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As per
Wikipedia's naming conventions for Album titles and band names, should this article be named "Year Zero Remixed", or "Y34RZ3R0R3M1X3D"? 22:15, 20 October 2007 (UTC)
I'm pre-emptively opening this discussion on the title. Wikipedia has a Naming convention policy. Because it's a policy (and not a guideline), that means it MUST be followed, not should be followed. The policy states: "Do not replicate stylized typography in logos and album art." Therefore, I think it's clear that the article title and album should be referred to on Wikipedia as Year Zero Remixed rather than the stylized Y34RZ3R0R3M1X3D. -- Tabanger 00:59, 16 August 2007 (UTC)
(Copied from User talk:Reaper X) → All Music Guide was inconclusive, but the Billboard.com article cited in the article says the title is in fact Y34RZ3R0R3MIX3D. Technically there's nothing stylized about it (like the backward "R" in Korn), so for now that does seem like the official title. WesleyDodds 22:44, 20 October 2007 (UTC)
the prime objective of wikipedia should be to provide correct and objective information, and that overrules any other guideline or policy. therefore, if the title of this album is Y34RZ3R0R3M1X3D (i.e. if it's not just a stylised logo on the album art) than that is how it should be written, not Y34rz3r0r3m1x3d or year zero remixed. the question of whether such a non standard title is used for marketing reasons or not should be left to the reader to answer, if you change the name to year zero remixed on the assumption that Y34RZ3R0R3M1X3D is just a marketing gimmick you loose the neutral point. the issue on how it is pronounced is irrelevant seeing that english spelling conventions are anything but phonetical. -- L!nus 17:36, 21 October 2007 (UTC)
This is certainly a fringe case, but I would also argue in favor of Year Zero Remixed, per the spirit of the previously mentioned formatting guidelines, which obviously were not written with something like this in mind, but clearly favor standard English text formatting over stylized typography. I'd also like to bring Wikipedia:Accessibility into consideration. What exactly is the current article title going to produce through a screen reader? Also, why is the current article inconsistent in the naming of the record and how come any explanation of the official title being in fact leetspeak got removed? Forgive my finger-wagging, but we really need to think of our readership beyond NIN fans, such as handicapped or not too online-culture-savvy people. - Cyrus XIII 22:15, 21 October 2007 (UTC)
It's been four days without rebuttal, I will include the stylized title in the lead. -- Reaper X 20:40, 25 October 2007 (UTC)
I feel I should point something out. Regardless of what Wikipedia's guidelines say, Wikipedia doesn't have the right to just change the names of things. If the name of the album is "Y34RZ3R0R3M1X3D", then that's the name of the album, and it is the name. Trent has written it out as "Y34RZ3R0R3M1X3D". AFAIK, he has never written it out as "Year Zero Remixed". It would be more appropriate to have the article introduction appear as "Y34RZ3R0R3M1X3D (pronounced as "Year Zero Remixed) is..." or something to that effect. Regarding capitalization issues elsewhere in Wikipedia, remember the big fuss over the iPod article? The same applies here. -- Christopher C. Parker t c 22:18, 26 October 2007 (UTC)
Any discussions about debating or changing policy should be forwarded to Wikipedia:Village pump (policy). -- Reaper X 22:20, 19 November 2007 (UTC)
This may be pretty much a dead issue at this point, but for what it's worth, as far as I'm concerned this article belongs in the Y34RZ3R0R3M1X3D namespace, with Year Zero Remixed redirecting thereto. Ridiculously impractical to pronounce though it may be, Y34RZ3R0R3M1X3D is clearly the official title of this record. Any Wikipedia naming convention that lacks the flexibility to treat Y34RZ3R0R3M1X3D as the official title should be reconsidered. The article as it currently exists ( http://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Year_Zero_Remixed&oldid=197100136) distorts the truth by creating the false impression that Year Zero Remixed is the official title. The argument for keeping the article in the Year Zero Remixed namespace strikes me as a case of obeying the letter of the law while violating its spirit; I seriously doubt that the authors of our naming conventions intended them to be applied at the expense of fidelity to the truth.
