am involved in that dispute and my edits to the Yehuda Bauer article may therefore look like POV pushing. While that may appear true, I am using neutral language and citing the subject of the article; research already done should be put to use where applicable. — Parhamr 09:14, 22 July 2007 (UTC)
I was troubled by the sentence:
"Professor Bauer also believes that people must go to Yad Vashem to learn the right way of understanding the Holocaust."
It makes him sound intellectually totalitarian, perhaps some elaboration is in order? Also the following sentence (which I rewrote) ("Many others believe that complex historical events such as the Holocaust require a multiplicity of perspectives rather than a single orthodoxy, however well intentioned and enlightened it may be.") seems somewhat gratuitous and even mildly latently moralistic but I didn't want to delete it outright (lest I be accused of "censorship"). Historian932 ( talk) 06:24, 30 November 2009 (UTC)
About ten years ago I read an article or a brochure by Bauer on the rescue of most Danish Jews from deportation in Sep. 1943, after they had been warned by a German diplomat, Georg Ferdinand Duckwitz. This episode is correctly reported in the WP article on Duckwitz, himself an early member of the Nazi party. /info/en/?search=Georg_Ferdinand_Duckwitz Surprisingly Yehuda Bauer did not mention Duckwitz in his essay or brochure, without whose warning the rescue of the Danish Jews would in all likelihood not have taken place. Can anyone help me find this publication and explain to me why Duckwitz´ name was not mentioned? Ontologix ( talk) 02:14, 24 October 2013 (UTC)
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"Discussing Denial and Distortion of the Holocaust" While the International Holocaust Remembrance Alliance attempted to define Holocaust denial and distortion in 2013 ( https://www.holocaustremembrance.com/resources/working-definitions-charters/working-definition-holocaust-denial-and-distortion), Bauer points out a gap in the definition: namely, quantification of victims. A huge way in which denial manifests, he argues, is in underestimating Jewish fatalities, thus leading them to "conclude that 'the Jews' exaggerate their losses" ( https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/23739770.2020.1805916). Another key way in which the Holocaust's impact is diminished is by key antisemitic and right-wing intellectuals, who argue that Jews "invented the Holocaust for economic and political gain" ( https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/23739770.2020.1805916). While this claim is widely disputed in much of the 'Western' world, Bauer points out that Holocaust denial is engrained in much of radical Islam. This denial stems from promises by the Germans for liberation from Western dependency and manifests through denial in Islamic media outlets. Bauer points out, through his writing in the Israel Council on Foreign Relations ( /info/en/?search=Israel_Council_on_Foreign_Relations), that one form of denial outright denies the Holocaust and the other which supports ideas of destruction, outlined by the Holocaust. Polish denial, Bauer claims, is less focused on the fact that the Holocaust existed (which is commemorated widely in Poland), but is focused on denial of individual Polish responsibility in the Holocaust. Despite this denial, Poles consistently collaborated with villages and leaders alike to arrest and alert Germany of the presence of Jews. As such, Bauer hopes that the definition can be expanded to meet these needs and hopes that in doing so, other countries will take sufficient responsibility for their participation in the Shoah ( https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/23739770.2020.1805916). Mapelviewicecream ( talk) 11:52, 6 July 2021 (UTC)
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Change this: What the Nazis called the "Final Solution of the Jewish Question" was formalized at the Wannsee Conference on January 20, 1942.
To this: What the Nazis called the "Final Solution of the Jewish Question" is considered to have been formalized at the Wannsee Conference on January 20, 1942, although Bauer has rejected this view, calling it a "silly story".
Cite this 23 Jan 1992 article from Jewish Telegraphic Agency: https://www.jta.org/archive/nazi-scheme-not-born-at-wannsee-israeli-holocaust-scholar-claims
Cite The Canadian Jewish News 30 Jan 1992. The article is screenshotted here as Image 12 and claimed to be from that date, although I don't know if a better confirmation of the date is needed https://phdn.org/archives/holocaust-history.org/wannseeprotocol/index.html
Not sure if Wikipedia's characterization of the conference is at all warranted. From the link above ( THHP) - "Since the early 1960s at the latest, historians agree that no decision was taken at Wannsee and in countless books and articles published since, this overrated interpretation of Wannsee is addressed explicitly. [...] Bauer was far from the first scholar who has rejected the "Wannsee decision" - as already said, this was accepted by historians for decades." HonestManBad ( talk) 01:47, 20 January 2022 (UTC)
{{
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template.
ScottishFinnishRadish (
talk) 01:54, 20 January 2022 (UTC)
'What the Nazis called the "Final Solution of the Jewish Question" was formalized at the Wannsee Conference on January 20, 1942.'
