![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 |
I’m glad to see there is a page on this subject, but it needs A LOT of work. I’ve formatted the page per the article of style and added some info about the five classes of immortals. I plan on adding additional material about the three ranks of immortals and the four schools of immortality as set by Ge Hong. I also made some redirect pages, so when a person types in “Chinese immortal” or “Chinese immortality” it comes straight to the article. ( Ghostexorcist 22:04, 11 December 2006 (UTC))
That I don't know. I made the mistake of doing that myself with the Jow Tong article that I wrote. You should contact an administrator about that. Try an admin named Fire Star, he's a nice guy. ( Ghostexorcist 18:36, 16 December 2006 (UTC))
I took some of the "translation" info and put it into the "etymology" section. Then worked off of the first sentence to expand it into a paragraph. But it needs to be expanded more in order to summarize everything covered in the entire article.( Ghostexorcist 20:29, 12 December 2006 (UTC))
No, it didn't say they were simplified and traditional variants of eachother. It calls them "historical" variants. It was my blunder to assume that since I was half asleep when I originally wrote it (I work 9pm-6am and do other things during the day). That's why I changed what I wrote as soon as I read it shortly thereafter. You seem to know a great deal about Chinese. I take it you are a native speaker? I've got a basic understanding of Chinese. I realize that they are words and not just pictures. What is a better dictionary? ( Ghostexorcist 18:47, 16 December 2006 (UTC))
Hi Ghostexorcist
I suspect this "Teachings of Immortals Chung and Lu" at www.universal-tao.com is plagiarized. Try searching inside this book by Eva Wong and let me know what you think. Best wishes. Keahapana 20:18, 15 December 2006 (UTC)
I regret my mistakes and that we've gotten off on the wrong foot, but I appreciate our shared interest in xian and hope we can work together to improve this article. I'll wait until I hear from you before making any more edits here. Best wishes. Keahapana 18:42, 16 December 2006 (UTC)
Inline citations may use one of the following three systems.
- Embedded HTML links
- Harvard referencing
- Footnotes (most often using <ref> and <references/> elements)
What would be the best arrangement of these Xian sections? Something like the French article?
The way it is now, "Descriptions" (I'll delete Akahori) and "History and famous works" overlap. One possible arrangement would be an "Early textual references" section historically subdivided into Zhuangzi, Liezi, Huainanzi, Liexian zhuan, Baopuzi, etc. Any ideas? Keahapana 23:32, 28 December 2006 (UTC)
You read my mind. I was getting ready to suggest moving the photo up. Good work. ( Ghostexorcist 00:26, 29 December 2006 (UTC))
I'm of the opinion that Seen (daoist immortals) be redirected and merged into this article - from what I can tell, these uses of Xian and Seen are different transliterations of the same concept. Further, the Xian page is older, has had more contributors and is better referenced. WLU 11:39, 13 July 2007 (UTC)
As I have commented for the page on "Sexual practices in Orthodox Taoism," whoever is writing these articles have a very slanted view of Taoism. While some sects historically have discouraged sexual alchemy, sexual alchemy is without a doubt a core part of Taoism. I quote from 道教通論:
Ever since Wei Boyang used hidden words to record the secret techniques of 同類陰陽, "密示青州徐從事,徐乃隱名而注之"...we know that 徐從事's 參同契 is based on 陰陽. Here 陰陽 refers to the 合陰陽 of Mawangdui, which means 男女合炁之朮. Cantongqi says "Things without yinyang betray heaven and origin; female cow and hen which give eggs themselves, their offsprings are incomplete." This means that sexual alchemy which incorporates 陰陽丹法 accords with the principles of nature...
The quotes go on and on, but I'll leave you with that.
Look. I like that fact that someone is finally representing Taoism on Wikipedia. But I fear that this person is overzealous and sectarian, teaching others without first teaching himself. Sexual alchemy precedes 清修 historically. To claim that sexual alchemy is not part of Taoism is to be ignorant of alchemical history.
