![]() | This article was nominated for deletion on 21 January 2007. The result of the discussion was Keep. |
![]() | Yechi received a peer review by Wikipedia editors, which is now archived. It may contain ideas you can use to improve this article. |
Hello: The above comments look confusing. If they are from one person who is writing them, please keep the comments in a tighter formation so that they don't appear like a few people are making comments at once. If it's more than one person writing, then please use the four tildes ~~~~ after each comment that you write. Thanks for your understanding. IZAK 10:02, 19 December 2005 (UTC)
I have made the following changes
I added the section of 1985, because one cannot simply qoute only one source without letting readers know additional sources. please.
Orgin comes from the Gemara. IIRC Rashi brings it down in Sanhedrin. There is also a story in Admur HaMahaRash, since the time of the Rebbe Maharash chosidim would say Yechi after Davening, because the Rebbe Marash had health problems. It is not new at all. 220.233.48.200 14:40, 26 December 2005 (UTC)
after reading this article i think its missing some facts like the first time yechi was song befor the Rebbe. also missing is th Pesak din by Rabonim that the Rebbe is Bicheskas Moshiach (i did not add it because i'm looking for the source) also, it seems the article is very POV. I side with Pinchas in that I dont think the daily news article is relevent here. we need links explaining the Yechi, pro or against, not a story about a title ZaYa. Zalmin 01:10, 25 January 2006 (UTC)Zalmin
The couple of people in tzefat who actually say anything along the lines of Rebbe as G-d or creator are clearly not currently, nor have they ever been, accepted by anybody within Chabad as Lubavitchers. This is a handful of clearly troubled -- and often, as in the case of the "leader" Meir Baranes, criminally insane -- individuals, who have chosen an extreme and ridiculous position to express their need for attention. There is nobody of any type of official or even semi-official standing in Chabad anywhere that approves or agrees with any such statements.04:04, 26 February 2006 (UTC)
I'm removing the NYT article about the "Honorifics on the stone" which is not about Yechi. There have been many disagreements between the Lubavitchers that say yechi and those against it. Theres no need to start listing them in the article about yechi.
Shouldn't it be spelled "VOED" not "VAED"?
Shlomke has been reverting me for no reason. I explained my edit in the edit summary. Shlomke, why are you reverting? -- TrachtGut 16:37, 24 December 2006 (UTC)
The way I see it is that there are 3 editors edit warring on this article. Shlomke, TrachtGut and VelvelK. Shlomke is trying to keep it to the the version that it was until now, TrachtGut is changing some info and removing other info that he says is unsourced, and VelvelK is just blanket removing sourced material. I do not agree with VelvelK's edits as they clearly violate policy with the removal of sourced info, so I have reverted him. Although TrachtGut did not bring sources for his edits, he was just changing unsourced info for other unsourced info. Therefore if TrachtGut or Shlomke can bring Reliable Sources for their claims that would be the way to settle their edit war. moshiachlisten.com and pamphlets printed in 770 are NOT Reliable Sources. -- PinchasC | £€åV€ m€ å m€§§åg€ 13:43, 25 December 2006 (UTC)
Ok, I will take this slowly and bring here reasons for all my edits. My changes to the first paragrapgh is based on http://www.thejewishweek.com/news/newscontent.php3?artid=9558&print=yes -- TrachtGut 00:26, 26 December 2006 (UTC)
My changes to the 4th paragraph are adding a source for the 1988 talk and giving source for 1988 and putting a fact tag for the many of his followers sentence. -- TrachtGut 00:30, 26 December 2006 (UTC)
I added fact tags to the "The first singing of the full version of Yechi" and "On April 29th, the Rebbe encouraged" paragraphs because they don't have reliable sources as PinchasC wrote earliar. -- TrachtGut 00:33, 26 December 2006 (UTC)
I have removed the sentence "While no statistics are available regarding these phenomena, both sides claim that a majority of Lubavitchers hold as they do. " that was tagged with fact and contradicts http://www.thejewishweek.com/news/newscontent.php3?artid=9558&print=yes -- TrachtGut 00:35, 26 December 2006 (UTC)
I removed two statements "Non-Lubavitch Orthodox Jews often frown on the recitation of Yechi during prayer" and "With few total exceptions, they at least tolerate occasional declarations of Yechi, if not actually condone them as an appropriate development in Lubavitch chassidic custom." because they were tagged with fact as they are unsourced. -- TrachtGut 00:38, 26 December 2006 (UTC)
I removed "In fact, of those opposed to Yechi (the so-called "anti" faction), many admittedly accept the message contained therein." and "Many believers, or meshichisten, say Yechi under their breath after prayer." both which were tagged with fact. -- TrachtGut 00:41, 26 December 2006 (UTC)