Your friend, Augustus Chip ( talk) 23:57, 9 March 2008 (UTC)
To bring this issue from the dead, according to http://yearzero.nin.com/remix/, the headline reads, "Y34RZ3R0R3M1X3D, the Year Zero remix album." Nowhere has the album ever been referred to as flat out Year Zero Remixed, so, despite any Wikipedia rules, the title of the album is Y34Z3R0R3M1X3D and NOT Year Zero Remixed. I will be changing this, once again, officially from Trent Reznor, the album is Y34Z3R0R3M1X3D. It's even written like this on iTunes. Tribestros ( talk) 23:43, 16 March 2008 (UTC)
I have just added redirects from Year zero remixed to Year Zero Remixed and from Y34rz3r0r3m1x3d to Y34RZ3R0R3M1X3D, for practical reasons. I am not big on policy stuff and I see there are good reasons for many different ways to spell the page name (as in what URL it has), but since we do have the nifty redirect function here at Wikipedia it doesn't matter that much. (But my first article on Wikipedia was Filmjölk, with a redirect from Filmjolk.) But User:Cyrus XIII very well pointed out the technical reasons such as screen readers for the blind etc, so it is a tricky choice.
Anyway, no matter what URL this page has I think the article text itself should state the truth, after all this an encyclopaedia, right? So I think the first paragraph should say: "Y34RZ3R0R3M1X3D (a
leetspeak stylization of Year Zero Remixed...". And then as is currently the case mostly use the name "the album" in the text to make it easy to read. If the album title is spelled out further down in the text it might be a good idea to write it as "Y34RZ3R0R3M1X3D (Year Zero Remixed)" since many or perhaps most readers are not used to leetspeak. And the name at the top of the infobox should be Y34RZ3R0R3M1X3D, perhaps with (Year Zero Remixed) directly under it for readability. (Use a <br>
tag between the two spellings when feeding it to the "Name" parameter in the infobox, then they align neatly under each other.)
-- David Göthberg ( talk) 20:58, 17 March 2008 (UTC)
I'm removing the release date, as there is no known release date at this time, and any release date is speculation. And there is no proof given with a link to show a release date.-- Khristopher 04:24, 28 August 2007 (UTC)
I will delete all of them - if they really will be announced, they will be added again in any case. Litis 08:31, 13 September 2007 (UTC)
No mention that each remix was selected by online vote? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.172.94.154 ( talk) 21:09, 9 June 2022 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Year Zero Remixed article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
![]() | This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
{{
RFCmedia}}
As per
Wikipedia's naming conventions for Album titles and band names, should this article be named "Year Zero Remixed", or "Y34RZ3R0R3M1X3D"? 22:15, 20 October 2007 (UTC)
I'm pre-emptively opening this discussion on the title. Wikipedia has a Naming convention policy. Because it's a policy (and not a guideline), that means it MUST be followed, not should be followed. The policy states: "Do not replicate stylized typography in logos and album art." Therefore, I think it's clear that the article title and album should be referred to on Wikipedia as Year Zero Remixed rather than the stylized Y34RZ3R0R3M1X3D. -- Tabanger 00:59, 16 August 2007 (UTC)
(Copied from User talk:Reaper X) → All Music Guide was inconclusive, but the Billboard.com article cited in the article says the title is in fact Y34RZ3R0R3MIX3D. Technically there's nothing stylized about it (like the backward "R" in Korn), so for now that does seem like the official title. WesleyDodds 22:44, 20 October 2007 (UTC)
the prime objective of wikipedia should be to provide correct and objective information, and that overrules any other guideline or policy. therefore, if the title of this album is Y34RZ3R0R3M1X3D (i.e. if it's not just a stylised logo on the album art) than that is how it should be written, not Y34rz3r0r3m1x3d or year zero remixed. the question of whether such a non standard title is used for marketing reasons or not should be left to the reader to answer, if you change the name to year zero remixed on the assumption that Y34RZ3R0R3M1X3D is just a marketing gimmick you loose the neutral point. the issue on how it is pronounced is irrelevant seeing that english spelling conventions are anything but phonetical. -- L!nus 17:36, 21 October 2007 (UTC)