Maybe your 師傅 teaches you not to engage in sexual alchemy. I respect that. But to claim that sexual alchemy is not Taoism is like saying sexual practices is not part of Tantra. It just ain't true.
By the way, 房中朮 is different from 同類陰陽. One is a sexual practice, also based on early Taoism, designed to enhance health. The latter is the highest form of alchemy, which involves exchanging the middle of Li/Kan for Qian/Qun. I think you got these confused. But both are part of Taoism.
Another thing - it seems that the writer of this article likes to repeat "Orthodox Taoism." You should know that there are many Taoist sects. Perhaps you should check with other Taoist sects before you write polemic articles.
Vaibhasika 09:48, 6 August 2007 (UTC)
I refer to the other article "Seen," or something like that, which is about to merged into this article. The same polemic author also modified the page on "Sexual practices in Orthodox Taoism." Vaibhasika 10:06, 6 August 2007 (UTC)
Forgive my fussiness: the character for xian was 屳, not 仚, which is given the fanqie spelling 許堅切 by Xu Xuan 徐鉉 in his edition of Shuowen. So 仚 originally represented another word (*hin), not *sin. Now 仚 and 屳 have merged, representing only the word xian. Still, I doubt whether Schipper's fanciful analysis should be kept. Regards.-- K.C. Tang 07:22, 3 December 2007 (UTC)
Is this Xian called Sendou in Japanese? I apologize that I could not find the kanji. I'm basing this question on an English translation of Sengoku Youko which says they are equivalent. However, my Japanese is poor and my Chinese is non-existent, so since I haven't been able to find an answer in English, I'm unable to add anything to the article but this question. Thanks! -- Geekdiva ( talk) 14:00, 22 February 2010 (UTC)
Moved editorial comment transclusion from main article space to Talk page for editors' further consideration:
![]() | This article has multiple issues. Please help
improve it or discuss these issues on the
talk page. (
Learn how and when to remove these template messages)
|
Dcattell ( talk) 02:10, 21 May 2020 (UTC)
![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 |
I’m glad to see there is a page on this subject, but it needs A LOT of work. I’ve formatted the page per the article of style and added some info about the five classes of immortals. I plan on adding additional material about the three ranks of immortals and the four schools of immortality as set by Ge Hong. I also made some redirect pages, so when a person types in “Chinese immortal” or “Chinese immortality” it comes straight to the article. ( Ghostexorcist 22:04, 11 December 2006 (UTC))
That I don't know. I made the mistake of doing that myself with the Jow Tong article that I wrote. You should contact an administrator about that. Try an admin named Fire Star, he's a nice guy. ( Ghostexorcist 18:36, 16 December 2006 (UTC))
I took some of the "translation" info and put it into the "etymology" section. Then worked off of the first sentence to expand it into a paragraph. But it needs to be expanded more in order to summarize everything covered in the entire article.( Ghostexorcist 20:29, 12 December 2006 (UTC))
No, it didn't say they were simplified and traditional variants of eachother. It calls them "historical" variants. It was my blunder to assume that since I was half asleep when I originally wrote it (I work 9pm-6am and do other things during the day). That's why I changed what I wrote as soon as I read it shortly thereafter. You seem to know a great deal about Chinese. I take it you are a native speaker? I've got a basic understanding of Chinese. I realize that they are words and not just pictures. What is a better dictionary? ( Ghostexorcist 18:47, 16 December 2006 (UTC))
Hi Ghostexorcist
I suspect this "Teachings of Immortals Chung and Lu" at www.universal-tao.com is plagiarized. Try searching inside this book by Eva Wong and let me know what you think. Best wishes. Keahapana 20:18, 15 December 2006 (UTC)
I regret my mistakes and that we've gotten off on the wrong foot, but I appreciate our shared interest in xian and hope we can work together to improve this article. I'll wait until I hear from you before making any more edits here. Best wishes. Keahapana 18:42, 16 December 2006 (UTC)
Inline citations may use one of the following three systems.