I tagged the "In the years following the death of the Rebbe," parapgraph with fact because it conradicts http://www.thejewishweek.com/news/newscontent.php3?artid=9558&print=yes -- TrachtGut 00:43, 26 December 2006 (UTC)
I removed a link because of number 11 of Wikipedia:External_links#Links_normally_to_be_avoided -- TrachtGut 00:46, 26 December 2006 (UTC)
I changed the description of a link as per http://www.thejewishweek.com/news/newscontent.php3?artid=9558&print=yes -- TrachtGut 00:47, 26 December 2006 (UTC)
Pinchas, I looked at Reliable sources. To Quote, it say's: Self published sources such as personal web pages, personally published print runs and blogs have not been subject to any form of independent fact-checking and so have lower levels of reliability than published news media (e.g. The Economist) and other sources with editorial oversight, which is less reliable itself than professional or peer reviewed journal (e.g. Nature).. So Moshiachlisten.com is actually reliable.
Please point out why you think The facts behind the psak book is not reliable. I do not find anything wrong with it. Shlomke 04:28, 29 December 2006 (UTC)
Trachgut, the article from the Jewish week you provide actually say's that there are two opinions about how many Meshichistim there are. And they disagree that there aren't so many.
No need for the fact tag to the "many of his followers" sentence, Since that sicha is one of the main used sources for saying Yechi.
The source for "The first singing of the full version of Yechi" is form a WLCC video.
The sentence "While no statistics are available regarding these phenomena, both sides claim that a majority of Lubavitchers hold as they do. " is true, and as pointed out, The Jewish week article itself says the same thing.
The sentence "In fact, of those opposed to Yechi (the so-called "anti" faction), many admittedly accept the message contained therein." and "Many believers, or meshichisten, say Yechi under their breath after prayer." is sourced by Moshiachlisten.com and other sources: Moshiach: setting the record straight. Shlomke 04:57, 29 December 2006 (UTC)
I don't want to open a can of worms here, but... The article says that there is no problem with saying "Yechi" according to "Halacha." Besides the akwardness of that sentence, it is simply POV. Plenty of figures in the Jewish world have said exactly the opposite. If we want to be fair, we can give the variety of positions and let the readers draw their own conclusions. -- Meshulam 01:21, 26 December 2006 (UTC)
My, people are so zealous about rules around here. Which "halacha" did they say it violates? Yehoishophot Oliver 22:26, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
I added the section of 1985, because one cannot simply qoute only one source without letting readers know additional sources. please. I changed "death of the rebbe" to the third of tammuz June 12 1994, so that it fits with all positions.
I changed the translation of Yechi to be quite a bit more accurate; and added additional info on the Rebbe encoureging it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Zaygezunt ( talk • contribs)
Trachgut, what is your source that yechi is said as a prayer and not a proclamation? Shlomke 20:47, 31 December 2006 (UTC)
I'm changing back to the words is the awaited Messiah, because when people say yechi that is what they are saying, and there is no reference to will be revealed in in yechi. Shlomke 17:24, 3 January 2007 (UTC)
Is there any opposition to a merge and redirect of Yechi to this article? As the subjects are kind of overlapping. I have started at a discussion regarding this at Talk:Chabad_Messianism#Merge_with_Yechi, to avoid having comments in multiple places, please respond there. -- PinchasC | £€åV€ m€ å m€§§åg€ 00:26, 6 March 2007 (UTC)
Reviewing the info here, it is clear that Yechi is substantial enough to merit its own article. Since the Chabad messianism article is already well over 60kb, I have unmerged it. This article os OK as it is, and has survived an AfD. Lobojo ( talk) 03:08, 10 December 2007 (UTC)
![]() | This article was nominated for deletion on 21 January 2007. The result of the discussion was Keep. |
![]() | Yechi received a peer review by Wikipedia editors, which is now archived. It may contain ideas you can use to improve this article. |
Hello: The above comments look confusing. If they are from one person who is writing them, please keep the comments in a tighter formation so that they don't appear like a few people are making comments at once. If it's more than one person writing, then please use the four tildes ~~~~ after each comment that you write. Thanks for your understanding. IZAK 10:02, 19 December 2005 (UTC)
I have made the following changes
I added the section of 1985, because one cannot simply qoute only one source without letting readers know additional sources. please.