This comes just after a passage describing Bauer's view which clashes with this. So... you state "Bauer believes X", then right after that you essentially state "X is false" as an established fact without noting the contradiction. Very strangely written.
I propose that the above sentence be changed to 'What the Nazis called the "Final Solution of the Jewish Question" is considered to have been formalized at the Wannsee Conference on January 20, 1942, although Bauer has rejected this view, calling it a "silly story".'
Cite this 23 Jan 1992 article from Jewish Telegraphic Agency.
Cite The Canadian Jewish News 30 Jan 1992. The article is screenshotted here by The Holocaust History Project (THHP) as Image 12 and claimed to be from that date.
I'm not sure if Wikipedia's characterization of the conference is at all warranted. From the THHP link above - "Since the early 1960s at the latest, historians agree that no decision was taken at Wannsee and in countless books and articles published since, this overrated interpretation of Wannsee is addressed explicitly. [...] Bauer was far from the first scholar who has rejected the "Wannsee decision" - as already said, this was accepted by historians for decades." HonestManBad ( talk) 10:59, 20 January 2022 (UTC)
Where does Himmler states his rejection of "the Bolshevik method of physical annihilation of a people out of inner conviction as un-German and impossible,"? He is not rejecting anything, he says he prefers emigration IF they decide not to physically exterminate them. "Cruel and tragic as every individual case may be, this method (emigration) is still the mildest and best one if, out of inner conviction, one rejects as un-German and impossible the Bolshevist method of physical extermination of a people." — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A00:CA8:A15:12BA:4AB:9488:349E:145D ( talk) 17:14, 14 February 2022 (UTC)
The claim is made in the Holocaust section that Professor Bauer believes "the Holocaust was the worst single case of genocide in history" but I have heard him explicitly denying this in a recent lecture to an audience of schoolteachers at Yad Vashem and available now on YouTube. There is no citation for the claim made in the article and I believe he probably never held such an opinion but if he did so he has certainly changed this opinion. There might be a confusion in the minds of some how Professor Bauer speaks of the uniqueness of the Jewish Holocaust but this is identical to the uniqueness of every case of genocide where the specificity of the victims' experience must be appreciated. Professor Bauer believes there to be no measure of the Jewish Holocaust event which can support the view that it was the worst single case of genocide in history. Someone needs to fix this serious error. SanVitores ( talk) 04:59, 25 August 2022 (UTC)
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There should be a space before "Bauer" in the sentence that begins "Bauer has criticized..." Kamtal75 ( talk) 09:02, 25 December 2022 (UTC)
謝謝! Kamtal75 ( talk) 00:15, 26 December 2022 (UTC)
A more up-to-date photo would be desirable here and in the articles in other languages. Mcljlm ( talk) 16:42, 5 April 2024 (UTC)
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Please remove from the introduction: "Bauer is a Bosnian genocide denier who has claimed that the Srebrenica massacre was an "act of mass murder, but not genocide".<ref>Ivica Bakota; (2019) Bosnia-Herzegovina social briefing: Bosnian genocide denial p. 4; ISSN 2560-1601 [1]"
This statement was recently added by another user, and is defamatory and inaccurate. Bauer does not deny the events that took place at Srebrenica, but rather discusses how the legal definition of genocide is applied to different instances of mass murder as part of his work (source: https://www.ushmm.org/m/pdfs/20070215-bauer.pdf). Furthermore, the Srebrenica massacre is not a central focus of Bauer's scholarship in any way, and should not be included in the first section of his article. A quick internet search will reveal that this change is primarily intended to slander Bauer, not to contribute to the body of knowledge in the article. Furthermore, looking at the history of the edits on the article, you will see that this information has never been previously phrased this way in the article, raising serious questions regarding its veracity. The source that is included to support this edit is also obscure and dubious, and is not a reputable academic source. 100.15.203.82 ( talk) 13:42, 3 June 2024 (UTC)
This article must adhere to the biographies of living persons (BLP) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially libellous. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to this noticeboard.If you are a subject of this article, or acting on behalf of one, and you need help, please see this help page. |
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http://www.aljazeera.com/cgi-bin/news_service/middle_east_full_story.asp?service_id=7608 Making any statement like this is always branded as Anti-Semitism while at best it is Anti-ZIonist (or simply the truth !). Now PLEASE change this Anti-Semitism crap about Islam !
We would like to get in touch with professor Bauer.
Could you send us his email address?