- Embedded HTML links
- Harvard referencing
- Footnotes (most often using <ref> and <references/> elements)
What would be the best arrangement of these Xian sections? Something like the French article?
The way it is now, "Descriptions" (I'll delete Akahori) and "History and famous works" overlap. One possible arrangement would be an "Early textual references" section historically subdivided into Zhuangzi, Liezi, Huainanzi, Liexian zhuan, Baopuzi, etc. Any ideas? Keahapana 23:32, 28 December 2006 (UTC)
You read my mind. I was getting ready to suggest moving the photo up. Good work. ( Ghostexorcist 00:26, 29 December 2006 (UTC))
I'm of the opinion that Seen (daoist immortals) be redirected and merged into this article - from what I can tell, these uses of Xian and Seen are different transliterations of the same concept. Further, the Xian page is older, has had more contributors and is better referenced. WLU 11:39, 13 July 2007 (UTC)
As I have commented for the page on "Sexual practices in Orthodox Taoism," whoever is writing these articles have a very slanted view of Taoism. While some sects historically have discouraged sexual alchemy, sexual alchemy is without a doubt a core part of Taoism. I quote from 道教通論:
Ever since Wei Boyang used hidden words to record the secret techniques of 同類陰陽, "密示青州徐從事,徐乃隱名而注之"...we know that 徐從事's 參同契 is based on 陰陽. Here 陰陽 refers to the 合陰陽 of Mawangdui, which means 男女合炁之朮. Cantongqi says "Things without yinyang betray heaven and origin; female cow and hen which give eggs themselves, their offsprings are incomplete." This means that sexual alchemy which incorporates 陰陽丹法 accords with the principles of nature...
The quotes go on and on, but I'll leave you with that.
Look. I like that fact that someone is finally representing Taoism on Wikipedia. But I fear that this person is overzealous and sectarian, teaching others without first teaching himself. Sexual alchemy precedes 清修 historically. To claim that sexual alchemy is not part of Taoism is to be ignorant of alchemical history.
Maybe your 師傅 teaches you not to engage in sexual alchemy. I respect that. But to claim that sexual alchemy is not Taoism is like saying sexual practices is not part of Tantra. It just ain't true.
By the way, 房中朮 is different from 同類陰陽. One is a sexual practice, also based on early Taoism, designed to enhance health. The latter is the highest form of alchemy, which involves exchanging the middle of Li/Kan for Qian/Qun. I think you got these confused. But both are part of Taoism.
Another thing - it seems that the writer of this article likes to repeat "Orthodox Taoism." You should know that there are many Taoist sects. Perhaps you should check with other Taoist sects before you write polemic articles.
Vaibhasika 09:48, 6 August 2007 (UTC)
I refer to the other article "Seen," or something like that, which is about to merged into this article. The same polemic author also modified the page on "Sexual practices in Orthodox Taoism." Vaibhasika 10:06, 6 August 2007 (UTC)
Forgive my fussiness: the character for xian was 屳, not 仚, which is given the fanqie spelling 許堅切 by Xu Xuan 徐鉉 in his edition of Shuowen. So 仚 originally represented another word (*hin), not *sin. Now 仚 and 屳 have merged, representing only the word xian. Still, I doubt whether Schipper's fanciful analysis should be kept. Regards.-- K.C. Tang 07:22, 3 December 2007 (UTC)
Is this Xian called Sendou in Japanese? I apologize that I could not find the kanji. I'm basing this question on an English translation of Sengoku Youko which says they are equivalent. However, my Japanese is poor and my Chinese is non-existent, so since I haven't been able to find an answer in English, I'm unable to add anything to the article but this question. Thanks! -- Geekdiva ( talk) 14:00, 22 February 2010 (UTC)
Moved editorial comment transclusion from main article space to Talk page for editors' further consideration:
![]() | This article has multiple issues. Please help
improve it or discuss these issues on the
talk page. (
Learn how and when to remove these template messages)
|
Dcattell ( talk) 02:10, 21 May 2020 (UTC)