Orgin comes from the Gemara. IIRC Rashi brings it down in Sanhedrin. There is also a story in Admur HaMahaRash, since the time of the Rebbe Maharash chosidim would say Yechi after Davening, because the Rebbe Marash had health problems. It is not new at all. 220.233.48.200 14:40, 26 December 2005 (UTC)
after reading this article i think its missing some facts like the first time yechi was song befor the Rebbe. also missing is th Pesak din by Rabonim that the Rebbe is Bicheskas Moshiach (i did not add it because i'm looking for the source) also, it seems the article is very POV. I side with Pinchas in that I dont think the daily news article is relevent here. we need links explaining the Yechi, pro or against, not a story about a title ZaYa. Zalmin 01:10, 25 January 2006 (UTC)Zalmin
The couple of people in tzefat who actually say anything along the lines of Rebbe as G-d or creator are clearly not currently, nor have they ever been, accepted by anybody within Chabad as Lubavitchers. This is a handful of clearly troubled -- and often, as in the case of the "leader" Meir Baranes, criminally insane -- individuals, who have chosen an extreme and ridiculous position to express their need for attention. There is nobody of any type of official or even semi-official standing in Chabad anywhere that approves or agrees with any such statements.04:04, 26 February 2006 (UTC)
I'm removing the NYT article about the "Honorifics on the stone" which is not about Yechi. There have been many disagreements between the Lubavitchers that say yechi and those against it. Theres no need to start listing them in the article about yechi.
Shouldn't it be spelled "VOED" not "VAED"?
Shlomke has been reverting me for no reason. I explained my edit in the edit summary. Shlomke, why are you reverting? -- TrachtGut 16:37, 24 December 2006 (UTC)
The way I see it is that there are 3 editors edit warring on this article. Shlomke, TrachtGut and VelvelK. Shlomke is trying to keep it to the the version that it was until now, TrachtGut is changing some info and removing other info that he says is unsourced, and VelvelK is just blanket removing sourced material. I do not agree with VelvelK's edits as they clearly violate policy with the removal of sourced info, so I have reverted him. Although TrachtGut did not bring sources for his edits, he was just changing unsourced info for other unsourced info. Therefore if TrachtGut or Shlomke can bring Reliable Sources for their claims that would be the way to settle their edit war. moshiachlisten.com and pamphlets printed in 770 are NOT Reliable Sources. -- PinchasC | £€åV€ m€ å m€§§åg€ 13:43, 25 December 2006 (UTC)
Ok, I will take this slowly and bring here reasons for all my edits. My changes to the first paragrapgh is based on http://www.thejewishweek.com/news/newscontent.php3?artid=9558&print=yes -- TrachtGut 00:26, 26 December 2006 (UTC)
My changes to the 4th paragraph are adding a source for the 1988 talk and giving source for 1988 and putting a fact tag for the many of his followers sentence. -- TrachtGut 00:30, 26 December 2006 (UTC)
I added fact tags to the "The first singing of the full version of Yechi" and "On April 29th, the Rebbe encouraged" paragraphs because they don't have reliable sources as PinchasC wrote earliar. -- TrachtGut 00:33, 26 December 2006 (UTC)
I have removed the sentence "While no statistics are available regarding these phenomena, both sides claim that a majority of Lubavitchers hold as they do. " that was tagged with fact and contradicts http://www.thejewishweek.com/news/newscontent.php3?artid=9558&print=yes -- TrachtGut 00:35, 26 December 2006 (UTC)
I removed two statements "Non-Lubavitch Orthodox Jews often frown on the recitation of Yechi during prayer" and "With few total exceptions, they at least tolerate occasional declarations of Yechi, if not actually condone them as an appropriate development in Lubavitch chassidic custom." because they were tagged with fact as they are unsourced. -- TrachtGut 00:38, 26 December 2006 (UTC)
I removed "In fact, of those opposed to Yechi (the so-called "anti" faction), many admittedly accept the message contained therein." and "Many believers, or meshichisten, say Yechi under their breath after prayer." both which were tagged with fact. -- TrachtGut 00:41, 26 December 2006 (UTC)