Thanks,
Mike Ebrani
The footnote buried at the bottom concernig the Wannsee Conference is interesting enough to be explained in the body of the article ( trying to tell the truth but burying it at the same time? ). Bauer says the Wannsee Protocols are not a plan for extermination - contrary to the wiki article on the Wannsee. I don't believe any reputable scholar agrees with wiki on this one. To connect Hitler with extermination Bauer etal then fall into guesses and mysticism - at least Bauer dispute Goldhagen ( he has some pride left).
There has been a dispute about content within The Holocaust's article, particularly regarding whether or not 'slaughter' is an appropriate word to use. I am involved in that dispute and my edits to the Yehuda Bauer article may therefore look like POV pushing. While that may appear true, I am using neutral language and citing the subject of the article; research already done should be put to use where applicable. — Parhamr 09:14, 22 July 2007 (UTC)
I was troubled by the sentence:
"Professor Bauer also believes that people must go to Yad Vashem to learn the right way of understanding the Holocaust."
It makes him sound intellectually totalitarian, perhaps some elaboration is in order? Also the following sentence (which I rewrote) ("Many others believe that complex historical events such as the Holocaust require a multiplicity of perspectives rather than a single orthodoxy, however well intentioned and enlightened it may be.") seems somewhat gratuitous and even mildly latently moralistic but I didn't want to delete it outright (lest I be accused of "censorship"). Historian932 ( talk) 06:24, 30 November 2009 (UTC)
About ten years ago I read an article or a brochure by Bauer on the rescue of most Danish Jews from deportation in Sep. 1943, after they had been warned by a German diplomat, Georg Ferdinand Duckwitz. This episode is correctly reported in the WP article on Duckwitz, himself an early member of the Nazi party. /info/en/?search=Georg_Ferdinand_Duckwitz Surprisingly Yehuda Bauer did not mention Duckwitz in his essay or brochure, without whose warning the rescue of the Danish Jews would in all likelihood not have taken place. Can anyone help me find this publication and explain to me why Duckwitz´ name was not mentioned? Ontologix ( talk) 02:14, 24 October 2013 (UTC)
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"Discussing Denial and Distortion of the Holocaust" While the International Holocaust Remembrance Alliance attempted to define Holocaust denial and distortion in 2013 ( https://www.holocaustremembrance.com/resources/working-definitions-charters/working-definition-holocaust-denial-and-distortion), Bauer points out a gap in the definition: namely, quantification of victims. A huge way in which denial manifests, he argues, is in underestimating Jewish fatalities, thus leading them to "conclude that 'the Jews' exaggerate their losses" ( https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/23739770.2020.1805916). Another key way in which the Holocaust's impact is diminished is by key antisemitic and right-wing intellectuals, who argue that Jews "invented the Holocaust for economic and political gain" ( https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/23739770.2020.1805916). While this claim is widely disputed in much of the 'Western' world, Bauer points out that Holocaust denial is engrained in much of radical Islam. This denial stems from promises by the Germans for liberation from Western dependency and manifests through denial in Islamic media outlets. Bauer points out, through his writing in the Israel Council on Foreign Relations ( /info/en/?search=Israel_Council_on_Foreign_Relations), that one form of denial outright denies the Holocaust and the other which supports ideas of destruction, outlined by the Holocaust. Polish denial, Bauer claims, is less focused on the fact that the Holocaust existed (which is commemorated widely in Poland), but is focused on denial of individual Polish responsibility in the Holocaust. Despite this denial, Poles consistently collaborated with villages and leaders alike to arrest and alert Germany of the presence of Jews. As such, Bauer hopes that the definition can be expanded to meet these needs and hopes that in doing so, other countries will take sufficient responsibility for their participation in the Shoah ( https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/23739770.2020.1805916). Mapelviewicecream ( talk) 11:52, 6 July 2021 (UTC)
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Change this: What the Nazis called the "Final Solution of the Jewish Question" was formalized at the Wannsee Conference on January 20, 1942.
To this: What the Nazis called the "Final Solution of the Jewish Question" is considered to have been formalized at the Wannsee Conference on January 20, 1942, although Bauer has rejected this view, calling it a "silly story".
Cite this 23 Jan 1992 article from Jewish Telegraphic Agency: https://www.jta.org/archive/nazi-scheme-not-born-at-wannsee-israeli-holocaust-scholar-claims
Cite The Canadian Jewish News 30 Jan 1992. The article is screenshotted here as Image 12 and claimed to be from that date, although I don't know if a better confirmation of the date is needed https://phdn.org/archives/holocaust-history.org/wannseeprotocol/index.html
Not sure if Wikipedia's characterization of the conference is at all warranted. From the link above ( THHP) - "Since the early 1960s at the latest, historians agree that no decision was taken at Wannsee and in countless books and articles published since, this overrated interpretation of Wannsee is addressed explicitly. [...] Bauer was far from the first scholar who has rejected the "Wannsee decision" - as already said, this was accepted by historians for decades." HonestManBad ( talk) 01:47, 20 January 2022 (UTC)
{{
edit extended-protected}}
template.
