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After some further checking -- are you using a newer version of Bo's version of Zizhi Tongjian than the one that I use? The page citation you gave, in my copy, goes to somewhere in the vol. 50 range, not vol. 46, nor does it support your assertion that the surname was Yishi and not Xue. In any case, though, it's fairly well attested that at least Duomozhi used "Xue." --Nlu (talk) 13:02, 2 May 2007 (UTC)
Retrieved from " http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Eiorgiomugini"
My edition of Bo Yang used Yishi (which I cited down below with ISBN), not Xue, and I'm not asserting anythings, is as simple as that. So I'm gonna switch it to Yishi. Also mine is actually the 平装版 from YL. Eiorgiomugini 13:08, 2 May 2007 (UTC)
I checked again. While vol. 45 does use Yishi (even in my copy), vol. 46 and on used "Xue" throughout. (See, e.g., the entries in 638.) Is that the case in your copy as well? If so, that should be addressed. -- Nlu ( talk) 13:43, 2 May 2007 (UTC)
I had just back home, I will made cross-reference with you later, I have two edition, one from YL another from 友谊出版社 written in GB. Eiorgiomugini 16:18, 2 May 2007 (UTC)
I'm listing the sources as much as I could, however there are just too much to be consider to list them all.
For the line 薛延陀所以匍匐稽颡,惟我所欲,不敢骄慢者,以新为君长,杂姓非其种族 from Tongjian vol.197, Bo yang made a literal translation as 乙失夷南所以如此匍匐跪下叩头,隨我們擺佈,不敢驕傲怠慢,只因他新近才被封可汗,其他部落又都不姓乙失,不是一個種族. Edition from GB listed all three khans as Yishi except for Yishibo. Btw, I'm not sure whether 薛咄摩 can be addressed as Duomozi, both two are like 44 years apart, and their titles are different, one "右玉钤卫大将军" (from the vol. 204. you listed) another "右武卫将军" according to Tangshu. Regards. Eiorgiomugini 18:26, 2 May 2007 (UTC)
All pages addressed are from YL. And it seems fairly clear that Bo yang did asserted Yishi as their surname. I'm actually thinking to leave the surname out of the content since is pretty much controversy as shown from several sources, and it seemed quite unnecessary to address their 'surname' as well. I would suggests you not to waste any time to search for source and refute this petty issue of surname. The dates are all first printed in 1980s. What version are you using? If is not published, is better to follow mine. For Xue Duozhi, Bo yang only explained Quan Xiancheng was koguryo and Xue duozhi as Xueyantuo, nothing implied he was Duomozhi, which was a name shared among other including Turgesh, according to my book in Tujue shi it is actually an official title. For Tanghuiyao, it actually addressing both Xue and Yantuo are two tribes initially, explanations can seen from several published books. Regards. Eiorgiomugini 06:38, 3 May 2007 (UTC)
I had changed their name, and created a section for the surname of khans. If you think the references should not be kept, please change it or remove the section. Eiorgiomugini 18:02, 3 May 2007 (UTC)
Whether Xueyantuo and Syr-Tardash are actually the same people is somewhat disputed, and in any case, Xueyantuo is a more attested name and should be used. (Not to mention that it hasn't even been clearly established that the Xueyantuo were Turkic rather than Hunnic.) -- Nlu ( talk) 02:24, 7 June 2007 (UTC)
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After some further checking -- are you using a newer version of Bo's version of Zizhi Tongjian than the one that I use? The page citation you gave, in my copy, goes to somewhere in the vol. 50 range, not vol. 46, nor does it support your assertion that the surname was Yishi and not Xue. In any case, though, it's fairly well attested that at least Duomozhi used "Xue." --Nlu (talk) 13:02, 2 May 2007 (UTC)
Retrieved from " http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Eiorgiomugini"
My edition of Bo Yang used Yishi (which I cited down below with ISBN), not Xue, and I'm not asserting anythings, is as simple as that. So I'm gonna switch it to Yishi. Also mine is actually the 平装版 from YL. Eiorgiomugini 13:08, 2 May 2007 (UTC)
I checked again. While vol. 45 does use Yishi (even in my copy), vol. 46 and on used "Xue" throughout. (See, e.g., the entries in 638.) Is that the case in your copy as well? If so, that should be addressed. -- Nlu ( talk) 13:43, 2 May 2007 (UTC)
I had just back home, I will made cross-reference with you later, I have two edition, one from YL another from 友谊出版社 written in GB. Eiorgiomugini 16:18, 2 May 2007 (UTC)
I'm listing the sources as much as I could, however there are just too much to be consider to list them all.
For the line 薛延陀所以匍匐稽颡,惟我所欲,不敢骄慢者,以新为君长,杂姓非其种族 from Tongjian vol.197, Bo yang made a literal translation as 乙失夷南所以如此匍匐跪下叩头,隨我們擺佈,不敢驕傲怠慢,只因他新近才被封可汗,其他部落又都不姓乙失,不是一個種族. Edition from GB listed all three khans as Yishi except for Yishibo. Btw, I'm not sure whether 薛咄摩 can be addressed as Duomozi, both two are like 44 years apart, and their titles are different, one "右玉钤卫大将军" (from the vol. 204. you listed) another "右武卫将军" according to Tangshu. Regards. Eiorgiomugini 18:26, 2 May 2007 (UTC)
All pages addressed are from YL. And it seems fairly clear that Bo yang did asserted Yishi as their surname. I'm actually thinking to leave the surname out of the content since is pretty much controversy as shown from several sources, and it seemed quite unnecessary to address their 'surname' as well. I would suggests you not to waste any time to search for source and refute this petty issue of surname. The dates are all first printed in 1980s. What version are you using? If is not published, is better to follow mine. For Xue Duozhi, Bo yang only explained Quan Xiancheng was koguryo and Xue duozhi as Xueyantuo, nothing implied he was Duomozhi, which was a name shared among other including Turgesh, according to my book in Tujue shi it is actually an official title. For Tanghuiyao, it actually addressing both Xue and Yantuo are two tribes initially, explanations can seen from several published books. Regards. Eiorgiomugini 06:38, 3 May 2007 (UTC)
I had changed their name, and created a section for the surname of khans. If you think the references should not be kept, please change it or remove the section. Eiorgiomugini 18:02, 3 May 2007 (UTC)
Whether Xueyantuo and Syr-Tardash are actually the same people is somewhat disputed, and in any case, Xueyantuo is a more attested name and should be used. (Not to mention that it hasn't even been clearly established that the Xueyantuo were Turkic rather than Hunnic.) -- Nlu ( talk) 02:24, 7 June 2007 (UTC)
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Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 17:16, 13 July 2016 (UTC)
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Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 17:33, 16 July 2016 (UTC)