I tagged the "In the years following the death of the Rebbe," parapgraph with fact because it conradicts http://www.thejewishweek.com/news/newscontent.php3?artid=9558&print=yes -- TrachtGut 00:43, 26 December 2006 (UTC)
I removed a link because of number 11 of Wikipedia:External_links#Links_normally_to_be_avoided -- TrachtGut 00:46, 26 December 2006 (UTC)
I changed the description of a link as per http://www.thejewishweek.com/news/newscontent.php3?artid=9558&print=yes -- TrachtGut 00:47, 26 December 2006 (UTC)
Pinchas, I looked at Reliable sources. To Quote, it say's: Self published sources such as personal web pages, personally published print runs and blogs have not been subject to any form of independent fact-checking and so have lower levels of reliability than published news media (e.g. The Economist) and other sources with editorial oversight, which is less reliable itself than professional or peer reviewed journal (e.g. Nature).. So Moshiachlisten.com is actually reliable.
Please point out why you think The facts behind the psak book is not reliable. I do not find anything wrong with it. Shlomke 04:28, 29 December 2006 (UTC)
Trachgut, the article from the Jewish week you provide actually say's that there are two opinions about how many Meshichistim there are. And they disagree that there aren't so many.
No need for the fact tag to the "many of his followers" sentence, Since that sicha is one of the main used sources for saying Yechi.
The source for "The first singing of the full version of Yechi" is form a WLCC video.
The sentence "While no statistics are available regarding these phenomena, both sides claim that a majority of Lubavitchers hold as they do. " is true, and as pointed out, The Jewish week article itself says the same thing.
The sentence "In fact, of those opposed to Yechi (the so-called "anti" faction), many admittedly accept the message contained therein." and "Many believers, or meshichisten, say Yechi under their breath after prayer." is sourced by Moshiachlisten.com and other sources: Moshiach: setting the record straight. Shlomke 04:57, 29 December 2006 (UTC)
I don't want to open a can of worms here, but... The article says that there is no problem with saying "Yechi" according to "Halacha." Besides the akwardness of that sentence, it is simply POV. Plenty of figures in the Jewish world have said exactly the opposite. If we want to be fair, we can give the variety of positions and let the readers draw their own conclusions. -- Meshulam 01:21, 26 December 2006 (UTC)
My, people are so zealous about rules around here. Which "halacha" did they say it violates? Yehoishophot Oliver 22:26, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
I added the section of 1985, because one cannot simply qoute only one source without letting readers know additional sources. please. I changed "death of the rebbe" to the third of tammuz June 12 1994, so that it fits with all positions.
I changed the translation of Yechi to be quite a bit more accurate; and added additional info on the Rebbe encoureging it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Zaygezunt ( talk • contribs)
Trachgut, what is your source that yechi is said as a prayer and not a proclamation? Shlomke 20:47, 31 December 2006 (UTC)
I'm changing back to the words is the awaited Messiah, because when people say yechi that is what they are saying, and there is no reference to will be revealed in in yechi. Shlomke 17:24, 3 January 2007 (UTC)
Is there any opposition to a merge and redirect of Yechi to this article? As the subjects are kind of overlapping. I have started at a discussion regarding this at Talk:Chabad_Messianism#Merge_with_Yechi, to avoid having comments in multiple places, please respond there. -- PinchasC | £€åV€ m€ å m€§§åg€ 00:26, 6 March 2007 (UTC)
Reviewing the info here, it is clear that Yechi is substantial enough to merit its own article. Since the Chabad messianism article is already well over 60kb, I have unmerged it. This article os OK as it is, and has survived an AfD. Lobojo ( talk) 03:08, 10 December 2007 (UTC)