ScottishFinnishRadish (
talk) 01:54, 20 January 2022 (UTC)
'What the Nazis called the "Final Solution of the Jewish Question" was formalized at the Wannsee Conference on January 20, 1942.'
This comes just after a passage describing Bauer's view which clashes with this. So... you state "Bauer believes X", then right after that you essentially state "X is false" as an established fact without noting the contradiction. Very strangely written.
I propose that the above sentence be changed to 'What the Nazis called the "Final Solution of the Jewish Question" is considered to have been formalized at the Wannsee Conference on January 20, 1942, although Bauer has rejected this view, calling it a "silly story".'
Cite this 23 Jan 1992 article from Jewish Telegraphic Agency.
Cite The Canadian Jewish News 30 Jan 1992. The article is screenshotted here by The Holocaust History Project (THHP) as Image 12 and claimed to be from that date.
I'm not sure if Wikipedia's characterization of the conference is at all warranted. From the THHP link above - "Since the early 1960s at the latest, historians agree that no decision was taken at Wannsee and in countless books and articles published since, this overrated interpretation of Wannsee is addressed explicitly. [...] Bauer was far from the first scholar who has rejected the "Wannsee decision" - as already said, this was accepted by historians for decades." HonestManBad ( talk) 10:59, 20 January 2022 (UTC)
Where does Himmler states his rejection of "the Bolshevik method of physical annihilation of a people out of inner conviction as un-German and impossible,"? He is not rejecting anything, he says he prefers emigration IF they decide not to physically exterminate them. "Cruel and tragic as every individual case may be, this method (emigration) is still the mildest and best one if, out of inner conviction, one rejects as un-German and impossible the Bolshevist method of physical extermination of a people." — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A00:CA8:A15:12BA:4AB:9488:349E:145D ( talk) 17:14, 14 February 2022 (UTC)
The claim is made in the Holocaust section that Professor Bauer believes "the Holocaust was the worst single case of genocide in history" but I have heard him explicitly denying this in a recent lecture to an audience of schoolteachers at Yad Vashem and available now on YouTube. There is no citation for the claim made in the article and I believe he probably never held such an opinion but if he did so he has certainly changed this opinion. There might be a confusion in the minds of some how Professor Bauer speaks of the uniqueness of the Jewish Holocaust but this is identical to the uniqueness of every case of genocide where the specificity of the victims' experience must be appreciated. Professor Bauer believes there to be no measure of the Jewish Holocaust event which can support the view that it was the worst single case of genocide in history. Someone needs to fix this serious error. SanVitores ( talk) 04:59, 25 August 2022 (UTC)
![]() | This
edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
There should be a space before "Bauer" in the sentence that begins "Bauer has criticized..." Kamtal75 ( talk) 09:02, 25 December 2022 (UTC)
謝謝! Kamtal75 ( talk) 00:15, 26 December 2022 (UTC)
A more up-to-date photo would be desirable here and in the articles in other languages. Mcljlm ( talk) 16:42, 5 April 2024 (UTC)
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Please remove from the introduction: "Bauer is a Bosnian genocide denier who has claimed that the Srebrenica massacre was an "act of mass murder, but not genocide".<ref>Ivica Bakota; (2019) Bosnia-Herzegovina social briefing: Bosnian genocide denial p. 4; ISSN 2560-1601 [1]"
This statement was recently added by another user, and is defamatory and inaccurate. Bauer does not deny the events that took place at Srebrenica, but rather discusses how the legal definition of genocide is applied to different instances of mass murder as part of his work (source: https://www.ushmm.org/m/pdfs/20070215-bauer.pdf). Furthermore, the Srebrenica massacre is not a central focus of Bauer's scholarship in any way, and should not be included in the first section of his article. A quick internet search will reveal that this change is primarily intended to slander Bauer, not to contribute to the body of knowledge in the article. Furthermore, looking at the history of the edits on the article, you will see that this information has never been previously phrased this way in the article, raising serious questions regarding its veracity. The source that is included to support this edit is also obscure and dubious, and is not a reputable academic source. 100.15.203.82 ( talk) 13:42, 3 June 2024 (UTC)