This is certainly a fringe case, but I would also argue in favor of Year Zero Remixed, per the spirit of the previously mentioned formatting guidelines, which obviously were not written with something like this in mind, but clearly favor standard English text formatting over stylized typography. I'd also like to bring Wikipedia:Accessibility into consideration. What exactly is the current article title going to produce through a screen reader? Also, why is the current article inconsistent in the naming of the record and how come any explanation of the official title being in fact leetspeak got removed? Forgive my finger-wagging, but we really need to think of our readership beyond NIN fans, such as handicapped or not too online-culture-savvy people. - Cyrus XIII 22:15, 21 October 2007 (UTC)
It's been four days without rebuttal, I will include the stylized title in the lead. -- Reaper X 20:40, 25 October 2007 (UTC)
I feel I should point something out. Regardless of what Wikipedia's guidelines say, Wikipedia doesn't have the right to just change the names of things. If the name of the album is "Y34RZ3R0R3M1X3D", then that's the name of the album, and it is the name. Trent has written it out as "Y34RZ3R0R3M1X3D". AFAIK, he has never written it out as "Year Zero Remixed". It would be more appropriate to have the article introduction appear as "Y34RZ3R0R3M1X3D (pronounced as "Year Zero Remixed) is..." or something to that effect. Regarding capitalization issues elsewhere in Wikipedia, remember the big fuss over the iPod article? The same applies here. -- Christopher C. Parker t c 22:18, 26 October 2007 (UTC)
Any discussions about debating or changing policy should be forwarded to Wikipedia:Village pump (policy). -- Reaper X 22:20, 19 November 2007 (UTC)
This may be pretty much a dead issue at this point, but for what it's worth, as far as I'm concerned this article belongs in the Y34RZ3R0R3M1X3D namespace, with Year Zero Remixed redirecting thereto. Ridiculously impractical to pronounce though it may be, Y34RZ3R0R3M1X3D is clearly the official title of this record. Any Wikipedia naming convention that lacks the flexibility to treat Y34RZ3R0R3M1X3D as the official title should be reconsidered. The article as it currently exists ( http://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Year_Zero_Remixed&oldid=197100136) distorts the truth by creating the false impression that Year Zero Remixed is the official title. The argument for keeping the article in the Year Zero Remixed namespace strikes me as a case of obeying the letter of the law while violating its spirit; I seriously doubt that the authors of our naming conventions intended them to be applied at the expense of fidelity to the truth.
Your friend, Augustus Chip ( talk) 23:57, 9 March 2008 (UTC)
To bring this issue from the dead, according to http://yearzero.nin.com/remix/, the headline reads, "Y34RZ3R0R3M1X3D, the Year Zero remix album." Nowhere has the album ever been referred to as flat out Year Zero Remixed, so, despite any Wikipedia rules, the title of the album is Y34Z3R0R3M1X3D and NOT Year Zero Remixed. I will be changing this, once again, officially from Trent Reznor, the album is Y34Z3R0R3M1X3D. It's even written like this on iTunes. Tribestros ( talk) 23:43, 16 March 2008 (UTC)
I have just added redirects from Year zero remixed to Year Zero Remixed and from Y34rz3r0r3m1x3d to Y34RZ3R0R3M1X3D, for practical reasons. I am not big on policy stuff and I see there are good reasons for many different ways to spell the page name (as in what URL it has), but since we do have the nifty redirect function here at Wikipedia it doesn't matter that much. (But my first article on Wikipedia was Filmjölk, with a redirect from Filmjolk.) But User:Cyrus XIII very well pointed out the technical reasons such as screen readers for the blind etc, so it is a tricky choice.
Anyway, no matter what URL this page has I think the article text itself should state the truth, after all this an encyclopaedia, right? So I think the first paragraph should say: "Y34RZ3R0R3M1X3D (a
leetspeak stylization of Year Zero Remixed...". And then as is currently the case mostly use the name "the album" in the text to make it easy to read. If the album title is spelled out further down in the text it might be a good idea to write it as "Y34RZ3R0R3M1X3D (Year Zero Remixed)" since many or perhaps most readers are not used to leetspeak. And the name at the top of the infobox should be Y34RZ3R0R3M1X3D, perhaps with (Year Zero Remixed) directly under it for readability. (Use a <br>
tag between the two spellings when feeding it to the "Name" parameter in the infobox, then they align neatly under each other.)
-- David Göthberg ( talk) 20:58, 17 March 2008 (UTC)
I'm removing the release date, as there is no known release date at this time, and any release date is speculation. And there is no proof given with a link to show a release date.-- Khristopher 04:24, 28 August 2007 (UTC)
I will delete all of them - if they really will be announced, they will be added again in any case. Litis 08:31, 13 September 2007 (UTC)
No mention that each remix was selected by online vote? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.172.94.154 ( talk) 21:09, 9 June 2022 (UTC)